Now, I am not 100% sure if this has been disccussed, but I wanted to bring an issue up.
Now I have a wide range of RL friends who me being the blacksheep plays Lineage and the rest all play WoW.
On a weekly basis we get together and play hockey and usually after we get dinner and talk about video games.
Now listening to alot of WoW discussions and forced to watch alot of Wow Videos, I have come to notice that ALOT of the new changes (RPS, class balance, quest giving exp) are things that WoW have already implemented. Now the new rumours buzzing about with the increase of bar slots and buff bar slots and even the "no drop item" rumoured update me have me worried.
Is it possible we might loose the lineage we have come to love and become a clone of WoW? Even the new raid boss having a limiter of amount of players who can particate seem pulled from WoW limited man raids.
Only thing we are missing are PVE servers, and Instances and you have another WoW x.x
Though I do agree with reduction of exp loss for events like Sieges making PVP more fun and less painful to higher level players i don't agree with alot of almost alot of the changes that appear ripped right from the blizzard MMO.
I personally play Lineage because its more "Hardcore" than WoW and have always used that as a leverage in my defense in the lineage vs wow topics that come up frequently. My question to the community do alot of people see these changes necessary to compete against the WoW Epidemic or should lineage stick to its routes of being a difficulate game. It seems that Ncsoft might be trying to recapture parts of the market by making lineage "less difficult".
I'm not sure. I like not dropping 100 M + gear that takes ages to replace. It's sad when two pieces of your equipment constitute 70% of it's value...the weapon and helmet. The solution is fixing the market issues, not destroying drop chances. I'm fine with A grade sets of armor costing 200 M for the set on my server...but it should be evenly distributed through the set...not 70% on the helmet alone.
I'm fine with A grade sets of armor costing 200 M for the set on my server...but it should be evenly distributed through the set...not 70% on the helmet alone.
1. Rarity of item is important - that's why those items cost so much. If you do not want to buy - do not. Craft it. It will be cheaper.
2. To fix market NCSoft have to ban bots and not just talking "we are taking all appropriate actions". They do nothing. That's why you have such high prices - they are for ebayers, not for legit players.
actually i've thought the same thing. they are trying to do what WoW has done in an effort to not lose players becasue they dont understand fully WHY they are loosing players to WoW. its not becasue you drop items when you die, its not becasue of the way raid bosses work, it has nothing to do with the karma system (which is the best idea ever created), or how easy it is for a player to solo up to the top level (which i think should be impossible in an MMO). i think its all about the dwarves and the ecconomy. other players will tell you, if you need money reroll a dwarf. but dwarves dont make money, and now that new player just wasted a month of their time to NOT get something that a non-legit player CAN get in 5 minutes. and the non-legit player is not the only one who has to deal with the consequences of their actions, the whole game suffers becasue there are no instances in L2, nor should there be. Blizzard has taken the easy way out in every possible way they could, they made a game based on a pre-existant cult classic to gain instant popularity, they use instances to hide how many bots are really in their games, they have characters that look like cartoons because they dont want to hire real artists. NC, on the other hand, took the harder road and made the better game. how they change that game after its creation is, unfortunately, up to them to decide.
edit: PS, becasue the solution is not obvious from what i said. use the ban hammer on ebayers. this game is about walking a difficult path, if you want the easy path, go play WoW.
edit: i dont like the name "lineage craft". "LinCraft" is much more catchy, dont you think?
recapture parts of the market by making lineage "less difficult".
I don't see that happening!
Lineage is still and forever will be more hardcore then wow. I use to work with someone that was a hardcore wow player, and he for ever tried to convert me to wow.
I compare wow to hitting a gamer with a feather, while lineage is smacking people with a 5 pound sledge right between the eyes.
the only real thing wrong with l2 is the MASSIVE bot problem (seems to be one of the worst bot infestations in the mmo world, or atleast one of the worst)
And I dont think l2 should become less hardcore, I like it the way it is. Though it is by far not the grindiest of mmos, even though most ppl think it is.
I have never played WOW. I have had a free trial in my desk ofr about 6 months now. Only bad thing about lineage is of course the thing that keeps me playing. It's time consuming. I hat the fact that I dont have the same amount of time to play this game that others do. I get maybe 1-2 hours a day on a good day between work and family. Im lucky if I get to even play at all on the weekends now. But I have managed to get 2 toons to 60+ in 2 years. If it only took a few weeks of hardcore grinding to get to max lvl and uber gear then this game would bew dead. I dont know if I ever want to get to max lvl because it may make me quit.
Every other rp game I have played I have beaten to fast to make it even worth buying them anymore. I am defiantley glad the grind is harsh in this game. The only thing I would like to see changed is the drop % it obsured how low it is.
I personally play Lineage because its more "Hardcore" than WoW and have always used that as a leverage in my defense in the lineage vs wow topics that come up frequently. My question to the community do alot of people see these changes necessary to compete against the WoW Epidemic or should lineage stick to its routes of being a difficulate game. It seems that Ncsoft might be trying to recapture parts of the market by making lineage "less difficult".
fact is in NA WOW is a billion times more popular
even if they turn l2 into a full wow clone they might lose all us hardcore players but would easily replace them with bored WOW carebears
i played WOW on a free 1 week trial and even though i was bored ******** it did feel good to not have to lose 8+ hours of my time whenever the server lagged and i died
pvp was actually more interesting rather than our 2 second 2 hit kill button spamming, you got a chance to pick skills and strategize
quests actually had meaning, and while i disagree with getting a top grade weapon and armor for every quest you complete it was better than lineages habit of quests which give less rewards than what you would get if you didnt do it
in short WOW sucks and we are playing lineage, but im sure some ideas could be implemented without completely destroying the game
there are bots in WOW too, IG items/gold are sold there too, not at all hard to find. Little search done and most people in WoW complain about botters/farmers as well. Ironically fairly similar complaint type posts as L2. (link (http://www.wowguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14214))
I recently got a trial w/ PC gamer, being bored, and short on cash, gave it a try (running a shop in the background FTW!). Honestly I would bet people go there(wow) more for the feeling of doing something, always was a new quest to do for the first few levels(dunno after that), NPC's made the world feel "alive" areas kind of felt like there was a reason for them to be there, farms/towns, etc.
Now compare that to L2, running the same 2-3 quests nonstop through the first 20 levels, extremely static world, really is no reason for most mobs to be sitting around in fields, and only a few notable dungeons or areas I can think of ( Necros All look the same, and most fields too, except c4+ areas), ******ed Fed-ex quests, and one hell of a grind. But higher levels, especially pvp clans I would say L2 gets a much more lived in world feel imo. You just have to actually get into all the player created drama, etc.
L2 makes you work to get a "living world feel" by making relationships with other players, WoW just does it with NPC's.
IMO yes we are loosing the game that we love, wich makes me very sad. I for one liked L2 the way it was and with these "wow-changes" its just not the same game.
Hard to say they are "WoW changes". MMOs are evolving. I am sure NC has army of experts analysing market, playing other games, doing pointless infinite researches and statistics on What would you change in current MMOs to make it more appealing etc. Blizzard does too.
There are several new MMOs coming out there - Archlord doing it way of mass pvp and capturing strongholds to rule a part of land (reminds me L2 sieges), Age of Conan based on more solo and PVP in harsh environment, And why does everyone claim Vanguard is going to be brand new third generation ultra modern hardcore MMO? Don't see anything so surprisingly new and stunning yet from information available there.
There is always some fights between developer of the game saying "we want to keep our cruise of the game" and their publisher saying "we need more subscribers (=money), but we will hardly get any if...". Yet games that try to appeal everybody on the market fail and loose interrest after changes they make to make attract other types of players. I do not see it happening in L2 yet. If anybody cannot find what he/she expects from this game, leaves. Another one finds the game to be his/her style.
But yes, I agree, the problem with rampant cheating remains. Hidden behind excuses as "this game is so hard, I do not have that time to level and pwn everybody". If you cannot stand the game as it is, why do you play it in first place? I guess I am dreaming of ideal world.
I think that it is a bit early to determine whether these changes would be entirely bad or not. Sit back, let em come to NA, then raise holy hell if they suck. For all we know, some of the changes could make the game more fun. We'll just have to wait and see. Personally, I'm looking forward to see how these changes will play out...assuming we get them.
I really wouldn't like to see L2 becoming a softcore MMORPG. Not that there's anything wrong with these sort of games. I enjoy WoW (up until raiding started). The whole reason I joined L2 (last week in fact) was because it's a hardcore game.
I've left EQ2 because it has become too easy. Also, a couple of mates have become fed up with the ease of WoW and are planning on starting L2 accounts.
So, in a nutshell, I agree. Making this game easier will probably push current gamers away and not atract any new ones.
But yes, I agree, the problem with rampant cheating remains. Hidden behind excuses as "this game is so hard, I do not have that time to level and pwn everybody". If you cannot stand the game as it is, why do you play it in first place? I guess I am dreaming of ideal world.
yeah
i sometimes wonder what l2 would be like if every tool that didnt have the time to lvl legit, or didnt have the brains to get equipment just quit
would l2 even exist?
or would ncsoft hit the panic button and WOW it up abit?
Purely gamewise I definitely prefer L2 to WoW. It's just that L2 is sometimes a bit discouraging with all the botting and ebaying. Not that it doesn't happen in WoW, but there you can still level to 60 in 2 months regardless and money is a lot less important than in L2.
In L2 you won't find someone who bought the game 2 months ago and who's in top Epic Gear.
In L2, you can count on top players or just even friends to stay in game rather than get bored after two more months and deactivate without caring for his/her pledge.
Members turnover is way more stable in L2 and it takes time and commitment.
I prefer stable and commited people.
But again it's just me.
Edit : did I mention that it's still breath taking to run in game and see the world after more than two years ?
No game on earth is as beautiful.
And being a crafter too I like the system.
Yeah this game is becomming way too easy. I say let's lower drops by 1/4th, lets lower exp by 1/4th, increase the death penalty 2x, make it so you always drop something when you die, and people who arent in your clan/party get pick up priority for 15 seconds.
That ought to get rid of all those pesky legit players. (**** carebears)
We still have sucky quests, super grind, insane mat prices, 60% recipes. If not wanting to lose 150mil to a server crash is carebear, sign me up.
Like I said elsewhere, they should make you drop from your invo. But high end gear is just to expensive, and now we are going for +6 sets. It makes sense that they add some way for us to protect the extreme investment of time and money that gear represents.
-just a quick reply-
WOW right now is the 'hot' game for people to play, so I suspect that NCsoft will do somethings that are influance by the WOW surge. I just hope those things don't discourge our player base.
in C4 legit players HAD a way to protect their equipment, it is called bsoe. the problem is the non-legit players get free bsoes, because force-logging is essentially the same thing and they have to be reported on it to be banned.
Having played both L2 and WoW I can tell you that the main atraction players have to WoW is the Cost of Legit items even from the ingame vendors, L2 is WAY to fricking expensive to do anything unless you have a loaded Clan or you Ebay, there is no REAL legit way to get necessary upgrades otherwise. The other main problem with L2 is leveling, it's too **** slow, while WoW is too **** fast. I casually played WoW and hit lvl60 in the same ammount of time it took me to hit 40 while grinding hardcore to hit 40, a happy medium is needed. And of course dropping items at death is seriously wrong once you start getting to C+ gear.
in C4 legit players HAD a way to protect their equipment, it is called bsoe. the problem is the non-legit players get free bsoes, because force-logging is essentially the same thing and they have to be reported on it to be banned.
Well I meant unfortunent PvE situations more than PvP.
--Like server crashing
--bad lag
--Having Zaken pop through his door while you are waiting on his ship and 2 shotting you out of your doom plate armor (actually happened)
--being magic crit on by nuker mobs
--being trained
--etc etc
-just a quick reply-
WOW right now is the 'hot' game for people to play, so I suspect that NCsoft will do somethings that are influance by the WOW surge. I just hope those things don't discourge our player base.
And that's whey they are shooting themselves in the foot.
You can't make what is supposed to be a "hardcore pvp game" and then change your mind halfway through it and want to capture some of the people who want a more casual experience.
I come from a different point of view. I believe that people should do what is fun and enjoyable. Someone who is a die hard WoW fan won't like L2 and vice versa. I, in no way, think one game is better than the other but that each game appeals to a completely different type of person.
Having said that.
They should not make L2 easier. They should either A, Make L3 more casual friendly and keep L2 the way it is (with obvious improvements that cater to the people who like the game) or B, make the regular L2 game a real hardcore PvP experience (being able to Pk in cities but huge HUGE penalties if caught, bounties on people's heads, what have you... it would have to be fleshed out) and then make an alternate server for people who don't want to have such a hardcore experience but who still enjoy L2 and want to play it.
Otherwise, they are not going to keep the regular L2 players and will not attract the casual players because L2 will still have a "bad name" as a hardcore game AND in the end, won't be the casual game experience that some people want.
I hear you, sovrath and I do hope that NCsoft doesn't make the game "easier". I think they should do better with the customer service, and they could add somethings that would make the game play better without hurting the hardcore image.
Yeah this game is becomming way too easy. I say let's lower drops by 1/4th, lets lower exp by 1/4th, increase the death penalty 2x, make it so you always drop something when you die, and people who arent in your clan/party get pick up priority for 15 seconds.
That ought to get rid of all those pesky legit players. (**** carebears)
We still have sucky quests, super grind, insane mat prices, 60% recipes. If not wanting to lose 150mil to a server crash is carebear, sign me up.
Like I said elsewhere, they should make you drop from your invo. But high end gear is just to expensive, and now we are going for +6 sets. It makes sense that they add some way for us to protect the extreme investment of time and money that gear represents.
it doesnt make sense. its JUST gear. gear is really not that hard to get back. in fact, it is exactly as hard to get back as it is to get it the first time. gear loss is three of the things that makes this game unique and great. 60% recipies, overenchanting, and chance of dropping on death.
0 Well I meant unfortunent PvE situations more than PvP.
1 Like server crashing
2 bad lag
3 Having Zaken pop through his door while you are waiting on his ship and 2 shotting you out of your doom plate armor (actually happened)
4 being magic crit on by nuker mobs
5 being trained
0 yes, bsoe really isnt for PvP. if you bsoe from a fight, hopefully your enimies chase you down and flag on you again, either they will go red or you will try your chances at killing them, BECAUSE you dont drop anything in PvP.
1 ive never died due to a server crash. ussually the NPCs dont come back until 10 minutes after i log in.
2 bad lag. this is unfortunate, and yes it happens.
3 this is a rare occurrance and i bet if you pettitioned GMs to tell them about this glich you would ahve got your gear back.
4 magic crit happens.
5 this is exactly what bots want. they dont want to loose gear from being trained, and they dont want to get banned from forcelogging. training is our ONLY defense against bots. and real players are CONSIDERABLY harder to train than bots. besides that, griefing happens. i like the idea of playing a game in which not all of the players are nice, caring people.
it doesnt make sense. its JUST gear. gear is really not that hard to get back. in fact, it is exactly as hard to get back as it is to get it the first time. gear loss is three of the things that makes this game unique and great. 60% recipies, overenchanting, and chance of dropping on death.
I love how people can shrug off 20, 50, and 150million. No big deal, just replace it. Some people actually work for what they have. And crafting it the second time IS harder. You don't have the beggining investment of your previous gear, you don't have the same surplus of money and or mats. And farming for gear is hard, the only thing harder is having to start again from scratch. And we already have to do this quite often with 60% crafts.
Although I am all for not dropping equipped stuff. I will say that not having a chance of dropping anything is not L2 like. And it makes perfect sense for items to drop from your invo. It hurts farmers and is a reasonable penalty for the legit player base.
Dropping multi millions of essential gear is not what I see as reasonable, especially in the case of unavoidable situations, and/or griefing. Especially with some of the A grade prices and the +6 sets of C5.
you were wrong twice, before you completed the sentence. first you are wrong because the items you're talking about are NOT WORTH hundreds of millions of adena. they are not impossible to get by farming/crafting yourself, and only a complete moron or a very busy manor farmer would buy them from a sell shop. secondly, the gear is not essential. mystic classes can level to the cap in C grade, fighters in b grade. it doesnt say anywhere in the C1 prima guide that you HAVE to have the best gear to get to the next level.
L2 is WAY to fricking expensive to do anything unless you have a loaded Clan or you Ebay, there is no REAL legit way to get necessary upgrades otherwise.
I doubt that because your statement is just not true.
If you have said there is no fast way i would partitonal agree.
All you need is time and maybe an alt character.
My highest char is bounty hunter and i had no problems to get him to B grade before he did hit 52. Means all the top B grade i had ready before hitted 52. I have 4 additional characters also fitted out. That i dont have my a grade armor set now ready its only i need 3 recipes to try the craft and i just dont need it that bad.
There is no big deal on it you just need time and to work for it. I didnt even do shops much or playin the market like a lot other ppl do. I just collect materials do manor and craft from time to time then sell.
With a running manor new players have it so easy like never before to get in gear. You can make easy 11 mil in one week with manor ( selling materials only ) at lvl 20 and decent gear while only playing 2 hours a day.
Thats only one option there are a lot more ways.
To say there is no real legit way shows only you seem not to have the knowlege to do so or your just to lasy to do.
Having played both L2 and WoW I can tell you that the main atraction players have to WoW is the Cost of Legit items even from the ingame vendors, L2 is WAY to fricking expensive to do anything unless you have a loaded Clan or you Ebay, there is no REAL legit way to get necessary upgrades otherwise. The other main problem with L2 is leveling, it's too **** slow, while WoW is too **** fast. I casually played WoW and hit lvl60 in the same ammount of time it took me to hit 40 while grinding hardcore to hit 40, a happy medium is needed. And of course dropping items at death is seriously wrong once you start getting to C+ gear.
And here we are with a typical sample of the "I want everything right now" generation.
Mum, could you please pre eat that meat and drop it in my mouht.
Nothing comes easy.
And as for your "legit is impossible" the whole boards are laughing at how a bad or not smart player you must be.
I for one have 4 60+ toons all in top B gear with two of them in majestic jewels and half way through their A set.
Do I have to mention I never really got helped from a clan besides an upgrade from Theca to Drake?
My bop is +6, my Carnage is +4.
You just don't seem to play L2 smartly enough.
Now I don't say everything is perfect. Hence the ToI quest threads. That quest is completely 923ed and we all wonder what the devs smoked but nonetheless...
you were wrong twice, before you completed the sentence. first you are wrong because the items you're talking about are NOT WORTH hundreds of millions of adena. they are not impossible to get by farming/crafting yourself, and only a complete moron or a very busy manor farmer would buy them from a sell shop. secondly, the gear is not essential. mystic classes can level to the cap in C grade, fighters in b grade. it doesnt say anywhere in the C1 prima guide that you HAVE to have the best gear to get to the next level.
Essential was an overstatement on my part. What I meant is that, from B grade up each piece is parts of a set. You could wear A grade without a helmet, B grade without a boots or gloves, you could grind to your 60s in D grade if you really reallly wanted to. But basicaly if you are gonna be effective in this game you are gonna replace your dropped gear. Maybe not right away, but you will replace it. Did I say you have to buy them from farmers? No, infact my beef was that for legit players they most likely won't/can't buy them straight out, and they will have to go through the hell of farming the recipe quests, and key mats, and manor, and 60% crafts, etc. And although unlikely could end up spending more cash (due to a few fails, not likely but a realistic probability)
Did I say they we're impossible to replace? NO. They are a pain. A pain to farm for, a pain to quest for, and a pain to fail when crafting. Why add another layer of difficulty?
Should it be easy? no. A grade SHOULD be hard to get. I'm fine with having to wait a chron or two, or bust my -_- to get something worthwhile. But why should I have to bust it twice?
Because I lagged? Because I got magic crit? Because my L2 crit errored?
Or maybe just to make the game that much more ubber hardcore!!!!!11!!!!!!1!!
You said yourself, that BSOE is a pretty good insurance against item loss. If your with a party the 15 second pick up rule is too. Honetly It has been a long time since I haved dropped and item, or gear, and even longer since I lost ANY dropped item to someone. So I don't see how this update makes L2 some casual carebear playground.
The only reason people care about the change, the only way it REALLY effects L2. Is that it makes training farmers unprofitable. Makes training/griefing in general unprofitable.
I would hope that when NcSoft decides on chaages it's what the player base is looking for and not what will keep other people in business. I really don't think when they are setting at a table deciding what to change and how to change it, they dont think about what will help or hurt farmers. They think about what will help or hurt players. Unfortunatley those same things help or hert the farmers.
Remember all those translated changes are all on the Korean PTS for testing. We may never see any of those changes, they are just testing them to see what effect they have on the game. Some I hope we don't see, Some I hope we do.
I have been playing for 2 years and still haven't seen anything that keeps this game from being hardcore. Actually it has gotten harder in some aspects. Drop rate has gotten better then worse, yes it's easier from 1-25 but that helps with new players. It's still very difficult to get to the tiop in this game. Unless you have nothing else in life to do except grind it takes a very long time to get high lvl in this game.
There are things I would like to see. Better drop rate, more farmer bannings, cheaper economy. But I wont hold my breath but I will continue to play this game until the fun stops.
I would hope that when NcSoft decides on chaages it's what the player base is looking for and not what will keep other people in business. I really don't think when they are setting at a table deciding what to change and how to change it, they dont think about what will help or hurt farmers. They think about what will help or hurt players. Unfortunatley those same things help or hert the farmers.
really, i honestly hope thats not where changes come from. game designers ussually have degrees in...game design. players do not know what is best for a game, the customer itsnt always right. if NC took every suggestion from players and implemented it, it would become an abomination that isnt any fun for anyone.
really, i honestly hope thats not where changes come from. game designers ussually have degrees in...game design. players do not know what is best for a game, the customer itsnt always right. if NC took every suggestion from players and implemented it, it would become an abomination that isnt any fun for anyone.
Obviously they don't take every suggestion and implement them. But they do look at player suggestions. Also Just because they designed the game doesn't mean they are all knowing and are the only people who can make it better. Player feedback in a game is what keeps a game growing. If they didnt change the game as players get higher and content becomes stale the game would die. So any smart gaming company will look at what the player bases likes and dislikes are. Doesn't mean they will use them but they atleast look at it.
really, i honestly hope thats not where changes come from. game designers ussually have degrees in...game design. players do not know what is best for a game, the customer itsnt always right. if NC took every suggestion from players and implemented it, it would become an abomination that isnt any fun for anyone.
Obviously they don't take every suggestion and implement them. But they do look at player suggestions. Also Just because they designed the game doesn't mean they are all knowing and are the only people who can make it better. Player feedback in a game is what keeps a game growing. If they didnt change the game as players get higher and content becomes stale the game would die. So any smart gaming company will look at what the player bases likes and dislikes are. Doesn't mean they will use them but they atleast look at it.
You're very correct, but I don't think that is what KFC (always wanted to say that in response to his name :p which is a cool name if you think about it) is saying.
He is saying that game designers shouldn't be reactive to players requests. They SHOULD take them into account. But they SHOULDN'T make knee jerk decisions just because particular players want something now that might make them unhappy in the future.
Then again, these games are sometimes played by extremely diverse groups. Because of this it is very hard to make everyone happy.
That is why I like the idea of different types of servers. When you get people of such varying temperments it makes sense to give them something that they can identify with.
I've always been of the mind that more people (real people :) not our zombified "friends") in game means more money which means more customer service, content, updates, etc.
I know this is a pvp game and quite frankly, people who play it really should realize this. True. But I do see people who say "L2 can be just as big as WoW with the right marketing".
And that's just not true.
Of the friends I have who would even consider an online game, not one of them would touch this game with a 10 foot pole. Open PvP is not to their liking at all. And one of these people hunts, makes his own bullets, doesn't believe in going to cofeee houses because he thinks they are for wusses, etc. Yet, when he sits down to play a video game he doesn't want to engage in open pvp.
Games with very specific gameplay elements, especially games that take some of the gameplay out of the player's hands (leaving the gameplay open, anything can happen) usually appeal to smaller segments of the population.
This goes for non combative games as well. Sims online, for instance. Didn't have a huge following like they thought it would.
Truth of the matter is that not everyone is going to be happy all the time but in the end, happy or not, people vote with their wallets.
If people don't like something they stop paying for it and it becomes a smaller segment of what the population wants. Doesn't mean it's any lesser, but that it just doesn't appeal to everyone.
My parting example... everyone turn on the radio. What do you hear? rock? Techno? Country? Metal?
I would say that you all woudl be hard pressed to find Total Serialsm or any Serialsm whatsoever. You want hardcore music? There really is none that is more Hardcore than that.
Yet I've heard people say that if the general public would just open up their ears (yeah.. they think that not listening to and enjoying this type of music is "carebear"... not those words but it's that sentiment) and start "thinking" and experiencing then Serialism (or even aleatoric music), or Dissonant music could be "big".
haha! my first thought of this was, if these people went to my elementary school, they would have FAILED music class. and maybe shop too. but about 2/3 of the way in it really wasnt that bad. unique even ^^
all i wanna know is...what WAS that guy looking at?? the one with the rocks and pots and drumsticks. it couldnt have been a musical score. i think maybe it was a pic of an ex girlfriend.
PS: lineage good, warcraft bad. lincraft bad.
This game became McWoW the moment it became all about raidbosses. Now clan levels are about raidbosses, crystals are about raidbosses, quests are about raidbosses, subclass is about raidbosses, gear is about raidbosses, farming is about raidbosses, etc. etc.
I sometimes wouldn't mind seeing raidbosses evaporate from the face of Aden, if I wanted the endgame to be all about raids I'd be playing McWoW.
This game became McWoW the moment it became all about raidbosses. Now clan levels are about raidbosses, crystals are about raidbosses, quests are about raidbosses, subclass is about raidbosses, gear is about raidbosses, farming is about raidbosses, etc. etc.
I sometimes wouldn't mind seeing raidbosses evaporate from the face of Aden, if I wanted the endgame to be all about raids I'd be playing McWoW.
LOL I so agree with you. Game advancement shouldn't be based on something controled buy 1% of the players on every server. I have seen so many people quit because of this. Only having a window of a few minutes 2 or 3 times a week to complete a quest really really sucks.
I know there are alot of players like me who work and have other things they have to do and can't spend all our time in game. I like the fact the game is hard but I'm not taking a weeks vacation just to set in front of a screen to complete a quest.
In the beginning of the game there were always ways of getting to almost everything in the game, even as very small groups you would eventually get there. Nowadays you just can't, there's no way to do it.
raid bosses really arent designed with the casual player in mind. you have to camp a boss for a week, in some cases. this makes competition fierce, which should be a good thing in theory, but its just like the manor system; competition is so fierce that real players are driven away because they cannot compete with hardcore bot programs. i wouldnt mind being rid of all drops from raid bosses. let them give xp and unique treasures for special bosses, but thats it. that way, if you feel like doing a raid party one weekend as a break from normal grinding, you could. it would mean less money per xp, but most people only care for xp since they get money elsewhere.
Little off-topic maybe, but I see a lot of players saying about how L2 is a hardcore game. I agree, but not for the reasons they think. L2 is not hardcore beacuse of it's gameplay and the hours you need to play. It's hardcore because of the hours you need to spend on the game without playing it. I mean the hours you need to read about the rules, the gamplay, the mats, the stats, the reciepes, search through forums, reading guides. How many average players could spend so many hours learning the game without getting dissapointed or bored? I am sure not many. This is what makes the game hardcore, not the ingame hardships. To prove my point, I invite you to imagine that a friend of yours who knows nothing of MMORPG wants to start playing L2 today. So he comes to you all excited and asks you to explain the game to him. Think the amount of information you have to pass on to him and the time each of you spent to learn all this. All this doesn't come easy and not all people are ready for such a commitment. So, maybe the NC staff wants to ease it up for new players, at least the ingame burden.
Well I do not see it more difficult than UO for example. Every game has it's catches and specialties. The knowledge is always about "what do you need to know and do in order to achieve this and that". Depends on numbers and annoyancies of those paths to achieve something. But you are right, first time I entered the game, it was like: OK, so here I am, ummm, what now? There was complete lack of any help except on how to click and turn camera :)
Lineage 2 on the other hand has primitive ****-and-slash point-to-click controls. To be honest seeing over friend's shoulder what everything do you need to press and click in WoW was a bit dazzling for me first. Sure, one will get used to it after a while.
You can't make what is supposed to be a "hardcore pvp game" and then change your mind halfway through it and want to capture some of the people who want a more casual experience.
I come from a different point of view. I believe that people should do what is fun and enjoyable. Someone who is a die hard WoW fan won't like L2 and vice versa. I, in no way, think one game is better than the other but that each game appeals to a completely different type of person.
Having said that.
They should not make L2 easier. They should either A, Make L3 more casual friendly and keep L2 the way it is (with obvious improvements that cater to the people who like the game) or B, make the regular L2 game a real hardcore PvP experience (being able to Pk in cities but huge HUGE penalties if caught, bounties on people's heads, what have you... it would have to be fleshed out) and then make an alternate server for people who don't want to have such a hardcore experience but who still enjoy L2 and want to play it.
Otherwise, they are not going to keep the regular L2 players and will not attract the casual players because L2 will still have a "bad name" as a hardcore game AND in the end, won't be the casual game experience that some people want.
You just can't retrofit.
I want to say I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. But I've had far too many experiences with seeing far too many people quit the game because of disgruntlement over the level grind or harsh death penalty.
Ideally NC is going to spend a huge amount of time looking at the big problems of L2 in order to ensure they don't repeat the same mistakes (hint hint-make seperate altertnate rule servers from the beginning to catpure both the risk averse and risk loving crowds as well as servers which cater to player's who have differing amounts of time to spend leveling, it really sucks the fun right out through your nose when you try to trudge through a grind meant only for someone who has no job or other responsibilities when you are loaded with them yourself, find a way to make mobs consistently drop at least marginally interesting and useful items, get rid of shots, add instances as well as maintaing the current types of areas we have now so once again you can cater to the instance runner and killer of respawns with the same same hand, etc. etc.). But really, I see no reason why they can't look at the problems of L2 to fix the mistakes in L2. Now we can say that every player of L2 who is still playing is playing because they like everything exactly as it currently is. But that statement rings falsely. For there are any number of players who have played since this game's inception who continue to play inspite of what for them are glaring problems. They simply believe the good is outweighing the bad. So we have two types already who coexist, those who play because of, and those who play inspite of. Now it would stand ot reason that by catering to the because of, you are negatively effecting the inspite of, and vice versa.
The rightness of changing the game for the inspite ofs at the detriment of the because ofs could be a series of long discussions and heated arguments. Either it is ok to harm some people to make some other people better, or it is right to keep people from being worse off in order to keep someone else from becoming worse off, with regards ot the degree of change each type of person would be receiving.
Now clearly, everyone who wasn't happy with things as they are, should simply quit and move on to another game. Afterall, why spoil a good martini by adding vermouth? But the problem isn't so cut and dry. Without having all the inspite ofs, the because ofs mgith very well be left with a much emptier server, and owing to need of this game for having access to other people, what would be left for the because ofs when they lost a horde of inspite ofs? Or would the because ofs then become the inspite ofs, quitting themselves.
Now it is for the because ofs that this game was made the way it is. The inspite ofs are the all the plants trying to survive in a desert. Well, that is true assuming each because of is solely a because of and is in no area an inspite of. But, is any person here truly content with the game exactly as it is now? Any person who is this perect because of, could not have been a perfect because of in C3, or C2, or C1 or Prelude. And a perfect because of in C3 could not be a perfect because of now, as the game between the two chronicles changed. In all aspects then, each person who is or was a because of, has been habitually made into an inspite of. Or more easily, each person can find somne things about the game they don't like now, some things they didn't like before, and some things they'd like to see changed. Conversely, because the game is always changing, no one ever remains a perfect inspite of, no one ever remains in a position where they disklike every single thing about L2.
A perfect change, would move someone from being inspite of to being because of, though the change might not make a person perfectly because of, it need only make them because of in one area in which they were inspite of.
Now since we have a plethora of people, it wouldn't be wrong to say for every different aspect of the game, we will find someone who is because of and someone who is inspite of. Thus by not changing a particular aspect, you harm every inspite of, but by changing that aspect of the game you harm every because of. We are playing a hand of poker here, the best outcome is for everyone to equally lose and take back what they put in.
Every change we've seen has benefitted some and harmed others, this would be no exception. The fact that this particular change is aimed at what some see as the core gameplay really changes nothing. If the core gameplay was flawed, there is no reason not to change it, the main argument must discuss and solely focus on whether or not it was broken. We need to know whether the greater harm comes fron changing it, or from not changing it.
And as far as WoW and instances go, adding instances to L2 would not really harm many people. Since the fields and dungeons would still remains as they are, those people who are in love with killing mob respawns could still keep on doing what they've been doing. But I for one, see nothing very great about killing five mobs, then waiting around for them to respawn, then rinsing and repeating 10,000 times to gain a level.