Your buffs are uneffected by m. attack while your curses will have a higher chance of landing with a higher m. attack. I rarely play any of my mage characters so I'm not sure just how much of an effect it has.
Warcryers and Overlords actually want to focus on M. Atak. Lots of people do go casting speed however but thats just because they cant stand Orc Casting Speed. Think of yourself as an SH if your an OL and a Dark Avenger if you're a Warcryer
It's tricky with the OL. They're gonna want more m.atk for the seals, and more casting speed for cp heals. But this isn't about OLs... I just wanted to comment on that :)
Both could use more of both, but you gotta choose one in this game :(
By the time you reach A-grade, you will know what to choose.
If you have reached A-grade and are asking us.... well you would know better than most of us :p
It depends on you, I play an sps because I'm impatient. Although my m.attack isn't high, I love fast kills.
If you don't mind being slow, go nightmare, but the -2 wit will hurt your casting speed a lot.
If it were me, I would go casting speed, casting speed, casting speed :eek:
That is funny, I see a lot more WCs that OLs all the time. I also see them all played differently, so there is no "wrong" way to set one up. I would say just be consistant and figure out which job you want in a group. That is where I would invest the bulk of my adena and efforts towards.
I believe the two WC in our clan each are different. One generally has robes and a mana up staff, the other is in Heavy with a health blunt.
That is funny, I see a lot more WCs that OLs all the time. I also see them all played differently, so there is no "wrong" way to set one up. I would say just be consistant and figure out which job you want in a group. That is where I would invest the bulk of my adena and efforts towards.
QFT!
At the moment I got BW heavy and robe and jedai greatsword+focus. Mostly wear heavy since it works both for solo and party (my partyes always have other crowdcontrollers and healers, so i dont realy need the cast speed). I wear robes for pole partyes and when there is a small group in place which needs crowdcontrolling, duo in GC for example. I'm also starting to stack mats for C5 A 1handed blunt+acumen.. Since then i will be more pvp oriented and in pvp mage>mele most of the time.
Warcryers and Overlords actually want to focus on M. Atak. Lots of people do go casting speed however but thats just because they cant stand Orc Casting Speed. Think of yourself as an SH if your an OL and a Dark Avenger if you're a Warcryer
lol dont listen to this guy i guarntee hes never played one.
your not gonna hunt with your mage skiills ur gonna hunt with by meleeing with soul cry. I suggest going to [censored] under class and skills or whatever they are many good ol/wc threads
actually every post in this thread is equally ******ed...most decent ol/wc are tried of answering these threads...i suggest you do research instead of asking because the people that respond here know next to nothing about the class.
ill post the most helpful ol/wc thread from [censored] here under this post, if that doesnt help you, nothing will.
ugh i disagree with every leveling stragedy posted here. there are so many threads on leveling orc mages, find them and stop making new ones
basically wc can play the role of a prophet and get parties easy
Ol doesnt get parties unless hes filling a gimp dd spot, 2ndary buffer/healer spot, or hes doing just crowd control in which all u do is sleep ocassionaly root/slow.
if your gonna solo the the wc/ol classes or duo or even trio them..you can gear and lvl them the same way.
you can use the b-grade setup all the way to 75, i know many high lvl ol that never really left bluewolf till 75.
at 61+ i perfer using tallum or bluewolf, because of the pvp factor. 8% m.def ontop of a high m.def already makes mages not a huge threat in pvp. Yes they can and will kill you, but they will change targets most of the time or you move out of there range b4 they kill you...normally my aoe alliance cp heals can keep me healed during mass pvp tilll im out of mp. I barely even watch my own health bar im to busy watching everyone elses.
I personally use tallum + 0 and +8 focus kris (you dont need overenchated but its nice)...if you can afford get a bloody orchid + focus and perhaps dc set isnt bad, i just dont think its worth the money unless ur rich. Only reaason i consider swtching from tallum to dc on my ol is i sub a mage that needs the dc. Its just not that necessary.
76+ i recently recieved a arcana set im toying with.....but again thats not really necessary at all...im just thinking at 78 with arcane power and an m.attack build maybe i can actually have some fun with my char debuffing instead of healing.
Anyone that tells you to lvl with drain is a moron. If you want the most efficient xp you wear robes or light armor (depends if your using any your mana on self buff or you have boxed buffers)....use use dagger with focus and you use your mana on soulcry toggling it on and off between each mob. If you have to drain even once your mana isnt being used efficently.
And all your aoe skills are useless....except slow, root, suspesnion (maybe in c5 silence will land). In pve unless your in a mage aoe group....ur not gonna use your aoes ever.
at 70+ you get best xp soloing half hp mobs or duoing in woa or somewhere that doesnt stun to much with 2-3x hp mobs.
For pvp you wanna use bw or tallum or dc or maj...really perference. I perfer tallum because mages are the only threat to me dieing. I havent toyed personally with majestic regen...but i hear its nice..plus its roughly 800 more mp to start out with (nice). DC only reason i see to switch to dc is you really really care about the + 7 speed.
my set up is and has been
club of nature +11, nightmare shield, tallum robes
I personally went +4 wit +4 con + 4 dex(for the speed and pve aspect)
until i hit 78 in which ill go +4 con +5 wit and arcane set with arcana mace
btw anyone that tells u to ever go + strength doesnt know anything about orc mages
you get your strength from soulcry which is a base increase not a %. even with no weapon its still the same flat 15x increase in p.attack. That much p.attack increase on a dagger which only has 180 p.attack is huge. In pve i hit mellee just as hard as daggers...im basically a dagger thats gimp because he doesnt have his skills to spam.
the only reason you ever use a 2 handed mage blunt or even think about it is if your a hero and your getting the Infinity Scepter because that is just a sick SA on it and it negates the downfall of not having a shield MAYBE. Im not even sold on it.
you only consider this after you 78 with full arcana robes and skills maxed.
but the sa of the Infinity Scepter is...When casting good magic, it can recover HP by 100% at a certain rate, increases MAX MP, MaxCP, M. Atk., lower MP Consumption, increases the Magic Critical rate, and reduce the Magic Cancel. Enhances damage to target during PvP.
dont say there no point...cuz thats just ignorant. You can solo to 75 its just gonna be slower then any other class. Yes groups are much nicer..but when it comes down to it your a secondary buffer/healer or gimp dd or crowd controller. really the only chance u have to being useful is if you get the CC function in a high lvl group...or you have enough dd that yours will be insignifficant. If you party with archers u will never reach the mob b4 u hit it...if you party with melee u will be fine.
You can solo or duo fine...its just you have to do it in a specificed way.
Crit dagger> crit duels> crit blunt > health blunt
If you were light armor you will have more p.def, faster mp regen, and better melee stats....but then you better not be buffing anything in the party. If your expected to use a portion of your mana for buffing/healing/cc you just stick with robes.
Btw this is all for pve not for pvp, i already posted the pvp setup.
Anyone that pvps with there ol...you should never be draining after you hit 66. When it comes down to mass pvp...basically your one big cp battery. U dont even need to drain if your getting hit, you should never really be in the very front of a 900 range mass pvp battle you should be somewhere in the middle. If you get hit you take a step back. If you arent getting hit but your low mp, i like to step up and take some hits...alot of noob archers/mages try and kil me...once my cp is gone i step back and alliance heal. I only do this because i can take hits better then anyone else and if im low on mana id rather them be hitting me the someone i have to spam single target cp heal on to keep them alive...again all preference in game play.
If an ol is played right...85% of your mana will go towards cp, 10% to hearts (maybe more in c5 with the partial instant heal feature). and perhaps one aoe sus*****on or slow if they charge at you.
Alot of people dont play there OL correctly because it just really isnt that fun to be a cp battery. Your basically playing the same role as a healer does but instead of watching hp you watch cp. It takes that mindset to maximize the use of an OL in mass pvp. Ive seen many ol run up into a group of people and spam 5-8 aoes in 10 seconds draining half there mana...debuffing people for 15 seconds....tell me how many of those people actually died for you to waste your mp bar? 1-2? 0?
I guess this is alot more fun...but i never said playing an ol was fun. If you like to spam drains and dotts in pvp i recommend you going wc...there only role is to buff and an ocasional chant of life...so there rest of there mp bar can be used for spamming drain or dots and nobody really cares. But if your ol is doing that is often extremely frowned upon in higher clans.
So all you people that play ol on private servers and think WTF PWNAGE CLASS...its really not...yes you are a beast and just about noobdy will kill you (until your out of mp, or your group is dead first, or both)...but remember this isnt the Official Server and there are no mp pots....so choose another class.
In c5 it only gets worse with drains being from 140ish mp to 177. It personally wont affect me as i dont even have drain on my pvp bar most of the time or at least on my main keys.
You are a lot higher level than my Overlord, but I'm going to respectfully disagree about the aoes. I use them on my OL to great effect. At the moment she's in borrowed Divine and Yaksa Mace. I duo with an SE with Empower 2 and use BSPS.
I use two main AoEs. In a group of mobs I use Seal of Winter and Seal of Flame. I then wade in and melee using SPS. I kill fast while the SE heals.
that might work for your specific example of mobs...but if you are relying on flame and posion to xp...this is by no means efficient xp...its like saying for a mage to rely on its dotts to xp....nobody does this cuz its horrible. But yes i have experiemented with it. For example at one lvl i duoed with an SH which was extremely dangerous for me. I used to do aoe flame/root on the mobs in ABG and then the SH would do one tempest. I used to pull 3 groups at once....this was so dangerious that its not worth it. It can be done...but by no means is it a universal way to xp. My guide is kinda the basics....u could try other strag...but overall focus dagger+ shield works best
Hehe,
And this is why you can setup an OL many, many ways. I do TOI, I do DN with good groups. They love my Winter DoT and my Silence lands 50/50 but for the mana cost, it is way down there. I only do two buffs and my Heart if I have to.
I have Majestic Robes, and a B axe w/ Health at +7. Since I don't have CP heal at the present, that is not an issue. At level or when others are lower, I can stand in PvP against all execpt Dagger Users. And I do hit my AoE's to debuff and everyone whines like a baby.
While your setup may be fine for 75+ and all, I went and I am working on a Total Speed setup. I have plenty of Mana and look forward to more Seiges, but to live for seiges is a very small part of the game. More often than not it is what happens after the seige that matters more, IMO....
Did the light armor during my C grade, it was nice, but I found my clan and most of my alliance want me in robes or heavy.
Also, to say no one here knows is a slap in the face to all who play one. Just because your tweeks make yours work for you, don't think that others are totally gimped out. That is why we have so many choices in this class.
if your clan wants you in heavy...they are just dumb. Dont let anyone tell you whats the best gear for your ol 99% of people in this game really have no idea.
Pre 66 ill agree with you, your gonna use your aoes alot more. After 66 you become one of two things...a cp battery or an unefficient OL. Im not just talking about sieges...im talking 9 vs 9s, 3 vs 3...hell even 2 vs 2s... However anything smaller then 9 vs 9 maybe even including 9 vs 9 you start to use drain, and seals more. My guide is geared toward 66+ ol that pvp in 9vs 9 or greater. Mana up is kinda pointless unless your acting as an alliance buffer...in which i would cary mana up and a [censored] acumen. Winter is just horrible...i mean its ok but it doesnt last long enough to use it on every pull /mob while xping.. and in mass pvp...it shouldnt even be on your bar. You said your group loves winter...sure they are probally like O.o that looks neat they are hitting slower...but your not necessary to xp with...its a luxury...and therefore not necessary. Silence can be necessary for example when your aoing in WOA the angels in the back or the angels on toi 10th. Takes 2 casts to silence them all but well worth it. Anyone that tells you to wear heavy is a moron and is just passing off gear they have in excess to you because they dont feel like dishing out the money for bw robes or better. You can hit 1700 p.def in robes why the hell would u wanna wear heavy and cast slower.
There are many ways to play/gear your ol and wc
However, with anything else, there the most efficient...thats where these posts are aimed at. You could argue u dont like the way an armor looks so you with Sage rag or something stupid...im not aiming my arguemnt at you...im aiming my argument at the most efficient use of a class...if anyone wants to challenge that...im intrested. I dont think there is a way to improve the char past the limits in which i have highlighted if anyone else can make a valid point...ill accept it but nobody has in 3 chronicles....By the way this is accumulative of testing from my self (mutiny), oda, narrak, akan, and verloren....the 5 highest Ol on Gustin...all in the synergy ally...all be playing our OL for a very long time...not recent rerolls
btw to the guy above, the one class u should not be losing to is daggers. Susension/slow/stun is greater then all daggers. I was even able to beat daggers 10 lvls higher then me in c2 during the chronicles of daggers. If you could tank one round of blows by them....you can survive. Suspension makes daggers cry more then any other class
btw doom and +4 dex is my light armor of choice (because i own it)...i have seen other ol use dc light..both work well, if i had more money i would of went with an A light armor for pve or perhaps (i know i said no heavy) i would test tallum heavy..although i would be very hestitant. However in pvp no excuses robes only...you wear anything else...well u shouldnt be playing your class. I also hear bluewolf light is nice for soloing (esp cuz if you get ganked u still have the 15% cast speed to defend yourself in)
Well, that is something I would love to see, cause we have two 71 level daggers in our clan, w/ Soul Guard on, I can stand about 1 minute against them. AoE's land less than 20% of the time. That is all AoE's since they are clannies, they don't mind me trying combo's on them to work thru this. Suspension / slow don't hit very often at all at A grade on them, and you have to be really close. I won't even deal with Stun cause up to this point, with a nice blunt, it only lands about 10% of the time. I am better off with Soul Cry and Soul Guard and bashing my way out of it if none of the debuffs land.
basically wc can play the role of a prophet and get parties easy
At higher levels, like 60+, at mid 50th and such WC buffs are mostly inferior to the profet/se buffs. In clan parties at those lvls I mostly did like 3-4 buffs only, the ones I have same or better then a boxed SE my CL had. And I belive that WC got more damage potencial and less mana problems so we can easily to step up and take part in fighting or CC.
lvl 40-52 fp heavy, fp shield, ds+focus
PL light is also great. It gives +4str and just -1con. lesser pdef is compencated by more mp regen and higher return on the VR. I tryed both FP and PL in my C grade, so I know that from experience.
And dagger is only better with soul cry on, but you can't keep it up for alot if you are primary buffer, and tanker, and also need to srow in a few heals as well. That's a comon role in duo-trio with meles especialy before lvl 59 and VR2. Also, daggers use more shots, so you need to go to town more often. THis is especialy noticable in C grade where you use multiple shots per hit and the shots are hevier then in B grade. With twohander i had to go to town to restock every 2 hours or so, and with dager which hit's faster and for less then 2hander it will be probably even more often. And put heavy on top of that, just ugh.
52-61- bluewolf robes, doom shield, focus kris
For WC for solo? You will have to rest every buffround if not more often. Even an OL with soul guard on will need to, got a friend duing that sometimes.. And same for duoing with a dd before you get VR2, you better of tanking part time and draining to heal then using chant of life all the time. And robes aren't the thing for tanking..
I personally use tallum + 0 and +8 focus kris (you dont need overenchated but its nice)...if you can afford get a bloody orchid + focus
Actualy, +8 or so kris is better pve wise then a bloody ocrid. It got same patack, but cheaper shots, and i also belive that it got more matack then the A dager. And those two cost about the same if you count the SA's into te price. Only thing the A dager got better is added damage for pvp, but come on, how many shamans play DD's for pvp?
Well, that is something I would love to see, cause we have two 71 level daggers in our clan, w/ Soul Guard on, I can stand about 1 minute against them. AoE's land less than 20% of the time. That is all AoE's since they are clannies, they don't mind me trying combo's on them to work thru this. Suspension / slow don't hit very often at all at A grade on them, and you have to be really close. I won't even deal with Stun cause up to this point, with a nice blunt, it only lands about 10% of the time. I am better off with Soul Cry and Soul Guard and bashing my way out of it if none of the debuffs land.
arent you 66? and if you ever soul cry an enemey (short of maybe having vicotry sws and bd dances) you are doing something wrong esp in 1 vs 1.
Stun lands way more then 10% on daggers lol id say 40%. You should be suspension slowing / stunning if they to close...then once slowed you just chain drain them. Really not a problem. If slow doesnt land...then dont kite them stand up and tnak them with soul guard never show your back unless they are slow.
basically wc can play the role of a prophet and get parties easy
At higher levels, like 60+, at mid 50th and such WC buffs are mostly inferior to the profet/se buffs. In clan parties at those lvls I mostly did like 3-4 buffs only, the ones I have same or better then a boxed SE my CL had. And I belive that WC got more damage potencial and less mana problems so we can easily to step up and take part in fighting or CC.
lvl 40-52 fp heavy, fp shield, ds+focus
PL light is also great. It gives +4str and just -1con. lesser pdef is compencated by more mp regen and higher return on the VR. I tryed both FP and PL in my C grade, so I know that from experience.
And dagger is only better with soul cry on, but you can't keep it up for alot if you are primary buffer, and tanker, and also need to srow in a few heals as well. That's a comon role in duo-trio with meles especialy before lvl 59 and VR2. Also, daggers use more shots, so you need to go to town more often. THis is especialy noticable in C grade where you use multiple shots per hit and the shots are hevier then in B grade. With twohander i had to go to town to restock every 2 hours or so, and with dager which hit's faster and for less then 2hander it will be probably even more often. And put heavy on top of that, just ugh.
52-61- bluewolf robes, doom shield, focus kris
For WC for solo? You will have to rest every buffround if not more often. Even an OL with soul guard on will need to, got a friend duing that sometimes.. And same for duoing with a dd before you get VR2, you better of tanking part time and draining to heal then using chant of life all the time. And robes aren't the thing for tanking..
I personally use tallum + 0 and +8 focus kris (you dont need overenchated but its nice)...if you can afford get a bloody orchid + focus
Actualy, +8 or so kris is better pve wise then a bloody ocrid. It got same patack, but cheaper shots, and i also belive that it got more matack then the A dager. And those two cost about the same if you count the SA's into te price. Only thing the A dager got better is added damage for pvp, but come on, how many shamans play DD's for pvp?
your last block is only thing i agree with you on.
Your comment about soling with soulguard on...is compeltely stupid. You shouldnt be soloing duoing with soulguard on...infact never touch soulguard in pve unless your gonna die from an over pull or your doing aoe. Lol most of the time i dont even turn soulguard on in pvp unless i have an archer group on me.
In pve with my recommended dagger setup....the only skill you should be using is soulcry...and it should be toggeled between each mob.
all you said about the pre 60 stuff...ill just ignore as possible truth...i havent played pre60 orc mage since first weeks of c2.
Plated leather mgiht work....but fp is also good and i know it works. 40-52 is the only time you want to consider really hunting wth heavy.
and last note, once a wc gets all his buffs...hes just as good as any other buffer esp in melee parties. I acutally perfer warcrier over prophet or se. Faster buffing...and they have vr and haste making them the only class with both. Wc makes perfect buffer in group if your gonna use ee or bishop as your healer. regardless wc should have no problems getting all there lvls from melees groups at 60+. OL is a bit different 60+, your more often forced to solo (horrid xp) or duo/trio...or if your lucky you might get a group if people feel bad for you.
a) remeber we are talking WC not OL seig subbed WC
I did FP til 52 just draining to heal. until then u have few buffs to mess with and partyies are kinda rare duo with a gladi or bd is the best (tho I did have top/bottom o karmianfor the rare casesw I got one.
52-61 bw light is really the best. Good p def, same mp regen as robe, good casting speed, cheap. true u won't have all the mp for all ur buffs at one time, but if u space out the buffs over a period of time it works well.
61+ is really ur decision. However Most go robe. At this time a fair amount of mp reserve has built up and u can drain people to death, this is the easiest and most effect way to kill people (along with ff of course). Being a glad u know what it is like to be kited so u can understand. I carry both a heavy and a robe set with me at almost all times. But I would consider robes being a top prioity.
Dagger is great PvE solo, and in a group where no crowd control is needed but remember if u go dagger ur ability to sleep will be fairly small. In addition I would not reccomend a dagger until lvl 52 becuase orc mystics are the lowest acc class in the game, if u go for the low acc weap the crits will not make up for the misses. I would wait until at least guidance 1 (unless u got a buffer behind you)
Just pm me if u have any questions, I always enjoy helping as long as u are polite (soo many pm's from hero just saying what they want... lol)
That coment was about soloing in robe. The only way i see it working is with soulguard or an outcide buffer, a SE with high VR, for example.
In pve with my recommended dagger setup....the only skill you should be using is soulcry...and it should be toggeled between each mob.
That what I do, exept with a twohander. Since I belive that without soulcry and just with with self buffs (focus 2 and guidance 2 by lvl 60) twohander is same, or better then dager. Well it definetly uses less ss ;). And being the main buffer it's no way you will be able to keep soulcry on at least half of the mobs.
ok ill just respond to both you guys. I really kind assumed you were getting outside buffs. Myself i have vr4 all times because of clan hall. But yes this guide is if you have access to outside buffer. If you dont have at least vr2..soling will not be effective at all and my dagger setup wont even work for duoing or trioing...trust me with soul cry on you will get tons of agro.
But yes....my guides...are all for moderatly to full buffs (prophet or se or both). Really if you have an se (vr2-3 at least) you can use a haste pot and follow my guide fine. If you dont have any buffers...well i suggest you lvl your wc/ol in group being CC. If we are talking about wc...your better off then ol for self buffs because you have vr.
Most of this is regarding an ol because thats what i have...but i also leveled a wc in c1 to 61 before they had vr ect...so both classes were very similar.
Most people that reroll ol today at least have a prophet or se buff bot....so this quide is for them.
Well i have a WC lvl 50 and im wondering what i should wear in B grade. I like to deal melee damage but i want to have an average m attack to use some drains. I was wondering in Avadon Robes + Focus Duals / Great Sword + Focus. I really dont like blunts cause of low crit rate and m attack... Give me some feedback pls :)