In their forum rules there is point 6 - piracy will not be tolerated on their forum
During reading the l2 thread most what i found was "not offical servers adress and names".
I asked moderators is it ok not to react for breaking the rule.
The answer was - There is no breaking of any rule. NCSoft made Lineage 2 Chronicle 1 server files as an open source software so there is no piracy isue in their thread and all of those private serwers names and adresses are ok.
My question is - Is it true Lineage 2 Chronicle 1 was Open Source? And is it legal to promote private - not official serwers on official gaming forums?
And id like to link this thread to their forum so please answer me to those questions.
That might be a bit confusing. Just to say it again. It is not open source. But the files they are claiming to be open source are the ones he's refering to.
There's nothing in the current private servers that violates any law. There is no piracy involved here. (if there was, the sites would have long been shut down)
Much like emulator software doesn't violate the law, only if you pirate the software to run on it are you violating the law.
That being said, I am not sure why on earth you brought it up here.
I think he's confusing himself. The only thing thats probably open source is the server software (which isn't made by NCSoft), Lineage 2 isn't open source, but they are two vastle different things.
There's nothing in the current private servers that violates any law. There is no piracy involved here. (if there was, the sites would have long been shut down)
Using the official client software with anything else than the official servers is against the license agreement (which you agree to when downloading it - and no, the "I downloaded it from xxx, not the official site" does not count, because the software initially came from the official servers, so somebody agreed to it, and distributing the client software is illegal anyway). So even if the servers are all "handmade" and do not use any official code, simply USING them with the official client is illegal. Problem is just how NCSoft can get hold of the players.
Oh, and btw if you download the client software, you automatically agree to this:
"You further agree not to create or provide any other means through which Lineage II may be played by others, as through server emulators."
So if you have the client software, you are not allowed to create or run a server emulator.
I mean, come on - it really should be obvious just via common sense that taking the software somebody else created for a pay-to-play service and then running a free server emulator for it cannot really be legal, or?
Using the official client software with anything else than the official servers is against the license agreement (which you agree to when downloading it
Yes, it is. But that neither makes it illegal, nor does it change the legal status of server software itself.
So, at best what they can do is ban you from the game if they somehow find out you're on a non-official server.
simply USING them with the official client is illegal.
No, you're mixing real life illegal with "game illegal", they are two different things. Its against the TOS to do many things in the game, but that doesn't mean they can take you to court over it, they'd be laughed at.
So if you have the client software, you are not allowed to create or run a server emulator.
As per the "Terms of Service", which means NCSoft can legally deny you service if you do not comply. Its like if a restaurant has a dress code that you can't wear shorts, if you chose to wear shorts anyway, the best they can do is deny you service and access to their facilities, you won't see a lawsuit.
So in short, the software itself isn't illegal at all, using it isn't illegal, using it is against the game and company rules and they can deny you service over it.
They can't. So in that case there's nothing they can do. They can't even try and deny you the use of their client, since that would go against the fair use laws of some countries. They could in theory ban you from downloading the client, but thats pretty ineffectual, heck some countries even allow the distributing of the client (since its offered for free) as long as its for non-commercial use.
If it really was so easy, these things would have been gone a long time ago.
There are 2 distinct issues: server-side and client-side.
Server side:
There are two server projects.
One is based on a stolen C1 beta code and is being modified by hackers to somehow resemble newer chronicles, this project clearly violates NCsoft's copyrights.
The second one is based on an open-source engine that uses Lineage 2 client-server protocols, the game mechanics that resemble Lineage 2, and the database with NPCs, skills, terrain info and so on that resemble Lineage 2, too. The legal status of this software is unclear, but you cannot just say "it is opensource so it is legal".
Client side:
You as a player can physically use either NCsoft Lineage 2 Client Software or some botting software to play on these servers. Using NCsoft Client software for playing on these servers clearly violates NCsoft copyrights. Using botting software (without payments to its creators) both violates the botting software writers' copyrights and generally is not tolerable by admins of such servers.
Actually I was having a long chat about that topic with Ash and then later with Mistryl again...
The software required to run a server for Lineage2 was never released nor licensed for anyone other than the official servers.
Reprogramming the software with Java (as most Freeshards are) and relying on the game concepts and databases of the original Lineage2 (even if modified to some extend or not) is a breach of the "intellectual property" law, or however that is called in english.
When you create a game, not only the exact code is copyrighted, but also the ideas, the concepts to a specific deapth of detail.
Why would Starwars or LotRO or Star Trek need to License the game world, if it would be free to be copied ?
The world of Aden is NCsofts creation and it is their property. Reusing that without permission can very well be called an act of piracy.
The reason, why those servers are not immediately closed down, is likely, that many of them are operating out of NA-European legal territory and the law enforcement in "out of area" countries is far worse, than in the own country. Also a lawsuit is automatically taking years and you have to be 100% sure, that you will sue them successfully. During all that time, you are paying money to lawyers, which you will likely never see again, as in the end, you won a lawsuit against a private person, who is broke, and cannot pay you any remedy.
That is (what I think), why there are no lawsuits against freeshards.
That does however not make them legal and 100% sure, it does not make them morally legal.
Everyone who ever created anything, would likely not want it copied and distributed without due credit... and NCsoft does rightfully demand payment as credit for their work.
1st one violates their IP, as it can be argued in a court of law to be a reverse engineered project. But its rather sketchy depending on where it was developed and what kind of code they're actually using now.
2nd one isn't illegal, to emulate a service isn't illegal at all. Its perfectly legal for me to make a McLordChaos restaurant and make burgers that look and taste like McDonalds burgers, as long as I am not using any of their ingrediences they have exclusive rights over, but I can make a new ingredience that tastes exactly the same.
Client:
No, it violates their Terms of Service, biiiiiig difference. Copyright has nothing to do with to which service you use the software on, Nike can't tell me that I can't go into McDonalds restaurants wearing their shoes.
Again, if it was really so simply, don't you think an NCSoft team would have long used google and served these sites a warning to shut down?
But if you make a restuarant can call it McDonalds, use the same wrappings, same decorations, etc. In the US, that's a violation. And that's what these servers do.
The second one is based on an open-source engine that uses Lineage 2 client-server protocols, the game mechanics that resemble Lineage 2, and the database with NPCs, skills, terrain info and so on that resemble Lineage 2, too. The legal status of this software is unclear, but you cannot just say "it is opensource so it is legal".
Reverse enginering is iligal in the US, so the software is iligal, quite easy to state that.
As the only way for them othervise to write it legaly is to try and just randomly write code and see if the game works, you think they done that? oh no.
Reprogramming the software with Java (as most Freeshards are) and relying on the game concepts and databases of the original Lineage2 (even if modified to some extend or not) is a breach of the "intellectual property" law, or however that is called in english.
Only if they call it Lineage II servers, which they don't and if they're doing it for commercial use. Emulating something isn't illegal, using trademarks and copyrighted material is.
Heck, if copying game data and concepts was illegal we'd have to shut most fansites of computer games down.
Why would Starwars or LotRO or Star Trek need to License the game world, if it would be free to be copied ?
It can be, I just can't use their names.
I can freely make Star Wreck, with different names...oh wait someone already did.
It protects them from someone going out and just using the brand names for commercial gains.
is likely, that many of them are operating out of NA-European legal territory
A quick search yielded that apart from a few russian ones, all the big ones are located in NA or Europe.
But if you make a restuarant can call it McDonalds, use the same wrappings, same decorations, etc. In the US, that's a violation. And that's what these servers do.
Thats exactly what the servers don't do. None of that.
That being the important words of your sentence. Also, its the client thats really the "wrappings, burgers, etc.", the server is simply the service, the business concept, etc. and thats well and legal to emulate.
there was some movie where their hamburgers and building looked exactly like McDonalds but it was named slightly different....
Anyway you can still get sued if your business endevour is almost exactly like an existing one...
Also, you have to keep in mind their is a difference in parody and actually ripping off an idea.
You can make a "movie" or game that is a parody of Lineage II. That is, it makes fun of it or is a joke in some way. There have been lawsuits over stuff like this but it is a slippery slope when the maker says "hey.. just a joke".
However, you cannot (at least in the U.S.) Make a product that capitalizes on material created by someone else and just slap another name on it and make money off it as the same type of business.
So... it is illegal to create these private servers and use them for financial gain.
It is intellectual property. Just like you can't take the music I write and without permission use it in a project of your own just because you change the name of the piece.
I can't answer as to why these private servers aren't shut down. It might be becuase NC doens't care. At least to the point where they know that many of them are going to be run poorly, crash a lot, have server wipes, bad customer service etc. Then players who really do want to have a good experience might come to the conclusion that they have to come to the official servers for that.
so remember all... parody is ok... ripping off intellectual property is not.
Not quite sure why its being debated here, its going to be locked soon anyway. Can't get anything from NCSoft either, since any comment on the subject can only be made in 1 of 2 ways, regardless of how reality is.
Server:
1st one violates their IP, as it can be argued in a court of law to be a reverse engineered project. But its rather sketchy depending on where it was developed and what kind of code they're actually using now.
In some countries reverse engineering can be legal. But the NCsoft IP rights violations for this one have nothing to do with "reverse engineering". These guys use NCsoft's own code (I mean, code legally owned by NCsoft) without NCsoft permission. The "reverse engineering" case is the next one.
2nd one isn't illegal, to emulate a service isn't illegal at all. Its perfectly legal for me to make a McLordChaos restaurant and make burgers that look and taste like McDonalds burgers, as long as I am not using any of their ingrediences they have exclusive rights over, but I can make a new ingredience that tastes exactly the same.
Frankly, I don't know how unique McDonalds burgers are, but I am pretty sure that if you put McDonalds sign (or even a sign that is close to McDonalds' one) in front of your restaurant, you will get sued as fast as McDonalds' lawyers can see it.
Client:
No, it violates their Terms of Service, biiiiiig difference. Copyright has nothing to do with to which service you use the software on, Nike can't tell me that I can't go into McDonalds restaurants wearing their shoes.
These shoes aren't their, they are yours. They had sold it to you. You own (you are the legal owner of) them.
Compare that with the car what you have rented... or even got for a test-drive for free. Do you think you can go whereever you want just because the owner of the car gave you the keys?
Again, if it was really so simply, don't you think an NCSoft team would have long used google and served these sites a warning to shut down?