To OE an item two types of enchant scrolls could be used: regular and blessed ones.
The difference is that if OE was failed - then in the first case an item evaporates and you get its' price in crystals ,
but in the second case an item just loses all its' enchants and returns to non-enchanted state PI0.
Surely blessed scrolls are less risky, but they are so expensive.
So I decided to study when and what type of scrolls to use for my OE experiments depending on market conditions.
Let we have an item with market price PI and want to OE it to the next level to PI+.
Crystal price if the item is PC.
The price of blessed scroll is PBSE and of the regular one is PSE.
Probability to fail is PF
So
1) Using a regular SE we pay PSE and get with probability PF crystals with price PC and with probability (1-pF) - OEd item PI+
2) Using blessed SE we pay PBSE and get with probability PF non-enchanted item PI0 and with probability (1-pF) - OEd item PI+
Expected money balance is
1) -PI - PSE +PF*PC + (1-PF)*PI+
2) -PI - PBSE +PF*PI0 + (1-PF)*PI+
Let study when Blessed OE is more profitable then regular one:
So, if the probability to fail is greater then ratio (PBSE-PSE)/(PI0-PC) then we should use blessed scrolls. Otherwise - use regular scrolls.
Well let's check this on practice
Fail probability for weapon OE doesn't depend on OE level and is about 0.32
Fail probabilities for armor OE depend on OE level and are ~0.32 for the 1st OE, ~0.56 - 2nd, ~0.75 for 3rd
Fail probabilities for jewelry OE depend on OE level and are ~0.37 for the 1st OE, ~0.72 - 2nd, ~0.92 for 3rd
For easier calculation you may use following success probabilities = (1-PF) :
Weapon OE any step - 2/3
Armor OE: 1 step - 2/3; 2 step 2/3*2/3 = 4/9 = 0.44; 3 step 2/3*2/3*2/3=0.29; n step - (2/3)^n
Jewerly OE: 1 step - 2/3: 2 step 2/3*2/3*2/3=0.29; 3 step (2/3)^5 =0.13 ; n step - (2/3)^(2*n-1)
Let's OE Doom Plate Armor from +4 to +5 ( 1st level of OE ) at Gustin:
PI0 = 14000K ( non enchanted )
PC = 628 b-cry * 10.5k ( price of b-cry ) = 6594K
PBSE = 3000K ( b grade BSE )
PSE = 400K ( b grade SE )
(sale prices Gustin 08/17/06 from [censored].com )
(3000-400)/(14000-6594) = 0.35
Since 0.35 is greater then Pf = 0.32 it is more profitable now to use a regular SE then blessed ones in this case..., but a month ago when PI0 was 16000k and price of b-cry was 9000k above ratio was equal to 0.25 and blessed SE should be used.
But if we OE DC helmet then
PI0 = 180000K ( non enchanted )
PC = 139 a-cry * 13k ( price of a-cry ) = 1807K
PBSE = 10000K ( a grade BSE )
PSE = 750K ( a grade SE )
(sale prices Gustin 08/17/06 from [censored].com )
(10000-750)/(180000-1807) = 0.05
This is far less then 0.32, so only blessed SE should be used...
So knowing market conditions you can minimize losses OEing your equipment.....
Welcome to the boards...you have just confused some of the smarter members of the board community. I am gonna go out on a limb and try to translate (tho I might fail miserably).
When you fail an OE, you get crystals. The higher the enchant, the greater the number of crystals. Blessed OE's will not evaporate your gear if they fail, but rater will reduce the enchant to 0.
Blessed OE's SHOULD be used as long as the crystal value of the evaporated item is BELOW the value of the unenchanted item. If I am enchanting fp armor to +5 and I failed with a normal scroll, I would get back less than the FP armor is worth. Blessed scrolls would, therefore, be a wise inventment.
However, there reaches a point where blessed scrolls are NOT worth it. If you are going from +15-+16 on a crystal dagger, for example, the crystal value if you evaporate it MIGHT be worth MORE than the value of an unenchanted crystal dagger.
SO blessed OE's are only worth it as long as the crystal price of the evaporated item is below that of the unenchanted item. They are not worth it if the crystal value of a blown item is worth more than the unenchanted item (high end OE's).
Please excuse me if I am mistaken, I had a hard time with it too X.x
While the calculations are correct from one standpoint they fail from another.
D and C grade items should not be bless enchanted as most are available through lux shop or semi-easy to accomplish quests(coin, etc).
Scrolls of enchant are overpriced, but blessed ones grossly so. Of cource varying from server to server but when base item is even more cheap then the enchant scroll itsself, then it is insane to waste a blessedscroll or the gatepasses to get one, on such a paltry item.
In my personal opinion D grade and C grade should not have blessed wasted on them. B grade is iffy. A grade high weapons and armor helms are good candidates for blessed scrolls. S should go without saying, if you are even of level to worry about it.
Welcome to the boards...you have just confused some of the smarter members of the board community. I am gonna go out on a limb and try to translate (tho I might fail miserably).
When you fail an OE, you get crystals. The higher the enchant, the greater the number of crystals. Blessed OE's will not evaporate your gear if they fail, but rater will reduce the enchant to 0.
Blessed OE's SHOULD be used as long as the crystal value of the evaporated item is BELOW the value of the unenchanted item. If I am enchanting fp armor to +5 and I failed with a normal scroll, I would get back less than the FP armor is worth. Blessed scrolls would, therefore, be a wise inventment.
However, there reaches a point where blessed scrolls are NOT worth it. If you are going from +15-+16 on a crystal dagger, for example, the crystal value if you evaporate it MIGHT be worth MORE than the value of an unenchanted crystal dagger.
SO blessed OE's are only worth it as long as the crystal price of the evaporated item is below that of the unenchanted item. They are not worth it if the crystal value of a blown item is worth more than the unenchanted item (high end OE's).
Please excuse me if I am mistaken, I had a hard time with it too X.x
Correct for armor OE and the first step of weapon/jewerly OE
1) Check the price difference between blessed and regular scrolls
2) Find how much non-enchanted item costs and how much you can get selling crystals if it's broken. Find the difference.
3)Divide 1) to 2)
4) if the result is greater then 1/3 (probability of fail ) use regular scrolls, otherwise use blessed ones
5)Enchant, good luck
While the calculations are correct from one standpoint they fail from another.
D and C grade items should not be bless enchanted as most are available through lux shop or semi-easy to accomplish quests(coin, etc).
Scrolls of enchant are overpriced, but blessed ones grossly so. Of cource varying from server to server but when base item is even more cheap then the enchant scroll itsself, then it is insane to waste a blessedscroll or the gatepasses to get one, on such a paltry item.
In my personal opinion D grade and C grade should not have blessed wasted on them. B grade is iffy. A grade high weapons and armor helms are good candidates for blessed scrolls. S should go without saying, if you are even of level to worry about it.
If you put market prices for any D,C,B,A,S item into formula - you will get about the same summary... But in each case it will give your precise answer what to use to OE a given item. Surely it's more important for B and A grades.
What standpoint they fail from?
i do believe Shai'Hulud himself would have difficulty with those equations.
thanks.
And as always, I am astonished by the level of literacy of the members of these boards. And people think that all we do is play video games and try to one-up each other on a message board.........
I got lost after
"Let we have an item with market price PI and want to OE it to the next level to PI+ Crystal price if the item is PC".
I couldn't stop lauphing all I could think of was this.
"Seein' as how the VP is such a VIP, shouldn't we keep the VC on the QT cause if it leaks in the VC we could end up an MIA and then we'd all be put on KP"
To OE an item two types of enchant scrolls could be used: regular and blessed ones.
The difference is that if OE was failed - then in the first case an item evaporates and you get its' price in crystals ,
but in the second case an item just loses all its' enchants and returns to non-enchanted state PI0.
Surely blessed scrolls are less risky, but they are so expensive.
So I decided to study when and what type of scrolls to use for my OE experiments depending on market conditions.
Let we have an item with market price PI and want to OE it to the next level to PI+.
Crystal price if the item is PC.
The price of blessed scroll is PBSE and of the regular one is PSE.
Probability to fail is PF
So
1) Using a regular SE we pay PSE and get with probability PF crystals with price PC and with probability (1-pF) - OEd item PI+
2) Using blessed SE we pay PBSE and get with probability PF non-enchanted item PI0 and with probability (1-pF) - OEd item PI+
Expected money balance is
1) -PI - PSE +PF*PC + (1-PF)*PI+
2) -PI - PBSE +PF*PI0 + (1-PF)*PI+
Let study when Blessed OE is more profitable then regular one:
So, if the probability to fail is greater then ratio (PBSE-PSE)/(PI0-PC) then we should use blessed scrolls. Otherwise - use regular scrolls.
Well let's check this on practice
Fail probability for weapon OE doesn't depend on OE level and is about 0.32
Fail probabilities for armor OE depend on OE level and are ~0.32 for the 1st OE, ~0.56 - 2nd, ~0.75 for 3rd
Fail probabilities for jewelry OE depend on OE level and are ~0.37 for the 1st OE, ~0.72 - 2nd, ~0.92 for 3rd
For easier calculation you may use following success probabilities = (1-PF) :
Weapon OE any step - 2/3
Armor OE: 1 step - 2/3; 2 step 2/3*2/3 = 4/9 = 0.44; 3 step 2/3*2/3*2/3=0.29; n step - (2/3)^n
Jewerly OE: 1 step - 2/3: 2 step 2/3*2/3*2/3=0.29; 3 step (2/3)^5 =0.13 ; n step - (2/3)^(2*n-1)
Let's OE Doom Plate Armor from +4 to +5 ( 1st level of OE ) at Gustin:
PI0 = 14000K ( non enchanted )
PC = 628 b-cry * 10.5k ( price of b-cry ) = 6594K
PBSE = 3000K ( b grade BSE )
PSE = 400K ( b grade SE )
(sale prices Gustin 08/17/06 from [censored].com )
(3000-400)/(14000-6594) = 0.35
Since 0.35 is greater then Pf = 0.32 it is more profitable now to use a regular SE then blessed ones in this case..., but a month ago when PI0 was 16000k and price of b-cry was 9000k above ratio was equal to 0.25 and blessed SE should be used.
But if we OE DC helmet then
PI0 = 180000K ( non enchanted )
PC = 139 a-cry * 13k ( price of a-cry ) = 1807K
PBSE = 10000K ( a grade BSE )
PSE = 750K ( a grade SE )
(sale prices Gustin 08/17/06 from [censored].com )
(10000-750)/(180000-1807) = 0.05
This is far less then 0.32, so only blessed SE should be used...
So knowing market conditions you can minimize losses OEing your equipment.....
This is like the 7th response I've done and i've deleted the rest cuz i kept changing my thought, but the calculations are correct.
However, in practice, if you're going to OE +12 to +13, the difference in money that you make or lose is going to be such a small fragment of the blessed cost that it doesn't matter what you use.
But as Tokara said, OEing epic jewelry is what he does, i checked the math on the A grade ring and the percentage comes out to be like (2/900) < .32 lol.
But nice post, had my mind spinning and spinning. Other than using Blessed scrolls on epic jewelry, there's no real use to them in my opinion.
Blowing a +16 weapon into crystals or into a +0 weapon is practically the same loss. It could even be as low as +8 on a weapon.
Blowing a +16 weapon into crystals or into a +0 weapon is practically the same loss. It could even be as low as +8 on a weapon.
Actually, for weapons its more like +12 where Blessed becomes un-worth it. For those of you just tuning in, that means that after +12 (in general), using blessed weapon enchants is a waste of money. Until +12 (in general) using blessed enchants is NOT a waste of money. Exceptions are: mage weapons, rare weapons, and A grade weapons past +7.
Wow, what a ******ed way to try to sound clever...
Basically if an item is worth more than it's crystal value at it's current state plus cost of blessed enchant then use a blessed.... for example A grade helms are worth like 100mil, but make 3mil in crystals. Use a blessed enchant on them costing 20mil or you could lose a ton of money.
Putting this into practice when drunk however is a different matter........ blew Zaken earring trying for +6 cos I couldn't find a blessed. :?
Wow, what a ******ed way to try to sound clever...
Basically if an item is worth more than it's crystal value at it's current state plus cost of blessed enchant then use a blessed.... for example A grade helms are worth like 100mil, but make 3mil in crystals. Use a blessed enchant on them costing 20mil or you could lose a ton of money.
Putting this into practice when drunk however is a different matter........ blew Zaken earring trying for +6 cos I couldn't find a blessed. :?
thats not a stupid thing to do at all actually. risky, normal, typical, but in no means stupid.
but please read the OP post. what he wrote was a way of MINIMISING your losses should your current market reflect certain conditions. if you blew 150m on a DC helm, but blew it up and only got 3mil of crystals back, you havent been using the method described in the original post. because if you read it you would have known it was just the wrong time to OE it. had you waited until the crystal price risen 2-3k you could have made back a lot more adena.
just label your store "Fragments of zaken ear *sniff*"
and to the OP, i like the way you have broken each variable down, and re-assembled them into an equation however i do believe that should an abundance of the Blessed D and BlessedC scrolls arise, your higher priced A and B and S items will not require such a high ratio of Item:crystal prices. as it stands already, .32 is a difficult measure to being D grade up to, let alone A or S. the cost of scrolls as you mentioned plays a particularly heavy role in determining the Cost but try and see this from the Hero's standpoint ... he fights for the vouchers to trade in for Blessed scrolls. so they are in fact free. this would tip the scales into his favour no? i mean if you traded in all your olympiad points for Blessed OE scrolls, you could really not have a loss to cut. anything acquired from then on would be of sweeeetest profit; be that crystals or an actual highly OE weapon.