ok havent actually done the maths on this so ill write it as i go
i'll admit im not too good at maffamatikz but particularely statistikz so if anyone else wants to play with the numbers feel free
it's assumed that nothing effects the land rate of stun except skill lvl, target lvl, resist buffs, con and resist armor but ill list buffs just in case
not sure what the results will be but it might show what dwarfs have to work with and the possible bonii of enchanting skills
legend
A=armor crush
H=hammer crush
S=stun attack
c=crit (stun seems more likely to break on a crit)
n=failed stun, any other number represents the amount of hits before the stun broke
Dwarven stun test
unbuffed vs a lvl 73 SE with +4 con and BW robes
dwarf wearing tallum robes with a meteor show with focus
done over 2 days in case that matters
day1 day2 day2 (continued)
A H S A H S A H S
n 2 n n 3 1c 3c n n
1 5 6 2 n n 1 n n
n n n 6 3 5 n 5 5
6 2 n n 3 n n n n
n n n 4 n n 1 5 n
1 1 5 n 2 n 1 3c n
n 1 3 1 n n n n n
n 4 n n 1 n 2 1 n
n n n 4 4 n n 1 n
n 2 1 n 5 n n 1 1
n 2 n n n n 3 n n
n 1 5 n 1 n 6 2 n
n n n n n 4 5 n n
n 2 n n n n 2 n n
n 2 n 1 n n n n n
n n 1 n n n
2 n n n 1 n
2 5 n n n n
3 n n n 2 n
n n n 1 n n
n n n n 6 n
n n n 2 n n
after a few hours of that i decided to try a +1 hammer crush someone buffed me haste and zerk so i decided to see if attack speed or pattack effects land rate
+1 hammer crush
round 1 buffed with zerk and haste
nn1nnn2213321163n12n332n556nnn32n1n22n2nnnn3n13
ok calculator time
first try. 61 stuns attempted for each skill
Armor crush
cost 65 mp 254 hp
23 "lands"
37.77% land rate
2.609 average break rate
Hammer crush
cost 83 mp
30 "lands"
49.18% land rate
2.6 average break rate
Stun attack
cost 37
12 "lands"
19.67% land rate
3.9 average break rate
+1 hammer crush tests 47 attempts
buffed with zerk, haste and full SE melee buffs
28 "lands"
59.57% land rate
2.54 average break rate
unbuffed
25 "lands"
53.19% land rate
2 average break rate
conclusion
actually the land rate is more acceptable than i thought it would be.
the real problem there seems to be the break rate, i suspect its about an average of 2.5 hits to break a stun but the numbers are too small to really see
stun attack actually has a reasonable land rate especially if you consider the mana cost and may explain why high lvl dwarves use it apart from "its the only other skill i have"
according to those figures buffs do effect land rate unfortunately once again the numbers are too small and this may just be a deviation
if i had to complain about 1 thing it would be Armor crush.
since we are averageing 2.5 hits to break a stun and armor crush doesnt use SS on the first swing (see my post in technical issues) the skill verges on useless
if anyone wants to add more or do their own trials i would be interested to hear more
That all mobs have different modifiers about how stun hit, some stun hits a lot, some stuns never ever hits. And it don't seem to be about HP PVE vise.
PVP it's all about con for sure, also if they got the resist buffs and so on. Wuld be intresting to see how much the dwarven stance keep stun off later in C5 ^^.
well for pve you can generally divide the land rate by anywhere from 2 to 3
i remember stun used to work pretty well in pve at lower lvls but that was a few chronicles ago
All i can say is some people take this game way more seriously than i do, nohing wrong with that at all, but i could never sit down to figure something out like this. I like it to much for stress relief not stressing me out and this looks stressfull :) I am so glad there are people out there that can figure this out for me :)
Armor crush can use SS on the first try, you just have to apply the SS while the animation of armor crush is going...ie when you see the red glow around your blunt. Yeah the land rate is ok but thats without anti stun sets/jewels and buffs. They make those skills land....rarely. If anything my problem with armor crush would be the effect of hex+gloom only applies when the target is stunned. If stun so happens to break then the effect is gone with it, kind of makes it a waste to use 254hp(340hp in c5) to crush a target only for it to break in the next hit.
One cool thing about armor crush is that it can skill crit for 2x dmg. I've seen this happen often in c4, but they boosted skill crits in c5 so it will work even better.
I usualy aply the following rule: if its an Elf or Darkelf stun them, Human mages can be stunned reasonbly, Human melee and Orcs are hard to stun. Archers are usually to fast to stun with my stubby legs. :mad:
Greatest drawback is the fact that stun breaks so easily.
This is not taking into account Armour set bonusses.
All i can say is some people take this game way more seriously than i do, nohing wrong with that at all, but i could never sit down to figure something out like this. I like it to much for stress relief not stressing me out and this looks stressfull I am so glad there are people out there that can figure this out for me
to be fair, the fact i done 61 trials and not 100 or 1000 should clue you into the fact that i got bored pretty quick
Armor crush can use SS on the first try, you just have to apply the SS while the animation of armor crush is going...ie when you see the red glow around your blunt. Yeah the land rate is ok but thats without anti stun sets/jewels and buffs. They make those skills land....rarely. If anything my problem with armor crush would be the effect of hex+gloom only applies when the target is stunned. If stun so happens to break then the effect is gone with it, kind of makes it a waste to use 254hp(340hp in c5) to crush a target only for it to break in the next hit.
yeah im gonna macro it and see if i can get the SS to load
as far as i can see its really not worth useing armor crush.... ever
like i said the land rate is ok but haveing it break on average after 2 hits makes it almost useless in pvp and completely useless in pve
good to see NC raising the reasonable 250 hp cost on the skill since we all know 99% of dwarves are +5 con, wearing tank armor with a health weapon :/
after doing some pvp trials in the arena ive come up with this pvp strategy for third class dwarves
if you are fighting a healer use hammer crush and stuan attack as soon as they recharge
if you are fighting anyone with high con use only hammer crush
if you are fighting a mage or archer just give up
pretty sad that the first offenssive dwarf skill in 30+ lvls is completely unusable
i was kinda hopeing the land rate in pve was abit more reasonable, i mean could anyone really complain in armor crush had 100% pve land rate?
yup but considering it lasts for on average 2.5 hits and it costs 250 hp. if it lands you basically do about 4-600 damage but considering it rarely lands it makes it pretty much useless