Theres your answer to the BS thats going on with the HUGE unbalanced and unpopular changes thats been done with Lineage 2. Not to mention the subpar ideas of creating dumb MMORPGs that have no selling point. Its like the company wants to implode, always nerfing popular classes to the point of unplayability, (for example the impending Sleep Nerf for C5).
They really need to start concentrating on what an MMORPG is at the heart. "RPG" being one of the basic elements of what MMORPGs are all about. They need to refocus on the storyline and not PvP all the time about which toon has more ****** than the other one and can gank which other toon more..bleh. Its rather childish.
Also, they need to start eliminating and deviate away from the concept of "gambling" for everything as a random factor. Gambling is NOT a virtue. It should not make the core of any operating dynamics that game environments should run on. They really need to focus on effort = gain rather than making everything based on pure chance. I'm not saying get rid of chance in some of the game dynamics but it should not be such a central prerequisite for game progression. This is how gambling works => Addicition => breakdown => withdrawal => Quit Game => Hate Game. They need to STOP this cycle of mental abuse. I think the Chinese government got some of it right (and no I am not Chinese nor do I support communism grr) when they banned/limited games with overt gambling mechanisms built into it. After all a lot of Chinese seems to have an affinity to gambling (yes its a stereotype but it seems to be true).
From C6 on, I think the future of L2 will be determined by how much RPG is infused into it.
No new source of profits is in sight. NCSoft’s next big product “Aion” will not be provided on a trial basis until late this year, while the game “Autoassault,” which debuted with big fanfare overseas, has lost the company a vast amount of money. A key problem is that consumers’ tastes have changed from massive multiplayer online role-play games or MMPORG like “Lineage” to simple and casual soccer, gun fighting and driving games.
this would contradict what you think, no?
if players want simple games, then the more RPG is infused into it, the less players will play if indeed the article is true.
which i believe it isnt. cant quite put my finger on it ... but something about it is wrong.
Storylines are counterproductive to traditional roleplay - most modern roleplay doesn't have you playing at all, and instead asks you to read a story without room for acting or improvising. Lineage II is, to date, the best roleplaying-capable online game I've played (although I'm still missing a guild that could match my tastes).
Of course, as such, if it were indeed addressed at roleplayers fully (that means, yes, a higher-rate server or one with a totally different crafting system, both would work), it would be a keeper. I can easily see a roleplaying server gathering a solid, loyal userbase lasting for years, with no crap like bots or farmers.
But alas, it's not meant to be.
Spudnik: What is wrong with that article is stating facts without basis. That's behaviour that belongs on forums, not in journalism.
PS: I'm aware that there is Ultima Online, which is apparently a bit of a wet dream for roleplayers, but it's horribly ugly. :p If I want to play a good RP session that's not pretty, I can just invite people over for P&P!
Interesting little article, I do how ever like this...
But NCSoft’s business results for the second quarter announced Friday were the worst since the firm was listed in 2000. It posted a net loss of W200 million, instead of the W20 billion net profit in the same quarter last year, its only one except for the second quarter of 2001, when it brought in U.S. game developers the Garriott brothers for a whopping W47.5 billion. Operating profit has been on the decline for seven straight quarters since the fourth quarter of 2004.
47.5 Billion for an American development tema? WOW, what a waste of money that was
All this means is that NCSoft is finally realizing that failing to listen to your playerbase and do whatever you want = less $$$$. With competitors, you can guarantee that they listen to their fanbase and that their suggestions are put in, for the most part, if they are rational.
Instead NCSoft puts in whatever they want, has some weird, skewed idea of what L2 should be, and the result shows - they are bleeding money.
Theres your answer to the BS thats going on with the HUGE unbalanced and unpopular changes thats been done with Lineage 2.
When I read the posts of the C5 testers, I thought, oh my what have they done. In C1 it was unbalanced like now, but there was a logical game system behind it. The numerous changes to the game mechanics are a desaster. If you think of role play, what sense has it that a specialised nuker is so slow casting Sleep?
Lemme guess you guys play nukers and are upset that things have changed to make you not so powerful. Why not wait to see how the game dynamics actually change on your server and not the PTS. I have read the updated changes as well to the game, and think it is about time some changes were made.
Lemme guess you guys play nukers and are upset that things have changed to make you not so powerful. Why not wait to see how the game dynamics actually change on your server and not the PTS. I have read the updated changes as well to the game, and think it is about time some changes were made.
I dont think the loss of money by NC soft can be blamed on the performance of L2 entirely, as last I check L2 has a steady player base here as well as in korea.
From the sounds of this simple and uninformative article the blame should be put in all the money they are wasting on realeasing games that are tanking such as Auto Assault, tabula rasa and so on.
I agree a lot of people are not happy with L2 right now and many are in that "if anything else good comes out I quit" thing. Those same people will quit, try something else for a month or two, realize its 10 times worse than L2 and come back.
I could say a lot more on this topic but Ill leave it at this, the article is useless without detailed financial data showing that a decrease on L2 subscriptions is to blame on the companies poor financial performance, without that we cant really say the changes done are unpopular enough to cause this.
Well, I'm a summoner/dwarf, so I have a right to [censored] about this joke of a balance, which really hasn't addressed some of the key problems at all. Putting twenty tons of new dental cement on a cavity does not make good treatment if the cavity was not cleaned first. =)
Anyway, self ownage much? He quoted you, stated his agreement (Quoted For Truth, or Quite True depending on who you listen to) and then expanded on it.
C5 has not stopped any of the key issues that were causing disbalance, so no real fix has happened. The classes were pushed into a balancing scheme that does not match up with their natural skillset one bit.
Storylines are counterproductive to traditional roleplay - most modern roleplay doesn't have you playing at all, and instead asks you to read a story without room for acting or improvising. Lineage II is, to date, the best roleplaying-capable online game I've played (although I'm still missing a guild that could match my tastes).
Spudnik: What is wrong with that article is stating facts without basis. That's behaviour that belongs on forums, not in journalism.
...P&P!
/agree, a lot of so-called-RPGs dont let you make any decisions at all, you're simply along for the ride. however, the computer game market defines RPG in different terms than the board game market. an RPG computer game is not defined as a game wherein people role-play. it is a game wherein a player uses an avatar (either that they choose or is chosen for them) that is broken up in discrete segments called "levels", ussually with some reference to "experience". this is different from the typical approach (of arcade and platform and first-person shooters) of breaking the bad guys and scenery into discrete segments called "levels". also, RPGs are not quite so clear on when endgame occurs, when your avatar reaches maximum level, have you "won"? of course not. so ussually there is a storyline involved, and once the storyline is completed, the game is over. L2 has no storyline, other than the history of the world. we make our own storylines as we play. this is a "true RPG", in that we play the part of people in clans, fighting for scarce resources, using our character's motives to make in-game decisions. adding more story to the world background would not detract from this. but i am against adding randomly generated personal storylines to characters becasue the player lacks the imagination to make up their own (player storylines are ALWAYS better than a limited batch of game-created ones).
PS: P&P?
thats not true. people always say that every chronicle. i dun think they meant its the last chronicle, as in, no other chronicle will come, but rather that its the most recent chronicle.
thats not true. people always say that every chronicle. i dun think they meant its the last chronicle, as in, no other chronicle will come, but rather that its the most recent chronicle
You must have missed the announcement made by NcSoft then.
Only way to save Mmo's is to stop buying cookie cutters. Masses need to form and push EA for a true 3d Ultima Online then everything would be ok. NO MORE KOREAN COOKIE CUTTERS FOR YOU!
Woori Securities analyst Lee Wang-sang attributes the company’s poor business results to fierce competition. But he still has confidence in the company, saying it will soon return to the glory of its heyday if management does some soul-searching and is determined to implement reforms .
I think most people missed the most important part of that article. L2 is a great game. But you can't design a game in one little part of the world and expect it to be #1 all over the world. L2 would dominate the L2 market if they developed the game diferently in different markets. Yes the core of the game should be the same everywhere. But they game play of Korean players is vastly different than the NA market.
Instead of making the NA player base feel like the game is a leftover from Korea they should let a dev team in Na taylor the game to the NA market. They should also advertise the game. I still think this game would have been much more popular if they had advertised it worth a dam.
But it looks as though C5 will actually be the last of the big updates. So I predict a slow painfull exodus after C5 to the next game to come out.
Although NCSoft may not be increasing profits right now, I think saying they are in trouble is possibly pushing it too far.
Check out this:
NCsoft® Corporation (KSE:036570.KS), the world’s leading developer and publisher of online computer games, today reported second quarter 2006 sales of KRW (Korean Won) 85.5 billion (US$88.6 million), operating income of KRW 1.7 billion (US$1.8 million), pre-tax income of KRW 4 billion (US$ 4.1 million) and net loss of KRW 200 million (US$207,000). Compared to the previous quarter, sales increased 10% while operating and pre-tax income declined 81% and 61% respectively. Sales for Q2 increased by 7% from the same period last year while operating and pre-tax income declined 90% and 79% respectively year to year.
Sales were boosted by the successful launch of Guild Wars Factions™, which added to the already stable sales base formed by Lineage® and Lineage II. In Q2, the Guild Wars® franchise surpassed two million account activations worldwide and became the number one game in both North America and Europe. However, operating income saw a downturn due to the one time write-off (approximately KRW 12.6 billion or US$13.1 million) of costs related to sluggish sales of Auto Assault®, released in North America and Europe during the second quarter. Excluding this write-off, both operating income and pre-tax income grew by 64% from the previous quarter while operating income and pre-tax income declined by 17% and 11% respectively from the previous year.
Doomsayers (those outside NCSoft) or Spindoctors (those within NCSoft)... between the two of them, there's enough market-babble to bamboosle users into believing just about anything but the truth. I never listen to that tripe.
I think L2 is great, ok some classes need some work, Warlords are still underpowered in pvp. BUT what concerns me, is the C5 is the last big update. If thats the case, i dont see any point in carry on playing.. When i started this game in beta, we were told there were 12 parts... OK time will tell. But im still disappionted.
Theres your answer to the BS thats going on with the HUGE unbalanced and unpopular changes thats been done with Lineage 2. Not to mention the subpar ideas of creating dumb MMORPGs that have no selling point. Its like the company wants to implode, always nerfing popular classes to the point of unplayability, (for example the impending Sleep Nerf for C5).
Actually, I just finished going over the details of the Q2 earnings release and conference call, and NCsoft has revised its guidance for Lineage and Lineage 2 sales/revenues upwards.
This was quite surprising - one analyst actually asked CEO Tak Jin why this revision took place, and he replied by saying that:
- The Lineage series of games continues to defy typical drop-offs in MMO subscriber numbers over time, having a very loyal customer base.
- Their initial expectations were that new Korean MMOs introduced in 2006 would lead to subscriber losses, however this did not eventuate and Lineage revenues are still holding strong, with their competition actually being quite disappointing in some cases, and in other cases like Webzen (with SUN) are having issues getting their product to market in a timely fashion.
So while their have been some documented reports of Korean posters being unhappy with some of the balance changes made in C5, the reality is that subscriber numbers have not been impacted by it, and you could argue that such complaints are no different than what you typically see from gamers on the forums of any MMO released.
Lemme guess you guys play nukers and are upset that things have changed to make you not so powerful. Why not wait to see how the game dynamics actually change on your server and not the PTS. I have read the updated changes as well to the game, and think it is about time some changes were made.
Nah I'm not into the caster thing actually and have tried it.
lineage 2 isn't a bad game. i think it may be under-marketed.
I started playing in January 06. Just 8 months ago.
I've found the game to FAR exceed my expectations. The open architecture--the tension of open pvp--the absolute beauty of the scenes. This game is AMAZING.
It is NOT perfect.
It is pretty spectacular. I seem to have different expectations of the game and of NCSoft than many who are more hard-core mmorpg'ers or those who have played 2+ years since beta....I love the game and have never even experienced the top-end content!
Fascinating. Not perfect....but pretty amazing.
I will play as long as subscriptions are available. I will adjust to the game's version of reality...just as I had to when I first started. That's why it's a game (imo).
If it was real life, crap would be broken, the government would be too intrusive, someone would be taxing it, and there would be terrorists trying to destroy it for religious reasons.
I don't want "real life" in the game--I want a game.
Naive? Yup. And one of the places in our world where that is still okay.
GL to NCSoft--GL to Lineage 2. I'll stick as long as they do.
Their initial expectations were that new Korean MMOs introduced in 2006 would lead to subscriber losses, however this did not eventuate and Lineage revenues are still holding strong, with their competition actually being quite disappointing in some cases, and in other cases like Webzen (with SUN) are having issues getting their product to market in a timely fashion.
Been to DE Villiage on Hinde lately? Nothing but new accounts named GSKLHD234235 with noobie NPC buffs all over the place. Of course the subscribers are holding strong - L2 is a botters wet dream.
As for othe storyline part - they throw out something with each new chronicle as a part of the story of Aden, but then they leave it there. They don't develop it any further at all until the next major update. Then it's lather - rinse - repeat.
Or should I say - buy SS, grind, sell mats, buy SS, grind, sell mats, repeat 50 times - maybe siege - repeat. This is a MMOG not a MMORPG.
Still - totally addicted to it. Not for the game - but the people I know who play it.
lineage 2 isn't a bad game. i think it may be under-marketed.
I started playing in January 06. Just 8 months ago.
I've found the game to FAR exceed my expectations. The open architecture--the tension of open pvp--the absolute beauty of the scenes. This game is AMAZING.
It is NOT perfect.
It is pretty spectacular. I seem to have different expectations of the game and of NCSoft than many who are more hard-core mmorpg'ers or those who have played 2+ years since beta....I love the game and have never even experienced the top-end content!
Fascinating. Not perfect....but pretty amazing.
I will play as long as subscriptions are available. I will adjust to the game's version of reality...just as I had to when I first started. That's why it's a game (imo).
If it was real life, crap would be broken, the government would be too intrusive, someone would be taxing it, and there would be terrorists trying to destroy it for religious reasons.
I don't want "real life" in the game--I want a game.
Naive? Yup. And one of the places in our world where that is still okay.
GL to NCSoft--GL to Lineage 2. I'll stick as long as they do.
Hmmmmm, very interesting read. You are in HELL, for sure.
I wish you could give somebody a cookie (Or a gold star...). OH man a cookie count would great !
That figure speek for itself, btw they droped even more players in korea.
Why? becose most is tired of the grind, they never liked it, why did they like L2? Becose they like the graphic and so on, not truly the game itself becose the game got more flaws then any other MMO out there.
Most of htem just sticked there till beter games came out, and so it have, and you can easely see that on the numbers of players.
"Any other" is a harsh overstatement - the grind is really what makes L2 good, the problem is that it's so far from its purified form that nobody can really enjoy what makes a grind environment fun.
When botting and ebay run rampant, and when people play the game for its mediochre-at-best PvP rather than the main chunk of the content (PvE), the game simply goes ugly.
Having a backup game is always a good idea. I really enjoy Cabal (although I'm a hopeless combo newb, I can't even get 13 consistantly >.<) for my backup at the moment, and I'm not going to bother with Lin2 until this mess is sorted out.
It's like good friends: You can't have only one and expect things to always sail smoothly.
In the case that a NCSoft exec is reading this. The reason that your popularity is down is because of poor game control and customer support. No one, including myself, will purchase a technical item (auto, boat, computer, game, food) from a business that they have already had poor customer service from.
In this case it is a game that you are selling. Get the game back into being a game. Remove the cheats & professionals. Take care of your customers. It takes money to make money - use the people that you have to make a difference or hire someone else. If NCSoft does not make a change in how they have been doing business then they cannot expect their customer to make the change to one of their new games.
There are many people playing L2 - it's the best game on the market as far as alot of us are concerned - but the way the game has been managed has caused many people to leave for other games and the return latter then leave again. If it were managed correctly you wouldn't see so many hot and cold players.
Make the game like the box says or risk that players in the future will see the NCSoft logo and determine that the game is managed poorly just as/was L2.
Why can I go to any area of the map and see botters and professional adena sellers? As soon as a better game that is produced by someone else arrives I'm done with L2. Judging by NCSoft's losses, many people have already found a better game.
Age of Conan and Phantasy Star Universe are due out sometime soon so I could really care less what happens to L2 past C5. MOST of the 'loyal' subscribers will tell you they still play because of in-game friendships, NOT because the game is good. I mean this game is great, it could easily be better but its still great as is however the game is neglected by NC Soft in my opinion. Its a [censored] golden egg-laying Hen only NC Soft forgot to feed the poor hen and its dying of starvation. Starvation for support, starvation for Events (at least give NA just as many events as korea and japan for christ's sake), and starvation for MUCH NEEDED FIXES. TOO many common bugs still exist and its simply due to programmer incompetence and simple neglect of the player base. Why give us a PTS and not even take our suggestions into account? Its a WASTE of money and a waste of time. Don't give us a PTS to tease us for C5, just give us the [censored] FULL update. PTS is a joke, NA events ae a joke, NA customer service is a joke, and lately NC Soft as a company has becomethe center of jokes. GET A [censored] CLUE NC SOFT, lol
The BBB reports on members and non-members. If a company is a member of the BBB, it is stated in this report.
File Open Date: April 2004
TOB Classification: Professional Services (General)
BBB Membership: This company is not a member.
Customer Experience
Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to failure to respond to one or more complaints and or two or more otherwise unresolved complaints. However the business has resolved most complaints presented to the bureau.
When considering complaint information, please take into account the company's size and volume of transactions, and understand that the nature of complaints and a firm's responses to them are often more important than the number of complaints.
The Bureau processed a total of 59 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 59 complaints closed in 36 months, 27 were closed in the last year.
Advertising Issues
Resolved
1 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.
No Response
1 - Company failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.
Contract Issues
Resolved
1 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to the BBB.
4 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.
Unresolved
1 - Company failed to resolve the complaint issues through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.
No Response
1 - Company failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.
Billing or Collection Issues
Resolved
1 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to the BBB.
2 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.
2 - Company resolved the complaint issues, but not within the Bureau's timeframe.
Administratively Closed
1 - BBB determined that despite the company's reasonable effort to address complaint issues, the consumer remained dissatisfied.
Sales Practice Issues
Resolved
1 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.
Unresolved
1 - Company failed to resolve the complaint issues through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.
Administratively Closed
2 - BBB determined the company made a reasonable offer to resolve the issues, but the consumer did not accept the offer.
Delivery Issues
Resolved
1 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.
Unresolved
1 - Company failed to resolve the complaint issues through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.
Service Issues
Resolved
1 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to the BBB.
No Response
1 - Company failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.
Customer Service Issues
Resolved
2 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to the BBB.
12 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.
1 - Company resolved the complaint issues, but not within the Bureau's timeframe.
Unresolved
1 - Company failed to resolve the complaint issues through the BBB voluntary and self-regulatory process.
Administratively Closed
5 - BBB determined the company made a reasonable offer to resolve the issues, but the consumer did not accept the offer.
2 - BBB determined that despite the company's reasonable effort to address complaint issues, the consumer remained dissatisfied.
No Response
7 - Company failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.
Product Issues
Resolved
3 - Company addressed the complaint issues. The consumer failed to acknowledge acceptance to the BBB.
Refund or Exchange Issues
Resolved
1 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to the BBB.
No Response
1 - Company failed to respond to the BBB to resolve or address the complaint issues.
Issue Not Defined
Resolved
1 - Company resolved the complaint issues. The consumer acknowledged acceptance to the BBB.
thats not true. people always say that every chronicle. i dun think they meant its the last chronicle, as in, no other chronicle will come, but rather that its the most recent chronicle.
people were thinkin same about c4 btw.
They've already posted a confirmation about this.
There will be no more player expansions under the name of chronicle. However, that does not mean there will not be any more expansions. There were supposed to be 12 in total, and we're only at five.
Funny, I posted about NCSoft's BBB report, and the thread got deleted.
Then I posted a question about an alleged employee response (turns out it really was an employee, but one who didn't use his brain at the time) on ripoffreports.com, and it got locked by a weekend board mod who apparently had a large branch shoved up his ******. The thread then got unlocked after a polite pm to Mistryl.
What I have learned/confirmed from this experience:
a. NCSoft does not listen to players
b. NCSoft would rather sweep their problems under a rug than deal with them
c. L2 board moderators abuse power by selective deletion and modification, choosing to only allow posts that shed a positive light on their image.
d. L2 board moderators would rather lock a thread that asks a legit question then give an official a chance to respond, even though there was NOTHING in the thread to indicate that I "disliked" NCSoft, and I even went so far as to emphasize in bold red text that the post was not intended to flame NCSoft but to ask a legit question.
but then of course, I already knew this...I don't even know why I bother. Meh, I'mma go hang out on another board that has 10x the number of members this one does.
Fair enough but people like you sound like those that say they're quitting "And I mean it this time" then show up a couple of weeks later in game. It loses it's meaning.