Yesterday in a vent conversation, someone said the the EULA was changed so that Account Sharing is no longer a violation of teh rules, is this true?
The User Agreement has not been revised recently. You can always check the pop-up after logging in, or this web page (http://www.plaync.com/help/eula_lineage2.html) for the date the User Agreement was last modified. Both the User Agreement and the Rules of Conduct (http://www.lineage2.com/legal/rules.html) are clear that account sharing is a violation:
You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of buying, selling, trading, sharing, or transferring access to any Lineage II account.
so i take it that guy with the first level 75 on the NA servers got banned right? i mean since it was publicized about how he shared his account with another person thereby enabling near 24-7 play????
You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of buying, selling, trading, sharing, or transferring access to any Lineage II account.
Im sure if people are sharing accounts to the point they are playing 24/7 to level toons then it goes against EULA.
I guess a husband and wife sharing accounts would also be against EULA though... since it says :
"You may not advertise the intent to or commit the act of (...) sharing (...) any Lineage II account"
Im sure every husband and wife out there does it. Two boxing the others buffer, using the two accounts for open/buy sops.... etc. But Im hopping that they would have some common sense and not ban them.
But EULA is EULA and you never know. You migth see someone getting banned for saying "Oh Im using my wife's SE to help level my SH"
I have a suggestion:
Immediate family should be able to share accounts. EULA should be changed. Thats my opinion.
People tend to forget that the EULA is to protect NCSoft, not the player. Whether or not anyone ever gets banned for account sharing is completely besides the point. Having this rule is place protects NCSoft from having to deal with the "I let so-and-so play my account and now it's stripped." complaints. They merely have to say "What you did was against the EULA so we cannot help you."
People tend to forget that the EULA is to protect NCSoft, not the player. Whether or not anyone ever gets banned for account sharing is completely besides the point. Having this rule is place protects NCSoft from having to deal with the "I let so-and-so play my account and now it's stripped." complaints. They merely have to say "What you did was against the EULA so we cannot help you."
Gues your right,
They dont really care if you share your account as long as you dont go complaining to them that yoru account got stolen.
Guess all L2 addicted husband and wives out there can continue to share there accounts without any fear of being banned. Hopefully...
either way account shareing is COOL and 99% of clans do it
And that is, where it becomes cheating to me.
If people in the same household share the account on different chars, I don't care.
If a friend logs in the account of another friend to get back that item, he had lent, it becomes borderline at best.
But clans, who got regular "public" accounts, with buffers and rezzers on them, are disgusting and should be banned on the spot.
If the Overlord buffer is not online for the siege, then he is not online. Period. If you want them online, call him on the phone, go to his house and wake him up, but simply logging on his char is outright CHEATING.
wasn't it mistryl that said basically they dont care about account shareing unless its for illegal means i.e adena selling
either way account shareing is COOL and 99% of clans do it
It was Spam that said something about this, but I don't remember the exact quote. It was more like that account sharing wouldn't trigger an investigation, other things would.
It was Spam that said something about this, but I don't remember the exact quote. It was more like that account sharing wouldn't trigger an investigation, other things would.
he basically said they wont ban for account shareing unless ppl do so for other reasons (i can only assume adena trade)
he then went on to say that if the account is stripped or recalled you are SOL
Beacuse NCsoft can pick for themselves, which rules they want to enforce with what ressources.
Pick and choose would it be, if they decided to enforce account sharing on orcs only and botting on dwarves only. Or all rules on char starting with the letter S in their name.
As long as they enforce the rules in the same way for all players, it is just regular law enforcement.
Homicide and theft are both against the law, but I sure hope, that there are more ressources spent on dealing with a case of homicide, than with theft.
If i was to post on an "Official Law Enforcement Forum" (sic) about how i am a theif and how i was the first person to steal the crown jewels, explaining exactly how i pulled off the heist, do you think the police would come and get me?
or would they follow NCSoft's stance on breaking the EULA and do an interview about how cool i am, but bust the next 15 people who commit the same crime??
that's exactly what i mean by pick and choose. if it's against the rules, it's against the rules WTH ????
it states that account sharing is prohibited, just as it states that buying items with real money is prohibited...
why is it ok to break one rule and not the others???? it doesn't make any sense to me.
Are you talking about okay as in "players think it's okay" or "NCSoft thinks it's okay"? I think most player feel it's okay (I, personally don't and have never done this; I put this in the same context as purchased accounts). NCSoft says it's against the rules (for the reason I listed originally) but is 99.9% unenforcable. Saying it's against the rules and enforcement are two completely seperate issues.
and just what kind of logic is that? it doesn't matter one bit what the players think is ok, i'm sure there are plenty of people who think buying adena is ok, i'm sure there are plenty of people who think it's perfectly ok to run bots 24/7 too.
the point is this: if you make a set of rules, it stands to reason that ALL of those rules would be enforced equally.
let's say we have a set of 10 rules, if it's ok to break rule #3 why is it not ok to break rule #4 ?
As kitten pointed out - you think murder and petty theft should get the same attention?
What about people giving RL friends or their significant others gain benefits for something that is clearly exchanged out of game? That's **** close to ebaying, and I'm sure if you look at them long enough you'll find it covered.
no of course they shouldn't. you are missing the point.
LOL - how is it hard to enforce the rule when the first level 75 ADMITTED TO and was praised by NCSoft for account sharing ???
this is the double standard i speak of.
If i was to make this big post about how I was the first in NA to reach 2.1 billion adena because i ebayed it all from different sources do you think i would still have an account???
NCSoft doesn't take "admitting to something" as actually breaking a rule, because then some idiots start reporting people who are making in-context-obviously-sarcastic statements:
"Yeah, I ebayed to get it." (Just yesterday in partychat - someone was talking about a wooden set.)
To define the game standards, of course. Account sharing is allowed in some games, certain games even sell game items on their official website. On the other hand, things like dual boxing are forbidden in some games. There are actually a few people that read all the game rules and adjust their playstyle accordingly.
A lot of places have laws against suicide, you're obviously not going to see any enforcement but it's society's way of saying, "That's not ok with us." Essentially that's the same thing NC is doing when they tell us not to share accounts but have no way of enforcing it.
no of course not, that would be rediculous. HOWEVER - if an employee came to me with an amazing feat accomplished, sure... i would praise him. right up until he told me "well, i got the contract, but i had to break into the competition's office to get the egde" - at which point he would be fired.
the guy admitted to it. it was a big deal at the time. NCSoft and crew were so proud of this dude and his brother for getting to 75 first.... yeah yeah he had to break their EULA to do it sure, details details i guess...
not a giant issue i know. part of it is that i am really bored at work today :P
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"To define the game standards, of course. Account sharing is allowed in some games, certain games even sell game items on their official website. On the other hand, things like dual boxing are forbidden in some games. There are actually a few people that read all the game rules and adjust their playstyle accordingly.
A lot of places have laws against suicide, you're obviously not going to see any enforcement but it's society's way of saying, "That's not ok with us." Essentially that's the same thing NC is doing when they tell us not to share accounts but have no way of enforcing it"
those games... where it is allowed... probably doesn't state in their EULA that it is against the rules now do they??? so i don't really see your point there.
suicide isn't enforced? LOL well, it's tough to put someone in jail when they are dead.
but if the attempt fails, i guarantee said person will be arrested. sure, he might not go to jail, but the law was enforced none the less.
i dunno what the solution is... how about not putting rules in your Licensing Agreement that you are not going to enforce?
again the question remains... if someone gets banned for ebaying 1 billion adena, but they let the person who has shared his account so he could level non stop and now is a hero/nobless/3 level 78 subclass/freaking badarse that no one can take down.... do they not BOTH hurt the game fairly equally?
For the 3rd time, to cover their butts. Someone says "I leant my account to so-and-so and they stripped it. Give my stuff back." NCSoft says "Sorry, against the rules. No can do."
and just what kind of logic is that?
Well, if you're the kind of person who won't do something only because they might get caught? It doesn't make sense. If you are the kind of person that doesn't do something because it's against the rules and it's just wrong then you'll have no problem with it.
Bottom line, if you want to do it, go for it. If you think it's wrong, don't do it. Who needs someone standing over them saying "You'll get in trouble if you do it." to decide their actions?
those games... where it is allowed... probably doesn't state in their EULA that it is against the rules now do they??? so i don't really see your point there.
I'm saying that game standards differ between games, and it is to a company's benefit to clarify these differences. Simply put, if you don't want people to share accounts then tell them not to do so.
By not having a rule, you're basically stating that the type of behavior is acceptable in your game. Really there's no way to enforce the ban on buying adena as well, but would you rather have NC saying they dislike this behavior or openly allowing it on their servers?
i have no intention, nor have i ever, to share my account information. it's not that i fear getting caught at all.. it's just not something i feel would be right to do. if it was completely allowed, i still wouldn't do it. if i gave any other impression, i apologize. you seem to be implying that i have lesser morals than you, which is uncalled for sir.
the arguement i make is not whether it's right or wrong. it's about the double standard being set.
bottom line is: NCSoft will do whatever they want, regardless what their EULA says. I just find it humorus that their reps come here and defend it like it's the US Constitution.
when in reality it means nothing. if they feel like banning a husband and wife for sharing, but not the chinese sweat shop bots for sharing, so be it.
i have no intention, nor have i ever, to share my account information. it's not that i fear getting caught at all.. it's just not something i feel would be right to do. if it was completely allowed, i still wouldn't do it. if i gave any other impression, i apologize. you seem to be implying that i have lesser morals than you, which is uncalled for sir.
I was speaking in generalities, not accusing anyone of anything. Besides, there are many different reasons for accounts sharing. I don't do it because it's against the rules, not because I'll get banned for it (which I won't).
Hell, some people will cheat at solitaire. Where's the rule enforcement there?
the arguement i make is not whether it's right or wrong. it's about the double standard being set.
bottom line is: NCSoft will do whatever they want, regardless what their EULA says. I just find it humorus that their reps come here and defend it like it's the US Constitution.
when in reality it means nothing. if they feel like banning a husband and wife for sharing, but not the chinese sweat shop bots for sharing, so be it.
Where's the double-standard? Not every rule is in place to ban people. There is a world of difference between a husband and wife sharing an account (they may or may not even be playing the same toons) and a shop of botters. You're talking about two completely different subjects. There are people that bot nonstop without account sharing. One has nothing to do with the other.
The EULA is in place to protect NCSoft. Nothing more, nothing less. Of course they defend it. It *is* their constitution.
But if my little bro would want to play L2 on my account 1-2 hours a week on a seperate toon that would be his own, how could I say "No , your not allowed". If I would want to create my own buffer on my dad's account to two box, I shoudnt be allowed?. If I borrowed gear from my Bf's toon and Im out of town for a week and he needs it back, he shouldnt be allowed to log into my account and take it back????
I completly agree that the rule is to PROTECT NCSOFT form people saying "I shared my account and I lost everything, can you give me my gear back plz". NCSOft wants to protect theit behind from peoples own stupidity. I would never give my account information to any clan member thats not my immediate familly. People who do share their account info do it at their own risk. But comming from a familly of L2 addicts, of course we each have our own accounts. But if I ever said "no I forbid you form using my account - ever " I would soon find myslef without a roof over my shoulders
again... the question isn't whether or not you, I or any other player feels it's right or wrong.
it's about the EULA and NCSoft. They say it's the law, above posters say it's their constitution. When anything happens to someone's account, it's always the EULA that is brought up. Like a Gregorian chant, "It's in the EULA... "
but here we have NCSoft actually endorsing the fact that someone blatantly broke a rule that is as plain as day in the exact same EULA.
Honestly, I don't care if you share your account with the world. I don't care if you think it's right. I don't care if you think it's wrong. I do care however, if NCSoft is banning some and not others when they are doing the exact same thing.
Because that speaks of favoritism and THAT my friends, is most definitely not OK in a game where the entire system is set up to be player controlled.
We regard account security as a very important concern. Throughout the history of this disputed account, this account's security has consistently been compromised and abused by multiple parties. Due to this, we have selected this account for permanent closure.
We are unable to determine the "true" owner of this account and feel that the account cannot remain secure at any time in the future. As a result, the decision to close this account is final and not up for review.
4. ACCOUNT
(i) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive.
(j) Related Accounts. If NC Interactive terminates an Account, NC Interactive may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account.
7. OFFICIAL SERVICE
NC Interactive has designed Lineage II for play only as offered by NC Interactive at the Web Site. You agree to play Lineage II only as offered by NC Interactive at the Web Site and not through any other means. You further agree not to create or provide any other means through which Lineage II may be played by others, as through server emulators. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Lineage II, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not sell or auction any Lineage II accounts, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.
14. TERMINATION
(a)We may terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of Lineage II as described in the Rules of Conduct. If we terminate this Agreement under any circumstances, you will lose access to your Account for the balance of any prepaid period without any refund.
(b)You agree that if the service or your account is terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.
~~This is from an ex-clan's buffer account. Nothing was stolen, nothing was stripped, all that happened was that one clan member decided he wanted to be greedy and not let anyone else use it anymore, and tried to have the master password changed.
Notice.. no mention of any sort of 3rd party programs, no ebaying, the account was paid for 6 months at a time, nothing but the account security. Which, from what I read here, is "solely the player's responsibility" or is it?
***By request of the person involved, account names, etc. have been deleted.***
Mistryl has already given the official answer on this. Account sharing is not allowed by the User Agreement except in the case of an account being used by the minor child of an account owner.
With that said, all User Agreement violations are not created equal. As was stated by several of our more regular forum users, this rule is to limit our liability for security reasons. To ban every account that has ever been accessed by more than one person would not only be impossible but it would disenfranchise many of our loyal (legitimate) customers if it was possible.
The rule for account sharing is in the User Agreement for your protection and ours.
This e-mail is not for account sharing. This e-mail is for 2 people fighting over the same account.
Both of these parties could not prove the account was theirs so it was closed.
Response (GM Akahige) 03/09/2006 12:56 PM
Hello,
We regard account security as a very important concern. Throughout the history of this disputed account, this account's security has consistently been compromised and abused by multiple parties. Due to this, we have selected this account for permanent closure.
We are unable to determine the "true" owner of this account and feel that the account cannot remain secure at any time in the future. As a result, the decision to close this account is final and not up for review.
4. ACCOUNT
(i) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive.
(j) Related Accounts. If NC Interactive terminates an Account, NC Interactive may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account.
7. OFFICIAL SERVICE
NC Interactive has designed Lineage II for play only as offered by NC Interactive at the Web Site. You agree to play Lineage II only as offered by NC Interactive at the Web Site and not through any other means. You further agree not to create or provide any other means through which Lineage II may be played by others, as through server emulators. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for Lineage II, except that you may use the Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on our infrastructure. You may not sell or auction any Lineage II accounts, characters, items, coin or copyrighted material.
14. TERMINATION
(a)We may terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of Lineage II as described in the Rules of Conduct. If we terminate this Agreement under any circumstances, you will lose access to your Account for the balance of any prepaid period without any refund.
(b)You agree that if the service or your account is terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.
~~This is from an ex-clan's buffer account. Nothing was stolen, nothing was stripped, all that happened was that one clan member decided he wanted to be greedy and not let anyone else use it anymore, and tried to have the master password changed.
Notice.. no mention of any sort of 3rd party programs, no ebaying, the account was paid for 6 months at a time, nothing but the account security. Which, from what I read here, is "solely the player's responsibility" or is it?
***By request of the person involved, account names, etc. have been deleted.***
This e-mail is not for account sharing. This e-mail are for 2 people fighting over the same account.
Both of these parties could not prove the account was theirs so it was closed.
and since i was not directly involved, i cannot counter that. I only copied the email my buddy sent me when i asked. Although it did have all the answers on it like birthday, CD Key, account confirmation code etc... and the payments were all on his credit card.
But, I think the story is is the other guy had the same info... minus the CC info of course.
Like I said, I can't go any further with that, because I wasn't involved.
I wish I could understand what you're asking. But, after all of this I don't so I'm out. Good luck finding your answers.
I don't really have a question lol... just banter on a forum on a slow day at work.
Thank you HGMspam for your reply.
As always, an official response is always much appreciated. Thank you for clearing up things. It is good to know that people do have some common sense.
PS: HGMspam and Mistry are greatl! Good and timely responses to players concerns.
Sorry for keeping a dead thread alive (I'm bored too I guess), but don't you think that the dude would turn around the second he was banned and say, "I was only kidding! sheesh!". How would NCSoft prove that he wasn't the only person wielding the account.
(**extreme example alert**) Crazy people admit to murders every day that they didn't commit and they don't get convicted on admission alone.
I'm not sure exactly what he did honestly. I remember him saying he argured back and forth with the support people for a while, but I didn't really keep up with it.
I don't know what else he could have done to prove it was his account though.
wasn't it mistryl that said basically they dont care about account shareing unless its for illegal means i.e adena selling
either way account shareing is COOL and 99% of clans do it
this happened to me last week, partying with a friend of a friend of a guy (who i thought was someone else because he and his brohter share the same account) that KSed me, and his dualboxed BD dissapeared in mid-catacomb. i was like "dc?" and he was like "no, one of my other friends must have logged into the acocunt". i just dont see how people can be so trusting of other people, not just in gear, but in relationships...what if someone you were related to logged into your account and PKed someone on your friendlist? O.o
one credit card = one account. really, it would solve a lot of problems. and if someone logs into their account durring a fight they should be autobanned.
They really should disable that; should keep the person already in game logged in. This would solve many intentional forcelogs.
EbayersSuck: if two persons provide the needed details (key, address, username/pass etc etc) and claim ownership of the account NC closes it (if both are correct of course), thats what that email says / HGMspam meant. I think thats a perfectly valid course of action.
The CC doesn't validate you, because its allowed to have someone else paying for you. If your my poor RL friend and I pay for your account because I enjoy playing with you I should not be able to claim your account when we have a fight suddenly, right? Only now with all the account issues I've heard of validation by CC, but only if all other things failed and when there is no dispute about multiple claims.
They really should disable that; should keep the person already in game logged in. This would solve many intentional forcelogs.
Ah hell, it would solve me forcelogging myself and having to reboot my computer to get rid of the stuff the disconnected-and-thus-crashed-to-desktop-client thought would be cool to leave in my memory before I can even think about double-instancing again.
They really should disable that; should keep the person already in game logged in. This would solve many intentional forcelogs.
Ah hell, it would solve me forcelogging myself and having to reboot my computer to get rid of the stuff the disconnected-and-thus-crashed-to-desktop-client thought would be cool to leave in my memory before I can even think about double-instancing again.
Yes, but if yoru getting hacked or someone is on your account that shouldnt be, then what :(