So roleplayers like to role play many things. How come they never role play death after they get pked? Usually you get a barrage of cuss words and threats instead of some Shakepearean rhyme about going to the underworld or getting a rez.
Because when you PK a roleplayer, you approach them OOC, so you get an OOC response. <enter usual lecture about RL antisocial tendencies displayed in PKing here>
I assure you that any roleplayer killed ICly will handle it ICly: They'll go quiet.
I'm not sure I understood all those acronyms. So what you say is next time I pk them I gotta shout something like:
"Beware for thine lives for the bandit comes to take it away!"
pk pk pk pk pk
"May thy corpses feed the beasts and fertlize yon lillies."
I'm not sure I understood all those acronyms. So what you say is next time I pk them I gotta shout something like:
"Beware for thine lives for the bandit comes to take it away!"
pk pk pk pk pk
"May thy corpses feed the beasts and fertlize yon lillies."
So, like that?
that'll do..... then you'll be instantly black listed as a RP Pker and a hunt will be on your head
(IC = In Character, OOC = Out Of Character, the terms wash a bit in L2 due to the nature of the game.)
Shouting something in pseudo-shakespearen English doesn't make you IC to these people - a roleplaying group in a non-roleplaying basically zones out anything that's not part of it, and if you want to be part of it, do the reasonable thing and ask: ICly.
Seriously, don't try to pass off a PK as roleplay, it never works and is always a schoddy excuse for being an [censored].
At least have the guts to stick up for what you do.
If you're playing football (soccer for the Americans) and some random person drives up to the field, gets out of his car, walks over, kicks you in the back of the knee and then in the head when you go down, was it a foul or an act of random violence?
If you want to kill someone ICly, see to it that you are even part of their IC sphere first - that means you'll either be available for further IC contact (and there is a roleplayer who ordered the character dead, and an in character reason for someone to want to kill him*), you have contacted them OOC first or you contacted them ICly before. You do not have an automated invitation to roleplay with anyone who indicates they might be a roleplayer, especially not if you only do so as an excuse to PK people.
If you actually want to roleplay a bounty hunter, find a group that is interested in an antagonist, and be prepared for a lot of fun if you manage to get the Standard Citizen Stick out of your back far enough (no affront to you, as implied by the name, most people have one of these).
My "IC" Lineage play is to kill anyone and everyone I can. So technically I am a RPer. They just get ****** because they choose to RP in a different fashion. I don't whine and complain about "pansy RPers" and how they choose to play the game. How 'bout a little reciprocation for how I choose to play the game?
Edit: I call it my RP style because I am not a serial killer psyco irl..... So I am playing a role. And it's fun.
(IC = In Character, OOC = Out Of Character, the terms wash a bit in L2 due to the nature of the game.)
Shouting something in pseudo-shakespearen English doesn't make you IC to these people - a roleplaying group in a non-roleplaying basically zones out anything that's not part of it, and if you want to be part of it, do the reasonable thing and ask: ICly.
Seriously, don't try to pass off a PK as roleplay, it never works and is always a schoddy excuse for being an [censored].
At least have the guts to stick up for what you do.
Okay exactly who are you (and others) to judge how one chooses to roleplay? So someone has an "evil" character...get over it. Heck, even I have an evil char! I also has one that I RP as a Honorable Person. To some, PK'ing is roleplay - they have to deal with the consequences, and yet they still choose to. Different chars...different personalities for each character.
Ya but thatR"RP PK" lies dead and the the ground and has droped their uber wpn thats when the real "RP" begins "I didn't mean to kill you .I was just kidding and can I please get my stuff back?" thats when I play Dirty Harry and say"you just made my day punk"
You don't go red if you can't accept that you might lose stuff. And if you do and then drop something expensive and complain about it, you are ******ed.
Karma is so named for a reason. I'm fine with it. Fortunately, I've only lost stuff to OE'ing, and never to PK count.
You don't go red if you can't accept that you might lose stuff. And if you do and then drop something expensive and complain about it, you are ******ed.
Karma is so named for a reason. I'm fine with it. Fortunately, I've only lost stuff to OE'ing, and never to PK count.
Um, I wasn't disputing the whining. Thats why I carry NG gear on my red, whoever goes red then drops uber gear and whines about it is noob. I was disputing the fact that some say pking isnta type of roleplay.
Who am I to judge? A roleplayer, and of course a player all the same. Reference to the (obscurely deleted) football sample. Just because you're on a football field, no random *** can come up, kick you and claim it was just a foul rather than an act of random violence - if he's not in the game, he's not in the game.
As such, in the L2 environment, you're pretty much yourself, especially when PKing.
The arguement that you're not a psycho killer in real life is true; everyone roleplays if they're suspending their disbelief even enough to believe a character is dying rather than "having its hit points reduced to zero and thereby being prevented from changing coordinates". In this context, everyone who picks up L2 is a roleplayer. Even so, that's like calling PvE PvP: true, it is a form of PvP, but it would still be ******ed nitpicking.
If you claim to only roleplay an evil character, that is trying to imply that you, as a player, harbour no bad intentions - and that, in turn, means that unless you're actually really a jerk, you'll find a vicitm that doesn't mind being PKed. The second you PK an unwilling victim, you are still roleplaying by the basic descriptions of identifying some function calls from character objects as spells and recognising some booleans as status effects like death and being shocked. You are, however, also, as a player, not as a character, PKing.
I'll illustrate this with a simple example: When we had a paladin and a thief in a good group and the thief kept looting corpses, the paladin eventually smacked the thief upside the head quite hard, knocking her out. Both the thief's and the paladin's player were laughing quite hard at the moment, because they'd both cooperated towards it, despite one character being hurt. If the thief had goaded the paladin on although the paladin did not WANT to snap, forcing him into a tough spot OOC, the game master would likely have reprimanded her. Likewise, had the thief done nothing bad the paladin noticed and the paladin just smacked her because the player knew she was a thief, a reprimand would have followed.
These simple examples, of course, don't help people to understand that even though it's just a game, their choice to play or not play with others, and how to interact with them, reflects on them as a person.
No, being a PKer doesn't make you a mass murderer, and nobody claims that. It just makes you someone who doesn't care about strangers' interests and who disproporitionally places his own amusement before others' interests - comparable to someone pushing ahead in a queue, being loud in a library, not helping an elderly person who dropped something pick it up etc.
As a player you make a choice to negatively interfere with someone's roleplay - it's like a roleplayer coming up to someone being excessively IC, it's just annoying and rude. Whether that is by stealing someone's RB*, training them, scamming them, or PKing them doesn't matter. Yes, you may. It is not at all a problem, it's allowed by the game rules - but as you know, rules don't make courtesy, nor in this case a mild sense of morals (although the word is probably too heavy for such slight behaviour - in the case of some things it's destroying weeks of work for your personal amusement, but a PK generally does not do this).
You make your choice as a player, so if you're roleplaying a character who would tend to random PKs and actually perform random PKs with him, you're being a jerk with a player just as much as someone playing a fervent believer and preaching to anyone who cares or doesn't care to hear would be one, just a bit more solidly.
* I don't know if you remember, but there was a case not long ago of two people who were with a raid group and waited for it to almost kill the raid group, then PKed the rest of the group and gathered the experience and drops for themselves, while their disbelieving former partymates lay dead on the floor.
In every MMOG I played so far, there were people asking for being able to be the bad guys. Especially with SWG, where I was with the Imperial forces, who claim to be the good guys, but essentially are the real bad guys, with their torture and mass murder.
However in any sane game environment, you are prohibited of being a bad guy in a roleplay situation.
You can only really roleplay a bad guy, if the good guys react on you, and that requires you being part of the game they play (yes, you can be on the same server, but not be part of the game).
People always use "but I am the bad guy" to go on a mass murdering spree, but not one of them ever takes 10 seconds to even think about, WHY their char is acting like that.
Most of the time, it is just the player wanting to wreak havoc, while their char is nothing but a means of disrupting the play of the others.
In SWG we had elaborate roleplay sessions with both rebel and imperial clans acting (roleplaying) together by some out of game rules, that we did agree upon. More than once, a group of other rebels or other imperials came close, blasted away at everyone in sight, including the ones, we had taken as prisoners or something, including spies, including innocent bystanders... and all with the comment of "they were the enemy".
Well, while that was perfectly legal by the game rules, it was disrupting our play. Yes, they could kill the enemies, but sometimes killing the enemy is not roleplay. Sometimes saving the enemy can be roleplay.
Also there are many players, who believe, that a rogue class deserves to be able to steal. They say, that they want to play a thief and thieves do steal. They conveniently forget however, that being able to steal would in turn require a full scale law enforcement possibility, for which no safe zones are possible.
A real roleplayer would never log off to escape a dangerous situation.
Just to clarify, I got no problem with random PKers. I do not care, if I get nuked by someone, who does not like me roleplaying (those type exists in bunches). But I do not like it, if those people then claim, that they were just roleplaying.
There can be roleplay reasons to PK someone. But most of the time, killing someone, that you not even know, is not any kinf of roleplay. Not even bad roleplay.
In a way, it is similar to LARP (live action roleplaying), where you got a bunch of players, which you simply cannot all control by gamemasters. At times, there are feraks among them, who believe, that talk is silly and weapons are the means of conversation. They also believe, that you can "win" a LARP. Well, that is true, but you do not win a LARP by killing everyone, who is not running away fast enough. You are winning, if you are having fun WITHOUT ruining the fun of the others.
Luckily with LARPs, you can just prevent idiots from coming a second time. You can shun them and ignore them and prevent them from having their crazy kind of fun on your expense.
That is on MMOGs usually done with dedicated RP-Servers.
I am one of the nicest people you will ever meet. I kill everyone I see in MMORPGs because I can. Yes, I'm not part of your perfect RP experience. So consider me more along the lines of a natural disaster. Those aren't controlled events, and they usually kill people that would rather not be dead.
Fact of the matter is that while you claim PKers have no respect for your style of play, everything you just said shows that you do not have any respect for theirs. It's a two way street. You can't belittle someone's play style like you just did and expect them to change at all, and in fact touting your whines like that will most likely make things worse. Play the game the way that makes it fun for you, but expect others to be doing the same.
On a side note, take a grammar class people. Commas are not supposed to be used every 3 words. It makes you look even more unintelligent when you can't use something as simple as commas correctly.
In the real world people die to accidents and people (sad, but true) get murdered and attacked randomly or for seemingly very bad reasons. You cannot shelter yourself from these things entirely in RL because they are a fact of life.
The fact that you cannot shelter yourselves from similar things in L2 gives the game more the feel of a "fully realized world" -- a greater sense of reality -- that adds a lot to the game for many people.
The fact is if you are a roleplayer in lineage 2 and you do not incorporate those around you (and their actions) into your RP, you are not really RPing the real lineage 2. You are trying to make your own little RP minigame out of L2 and ignoring the "bad parts" (in your opinion) and taking only the "good parts" (in your opinion.) The game is MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER so that you can interact with a more organically realized world, not so other people can fill in background noise and give you a warm fuzzy, yet never hurt you or interfere with you.
There are games which give you a controlled RP environment like Neverwinter Nights. L2 is not a game like that.
I certainly respect your endeavors to RP within lineage 2, but I think your expectations that people play along with your RP experience is perhaps unrealistic, because you are asking other people to "play it your way" -- when they never asked the same of you.
Fact of the matter is on my Perma, I do RP. "First time I went red on that char I tried to bleach him through mobs, people kept attacking me so I killed them. A fugitive must do what he needs to in order to survive. Though the countless acts of good he has done in the past, people still consider him a Chaotic pker, so that is what he has become. He came to resent people for it and now he makes other feel his pain."
Now what part of that isn't RP? Thus your argument that pking is not a type of RP in some respects is null and void. Thank you and have a nice day. :)
If your character chooses to hug trees...thats all well and good... just don't mind the arrow in the back. You chose to play in this OPEN PVP world, deal with it.
Fact of the matter is on my Perma, I do RP. "First time I went red on that char I tried to bleach him through mobs, people kept attacking me so I killed them. A fugitive must do what he needs to in order to survive. Though the countless acts of good he has done in the past, people still consider him a Chaotic pker, so that is what he has become. He came to resent people for it and now he makes other feel his pain." Now what part of that isn't RP?
He lost his gear long ago at the hands of a friend, which only put fuel on the fire of his insanity. He is in no grade gear because people either run or attack at the site of him. Neither of which are effective. He loots the corpses and use their gear against them.
I will be editing since I need to look at a post I'm responding to, so this goes one by one.
jjdddicicidsol: You can have anti-social tendencies and still be a very nice person. Nobody can be social all the time, and L2 is honestly a very healthy place to let them out (although FPSs or WoW would probably be even better); I see a lot of drivers that probably can't leave their stress at home and thus leave it on the road: That's dangerous IRL, L2 is not, kudos to you for finding a safe outlet so you can be nice when it matters to you. (My outlet is this forum, by the way. :p ) Regardless, you're still being a real life *** to a select number of people, so don't try to sweet-talk yourself out of it: You know they don't want to be PKed and you're turning over what they most likely think of as effort, and you're accepting that and proceeding anyway for a few scant moments of amusement, probably taking even more delight when they are genuinely upset by your actions.
Me? I'm not bothered when I get PKed, I either call friends for backup, or if I think I can, I come back to kill. If the PKer seems stupid enough, I'll red-bait to be sure he's over 5 and then strike: Gear and the whingy sound of justice are worth more than a few points of experience.
The difference between PKers and a roleplayer (as long as he doesn't go up to non-roleplayers ICly, and as you read my other post, you understand that I think that's also idiotic) is that the PKer is actively intruding on others and wrecking anything from 20 minutes to a few hours of perceived work for a brief flash of amusement. That doesn't mean you can't PK (hey, it's fine by the rules), and it doesn't, in fact, mean that you shouldn't PK, it just means you should have the guts to stand up to yourself and say: "Yes, I feel like being an utter [censored] today, so bite me."
What I can't stand are PKers that hide behind excuses, such as roleplaying, when a PK is always an act from player to player, thus the term player kill, rather than character kill. It's fine to be selfish sometimes, it's not fine to be selfish and claim those that won't indulge you are the selfish ones. ;) I'm not even saying you shouldn't PK roleplayers (and to be honest, you'll probably not know whether you're dropping a roleplayer unless you're targeting a specific clan or person you know to have RPed in the past), just that you should stop making up lame excuses.
Kitten is German, as may be apparent by her (his? I'm sorry!) name. In German, comma rules are more loose, so before you've tried wrestling down the German grammar, it's not really your place to correct her perfectly understandable English while you're still making major (note: this is sarcastic, it does never work on the net) booboos like connecting two unrelated sentences with an and. For that matter, it doesn't look good to speak in plural when in fact, between the two of us, only Kitten uses commas truly excessively (Entschuldige, Kaetzchen).
Editing now for the two other posters.
McLuhan: I don't expect anything in regards to how people should treat me in terms of attack. On a whole, I still die more during RP than from random PK, and I haven't been PKed once for being a roleplayer. In fact, I've only been PKed a grand total of three times.
All my other PvP deaths followed PvP of my own intiation, which was always either as a part of a clan war, mutual consent (by far the most frequent) or after being somehow affronted (once again a heavy word for a mild thing, but I don't know a better term: I'm refering to people taking my room, KSing, sweeping my seeded mobs to make the seeds disappear, etc.).
Of the maybe five training attempts I've been caught in, only one was successful, while I've died to my OWN trains maybe half a dozen times.
I honestly can't complain, and you won't find me whining if you drop me. You will find me letting of a major size rant, like above, if you try to mask your real life choice of being an [censored] (which I can brush off with a simple "what a jerk!") as roleplay. Because, and this is pretty much all I have to Thorn also even if you did roleplay, and most people do, as I explained, you were still being a jerk as a player by involving people in it who wanted no part.
I would just as much chew out a roleplayer trying to make strangers on the street who are obviously disinclined roleplay. Certainly, I sometimes start talking a bit cutesy on my artisan - but I try to pay close attention to not bothering anyone with it (this is, I will admit, easier with roleplaying than with PKing - but even for PKing you could find unbothered people; me for example).
Summary version of the babble: PK all you like, more power to you. Just don't expect anyone to like it, and don't try to think you're not being a RL *** while you're doing it (no matter how nice you are otherwisely - it's very possible to be an *** in one area and super sweet otherwisely: Have you ever met a nice girl on PMS?)
* These commas are, to the best of my knowledge, while closely together, correctly placed. As are the ones in the last sentence.
** These commas go here because this information is not necessary to understand the sentence. Did you know that?
So roleplayers like to role play many things. How come they never role play death after they get pked? Usually you get a barrage of cuss words and threats instead of some Shakepearean rhyme about going to the underworld or getting a rez.
*giggles* I actually do this alot... "Oh I'm dieing *stares into the light* I can feel the plains of my ancestors calling me in the wind... ohh wo is me....
It pretty funny since i'm no longer in an rping clan and can get a few laughs out of my clannies. People who take pvp so seriously shouldn't be playing this game. It is a game with pvp and I like it that way. I dont understand how alot of rping clans I run into are none-pvp based and neutral. How can they trully rp without pvp, I think pvp only adds to an MMO. My two cents ;)
so what if i pked a roleplayer and said, *smirks* now i can collect the bounty on your measly head *dissappears into the night*
Lol that would be cool and you would forever go down on my friends list. Give me a great laugh in rl. lol
Edit: at malinII you're pretty full of youreself. This a pvp game in all honosty a pker owes you nothing of an excuse but to just kill you. If a pker comes up to me I shrug it off but if I have clannies in the area or hell if they're on, I just call them in to have a little zerg fun time with the intruder in my area.
There's only one thing that I've noticed can really get my sibling ****** though and that's not being pked. The entire party can be killed off by a warring clan/ally and the person looks at her stops and saids "oh can't kill you, you're not worthy of a kill you're a buffer/healer/dwarf." She has sworn revenge on that person from now on and forever will hunt him down LOL.
How can they trully rp without pvp, I think pvp only adds to an MMO.
Totally WTB PvP-active RP clan. The best fun I ever had was in situations where there was active tension, fighting and so on. It's just that RP enriches PvP far beyond "omg I bbqpwnt you", from "OMG YOU'RE NOT ON THEIR SIDE JERK" and all the way into the area of "Hey, this is taking a pretty exciting turn". The same, of course, goes for PvP and RP - if you have a clan that can distinguish IC and OOC tensions well, there's nothing as cool as rivalling, even warring factions, because it's a source for endless content.
The problem is that most RPers are too casual to keep up with levels and such, though, so going un-neutral would be hard. In addition to that, many roleplayers have just as big problem with the IC/OOC line as other players, and even one of those is enough to start seriously horrible drama.
The, very, moment, that, you, speak, german, as, well, as, I, speak, english, you, are, more, than, welcome, to, correct, me, on, my, punctuation.
As a matter of fact, I can easily claim to write better english than many native speakers around these boards.
You are of course welcome to join the german boards and post something. I promise, I will not laugh about you... I got a bunch of users, who will do that for me.
Kommafetischisten Katze
(@Maline: Katze, kein Kater ;) )
I'm not sure I understood all those acronyms. So what you say is next time I pk them I gotta shout something like:
"Beware for thine lives for the bandit comes to take it away!"
pk pk pk pk pk
"May thy corpses feed the beasts and fertlize yon lillies."
So, like that?
LOL if you pk me in game & you say something like that, I will thank you for the laughs! (still be ****** about having to gain back that exp) :D
I vote you to be Canada's newest Prime Minister! lol
I speak/write basically all English, (a little bit of Italian) & you are 100% better writer in English then I could ever be.
You tell those people who are always trying to correct our punctuation. :D
You have no idea what kind of person I am. I am very social, have many friends, and actually go outside every day, unlike many people that play L2. And you are right, video games are stress relief, that's their entire purpose. What's the point in playing a game if it's no longer fun? The fact that you assume so much b.s. about me is, in fact, where all the fallacy in your argument comes from. I never attacked you, I merely stated that you argue points purely from your own viewpoint. I understand that some people want to play the game a certain way. I understand that it may not be the way that I play the game. Neither is wrong, and attacking people for playing the game in a manner that makes it entertaining for them because it doesn't fit into your "perfect gaming experience" is completely ******ed.
As for the comment about commas, it was not directed at anyone specific. It's something I've noticed through hundreds of posts in this forum and many others. Also, conjunctions (like and) are meant to join multiple phrases.
But this is prolly just gonna go in one ear and out the other, as they say. Some people are just too self-absorbed to actually consider what other people have to say.
Maybe it's becuase the majority of PKers I've come across are E-thugs. If they're simply roleplaying "i r eval i kill u 4 i r eval" then they just are terribly unoriginal at roleplaying and shouldn't even attempt it. Just should go back to "LOLZ I KIL U DUM NOUBSOUP!!!!11"
However, I'm open for any intelligible PKers or roleplaying ones that try to be creative.
So roleplayers like to role play many things. How come they never role play death after they get pked? Usually you get a barrage of cuss words and threats instead of some Shakepearean rhyme about going to the underworld or getting a rez.
I PK'd RPers for years on UO's Pacific server and I had quite the opposite experience that you are having. Maybe it's something that you're doing.
What makes you a roleplayer? Im just curious. I am a Chat Master at 2 other sites out of game and I am, on occassion, confronted ingame by situations that apparently piss people off. Like earlier today, I was in EG, threw my 2 cents into a conversation, typed an action *shakes head* and then proceeded to comment. Someone completely NOT involved in that conversation told me to 'go RP somewhere else'. This was completely OOC. Ingame does doing this sort of action condem you as an Rp'r?
I think the term roleplayer is not precise enough. After all as someone stated, we are all roleplayers once we start up Li2.
There are varies sorts of roleplayers in the game. From people who always act IC to people who try to play their character as they think their character would act. Some of those you will never notice to be rpg'ers as they only talk to their buddies, others like to provoke other players by talking in character with them.
Some only 'act' in character now and then. For example, I had a nasty preacher who got triggered by pk'ers. When he got pk'ed he would sermon the sinner and beg him to repent his evil deeds. Some of his victims loved it, others got mad as hell, most were just confused. But it was fun to do. Best thing, I did not feel at all bad for engaging PK'ers at involuntary rpg. They started it by engaging me in PvP. :)
Whenever my red kills a person I say, "Die for me, my lovely." Then I say "I envy you, for Death must be a sweet release from suffering." And run off in the Darkness.
Do you even know what anti-social is? You seem to assume it has something to do with having friends and going outside; let me inform you: It does not. It has something to do with your sense of the rules of society and their importance, disregarding them because you can't see the person you're bothering is anti-social, so save yourself your "I have more of a life than you" pattering. If you were really anti-social, you probablywouldn't be letting it out in a game, and as I said, I'm grateful for that. If you weren't so defensive you would have noticed that the adjective has always been followed by one of two little nouns indicating an isolated incident: Tendency or Behaviour.
I'm not attacking anyone, as you might also have realised if you weren't being defensive: I'm making a statement about what their action implies, which is pretty much unargueably true (you, at least, have not attempted to argue this in the least).
"And" is meant to join multiple phrases which have a close contextual connection and do not stand alone. You misused it, which was, as pointed out a minor mistake. An idiotic one to pick on, in fact, which is what I was saying: If you ever learn German, nobody will bother you if you can't memorise our comma rules, provided your sentences are still understandable.
I do, despite common misconceptions to the contrary, consider what others say. You've not argued anything I've said and just thrown random accusations around, which is why I explained again in greater detail what I meant.
It is up to you to go defensive at the sight of a simple term instead of looking it up; but I've saved you the hassle and explained what it means above. I hope it clears your misunderstanding and you'll take the time to read it properly.
It's not criminal, it's not forbidden - it's just very rude, and I hate people like you trying to tell me I'm being arrogant or close-minded when I'm pointing out the very simple fact: You're prioritising five minutes of your fun over hours or weeks of someone else's fun. You willingy provoke ruining someone's evening for a laugh when you PK.
That's allowed. It's the kind of game this is, and it doesn't ruin my evening when it happens to me.
That doesn't make it nice, so stop trying to act like it is.
PS: You can save yourself the livlier-than-thou crap too. Most people who play the game have a life, and L2 is part of it as a major hobby. There's nothing wrong with that, unless you have some sort of insecurity issue over social pressure.
PPS: Re: RPers - there's all kinds and flavours. People who use RP as a pretext to PK aren't playing a role, they're playing at putting together funny sentences in a failed attempt to "justify" the in game action that needs no further justification than "I felt like it, so bite me".
The difference between PKers and a roleplayer ... is that the PKer is actively intruding on others and wrecking anything from 20 minutes to a few hours of perceived work for a brief flash of amusement. That doesn't mean you can't PK (hey, it's fine by the rules), and it doesn't, in fact, mean that you shouldn't PK, it just means you should have the guts to stand up to yourself and say: "Yes, I feel like being an utter [censored] today, so bite me."
What I can't stand are PKers that hide behind excuses, such as roleplaying, when a PK is always an act from player to player, thus the term player kill, rather than character kill.
I'm not following that.
A PK can't be "intruding" on another person's playing because PKing is part of the game. I'm not saying that I want to be swamped in PKs every time that I log on, but PKing is a legitimate, albeit uncommon, form of gameplay in L2.
But what we are talking about here is roleplaying and PKing and I do not see why they cannot go hand in hand.
I agree that the vast majority of "roleplayed" PKs are little more than PKs looking for either an excuse or a way to further rile their target, but I feel it is entirely possible to have an in-character PK.
Also, I dont think that the distinction you are making about player vs character in the term PK is all that valid. The term more than likely originated in circles more inclined to view the character as little more than their "ship" or "man" than in circles where people assigned a separate entity to their character. That doesn't make the term specific to interaction solely on the player level.
A roleplayed PK in L2 is going to be few and far between. Has there ever been one? I'd be surprised if there was. It doesn't mean it can't exist. The guts isn't in admitting to being an [snip], rather in eating the penalty placed on one that would choose that path.
Woosdman: I already said what I think about who is a roleplayer; everyone is to greater or lesser degrees. The question is not whether or not you are a roleplayer, but whether or not you are roleplaying at a given moment, and if you are, regardless of your character's intent, what your own is. To say it less fancy: Are you PKing someone, or is your character killing someone? There's a mile wide difference.
Zhelevar:
I can agree with most of what you write, but not your last point. The in game penalties are designed to punish people who still intend to play the character; they are 100% meaningless to a permared. It is not a challenge, it is not a punishment. I've been red, and yes, I've been red with unsafe PKs (it was in C1, so no, I've never actually dipped my hands that deep in blood =P ). Even in C1, when it was a lot harsher, it was still not a problem at all.
It does, at least for me, all come down to someone not using a hobby of mine (and yes, roleplaying, no matter how clumsily is often executed, is still storytelling) to cover up for their own insecurity, dragging its name through the mud.
Roleplay your way, and others will RP their way. Telling others that they pk out of insecurity is a pompous assumption. And to say that they drag RolePlaying through the mud when they play an "evil" character is just plain stupid, get over it. Life moves on and people play their character how they choose to. If you don't like the kill or/and be killed world of Lineage 2 then go play some other game with a PVE server. But telling others that they have a personality disorder (insecurity is considered one) when you get pked is about the most butthurt thing a person can say. (I know you didn't direct your insecurity comment to anyone specificly)
(Pardon me if I am referring to the incorrect sex, MalineII)
I don't think (s)he meant it in the way you're understanding it, Thorn. (S)he didn't say that playing an "evil" character is dragging RP through the mud, I think what (s)he meant to say is that using RP as an excuse to justify random PK'ing makes RP look bad.
MalineII: I completely agree with you 100%, you make valid arguments and you convey your thoughts well. I wish I could make talk that nice...lol. I've never been very eloquent. Just can't seem to make what I say or type match what's in my mind. I have to concentrate really hard to make sense, hubby's always correcting me.