as an offspring of the long thread about the last event, I would like to describe the apparent current situation and ask a few questions about it, then open up for a discussion.
First, it is obvious, that some things in game need to be invluenced by the real worlds time. That is the sieges, it is the downtime, it is the olympiad, the manor reset and the start and end of the seven signs periods.
All of these thngs are sharply timed and geared to benefit the majority of the players (8 times for NA-times, once for european times).
I will not challenge any of these set times, as I believe they are reasonable and since all of it includes rather small time intervals. The manor reset does need to happen at one second along the day. The server downtime needs to be one hour of the day every week. The olympiad is a few hours every day. All of these parts of the game cannot be spread all over the 24h range, without making it worse to almost all players.
Througout the latest events, it became more and more obvious, that there are more things, that are affected by the real worlds time though. I am speaking of probabilities, which do seem to change periodically throughout a larger timeframe.
The difference I see, is that the previously mentioned times are for short intervals, while an event is typically running for 1-2 weeks straight.
It is not really confirmed or obvious, but it could be possible, that normal drop and spoil rates are affected by a similar cycle as events are.
The cyclic changes are coming to the effect, that more items of some kinds are aquired during the so called "peak hours" of the game. The peak hours seem to be set for all servers and appear to be different on Teon than on the other servers.
This leads to the guess, that attentionally the assumed peak hours are favoured with a higher yield of event and maybe regular items.
so far, so good...
Any player around the world can play on the NA-Servers. Anyone can play on the one designated European Server. The game is announced to be free for all.
So with that in mind, I would think of the game also being fair for all, as much as that is possible, as every customer is also paying the same as every other customer is. Equality to all. There are no prime customers and no second class customers.
While the first mentioned times of sieges and olympiad and manor and stuff are all officially announced and most of them know from the start, the apparent change of drops in favour of peak times, is not officially admitted anywhere.
Cause of that, a player with 6 hours of gametime at their hand per day, should be getting a fair share of the whole game, regardless of when they use up those 6 hours. Obviously someone with 12 hours playtime per day will have more of everything than the one with 6h playtime, but in a fair setup, any 6h period should yield the same rewards, unless officially stated to not be that way (so that people got a fair chance to maybe plan their day in their favour).
Now let me get to some arguments as I read them in the Squash Thread...
Thesis: Non-NA players should play on Teon, or live with it
Well, first of all, there was no Teon, when many non-NA players started the game. I do not know of any statistics, which show subscribers per continent, but from what I see on boards and in game, I know, that the non-American fraction is not a blatant minority. I do not claim, that there are more non-NA players, than there are NA-players, but I also do not think, that the non-NA players are less than 30% of the total subscribers (and I am only talking about human beings here, not the number of accounts those run). Teon on the other hand is also joined by American players, as the servers are all free for all. No stress with that fact. Everyone knows the rules about the timing for Teon and for the rest, and every new player can decide if they want to join Teon or one of the other servers. Old players however are supporting Lineage2 for years by now (with their account fee) and are therefore absolutely legit to stay on the server, that they did start on.
Thesis: The peak benefit does benefit real players and hurts bots
Well, an automated player will always get the maximum in drops over a certain time period. That simply comes from the fact, that they are online 24 hours per day. So peak time or not peak time, they will get the highest total over the time interval, no matter what.
Now if the probability of a drop is lowered out of peak and raised during peak, a player, who is only playing in peak time will have a higher average drop number per hour played than an automated player. A player, who is only playing out of peak time, will have a lower average drop numberoer hour played, that an automated player.
As there is no announcement of the peak issue, the out of peak player is essentially at a disatvantage over the peak-player, although both are paying the same money for the game, spend the same time on it and may even share the same timeszone, they live in, just play at different times, for whatever reason.
Well, it is called peak, as that is when the most players are on, so lets take that into the argument...
There are obviously more in-peak players than there are out-of-peak players (logically, the players, who are playing peak and more hours than that, are to be called peak players, as they get the full advantage time). So the reasoning could be, to use the peak issue, to have the peak players get more items/hour of play than the automated players.
However this is a bit flawed for two reasons...
a) automated players will still get the most raw numbers, even if they get a worse average. There is no chance to change that, as they will stay 24/7.
b) it is unfair towards the minority of out-of-peak players. Once more, there is absolutely no announcement about any time, the game should be played or any benefit you gain from playing during certain time. So in a way, this peak thing is discriminating the players, who simply got no chance to play during the peak hours due to RL. (Please note, that this does include many Americans too.)
Thesis: There are more players from America, than the rest of the world
Actually, I would not be that sure about it. Only NCsoft could proove that, and as far as I know, they did never publish any statistic of subscribers per country. But the more important question would be... "ok, it is true, but should that count ?".
Most of us (I assume) are living in democratic societies, and sarcastically speaking, a democracy is the oppression of the minorities. You can vote for your candidate, but if they do not win, you are still ruled by the guy that you did not vote for. And you are bound to those decisions.... And once again, am I getting into the transparency... You know, that there will be a ruler and you know, that it is not necessarily your candidate.
The peak issue is some kind of oppression of the minority (players, playing in out-of-peak times), but without telling them, that it is the case. It is like voting for your candidate and seeing them take the decisions, while in truth, the other guy is pulling the strings.
You would not want that in RL, so why would anyone accept it in a game ?
Thesis: NCsoft can do whatever they want
True, no questions asked. They can do whatever they want, and logically they will try their best to accomodate the majority of their players. However by treating some players less equal than others in any way, you are creating a two-class-citizenship in the game. The players able to get the benefit and the players unable to get the benefit.
*takes breath*
I got carried away a bit. This post is getting a bit long for a majority of people to read, so I will make a short starter at the end of it:
Situation:
"Inofficial consensus about peak playtimes affecting certain in game effects, such as droprates of eventitems."
Sensitive Issue:
1- Should there be any difference of basic game design during different times of day in RL ?
2- Should NCsoft openly admit or negate the existance of such effect ?
Please discuss in a civilised manner...
Peak - Kitten - Peak
P.S: A little background, in case people assume, that I only write this thread out of personal greed.... I am able to play during peak times, if I want to. My normal life does not include such a setting and I am normally asleep during peak times (as I am normally asleep at this time, when I write this text). After playing Lineage2 since open beta, I got about 20 Million adena to my name, so obviously I am not playing much, not playing effective, and yes, I would like to play under the same fair rules, as everyone else all over the world.
I made out like a bandit on this event (20 large squash, over 100 small), but I believe that all players should get a fair shot during events.
The worst part is that NC does not announce the varying drop rates, yet they're obvious for people that can play during both the peak and non peak hours. Those average players that don't check the forums or keep tabs on everything in the game are at the greatest disadvantage, even at the last day of this event I still met people unaware of the drop differences. And this is despite the fact that many other events had the same system in place.
So I think the first step should be NC admitting to the drop rate changes, so that people are at least aware of their chances during events. I'd also like to know myself if the drop rate changes are in effect during normal gameplay, though my personal experience tells me that they don't exist.
After that, I'd like to see drop rates normalized during all times. Decreased during peak hours and increased during non peak hours if need be, but two people who put in ten hours should yield the same rewards (at least probability wise, of course one is going to be luckier).
That kind of thing is just common sense for me, especially with such a varied customer base.
Yes, I gathered about 4/5 of it myself and bought the remaining 1/5 (at 10-15k, only bought the rare deals that popped up). I was fortunate enough to be in an area fighting greens that my PR could take down in 4 shots (nonbuffed), and the enemies spawned faster than I could kill. I also played during the entire peak hours every day and some non peak hours as well, which means normalizing the drop rates would likely hurt me during events.
I'm well aware of how to maximize profits during an event (it's how I've always obtained my gear), but I think people should not have to go to such extremes and set up play schedules in order to benefit from one.
Edit: I think the fact that I was so successful and yet other people who put in a lot of time during non peak hours failed so badly is a clear indication that something is wrong with the way drops are now.
I agree for the most part fullheartedly with you. But even when the peakhour thing gets fixed, this would still leave first class and secondclass citizens. Especially the not being able to manor is a thorn in my thumb.
But the existance of peak hours is a sad sad thing. Totally in favour of abolishing that injustice. My money is worth as much as any other customer so.....
There needs to be some way to make it spread the drops over groups. as it is healers are at a major dissavatage then a nuker or archer.
I totally agree, I played in the last 5 hours of the event, and when I only got 32 pollen droped in the last few minutes thats stupid. AND I'm a archer solo'd mobs for hours and this is what I got. *shackes head*
But I did see a shop selling 3k+ of them pollen, I meen wth!
free for all but not fair for all. If you make the conscious choice to play on a server willingly knowing it is way out of your time zone be prepared to be subservant to the masses.
If the drops peaked during a game time period instead of a real time period, then it would have been fairer. Day and night cycles are much faster in game no?
free for all but not fair for all. If you make the conscious choice to play on a server willingly knowing it is way out of your time zone be prepared to be subservant to the masses.
As I pointed out, there are dozens of logical reasons for a person from anywhere on the world to be unable to play during peak hours, be it teon or the other servers.
Everyone needs to pay the exact same ammount of money and so they should be getting the same out of it... unless it is officially announced, that there are time differences, as it was done with manor reset, siege times, etc...
And as far as the conscious choice goes... When I started the game, I started on Server 6. Back in open beta, it did not have a name. Later it was called Gustin. All my in game friends are on Gustin. Some of them are not germans. Some of them can play in peak hours.
With the introduction of Teon, I was given the option to forget all what I had on Gustin and move to a new server to start from scratch. That is not, what I call a conscious decision.
And even if I were playing on Teon, I would not necessarily be able to play during peak hours.
Also as you said for yourself, it is not fair... and I really do not see any logical reason, why it is not fair.
Let us just take three players from the same server, living in the same city and working for the same company, in eight hour shifts, that complement to a full 24h. They all like Lineage2 and they all play it in their free time, which obviously is influenced by the time they have to work.
Now one or two of the three is able to play during peak times while the other one or two are not able to. They knew in advance, that they would not be able to join a siege, unless that siegetime falls in the free time. They made the conscious choice to still start playing the game. They however never made the conscious choice to automatically get less of events, as that was never announced.
Yet they all pay the same money for the game...
I am not asking for more european servers. I have long stopped inquiring about server transfers. I am living my slow steady live on the server I chose well over a year ago and I am trying my best to get others into the game (fansite work ftw).
I am also wondering, if the peak issue is a technical phenomenon, due to design, or if it is a conscious choice.
I actually thought it was a technical phenomenon... I remember a thread not too long ago that was talking about certain things within the game, specifically dice, not being "truly" random. Somewhere within that thread it was suggested that you could beat the system, so to speak, of enchanting, or rolling the dice, by iniciating that action at the right moment.
I don't remember the finer details of the discussion, but it had something to do with the amount of times a certain action was performed, such as rolling the dice, in a given area, over a given length of time, or given max number of times performed. Like, if you were to roll the die at one moment in that timescale, you would get a 6. If you were to roll the die at the SAME time, in the next timescale, you would get a 6 as well. Maybe this same phenomenon is happening in a much broader sense, and pertains to the drop rate. Since there are more people online during "peak hours", the drop timescale is reset more often, because more people are killing more mobs. That, in turn, would cause a higher overall drop increase.
I don't know. This is all just speculation. If it is true, then go me. If not...well at least I tried.
This definitely isn't a technical phenomenon. The scenario Gildran is describing is due to the fact that computerized random generators are not truly random. To one who knows the source, it is possible to accurately predict what will be generated every time.
An extremely enhanced drop rate over a five-seven hour period can only be deliberate, especially when confirmed by so many players with the exact same results. Not to mention that Teon also has this enhanced drop rate during their 'peak' hours as well, which I'm sure some players still do not fit into.
Not really, as I am one of those.
What I do hate however, is poor or missing documentation for a feature or bug. The customer always deserves to know, why their program is acting in such a way, as it does.
A software engineer should rather admit poor design, than just keep the customer in the dark, as that would be common curtesy.
The problem is, that you cannot admit it, if you don't know it and the drop peak issue could easily be hidden so deep within the code, that only 2 guys in korea knew the exact answer.
However, it seems that the peak hours are rather predictable and the change in drop is not a continual raise and fall, but rather a "flip the switch" thing. That is a sign against the technical problem, as player ammount does not suddenly increase by a couple hundred players within 5 mins. The number of players is gradually cycling throughout the 24h period, very much like a modified sinus.
An official word would be very nice. Company secrets are reasonable, but if there truely is a two-class-citizenship in game, the second class at least deserves to know about it. Then they can either try to become first class or they can accept that they are second class.
free for all but not fair for all. If you make the conscious choice to play on a server willingly knowing it is way out of your time zone be prepared to be subservant to the masses.
This argument is getting old, and it is wrong. When I started playing, I chose one of the servers best suited for me as a european player, one of the east coast servers (because the ping was better). BUT ALL SERVERS WERE US TIME ZONE. Get it? There WAS no Teon server back then!
And when Teon came around, I was already too high lvl to reroll on a new server, and none of my friends wanted to make the move, either. Had NCSoft finally offered the **** server transfers, then I probably would have moved, as would my friends. So blame NCSoft, not the players.
So just stop with this argument, most of the non-US players did not have any other choice but to play on a US time zone server when they started, because there WAS nothing else.
This argument is getting old, and it is wrong. When I started playing, I chose one of the servers best suited for me as a european player, one of the east coast servers (because the ping was better). BUT ALL SERVERS WERE US TIME ZONE. Get it? There WAS no Teon server back then!
And when Teon came around, I was already too high lvl to reroll on a new server, and none of my friends wanted to make the move, either. Had NCSoft finally offered the **** server transfers, then I probably would have moved, as would my friends.
Thanks Syl, that's what I wanted to say (or kinda that ;) ). Although I was not that high as Teon came up, I had found a lot friends on Hindemith who where much higher than me. So it was an easy decision for me not to change.
For me this event was absolutely senseless because I only play 2 or 3 hours a day in the evening and although I mostly have very good parties I found the huge number of 5 (in letters FIVE) pollen *rofl* during the event days. Fortunately I don't care about it.
BTW, great posting Schmusekatze - sounds very objective to me.
free for all but not fair for all. If you make the conscious choice to play on a server willingly knowing it is way out of your time zone be prepared to be subservant to the masses.
As I pointed out, there are dozens of logical reasons for a person from anywhere on the world to be unable to play during peak hours, be it teon or the other servers.
Everyone needs to pay the exact same ammount of money and so they should be getting the same out of it... unless it is officially announced, that there are time differences, as it was done with manor reset, siege times, etc...
And as far as the conscious choice goes... When I started the game, I started on Server 6. Back in open beta, it did not have a name. Later it was called Gustin. All my in game friends are on Gustin. Some of them are not germans. Some of them can play in peak hours.
With the introduction of Teon, I was given the option to forget all what I had on Gustin and move to a new server to start from scratch. That is not, what I call a conscious decision.
And even if I were playing on Teon, I would not necessarily be able to play during peak hours.
Also as you said for yourself, it is not fair... and I really do not see any logical reason, why it is not fair.
Let us just take three players from the same server, living in the same city and working for the same company, in eight hour shifts, that complement to a full 24h. They all like Lineage2 and they all play it in their free time, which obviously is influenced by the time they have to work.
Now one or two of the three is able to play during peak times while the other one or two are not able to. They knew in advance, that they would not be able to join a siege, unless that siegetime falls in the free time. They made the conscious choice to still start playing the game. They however never made the conscious choice to automatically get less of events, as that was never announced.
Yet they all pay the same money for the game...
I am not asking for more european servers. I have long stopped inquiring about server transfers. I am living my slow steady live on the server I chose well over a year ago and I am trying my best to get others into the game (fansite work ftw).
I am also wondering, if the peak issue is a technical phenomenon, due to design, or if it is a conscious choice.
World Kitten
Regardless of how you word it there are the most amount of people on at these 'key times'. Server load itself can prove that. The only people that benefit from lowering peak hour drops and evening them out for the minority is you know who. Do I think there should be another euro server? Yes. Do I think that servers with largerly north and south america populations should be changed to accomodate the minority population? No, not really.
Do I think normal drops should be the same at any time of the day? Yes, you bet.
Do I think drop tables for events should be equal at all times of the day? No, not really.
Thesis: There are more players from America, than the rest of the world
lies ... :p
only most of the bots run for US ppl...
i live in euro too, but i was wondering 2 years about the crappy drop rates in this game, only at late nite/early morning its possible to get any mats/drops u may hunting for.
its 2006, why we need peak times ?
people on the whole world playing L2 not only some US...
make the servers PEAK ONLY 24/7... then the bots faster away than u wish..
may we get some drops when we play ...
may its possible to hunt the mats u need for ur gear ?!?
Thesis: There are more players from America, than the rest of the world
lies ... :p
only most of the bots run for US ppl...
i live in euro too, but i was wondering 2 years about the crappy drop rates in this game, only at late nite/early morning its possible to get any mats/drops u may hunting for.
its 2006, why we need peak times ?
people on the whole world playing L2 not only some US...
make the servers PEAK ONLY 24/7... then the bots faster away than u wish..
may we get some drops when we play ...
may its possible to hunt the mats u need for ur gear ?!?
ok, login to the game right now and look at the server loads. Teon is probably full but the rest of the servers arent.
Ok, now login to the server list anywhere between 5pm cst-1am cst
Notice they are almost all under heavy load? It must be all the euros who dont sleep, right, right? I mean, that makes total sense. You have these baltant facts staring you in the face that are backed up everytime you login to the game yet you still live off in this fantasy world. Yes, event drop tables are adjusted for Teon. No, of course drop tables are not adjusted for euro's on largely north/south american servers.
Hindemith is quite often heavy when I login during Euro peak times (6pm GMT). It's certainly not Euro peak time yet, most people will still be at work or school, probably why the servers aren't all that full :p.
There are a lot more non-NA people playing this game that you think. Even if there weren't why should people be penalised for the timezone they live in? I could understand it if it was an NA only game, but it's been released in stores in Europe and so I really don't see a good reason for drop rates to be dependant on timezones.
And when Teon came around, I was already too high lvl to reroll on a new server, and none of my friends wanted to make the move, either. Had NCSoft finally offered the **** server transfers, then I probably would have moved, as would my friends. So blame NCSoft, not the players.
Even if server transfers had been possible I can't see Teon being able to cope with all the European players that would want to move there. I doubt the server could handle the Euros of Hindemith moving there considering both are often heavy during Euro playtimes. It would be an interesting test sometime, all Euro players leaving their servers and trying to join Teon :).
Do I think normal drops should be the same at any time of the day? Yes, you bet.
Do I think drop tables for events should be equal at all times of the day? No, not really.
Actually I do not understand the reasoning, why you would want that different.
If the majority of players should have an advantage over the bots, then it would be only logical to also make drop rates, heck even exp rates follow the same peak curve as with event items.
OK, that would totally bust the players, that are not online during peak times, but that's the way it goes.
Making it different for drops and event drops is illogical and inconsistant, once you take the argument of "we want to benefit the players over the bots".
Also I would like to add, that I never challenged the fact, that there are more players online during peak times. That is why they are called peak times. I just would like to know, if it is considered to be fair for me to pay 15 $ per month and you paying 15 $ per month and you getting more drops in the same ammount of hours, just because when you play there are lots of other people, who play too ?
And if it IS fair, then I really wonder, why normal drops and exp is not affected by the same setting, as when the Peak Issue is fair, then the normal drops and the exp not following that example would be unfair to the majority, wouldn't it ?
yes... and i can show u most of botted spot with no bots atm ... weird huh ?
but their back when PEAK TIME is ^^
i know why ...
catas is another thing , AA drops always :p
Yeah, sure thing. Could you please let me know the other high bot traffic spots outside of catas necros and dungeons?? This is a flimsy reply and you know it. Just walk through town and you can see how many people are actually running around, not many. 5pm-1am cst there are a ton, all that needs to be said.
To clarify, I believe kitten means "inconsistant", not "inconsequential" (the German word for inconsistant is inkonsequent).
I do agree with her, if that is the case. :)
PS: I don't mean that in a mean way Kaetzchen, really just by ways of clarification as the difference in meaning is significant - inconsequential means something like belanglos. ^_^
PPS: I have not noticed a siginficant difference in the population in the spots I play, and I have played pretty much around the clock. The only thing that seems empty is my euro-heavy friendlist at night, but that's obvious.
No, I realize how many non-NA/SA players there are (dont forget this is time zone related not country related. There are a large amount of brazillians and other south american players as well as canadian players). The simple fact is they are still the minority regardless of how you try to spin it. Should normal drop rates be higher at certain times? No. Should event drop rates benefit the peak server times for the peak audience? Yes. Also, lets not forget the dark lord event and the ivory tower event where mobs spawned at 12pm cst and 6pm cst. That was a HUGE advantaged for non-NA players because they had no competition to get all the mobs and thus they were able to cash in big time.
Did you hear any crying then when it was benefitting you over someone else? No, did you hear NA/SA players whining that you were getting the advantage? No, poor you, poor popr you.
Should event drop rates benefit the peak server times for the peak audience? Yes.
Why ? Why should anyone from the USA be penalized for having to work during the peak hours and being only able to play 8 hours in the morning till noon ?
@Elvenaura: Stop calling everyone a whiner, who is not agreeing with you ! I will not tell you to get the 923 out of my thread, like you did with your suggestion, but if you are calling people whiners for asking for fairness, then you got no place here ! (or anywhere else)
its just unfair to customers who pay for the same and get like 10% !!
Actually, you get about 99% and events are the only thing that is the topic here. Events are not guaranteed and are not even part of the EULA. You might want to get off your cross and at least speak in legitimate terms instead of making it sound like everything in the game is upped at central time.
Do I think normal drops should be the same at any time of the day? Yes, you bet.
Do I think drop tables for events should be equal at all times of the day? No, not really.
Actually I do not understand the reasoning, why you would want that different.
If the majority of players should have an advantage over the bots, then it would be only logical to also make drop rates, heck even exp rates follow the same peak curve as with event items.
OK, that would totally bust the players, that are not online during peak times, but that's the way it goes.
Making it different for drops and event drops is illogical and inconsistant, once you take the argument of "we want to benefit the players over the bots".
Also I would like to add, that I never challenged the fact, that there are more players online during peak times. That is why they are called peak times. I just would like to know, if it is considered to be fair for me to pay 15 $ per month and you paying 15 $ per month and you getting more drops in the same ammount of hours, just because when you play there are lots of other people, who play too ?
And if it IS fair, then I really wonder, why normal drops and exp is not affected by the same setting, as when the Peak Issue is fair, then the normal drops and the exp not following that example would be unfair to the majority, wouldn't it ?
Reverse engineered Kitten
Because normal exp/drops/whatever dont give the same bonuses as an event. You dont get soul crystals/enchants scrolls in a very short time in very large amounts just walking around. This is about the economy and trying to benefit the largest player base as much as possible while trying to benefit the robotic players in the least amount possible. Of course it isn't fair, it won't be 'fair' because the system is based on an outside force (robotic players) so they made a scenario that would help the majority of players while beneffiting those non-legit players the least. That is the peak time event drop table.
So you are saying, if there were an event, that was limited to the European server only, that the players of the other servers had no reason to complain ?
Interesting concept.
Also I would like to mention, that I did leave it open in my OP, if NCsoft was intentionally making such a special event drop table. And even if I am to accept an unfair distribution, I would still believe, that I got a legitimate demand to be TOLD about the setting being in favour of peak times.
It is not clearly established whether or not standard drops are affected by this.
You still fail to deliver an arguement as to why there should be a peak time - after all, you don't just say "I don't care," you say "I'm in favour of shafting non-peak-time players out of events".
PS: Didn't kitten already give you the talk-through about how spreading the event out would not actually help or hurt automated players? Is it all right to design the game around them at the risk of bothering other players?
Then let's remove autofollow, targeting, karma system, spoils and all those other things that they get more out of anyway...
Not introducing a peak time makes it fair for all players, and leaves bots unaffected.
What does spreading the peak time across 24/7 do, except even the field for all players?
Well, look at it this way
Teon is packed with euro's and their peak times were switched to benefit them and I am sure it was well received there.
Every other server is largerly na/sa with some population abroad and the peak times were set to benefit the peak server hours.
Now, lets think about it this way. NC Soft had large drop rates 24/7 for the last pumpkin event. They found that this was bad for the economy especially since the robot players were collecting such huge amounts.
So, they look at the event and say they still want to help the server but they dont want things to get messed up by last time. So lets give the most players we can a large amount of seeds just for a short timespan. Is it 100% fair? No, not really. Does it benefit the majority? Yes, definately.
If they would have taken the drop tables and evened them out across the 24 hours everyone would be on this board complaining right now about how bad the drops sucked and then nc soft would have a lot of ****** of customers. This way, they were able to keep their main player base content and the minority of players didnt get to enjoy as much of the event unfortunatley.
Is it fair? Not really but is it necessary? probably
First, it is obvious, that some things in game need to be invluenced by the real worlds time. That is the sieges, it is the downtime, it is the olympiad, the manor reset and the start and end of the seven signs periods.
They could make amendments to the manor system to make it fairer to international players. Two resets per day is a prime example. It won't happen because development is made for a market where attempts are made to prevent players from other timezones from playing on the servers (having to have a national ID to play on servers in particular counties for instance). Hence the developers do not think about the timezone
The way to solve this would be for the game to be more customizable to support localization. Allow NCNA to set 2 manor refreshes per day and have the code support it by dividing the sales/purchases amounts accordingly.
Allow them to configure events to a greater extent. So much could be done but it requires the developers in Korea to realise that the NA version of L2 has vastly different requirements to the "local" version that they code. It is up to NCNA to make the Korean developers realize this.
So you are saying, if there were an event, that was limited to the European server only, that the players of the other servers had no reason to complain ?
Interesting concept.
Also I would like to mention, that I did leave it open in my OP, if NCsoft was intentionally making such a special event drop table. And even if I am to accept an unfair distribution, I would still believe, that I got a legitimate demand to be TOLD about the setting being in favour of peak times.
Interested Kitten
There never would be such an event especially for the minority of the overall game population, it just doesnt make any sense and is completely impractical business model. So lets stick to reality here even though I know that is stretch for you at times. NA players have accepted that we are the minority next to korea. We accept those facts. Game changes/events/whatever we dont really have a say in. The sooner you are able to accept the role a minority in a MMORPG has to play the easier it will be for you to accept.
its not for event only , elven ...
the whole drop system is affected by this "times".
alot ppl do it like me and try to play at night !!
because a blind could see that u get more...
if i ever see the sun again ? dunno :confused:
and btw , people crying since a long long time for another euro server ...
Whaattt? All event tables are affected via the time? I have never heard of this...well, as my earlier posts state I do support standard drops being the same at all times. I am just talking about event drops and specifically event drops that drop from any mob
Well, now let's take your argument of "benefitting the majority" one step further...
I would guess, that actively played Bounty Hunters are a clear minority on all servers.
However bots are greatly benefitting of having a Bounty Hunter in their group. Those are not actively played though.
So let us remove the skill spoil.
Yes, it would hurt a minority of real players, but it would hurt the bots much more...
Would it be fair to the legitimately playing BHs ? No, but who cares about fairness ?
Ah, I guess only whiners do that.
And I still remain with my opinion:
If there is such an unfair setting, then NCsoft should have the guts to tell us about it, so that the legitimate players got a chance to accomodate those setting by playing during peak time, when there are events running.
First, it is obvious, that some things in game need to be invluenced by the real worlds time. That is the sieges, it is the downtime, it is the olympiad, the manor reset and the start and end of the seven signs periods.
They could make amendments to the manor system to make it fairer to international players. Two resets per day is a prime example. It won't happen because development is made for a market where attempts are made to prevent players from other timezones from playing on the servers (having to have a national ID to play on servers in particular counties for instance). Hence the developers do not think about the timezone
The way to solve this would be for the game to be more customizable to support localization. Allow NCNA to set 2 manor refreshes per day and have the code support it by dividing the sales/purchases amounts accordingly.
Allow them to configure events to a greater extent. So much could be done but it requires the developers in Korea to realise that the NA version of L2 has vastly different requirements to the "local" version that they code. It is up to NCNA to make the Korean developers realize this.
two manor reset times? That is a huge joke. The only people that would benefit is robots and the small % of euros that play. So basically you are telling me it is fair for you to have about a 1000% better chance than north american players at turning in your seeds? No double manor reset, ever ever ever.
Well, now let's take your argument of "benefitting the majority" one step further...
I would guess, that actively played Bounty Hunters are a clear minority on all servers.
However bots are greatly benefitting of having a Bounty Hunter in their group. Those are not actively played though.
So let us remove the skill spoil.
Yes, it would hurt a minority of real players, but it would hurt the bots much more...
Would it be fair to the legitimately playing BHs ? No, but who cares about fairness ?
Ah, I guess only whiners do that.
And I still remain with my opinion:
If there is such an unfair setting, then NCsoft should have the guts to tell us about it, so that the legitimate players got a chance to accomodate those setting by playing during peak time, when there are events running.
Walking Kitten
I play a bh and a ws as you may already know. I think it is pretty obvious they are already nerfing dwarves for that specific reason. Also, I am talking about even drops only and that is all I am going to cover. Character development/plot/sieges/manor/whatever is all game content known by players and solidified in the game. Events can come at any time and are not guaranteed in any form and thats why they can vary so much.
There never would be such an event especially for the minority of the overall game population, it just doesnt make any sense and is completely impractical business model.
ok, so make it an event for all servers but not for Teon. You now have an event for the majority of players. And still it would be unfair without end and every player of Teon would run havoc with good reason... Oh, but we would hurt the bots of Teon, so it would be a good thing, eh ?
So lets stick to reality here even though I know that is stretch for you at times.
Did you know, that falling back on insulting the other one, is a very poor way of running an argument ?
We accept those facts. Game changes/events/whatever we dont really have a say in. The sooner you are able to accept the role a minority in a MMORPG has to play the easier it will be for you to accept.
Well, then why do you make suggestions in the suggestions forum ? Apparently you (like me) are not accepting to have no say on the matter.
look arround manor manager at reset time,
notice the names ... and look for them later ...
u can see 99% of em "autoseeding" ...
2 reset times would make a bigger chance for real players to put some seeds in. staying 1 week on ur seeds suxx a little , if u ever able to put em in ^^
Well, things are getting conveluted(sp) so lets just get to the bottom line
Players were unhappy with events with no rewards
NCSoft is running the pumpkin event again in Korea
They decide to bring it here for a short term
They had many players mad about the economy and castle lords from events with huge amounts of drops.
They needed some way to keep drops under control while making the players happy about an event
They couldnt make the drops low all day because everyone would be ****** off.
They couldnt make them high all day because that would really hurt some of the economy and castles.
They needed a solution that would make most players happy and able to enjoy the event while keeping the market in check and ensuring there wasnt an insane amount of pots/crystals/soulcrystals/enchats hitting the market.
They decided to go with peak times and up the drop rate at those times.
Please, I would like to hear any suggestions that would accomplish these same goals while making euro players on mainly na/sa servers happy.
look arround manor manager at reset time,
notice the names ... and look for them later ...
u can see 99% of em "autoseeding" ...
2 reset times would make a bigger chance for real players to put some seeds in. staying 1 week on ur seeds suxx a little , if u ever able to put em in ^^
I manor almost everyday, name is fallensun say high to me next time I am in giran at the manor.
Two reset times would improve chances for bots, and reduce the chances for all players who can not be up for both reset times, get that, both, not one of them. Even now those who can not be up for the reset time can always commission a trustworthy hand-inner to do their job for them.
Elvenaura, you still fail to explain why event drops are different from normal ones - quantitiy can't be the arguement, cutting someone's chance of getting recipe drops/spoils down to 1/10th is a lot more severe than pushing them out of an event.
PS: Elvenaura, you forget the scenario of "middle drops all day long", which is, of course, the reasonable and expected one... And it doesn't have an impact on the economy when and to whom the pollen drops, it's the total amount dropped that matters.
Two reset times would improve chances for bots, and reduce the chances for all players who can not be up for both reset times, get that, both, not one of them. Even now those who can not be up for the reset time can always commission a trustworthy hand-inner to do their job for them.
Elvenaura, you still fail to explain why event drops are different from normal ones - quantitiy can't be the arguement, cutting someone's chance of getting recipe drops/spoils down to 1/10th is a lot more severe than pushing them out of an event.
PS: Elvenaura, you forget the scenario of "middle drops all day long", which is, of course, the reasonable and expected one... And it doesn't have an impact on the economy when and to whom the pollen drops, it's the total amount dropped that matters.
Just read my above post, I am done validating. I know why they did what they did and if euro's have a way that would make everyone happy, so be it. Otherwise I stand by my reasoning.
Real time affecting the game ? <-- thats the topic
so who cares about a messed up pollen drop event ...
the whole thing is the problem for many peps , not a event.
when i play to MY personal peak times, its usually like killing 5 -10k mobs and get nothing ...
since i dont have a fulltime job im able to skip alot sleep, killing at this times is like what u think how it have to work, getting fulldrops, keymats , spoils ...
i want this for the whole time im able to play, whenever this is , at day or night ....
would be fair to everyone, including the few US peps ^^
lmao, how the tune quickly changes when you are asked to provide answers to the question instead of just complaining. Also, it isnt a fact that drop tables are changed at different times just a theory. The only factual cases are event-based.
Let us assume, that the chance to get an (event) item off a mob killed is 10%.
Lets assume, that a player can kill 100 mobs per hour, that makes easy calculating.
That player could now make 240 items per day, if they would play 24hours straight.
Now let us assume, that the peak time is 3 hours and in the peak time, the percentage is 20%, while out of peak times, it is 5%.
The same player on the 24h routine is now getting 21*5+3*20 items, which is 160. Congratulations, the automated players did get less than before, while a peak player is getting more (calculated by the hour).
But what is really destroying the economy ? Is it 100 items on one player ? Is it 10 items each on 10 players ? Is it 1 item each on 100 players ? Or maybe is it the sheer raw number of items ?
Let us assume we got 500 players in my example and they all play exactly 3 hours per day. 50% of them are playing in the peak hours. The other 50% are distributed over the out-of peak hours.
With the 10% drop rate all day long, we pump a total of 500*3*0.1*100 = 15000 event items into the server per day.
Now with the peak times and the distribution as mentioned above, we got 100*250*3*0.05 + 100*250*3*0.2 = 18750 event items.
Oops. We are putting MORE items into the game, then if we had an even distribution over all the 24h. And we are not even benefitting a majority yet. 50% of the playerbase are getting a benefit and 50% are getting the shaft.
If we calculate 60%/40% and set peak and playtime to 6 hours, this is the result:
at 10%: 100*500*6*0,1 = 30000 event items per 24h (6 hours played)
at 5%/20%: 100*0.4*500*6*0.05 + 100*0.6*500*6*0.2 = 42000 event items.
So you see, if we are using an even distribution, we are hurting the overall economy of the server less, as the peak time droptables actually raise the total event item production, while the peak issue comes at the cost of an unfair treatment to a small minority of the playerbase.
Why dont you use the actual numbers from the event? Your examples are flawed because they arent really accurate and its hard to say what is 100% accurate.
It is hard to do the calculations without knowing the average amount of drops in the 6 hour (not 3 hour) expanded drop time, how many players are on at peak times and non-peak times etc.
I still dont see an example that would make everyone happy. An even low percentage drop rate would just piss everyone off. The goal is to make most people happy and to make it fair. The way they did the event did make most people happy but I am waiting for those unhappy ones to provide a valid way to even out these item drop events to benefit the majority of players (whoops, used that majority word why dont we say all players then), be the least benefitial to robots and to keep the server economy from going crazy.
Why dont you use the actual numbers from the event?
Easy. Cause I do not have them. If I would have drop informations, that are prooven to be true, I would be happy.
Personally I can even understand the incentive to hurt the bots by giving some valid players more than them.
However, I do not like the unfairness of it and most of all, I loathe the fact, that NCsoft does not openly admit such a setup.
You would not see me asking for the fair setup, if NCsoft would just say "The event is setup to favour peak times. We know, that it is unfair to players, who cannot play during the peak times, but our elaborations have shown, that this setup is best for the majority of players."
I would roll up my Minority Flag right away and hide back in my mine in Elmore.
But as long as there is no official word on it, all events deserve to be fair.
I dont get what you're asking? I laid out the scenario of why I think they did it, what was accomplished and how do people think they could better do it while still accomplishing the same goals.
That is pretty interesting. You also have to remember south america though since it is the same time zone. L2 has a healthy brazilian/SA population as well.
How do you know, that there is a significant south american playerbase, but the european playerbase is automatically a minority to you ?
Maybe that is true, maybe not, but how do you know it, as you are stating it as a fact.
Personally about 80% of the people, that I normally play with are germans.. But I would not dare to make any assumptions on the total playerbase by my own friendlist.
Did you know, that the combined population of europe is more than 2 times bigger than that of north america ?
According to an american demographic study, the internet useage in north america and latin america/carribean combined is roughly equal to the internet useage of europe.
Maybe you should be sure, who is the real minority before you make assumptions on numbers that are just made up.
I dont care about internet usage, we are talking about L2. I know there is a signifigant brazillian population because I know several brazillian clans and quite a few brazillian people. Somehow you made the assumption that signifigant meant some sort of majority which isnt the case.
My point was to remember south america is part of the same time zone as north america so that people remember that there are other L2 playing countries within these ranges of time.
You are really nitpicking now I find it amusing. Taking global numbers and european internet usage and somehow comparing that to the amount of people playing lineage 2 and why they arent a minority, lol you are so wild.
I did not compare with L2 at all. I am just questioning your numbers.
I know italians, greek and australian players. I also know american players, who are playing now (which is not even euro-prime and surely 8+ hours away from NA prime).
Please reread my OP, elven. I did not start the "euro vs. NA" nitpicking. I was just globally speaking about players, who can play and players who cannot play during peak hours. Where they live and why they cannot play in peak times is absolutely not my concern.
And to answer your earier reply about me just seeing it as a PR thing.
No, I do not see it as PR, I see it as fairness for the customer.
When I program something, I am telling the customer, how the program works. I am of course not giving out every detail on how the program works, but I will tell what features are there and what are not.
And I surely would not make the program working less effective during lunch break, without telling the customer.
I still believe, that an equal chance all over the day would be more fair and justified.
And I believe, that no ingame aspect should be tallied around bots in any way. If you do so, you kind of admit, that bots are an important part of the game.. and they should not be.
But that is a different topic.
well in all honesty, I dont really mind switching the drop rate I was just mad that you had to come in and ruin my warsmith thread where i asked people nicely to please leave bounty hunters out of it and you came right across the next post and tried turning it into a flame argument about whether bounty hunters should get mp regen skills. Anyway, now you know what it feels like to have someone ruin a thread when you just had good intentions and wanted constructive conversations.
Sorry, elf, but neither did you ruin my thread, nor did I ruin yours. We are stating opinions, and as much as I disagree with you, I do not hate you for your opinions. In game I would of course kill you on the first chance, but that is due to your elven heritage, not cause of your opinions.
And you're forgetting that not all players can automatically play in the peak hour time zone just because they're situated in America.
And no, you laid out a whimsical list of things they could have done and excluded the only reasonable option so that the second best thing, the idea you favour, would look better.
And you're forgetting that not all players can automatically play in the peak hour time zone just because they're situated in America.
And no, you laid out a whimsical list of things they could have done and excluded the only reasonable option so that the second best thing, the idea you favour, would look better.
The end result is I dont really mind either way, this was just over a personal vendetta.
And you're forgetting that not all players can automatically play in the peak hour time zone just because they're situated in America.
And no, you laid out a whimsical list of things they could have done and excluded the only reasonable option so that the second best thing, the idea you favour, would look better.
The end result is I dont really mind either way, this was just over a personal vendetta.
My dear pointy eared friend. For well over one year, I am the administrator and community manager of the german fansite for Lineage2. It takes quite a bit more than a double posting Elf to annoy me.
If you want to continue to make a fool of yourself, you are of course welcome to do so.
Wait, elvenaura doesn't have good forum etiquette (not quite TimeCop but...) but that is not a reason to just dismiss what was said.
Whimsical list?
Is it a good idea to try to make an event that feels profitable to most of the people playing but has as little affect on the economy as possible at the expense of fairness?
An even drop rate even across 24h (with about the same total number of pollen dropped) would have made the event less profitable to a larger number of people then it would have made it more profitable for (there are more people on during the peek times) right?
If the total drop rate is the same and more legit players get less than get more the 24/7 players must get more right?
This means that the discussion is (as I see it): Should NCSoft make unfair events to try to keep as much as reasonably possible of the rewards in the hands of legit players?
I don't like how people say it would be easy to fix, events that give bad rewards are disappointing (christmas trees anyone? :p). I wouldn't have liked getting 20 pollens even though that is better then what some people who couldn't play at peak times got, it would have been a pointless event for almost everyone.
My idea is just screw the economy, give lots of enchants and just let the castle lords turn off the manor for a couple of weeks - it would be disruptive but people get really annoyed (angry even?) when the world seems unfair. Lineage 2 is unfair enough as it is. The problem is my idea might be worse then just not having an event, no manored a.bone for two weeks? ouch.
NCSoft seems to want to disrupt the economy as little as possible. People complain what ever NCSoft does, pointless events (bad rewards), screwed up economy, unfair event, or too few events.
I liked what you were saying until the end. Turning off the manor for two weeks would hurt my income and crafting greatly but it would have a devestating effect on mat prices which is the part of the economy that is having the most problems.
Do you know how many mats the manor system adds? hundreds upon hundreds of thousands every single week in bulk quantaties.
theyre on , cuz they KNOW that there is a time with regular drops ...
more ppl would play and populate the servers without that stupid thing at other times. including me.
but its useless to play / hunt anything with a like 90% lower drop rate :mad:
lol, sure thing man. It couldnt be that they arent at work anymore after working all day or being at school all day...they probably just put it off on some assumed theory that drop times are higher at that time. Seriously, you are insane.
The problem is my idea might be worse then just not having an event, no manored a.bone for two weeks? ouch.
If you just made good drop rates for pollen (flat drop rates and it didn't feel pointless to the people who could only play for 10 hours during the event) the price of scrolls would drop to the point that castle lords turn off the manor and basic mat prices sky rocket. It happened during the pumpkin event (people also blow lots of stuff so want to craft more).
This is one reason why making a good event is so hard, we want good stuff but don't want that good stuff to be worth less even after everyone got lots of it for free.
An even drop rate even across 24h (with about the same total number of pollen dropped) would have made the event less profitable to a larger number of people then it would have made it more profitable for (there are more people on during the peek times) right?
This isn't even necessarily true. I don't know many people even in NA that can play straight through the entire peak hours. Most people just dip into that time frame while playing at other hours as well, thus normalizing the drop rate would net them with about the same amount as normal. The only people that would really suffer would be those that can play during that seven hour period every time, the effect would be slight on the rest.
Despite there being only one 'peak' for event drops, a server has many peaks in its daily cycle due to varying playstyle and a diverse playerbase.
If NC's desire was to make things more profitable when more players are online, they could simply have adjusted the drop rates to flucuate with server population directly. The current event drop tables do not do this, they only alter rates as a function of the time of day. If stopping automated 24h farmers was the goal this would clearly be the path to take.
That said, there's no reason game mechanics should ever hurt paying customers just to control a bot problem that should not exist in game. There should be a fair and even drop rate during all times of the day, both in normal gameplay and during events.
And as the kitten has stated many times, keeping the players uninformed about such drastic drop rate differences is completely unfair.
how do you know what people normally do? People 'normally' go to work or go to school. Most jobs and schools get out around those peak times. Most of us dont have all day and night to mess around we have to play after work or school so you are way off in this assumption.
how do you know what people normally do? People 'normally' go to work or go to school. Most jobs and schools get out around those peak times. Most of us dont have all day and night to mess around we have to play after work or school so you are way off in this assumption.
So you're suggesting as fact that all players on all timezones who play during this peak time, get off work exactly at 7:00 p.m. and can play L2 nonstop until 3:00 a.m. every day?
how do you know what people normally do? People 'normally' go to work or go to school. Most jobs and schools get out around those peak times. Most of us dont have all day and night to mess around we have to play after work or school so you are way off in this assumption.
So you're suggesting as fact that all players on all timezones who play during this peak time, get off work exactly at 7:00 p.m. and can play L2 nonstop until 3:00 a.m. every day?
No, I am suggesting most people work roughly 9am-5pm and school gets out roughly an hour or two earlier than that in any american time zone and since they cannot play at work or school typically that leaves one option...the peak times.
How do I know this? Because I drive on roads and I can tell the times people are on the roads and coming too and from work. Also, I know when people go to school because it is fairly standard around the country. The difference about my way is that it has actual evidence to back it up where your assumption just pulls data out of mid air to support your argument.
Strange. When I was posting data about total internet access, you scolded me, as those were not all lineage2 players.
Now you are using "people you see on the road" for your own argument ? Erm.. I would guess that at least 80% of the people you meet on the road each day, are not playing Lineage2 when they come home.
It seems to me, that you are at any time pulling a weak argument out of thin air, when you need it. You scold other people for lacking proof for their arguments, while you conveniently invent numbers as you need them, without ever giving anything remotely provable yourself.
It is sad to see such a total lack of rhetoric skills. I pity you, elvenaura. So much hatred for me, cause I had a comment on your thread, that you did not like, and now you are destined to spend your life in the attempt to derail a thread I opened.
How do I know this? Because I drive on roads and I can tell the times people are on the roads and coming too and from work. Also, I know when people go to school because it is fairly standard around the country.
Let's just assume you're right, and 100% of people do this (because after all, if they didn't then no one would be only dipping into that time frame). Last I checked the U.S. has 4 different timezones, leaving several people out of living in that magical timeframe and only dipping into it.
As for why I believe I know what a 'normal' person does, it is because I live in a country in which the people are people and not in fact robots who follow the exact same schedule every day. If someone wants to take a job during those peak hours, he should have every right to enjoy L2 in his own way as NC makes no indication that he will be penalized for his play time.
Not to mention the long lost practice of talking to people, which is why I can say with confidence that none of the NA players that I know ever play through that peak period every single day.
An even drop rate even across 24h (with about the same total number of pollen dropped) would have made the event less profitable to a larger number of people then it would have made it more profitable for (there are more people on during the peek times) right?
This isn't even necessarily true. I don't know many people even in NA that can play straight through the entire peak hours. Most people just dip into that time frame while playing at other hours as well, thus normalizing the drop rate would net them with about the same amount as normal. The only people that would really suffer would be those that can play during that seven hour period every time, the effect would be slight on the rest.
This isn't necessarily true either. We don't know what the drop rate would be like if it was a flat rate designed to give the same total number of pollen dropped but I doubt it would be better (EDIT: or the same) to hunt 6 hours at that rate than 3 hours at the peak rate and 3 hours at the not peak rate.
The people who can only play for 3 hours during the peak would be hurt a lot too. It is very hard for any one to say anything definite about server population but there are more people on during the peak times than other times right? The people who play for a bit during the peak times and a bit during non peak times over lap more during the peak times (some start before and some end after peak times) so upping the drop during the peak times helps the largest number of people and decreases the total amount of pollen dropped.
And as the kitten has stated many times, keeping the players uninformed about such drastic drop rate differences is completely unfair.
This I completely agree with, NCSoft has always been less communicative than I would like.
The people who play for a bit during the peak times and a bit during non peak times over lap more during the peak times (some start before and some end after peak times) so upping the drop during the peak times helps the largest number of people and decreases the total amount of pollen dropped.
Helping the largest number of people would be accounting for every peak, not just the largest one. There is quite a population hike at certain other times of the day (you see this easily as servers shift from Light to Medium, or Medium to Heavy during these times) It's just as easy to set the drop rate relative to the total number of people currently online.
That in my eyes would not be an ideal solution, as it still leaves people out of the loop. It would, however, be a better system than the current one as it would help even more people.
How do I know this? Because I drive on roads and I can tell the times people are on the roads and coming too and from work. Also, I know when people go to school because it is fairly standard around the country.
Let's just assume you're right, and 100% of people do this (because after all, if they didn't then no one would be only dipping into that time frame). Last I checked the U.S. has 4 different timezones, leaving several people out of living in that magical timeframe and only dipping into it.
As for why I believe I know what a 'normal' person does, it is because I live in a country in which the people are people and not in fact robots who follow the exact same schedule every day. If someone wants to take a job during those peak hours, he should have every right to enjoy L2 in his own way as NC makes no indication that he will be penalized for his play time.
Not to mention the long lost practice of talking to people, which is why I can say with confidence that none of the NA players that I know ever play through that peak period every single day.
Thats why the peak time was 6 hours long to allow each time zone to get some time in the peak zones.
Good point, two states slipped my mind. Now that I think of it Puerto Rico may be the 7th timezone (not to mention the east side of South America).
Now for argument's sake, let's assume that I am an Evil programmer who only wants to benefit the majority of players. I don't care one bit about the little guy, but I need to keep the highest amount of customers happy in order to keep getting them to pay me $15 every month.
I could use the current model to keep my NA market happy, and since they're my primary demographic that's a good thing. It would be foolish to underestimate the other parts of the market however, especially when NA is not a staggering majority. Let's also assume that my players are fed up with bots and do not want them to benefit in any way, even if changing things would help the normal players as well.
That is simply inefficient. If I wanted to keep 24 hour bots out of the way, I would gather information on each server and determine the lowest number of people on at any given time. If we assume that bots do in fact run 24 hours, I could say that most of the people who are online during these times are in fact botters. Thus as an Evil person, I could eliminate all drops during times when the server is at this number (or near it). As the population rises, the drop rate would as well at a decreasing rate to ensure that all servers have a relatively equal rate during played hours as well as to prevent items from dropping too often and flooding the economy.
What happens is that the drop rates are highest during the main peak hours. During the other high points of server population during the day, the drop rate is lower but not so low as to alienate my customer base. In fact if I'm subtle enough, they won't even realize that they're 2nd class players to me.
Unfortunately, most bots are not 24 hour players at all. Those are the easiest to catch, even farmer groups play in shifts to avoid simple detection such as that. The fact of the matter is that with a 5-7 hour peak system in place a bot owner just has to be aware of it and sign on during those hours. Now he has as many drops as any legitimate player who was able to play during the entire period, and the risk of him being caught is much lower.
My basic point is, the current system in place is not only unfair, it is also inefficient. To prevent botters from benefitting and keeping the majority of customers happy, there are better systems that could be used to benefit more players.
If a company respects their playerbase, they need to make drops equal at all times of the day. At the very least they need to make people aware of the drop times.
My basic point is, the current system in place is not only unfair, it is also inefficient. To prevent botters from benefitting and keeping the majority of customers happy, there are better systems that could be used to benefit more players.
Sorry to be so contentious but what might these be? I cannot think of any way to have a good event that doesn't jack the economy. I agree with your points, this event wasn't a good one as it is obviously unfair, but how to do better?
My whole post was describing such a system. To sum it up, it is a system that alters drop rates according to current population rather than times of day. This more accurately reflects the peak times for all servers (which do have different peak times, some servers have more Euro clans than others for example).
But really, nothing like that is even needed. A normalized drop rate would be fair and would not damage the economy, as the exact same number of event items would be dropped.
Let's say pollen dropped 10% during peak hours last event, and 1% at other times. If we change it to 5% (not worrying about math here, I realize it's not accurate, nor do I know the real numbers) over all hours we still have a decent drop rate yet everyone who plays can still participate.
If the rate is still too low, we could knock it up to about 7% or really even keep the original 10% (let's face it, the pollen event didn't touch the economy and overall no event has ever had a long term effect on the economy).
There's also nothing preventing the event team from strictly dropping consumables in great quantities (greater haste, swift pots, etc.). Even castle owners couldn't complain about something like this. Players without a pocket buffer would get a lot out of it, and if they're dropping in high enough quantities even players who don't want them can make a profit by selling the potions to other players.
You're also forgetting that just because people are from the timezones, doesn't mean they can necessarily play at the peak hours.
that topic has been addressed several times in this thread. The thread is to the point where people are just reading the last few post or everyone is just going in circles over and over. All the points to be made have already been made so I really wont be posting in here unless there is something new or interesting, later.
The way to hurt bots more and benefit the majority of players would be like this:
1. No event items drop, unless the server is serving at least 85% of the number of players, that was the overall top load.
2. The moment, those 85% are reached, the drops are working on a pretty high chance.
3. The moment, the player number drops below the 85% again, there are no more drops.
This would be a self regulating system, which would be more effective in doing that, what elvenaura was bringing up as thesis.
Of course, such a system would still be unfair but if it was said in advance to be that way, I would not complain.
I am not complaining about manor resets and those are at 5 AM in my morning, so I never get a chance to be online for it. But I know it and I accept it.
Once again - to the economy, it doesn't matter whether the pollen drops to people playing at 4 AM or people playing at 4 PM - so keep that arguement out, OK?
Everyone could see how ridiculous holding a contest that by default excluded all non-Americans was for the video and wallpaper competitons, so why is it so hard to accept that keeping the same players out of an in game event is equally idiotic?
Once again - to the economy, it doesn't matter whether the pollen drops to people playing at 4 AM or people playing at 4 PM - so keep that arguement out, OK?
Everyone could see how ridiculous holding a contest that by default excluded all non-Americans was for the video and wallpaper competitons, so why is it so hard to accept that keeping the same players out of an in game event is equally idiotic?
Sure it does. If there is 100 people online at 4am and 1000 people on at 4pm you are going to have 10 times more pollen introduced into the game.
NO1 is playing outside the times cuz it drops niente , nada , nothing , a fkk ^^ engage ur brain
I dont think anyone gets what you are talking about because you never actually type anything that makes sense. Please use some sort of sentence structure and/or punctuation and maybe I can respond to you.
She is saying that less people play outside of that 7 hour timeframe because the drops are less. To an extent she is correct, as during the event when that time rolled around I simply logged off. I know others that did the same.
How hard is it to take your brain the little step further? They know their averages of people online, so they can just adjust the pollen dropped to a total that is ultimately dropped, the question is ONLY who it is dropped to.
Once again - to the economy, it doesn't matter whether the pollen drops to people playing at 4 AM or people playing at 4 PM - so keep that arguement out, OK?
Sure it does. If there is 100 people online at 4am and 1000 people on at 4pm you are going to have 10 times more pollen introduced into the game.
So, that means the drops should be lower when more people are online, to prevent the event from ruining the economy?