anyone know any good setups?
only got +4str/-4con atm...
think ill add +1str/-1con more...
and maybe +4dex/-4con
(that would be same setup I have on my BD)
BUT, BDs use heavy, TH ligth..I feel like Im made of paper already with -4 con >.< ...maybe just wait untill higher lvl? (46 atm)
and no, im not all for pvp..sure, I wanna be able to kill trainers and KSers and people who I dont like :)
anyone know any good setups?
only got +4str/-4con atm...
think ill add +1str/-1con more...
and maybe +4dex/-4con
(that would be same setup I have on my BD)
BUT, BDs use heavy, TH ligth..I feel like Im made of paper already with -4 con >.< ...maybe just wait untill higher lvl? (46 atm)
and no, im not all for pvp..sure, I wanna be able to kill trainers and KSers and people who I dont like :)
The greatest difference between a TH and a HE is melee vs. ranged right? (Rhetorical question).
But you want to do damage right, and preferably big crits right?
+ STR and + DEX are your friends, if you don't feel like losing more of your hp, then go for Plated Leather and wait some lvls...like till 52 something.
I went +5 STR +4 DEX on my HE at lvl40, and she took quite the hit in her hp,cp and hp regen...but now she lvled up and the penalty is almost nihil.
yea, already using plated leather..and +4 str..I guess Ill wait a bit more untill I get more tatoos.. dun want my hp to drop to low...
anyways, is +4dex realy worth it?
I wouldn't gimp my CON on my lvl 6x TH alt. I went for -str/+dex instead. And when i get the AA for it i will go for -str/+con. The first tat took away only 32 Patk, that is not a really big loss, because daggers don't have much Patk you don't loose much. But as a TH you do have a lot of Con and you will loose a lot of HP/CP/Pdef. Going +dex will make you get +Evasion, +Run Speed, +Critical, +Accuracy, +Atk Speed. They will not be boosted by 32(my Patk loss) it will be all small numbers but you will get boosted better when you get buffed. Besides for PVP, +dex makes your Special Blows land more often and this is where your dagger user strenght is anyways.
The +Con Tat that i will get next will get me, +HP, +CP, +HP Regen rate, +Pdef this is all also very nice for PVP, which MY dagger is being made for. And with the PVP balance it is also a great dagger for use in PVE. with VR i can even Tank because of my high Con and uber crit rate i can keep mobs attention at me and not loose HP insanely fast.
Hope you think about these instead of the -Con gimp, since that is really what you shouldn't do. But in the End it's up to you. GL
The problem with the pvp setup is that it'll take longer to level and you will really feel it when you're exping 70+
I think you should do the pve setup until you reach 75 and then change your tats if you think you will pvp a lot
you dont need extra dex for TH in pve (you have the best passives, no need to gimp your con to squeeze a lil more)
+4 or +5str is plenty.
-9str +5dex +4con for pvp once you have 77 or 78.
I got my dye in 60s, prolly you can opt for +4str even now.
Morealso TH makes nice tank along w/ VR and evasion buff on green mobs, can hold aggro w/o any issues and can switch mobs as well.
ok ty guys..
I guess ill get another +4 str (so I have +5 str) and wait untill lvl52 with the last +1 str
one more question..I guess ill have to trade plated leather for something else at B? I just cant se how I will be able to solo catacombs in plated leather at that level :/ branded is no prob atm, but...
As long as you have VR3+, haste, focus/dw you can solo in 70s(!) in PL (which I did myself). PL is a very decent armor (+++ PL is the best PvE armor ever, not stun or antidots/para resist like A grade). It's not good armor for places like ketra orcs since you will have aggro and little defense (plus no evasion on reds). I'd not recommend doom or any B set unless you cant withstand dragging the aggro (dark red mobs again) in groups. If you can lay hands on DC - a very decent armor w/ good pdef. If not wear doom in groups for some more pdef and accuracy/evasion and less dmg.
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Note TH w/o buffs is quite bad toon to play - catacombs w/o good buffs is no-no and overall not a good area to level imo unless you need the AA. Past mid 50s TH cant solo at reasonable price. (Non-spot spamming GHP is not wise, even if you get focus3 in buff stick).
I have full SE and and full PP buffs so its not a problem.
with AA prices of 4 each and blanks 3000+ and bones 1000, I make a huge profit soloing cats, both with my TH and my BD at 60+
I didnt really read the above posts, but heres my two cents
I have a 7x TH and this is a setup that works well:
As a dagger you dont need to have +++ STR, despite what was said. What you need, is dex which makes your skills land more, evasion, speed, attack speed, crits ect. I use +3 Dex - 3 STR, and +2 Dex -2 Con. You really dont need high STR like other classes, because your crits make up for it. From what I saw, your thinking of getting +5 STR... may I ask what your going to ---- in order to do so? You do not want to drop your DEX whatever you do, and as for CON, you have to be careful. Your a human, and have the best CON of any dagger. Since you are not as fast as a LE or DE you have to use CON to your advantage. You can take more hits and its harder for people to stun you, so dont take away this stat to much. Since Im dirt poor, and cant afford A grade, I still use Doom Light. The +3 DEX bonus on the armor +5 DEx with the tats works very well. You do alot of damage, despite the fact you do not have alot of STR, and are quite formable.
Just my two cents
well, sure, critts are nice and all that, but i would never lower my str for PvE, at least not if im soloing, witch I am. I rather make huge critts and "hard" normal hits, then rely on critts only. for PvP it may be something else, but Ill bother with that later. I have a lot of con, yes, and I dont need a lot of it for PvE..so thats why im willing to spend some of it. con doesent help me kill faster :/
you will get 15crit rate on the on top of your 300ish?
for 5dex? you know what 5str does?
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too bad to see grooming a TH that far and no clue about.
DEX is useless PvE wise for a TH.
Trust me... wait until you hit your higher levels... daggers do not need ++++STR. DEX adds much more then crit rate by the way, and thats y one catagory (crit rate) does not match something like your P attack with STR ( the single attribute that is risen).
Also look at this... a dagger has lower p attack then any other melee wep of equivilence. The reason behind this, is daggers are not supposed to do high damage with a single regular hit. A dagger is supposed to do alot of damage quickly because they attack very fast and have several hard hitting crits. Increasing your STR is almost going a little backwards, expecially if you are lowering your DEX to do so. Just a little advice... does not mean you have to take it.
Stan... Im not going to take offense to your rather uncalled for remark, despite the fact its not exactly true. This is something that happens to work for me regards of what you guys think, and I was just offering some information to someone who asked for it.
I'd advise you to check stats, or at least look at some formulae, difference between 30 and 35 dex is 4.5% increase of critical rate that doesnt include flat bonus of kris or dark screamer or bloody orchid. (1.1 vs 1.15 dex bonus). W/ full buffs you can reach crit rate cap w/o touching DEX at all.
difference between 40 and 45 str is around 19.1% increase of p.attck. This increase is applied on criticals as well.
PvE you never lower DEX for increase of STR, you lower CON which you dont need in any way, esp on a high CON human.
+DEX/-STR sound very stupid to me...
and STR are good for any melee classes..
and yes, DEX adds almost nothing...got +4 DEX on my BD, and im almost thinking on removing it again (I would do if I needed the 4 CON i lost for it. but with vr con isent needed :)
anyway... I think you are talking about PVP maybe...I dont realy se why I would like to lower my str even then, but ok... but in PvE that gotta be the most stupid thing ever?
if you say its all about make your specials land..ok...nice..after you 10 specials, you have killed 3 mobs (in cata) and you are out of mana....what now? sit and rest mana back? or hit the mobs with -5 str? doing 100 dmg / hit? >.<
and yea, I forgot..as faar I know specials dont return HP (with VR) or am I wrong? so doing little damage, and only rely on specials means you gonna die in PvE even if you got vr4...
You have valid points.
Specials dont return anything through VR. And specials are generally not relyable source of damage PvE.
But I didnt talk about PvP (-str is the way to go for PvP on a TH, since all the damage comes from specials and str has a very minor effect on them).
TH w/ basic dex (30) has the attack speed of a toon w/ 41 DEX due to passive 'boost attack speed'. Even if you get 4% additional chance to land specials through DEX I believe that's completely useless PvE wise (morealso you can stand behind to open w/ a special, or in a group you should stay behind).
Dont gimp str PvE wise no matter what.
+DEX/-STR sound very stupid to me...
and STR are good for any melee classes..
and yes, DEX adds almost nothing...got +4 DEX on my BD, and im almost thinking on removing it again (I would do if I needed the 4 CON i lost for it. but with vr con isent needed :)
anyway... I think you are talking about PVP maybe...I dont realy se why I would like to lower my str even then, but ok... but in PvE that gotta be the most stupid thing ever?
if you say its all about make your specials land..ok...nice..after you 10 specials, you have killed 3 mobs (in cata) and you are out of mana....what now? sit and rest mana back? or hit the mobs with -5 str? doing 100 dmg / hit? >.<
and yea, I forgot..as faar I know specials dont return HP (with VR) or am I wrong? so doing little damage, and only rely on specials means you gonna die in PvE even if you got vr4...
Well for A grade armor, I went with tillum light rather then the other amor set cause it didn't change any of my TH stats. and uped MP and MP regen rate which for any TH useing VS alot or skills is importent.
As for the -STR in PvE, very bad! (let me explain)
As a HE, siting at lvl 48 (I know we lose dagger passives at 36, but can still use a dagger for a while past) I have +2 dex - 2 con, and when I hit 49 I'm have +4 STR.
I have a 72 SE, with VR-4, I'm regening and tanking 2 to 3 mobs on me, but if I lower my P atk, or dex I'll have lowed the VR effect cause I'm not dealing the dmged needed to regen my HP. CRTs give back almost double the VR effect, and with out it, you will feel pain when you got 3+ mobs on you. And specails don't return any HP at all.
I'd if I where you talk to the Hero's on your server and ask what they did, I do!
And for weapon, Focus is > crt dmg SA for TH, TH crts alot. TH lower Dex compared to the other races causes for lower crt's. (trust me as a HE I crt sometimes like 9 times in a row, then 1 normal hit then 3-6 more crts) I'm useing a +5 DS W/focus.
about wep, i tested a critt damage wep for Cgrade..+12 crystal..works well, im hitting very hard, even normal hits are very hard (picked the crystal cus it has a lot more base p.attack then DS) but ill prolly get a kris for Bgrade..nut sure what is best tho :/
I was wondering, how much Patk does +5 Strenght add in total ? I myself didn't touch my Con but my Str to Boost my Dex and Con, -8 +8 is what i did, it decreased my Patk by about 65 give or take a few, but increased my PDef and total HP making me able to Solo much better then the daggers i see who gimped their Con, their Con drops very fast very hard, giving people downtime while i hunt my next mob.
Just curious how much Patk does the +5 Add up to ?
+5str is like +25% p.attack or close at least.
your setup, as people mentioned earlier in this tread, is meant for PvP. you wouldent want to lower your str for PvE.
less str makes you gain less HP from VR (no mather how often or how hard your specials are, they dont return hp from vr)
and why would you like HP for PvE? I never needed it at least. vr makes up for it.
25% on +5 is more then my -8 loss, since my -8 loss was around 20ish %. That's a nice boost indeed, if it's correct.
Don't forget 40 is your base stat, so -4 equals 10%. +5 would be like 12.5% but maybe when you + it doubles the raised % ??? Anyways i was more looking for actual Patk boost in numbers not %.
Just want to figure out what +5 str actually does for a dagger user ? Since my Patk isn't gimped at all after -8, but my Pdef and HP are really nicely boosted. Making me stronger in any situation, that's PVE and PVP. To think -8 Str is a PVP Set up for a dagger user is a mistake, Solo, partying, pve everything goes very smooth.
I don't spam skills, Bleed4 roxx, and VR keeps my HP full, and i mean full not like -Con users who will! go down in HP very fast when 2 mobs gank them, my HP doesn't drop as hard as -con users. I seen that myself. To Think you don't need Con/HP, i really don't get that, even for PVE you will need HP.
Anyways, anyone has a real Patk number increase that backs up 25%. I would really like to know this.
Might not seem too technical after all that was discussed. But Im using Doom Light+Kris w focus& +4 str -4con. Just enough strength for crits and regular swings for soloing...and not TOO negative on the con when it comes to pvp.
Those doubts unfortunately don't come from experience.
I did -Con when i was learning about the dagger class, before i took those tats off and went for -Str, after which i'm never thinking of going -Con again. I have an exellent crit rate, with VR i tank any room in Catacombs and don't need to spam pots when soloing, VR keeps my HP up from my damage and crits, you overrate str on a dagger user. 12.5% from +5 str. is worth nothing, with -8 Str your HP keeps full just as easy. Ofcourse you need Haste2 for VR to keep your HP full, but i'm guessing that's also needed with -Con. Besides that my Pdef(Con) and HP(Con) are so nicely Boosted that i can hunt without downtime. Which i know for 100% never happened with -Con tats Solo-ing.
Con has nothing to do with Pdef, I have gone as much as -5 con on my TH and seen no changes to his Pdef. I have gone as far as +8 con on my WS and seen no change in Pdef.
Con effects whether or not you get stunned, resistance to poison, and HP.
Haha, I love how people who are "founding their posts on experience" come out with a blatant lie all-too-frequently.
There is no stat that influences PDef - the only stat that will actually decrease your damage taken over time is DEX, and that is minimal in the shape of shield blocks and evades.
CON governs carry capacity (mages with -CON are funny), HP, CP, HP regeneration, and the resistance to some status effects, as Duroon explained.
OMGooses, Uber NOOBS :D
Base Pdef is most definately based on Con, very bad you never learned this and come here laughing at something you don't even know.
If you state as if a fact that you gimped Con and didn't see you Pdef drop, you never gimped your Con.
If you Gimp Con your Pdef drops for sure. This is 100% fact.
Never played those classes and am not going to. Cannot answer thus.
Lies? You just don't know and don't want to, obviously.
But that's all cool, you shouldn't know. It's better ;)
What are you on, really? Its been 2 years, and everyone knows CON doesnt affect P.def, I can go try tomorrow, taking off a +4 CON and putting it back on again and tell you if theres a diff...
Never played those classes and am not going to. Cannot answer thus.
Lies? You just don't know and don't want to, obviously.
But that's all cool, you shouldn't know. It's better ;)
What are you on, really? Its been 2 years, and everyone knows CON doesnt affect P.def, I can go try tomorrow, taking off a +4 CON and putting it back on again and tell you if theres a diff...
You should, if you been around for over 2 years it's about time you knew this!
Base Pdef is Con Based.
Gimping Con will be noticable different on different classes, a Dwarf will really notice it, a human will also, DE's are less gimped when they use -Con, also Mage Classes don't really benefit from +Con, it's very little what they gain almost unoticable.
I done + and - Con several times on different toons, my dwarf got the biggest fall back, about 50 Pdef i lost. But also the most Con was gimped.
Actually i shouldn't have told you Noobs about this, you didn't know about Pdef being Con based at all and was Lolling at your own ignorance actually. Don't take my words for it, remove and put it back, i learned it the same way.
Never played those classes and am not going to. Cannot answer thus.
Lies? You just don't know and don't want to, obviously.
But that's all cool, you shouldn't know. It's better ;)
What are you on, really? Its been 2 years, and everyone knows CON doesnt affect P.def, I can go try tomorrow, taking off a +4 CON and putting it back on again and tell you if theres a diff...
You should, if you been around for over 2 years it's about time you knew this!
Base Pdef is Con Based.
Gimping Con will be noticable different on different classes, a Dwarf will really notice it, a human will also, DE's are less gimped when they use -Con, also Mage Classes don't really benefit from +Con, it's very little what they gain almost unoticable.
I done + and - Con several times on different toons, my dwarf got the biggest fall back, about 50 Pdef i lost. But also the most Con was gimped.
Actually i shouldn't have told you Noobs about this, you didn't know about Pdef being Con based at all and was Lolling at your own ignorance actually. Don't take my words for it, remove and put it back, i learned it the same way.
LOL, men this is a free forum dont talk to anyone he is an Noob.
I thinck you are the Noob.
None of the base stats affect pdef. Pdef is simply the protection offered by the armor/shield (and of course the buffs affecting that pdef). "Being able to take more damage", that is CON->HP, and "getting out of the way of an attack", that is DEX->Evasion.
Dex also has a (in my experience unpalpable) effect on shield block rate. But yeah... CON doesn't make you take less damage, unless you count being stunned and having something beat on you longer.
Zerg up all you want, Base Pdef is Con Based. You still have Pdef when you take off all your gear.
It's all cool that you all don't know.
Was my fault sharing some info with people that talk more on forums then actually play.
LOL at yourself for never knowing this :p
Your "naked" PDef has nothing to do with your CON - just make a few newbie characters on a server you don't play - different races, but all either fighters or mages.
Compare their CON, compare their PDef with starter gear or without it - and you'll find that in all configurations, at the same level with the same gear, type (fighter/mystic), masteries and buffs, a character will, regardless of CON, have the same PDef.
As i am actually proven wrong with this sc, i see that this is a lowbie mage class you gimped Con from, and as i stated before on mage classes you almost don't notice a difference. Prolly the lower the less difference, my mage was in her 50s when i got +con and only gained like around 10 Pdef, very dissapointing.
But in the end, your sc will be your proof and i never screenshotted my Tats on and off, so can't argue with that sc.
I rest my case, and when someone finds out that Con will influence Pdef on 1 of the classes i mentioned before, don't look surprised.
Trying to act like you're still right after that is just silly, but somewhere down the line, I'll let you know the effects of getting +12 CON in one go - should be an impressive boost.
[censored] hell
dont know why you are continueing with your statement that pdef is effected by con
i can say for a fact that it isnt since when i first went -con on my dwarf i was worried about the ammount of pdef i would lose
guess what, -4 con zero change