(a) NC Interactive reserves the right to interrupt the Service from time to time on a regularly scheduled basis or otherwise with or without prior notice in order to perform maintenance.
(b) You acknowledge that the Service may be interrupted for reasons beyond the control of NC Interactive, and NC Interactive cannot guarantee that you will be able to access the Service or your Account whenever you may wish to do so. NC Interactive shall not be liable for any interruption of the Service, delay or failure to perform resulting from any causes whatsoever.
(c) NC Interactive shall not be obligated to refund all or any portion of any Account fee by reason of any interruption of the Service by reason of any of the circumstances described in paragraph (a) or (b).
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What you guys need to remember is just that because you agree to something, it doesn't necessarily make it legal. For example, you could sign an employment contract with a clause that states, "Should you be injured in the workplace, the company shall not be held liable in any respect" OR "I reserve the right to hit you around the head with a baseball bat whenever I feel like it and we will not be held liable for such action"
Although you have agreed / signed, these clauses are clearly illegal and as such a court would strike them out of a contract, at least in the UK.
When it comes to purchasing a product, if it doesn't work, it is not fit for purpose, as such you are generally entitled to a refund. The same applies with MMO's in my understanding, why would any sane person choose to pay for something that doesn't work.
but come on, the game was down for 1 day! if it was down for a week or 2 i'd want some time back myself, but, 1 day? shesh. ;)
As much as some ppl think, these NC guys are not in the business off trying to piss off the players who pay their wages. There was a 'thing' that they had to fix so we could all keep enjoying this game, they were not, i beliveive, out to wreak all your fun :p
keep in mind, it was only half a day out of one year+, im sure they are doing their best.
Actually I am pretty sure, that noone from the NCsoft staff was allowed to go home on the regular schedule, when the problem arised. They were all working as hard as possible on getting the problem resolved. The problem in itself was caused by a user(player), who exploited a bug.
Despite people saying so, it pretty sure was not some GM, who just pulled the trigger, so that whole NCsoft could have a birthday party for someone, while laughing at us.
How long was the total downtime ?
Less than 24h, but lets take 24h for arguments sake. That is roughly 1/30th of the month. So NCsoft "owes" us a freaking 50 cent. Be serious.
Well, I actually would challenge the liability of NCsoft on this matter.
Network services CAN break and accessibility CAN fail. And since there is no financial or physical damge done to anyone, I see no ground for any kind of lawsuit.
We are paying for a service, and we are acknowledging, that the service is NOT available 24/7. We know that, before we are signing the contract.
This is different from your company example. Workplace security IS a 24/7 issue. However, if the company writes in their contract, that an employee might be send home without salary, in times of low work, then that can be a legal part.
Actually I am pretty sure, that noone from the NCsoft staff was allowed to go home on the regular schedule, when the problem arised. They were all working as hard as possible on getting the problem resolved. The problem in itself was caused by a user(player), who exploited a bug.
You misunderstand what an EULA is. Its not there to give YOU legal protection, its there to limit the liability of the company for their service and software. It doesn't really matter if its legal to you or not, NCSoft is not obligated to give you a 24/7 working service, heck, what do you think service companies do in real life when they experience failures?
Sorry, unless you can show a significant deliberate neglecting downtime on NCSofts side, you don't have a leg to stand on.
Refund for what ?
Everyone hates downtime, but sometimes it happens.
When your telefone company blows up some relais stations, and you are unable to connect to the internet for a few hours, you cannot sue them either. Unless they were blowing it up intentionally, which I am sure, NCsoft did not.
It is the same as with not being able to log into a certain server at times, when they are more than heavy loaded. You are not guranteed, that you can login to the server of your choice at all time. You are guaranteed, that you can login to some server, most of the time.
You cannot get refunded for something that you did not pay for. In july, there were 4 hours of scheduled downtime and a couple more hours of unscheduled downtime... leaving hundreds of hours of uptime, which you did pay for and which you got.
Eh .. If You People Think It Sucked For You .. Cuz YOu Were Waiting To Play Your Game .. YOu COuld've DOne Anything Else In The Mean Time .. Go Out ... See Friends .. Or PLay Another Game If That's Alll YOu Do With YOur Life ... But Please Think Of The PeopleThat Were working On the Gam Issues .. They HAD To Stay There And WOrk On It .. It's Not Like They Were HAving FuN ... There The Ones That Should Be ****** Off Not The Players .. YOu Should Be GLad They Try To Fix Things ... They Could Have Jsut Went Home & Said The Hell With It .. We'll Fix it Another Day ..
Refund.....come on you don't need a refund and NC soft shouldn't have to give u one...they had an issue that caused some down time...they stayed late busted thier butts to fix it kept us posted pretty well on thier progress and fixed it. If you think that I can say this cause I wasnt' one of those that was waiting to play the whole time your wrong I sat threre and read all the post on the thread about it and jammed to L2 radio...hell I even played some poker online to pass the time...I am just glad they got it fixed in a timely manner and you all should be to....Refunds.....no need for them.
EULA - there to protect the company who made the software and not the user. Ever read a EULA? There are some that forbid you from uninstalling the software, there are others that say you are allowing them to collect any and all tracking information from your computer whenever you go online. It just allows the manufacturer the ability and option to say "No. In the EULA you agreed to this, this and that so... there ya go."
Also, as for the Devs - that is their job - to fix it, they get paid for that.
Don't want a refund. It happens - if you are that freaked out - then you need to get a life.
It is not as straightforward as you make out. A telecoms relay blows up and you lose internet access for a long time. You are then paying for a service that is not being provided. What if you couldn't connect for a year, and couldn't change providers as you're tied into a 12 month agreement with the initial company. In your example, you'd have to pay £20 per month (or whatever) for a service you are not using.
You can agree to someone breaking your knees and you wont sue for criminal / civil compensation, does it make a difference? Not in the least
Alot of the garbage that goes into either service agreements / EULA's / employment contracts is totally non-enforceable. It's just a deterrent that make's people think "Oh well, I guess I can't do anything, I agreed / signed some paper that says so"
As I said, I don't want a refund, I was simply providing some information to those who feel one is justified.
I'm not planning to do anything myself, it's just because people quote it like rhetoric saying "what ya gonna do?"
You can do something if you choose to.
Actually, if there was an exploit affecting the game, I would hold them more liable if they didn't bring down the servers and fix the issue. I'll paypal you 50 cents if it makes you sleep better, though.
Only kind of refunds I agree to is people loosing in game stuff/experioence due to servers going down without anouncement, if there was no anouncements (I wasnt in game at the time servers were brought down, so cant see it fro mycelf).
Actually it is NCS problem, they say a user exploited a bug? They should tell us what it was. Also, they should be alot more aggressive to these bots using 3rd party Marcos and other item reporting software. This is the exploit. Not that some ******* found a way to kill mobs without getting hit.
The Bots in Giran on Lionna sell the same things over and over and if you buy all they have, they stand and sit immedialty. There is no ingame macros for this. Yet for 3 month I see the same bots and YES I have reported them. I played the game. "give the exact name location and blah blah blah" that we always get form the macro answers of NCS GM's. They made it so we could only petition 5 times, and they don't even have the courtesy to reply back with a real person. EULA doesn't mean anything if people stopped paying. WE pay them for a service. Not the other way around.
If you take you car in to be repaired and I say that is 300 dollars. You ask what was wrong with it? I reply just some stuff, are you going to be happy with that? NO!
It is not as straightforward as you make out. A telecoms relay blows up and you lose internet access for a long time. You are then paying for a service that is not being provided. What if you couldn't connect for a year, and couldn't change providers as you're tied into a 12 month agreement with the initial company. In your example, you'd have to pay £20 per month (or whatever) for a service you are not using.
You can agree to someone breaking your knees and you wont sue for criminal / civil compensation, does it make a difference? Not in the least
Alot of the garbage that goes into either service agreements / EULA's / employment contracts is totally non-enforceable. It's just a deterrent that make's people think "Oh well, I guess I can't do anything, I agreed / signed some paper that says so"
As I said, I don't want a refund, I was simply providing some information to those who feel one is justified.
The difference is the monetary value.
I first posted the original EULA... more for fun than anything else, but when the value is less than $0.25 that particular part of the EULA is enforceable. If NCsoft had down time for 1 year and I had bought a years subscription, I might have a case. However $130 isn't a large enough amount to go to court over imo. Maybe on principle though.
they say a user exploited a bug? They should tell us what it was.
Baloney.
y not? The problem is now fixed.
They have no duty to list every fixed exploit. It would be silly and stupid to do so.
I agree, but something that beings the server down for a substantial period of time is different than something that take care of during maintenance, or even something that brings the server down for an hour on a random monday afternoon. It would just be curtious of them to give an explanation.
btw what happened to our discusion about how great blah was?
That obviously never happened.
ok I said it was great... you said it was not great, but only good. Then the entire thread was removed. which is kind of funny because right now mistryl is prolly complaining that moderator6 is deleteing her threads and not giveing a reason why.
You all know what? It's right that NCSoft isn't obligated to refund ANY time to our accounts. But, that sure as -_- doesn't mean they couldn't be cool and do it anyway. Even though they probably won't...
Everyone hates downtime heck I just reactivated my accounts and I couldnt play yesterday. I didn't get upset or search up a way to sue NC. I decided to go outside and take a swim then come back inside and work on a website and some other work related problems. NCSOFT knows that we pay them to play and use there services but if you want to continue playing this game today and tommorow and until the end of time well then they have perfect right to bring the servers down to keep the game running properly without bugs/exploits and other issues.
Next time go out and grab some sun ;) I'm pretty sure we could all use a darker tan :cool:.
You all know what? It's right that NCSoft isn't obligated to refund ANY time to our accounts. But, that sure as -_- doesn't mean they couldn't be cool and do it anyway. Even though they probably won't...
Here read this:
How long was the total downtime ?
Less than 24h, but lets take 24h for arguments sake. That is roughly 1/30th of the month. So NCsoft "owes" us a freaking 50 cent. Be serious.
I think it's in NCSofts best interest to NOT disclose what the exploits are. There could be other related or similar exploits out there that people would try to figure out if they knew what to look for. Besides, knowing the fixed exploits doesn't benefit us in any way whatsoever, other than satisfying curiousity. Honestly, would you feel any better if you knew that 2 days ago you could do action A, B and C and a weapon would drop on the ground, and now you can't? Who cares? (I'm not saying this was the exploit; I just used it as an example.)
As for refunds, good luck. NCSoft is in no way obligated to refund us anything, as they told us upfront that service can go down at any time. If you didn't agree to that, you shouldn't have pressed the "I Agree" button.
Actually it is NCS problem, they say a user exploited a bug? They should tell us what it was.
NCsoft will never share the details of an exploit, especially how it was done. Providing that type of information only endangers the game by giving ideas to other would-be exploiters.
ok I said it was great... you said it was not great, but only good. Then the entire thread was removed. which is kind of funny because right now mistryl is prolly complaining that moderator6 is deleteing her threads and not giveing a reason why.
ok I said it was great... you said it was not great, but only good. Then the entire thread was removed. which is kind of funny because right now mistryl is prolly complaining that moderator6 is deleteing her threads and not giveing a reason why.
nah I don't really want to discuss it cause Sir E and I will never agree on blah... I just thought it was funny that Moderator6 pwnd you... but I guess that isn't the case. :(