a friend an i are gonna roll a tyrant and a destroyer. at first the WC would be our buffer mainly because its an orc :P and most the wc buffs do nice things to both our classes.
we are rolling them on franz so money isnt available :P and with that in mind, the SE didnt make it as our buffer because we cant spend alot of coin on haste pots.
the prophet came to mind. its just missing one thing, being VR. with 2 hard hitting orcs VR should be enough to keep on rolling, so... kind of a dillema here
wc misses some buffs and a targetable heal/root
prophet misses VR, and is a human which is ugly :p does have zerk offcourse which might be nice.
the SE is missing haste.. and a tyrant without haste is a sad tyrant
so what are your views on this ? what should we get
and yes there might be a million other topics about this but im to lazy to search :p
zerk is nice and all, but its offensive boosting capabilities doesnt necessarily outweigh its defensive nerfing, especially in C5 with zerk giving -4 evasion
Empower is very nice if you ever decide to sub a nuker, or 1 of you decide to reroll to nuker or something
SE also has recharge, so you can give your 2 DDs some mp whenever your SE is full, for more spamming of specials
SE also has actually useful heals, in case things gets hairy or you get trained or similar
And VR is just crazy
haste2 pots are always a flat cost (and alacrity is a decent and cheap substitute, affordable almost from the start of the game) while VR helps you avoid healing potion costs, which will just rise and rise since as you progress in the game you will take more and more damage
In my opinion SE > PP for all classes but archers, since archers dont need VR
Of cource, doing both PP and SE would be optimal :)
Id not go WC, we get our buffs so late, cant panic heal, dont get empower or recharge, dont get zerk, nor WW (which is v nice for slow orc melee :P) and WCs melee capability isnt really being used, since it will be a buff bot
A point to remember is the level at which your buffer gets the useful buffs. At high levels the WC probably is the best buffer but they don't get VR1 until 44, haste2 at 56, VR2 at 58, and focus3 at 68. Prophets get focus3 and haste2 at 52. SE's get VR1 at 30 and VR3 at 58. Also remember that the WC doesn't have WW so without pots you are going to be slow orcs (esp. the Destroyer) and a longer time between mobs means a slower kill speed.
A main bonus to the WC is their ability to help deal damage so if this toon is just meant as a buff/heal pet the WC loses some.
That said I suggest you get a SE, VR is just too good and the WC gets buffs too late. Without VR (with a prophet) I worry about downtime for mp to heal/buff, spamming hp pots costs more than alacrity pots. The SE won't need to heal much (no downtime) and a simple alacrity potion isn't too expensive and is very effective, you don't need GSA pots.
plz dont forget .. like i mentioned i like being fast :P so in that case i DO care for haste 2 :P what i should be looking at is, will i have the money for when it starts to matter, which will be the lvl the proph gets his first haste.
you pulled some good reasons to get a SE. i know how sick VR is especially with 2 classes that can pack a punch, and even more so when they start to die. what might be the most important is, how will it be after say lvl 50-60. after the wc got a good share of the good buffs, wouldnt all hes missing be a lack of a good heal ? offcourse thism ight be a bigger problem then i think.. but all the times i duod with wcs or when i had my overlord in a clan party, VR and my heal seemed enough to keep most any party alive
anyway, there is to many factors involved for me to be sure yet.
feel free to add more to make it more easy on me :)
Perhaps making an OL, which is great if u get in a bad situation, mass bind and all is good. VR probly wont be a big deal not having because 2 orcs have a ton of HP, so if u get low hp while useing chant of life, ur doing something wrong.
The only offensive buffs OL get are might and zerk -and guidance, if you'd call that offensive. While the seals can be a nice life saver, OL buffs don't boost damage much.
I'm thinking a warcryer would be a good decision, even though they get the buffs later, you just need ww pots - unless you get another friend to roll an OL, which would be great^^ (or something else with ww, since OL gets ww rather late).
Even though WC gets late upgrade to buffs, I think you'll do good. Contrary to popular belief you don't absolutely need the best of the best as soon as it become avalable to you :)
Contrary to popular belief you don't absolutely need the best of the best as soon as it become avalable to you :)
Cham is right =P get that WC in there and have a 3rd Orc ^^. At 44 with vamp rage your Chant of Life should be enough when needed.
Honestly think, are you really that intent on having an SE without Haste because they get VR at 30? How long are you gonna spend till u make 44 and it all changes =P.
Honestly think, are you really that intent on having an SE without Haste because they get VR at 30? How long are you gonna spend till u make 44 and it all changes =P.
yeah exactly
getting to 44 is no big deal especially when you have a solid duo partner
at 70+ you'll be glad you have all those buffs
the SE seemed like a decent choise because if recharge and good heals, but not having haste seemed like a biggy :p
the prophet missing VR is just a shame :P else im pretty sure i wouldve picked him. even though orcs are powerhouse when it comes to taking hits, if needed theres plenty of ways to stay at lower hp, and its easyer to maintain it with vr on. although i heared some destroyers not wanting vr :p well who cares hehe
WC really does seem like a solid pick, all the melee buffs you NEED, berzerk wouldve been nice but isnt that big of a plus, no ww can be fixed with pots or have the tyrant pull hehe. just dont have some of the extras the prophet might have trown in the party.
wel thx for the tips, i think we got the info we need :)
Warcryer will make excellent trio out of you. It can do moderate damage also. Melee should have VR! If you want to get buffs little sooner, get SE. With PP later you will need healer 100%.
With VR and WRC or SE heals you won't need it at all, just find the right spot to hunt.
Having played a Destroyer to lvl66, beginning in C2, my advise is the following:
Get a Prophet first. Prophet gets the basic buffs early, and gets buffs that are very important to you later.
With those buffs I mean: Windwalk2, Berzerk, Bless the Body, Regeneration, Haste2, (Greater Might)
Guidance, Focus and Deathwhisper come early on prophets too.
Don't worry about VR, as a trio the Tyrant and Destroyer can take turns in tanking and with your CON that's enough for regenerating in combat.
If you use BTB instead of Battle Rawr, you can still use your skills early and you can use it to heal yourself when the skill activated, which is nessessary, since with frenzy and rage running NOTHING will pull a mob away from the destroyer.
When you reach Bgrade, you'll need VR, but there'll be plenty of VR buffers available at you hunting grounds following other groups, trade your prophets haste and BTB/BTS for their VR.
dunno if i feel like having to look around to find a SE to give us vamp :p still the idea of a PP still sounds interesting mostly because i like the buffs early :P
about the haste pots.. like i said i MIGHT buy them, but im sure it`ll take a while to have enough cash to start stocking on them.
the thing is i heared some destroyers say they dont like VR mostly because they want to get low hp to be able to use their skills, and with VR on them it would be harder, or near impossible unless you let them wack you for a bit, which doesnt sound like a real good plan :p
and back to the WC, i feel that BTB and BTS are good buffs for orcs since the boost is conciderable, and berzerk does wonders on strong or fast dmg classes.. the drop in pdef however might not be that good since you dont have VR to back it up with :p
in the end it comes down to this.. i should have both a PP and a SE :P but sadly that aint a option hehe
good things come to those that wait...WC at high levels are awesome. I'd say get a WC, and once you reach lvl 20 you can get into the cata and farm seal stones to get swift pots and haste pots and GHP. So by the time the WC gets all the good stuff...you won't need to use your seal stones for pots, just from reses and enchants
i know how good WC get at higher lvl, my friend has a 74 on hind. what i was pointing out that the WC does "lack" a few skills that might be a real good addition to the party. like btb btm berzerk ww, and a form of targatable heal wouldnt hurt
and!.. im not sure if its true that some destroyers hate vr :p
I see from your toon-list, that you have a lot of experience in playing a destroyer (no offense).
I do have a lot of experience with playing a destroyer, having a (real, not pony) prophet with me most of the time.
I don't hate VR, I like it in small parties against not that hard mobs and when other DDs are in the party.
If I am the only DD or if there's just one other, then I prefer not having VR, because it takes the mobs about the same amount of time to get me back to frenzy-lvl that it takes frenzy to load up again. And I do a LOT more dmg with frenzy&rage running (1 or 2 hits per 6xhp mob).
If the warcryer is around and I automatically get the VR, I sometimes even take the breastplate off, to get enough dmg.
VR does help getting the HP up again, though.
All I'm saying is that I don't hate VR, but if I have to go without it in a medium or large party, it's ok.
I would not like to miss the prophet buffs, just for VR.
as in the extra prophet buffs that you wouldnt get when you had a WC instead ?
which buffs are you mainly talkin about then ? btb btm ww and berzerk ?? i dont party with prophets all to often so i dont really know if they got more :p
I don't hate VR, I like it in small parties against not that hard mobs and when other DDs are in the party.
If I am the only DD or if there's just one other, then I prefer not having VR, because it takes the mobs about the same amount of time to get me back to frenzy-lvl that it takes frenzy to load up again. And I do a LOT more dmg with frenzy&rage running (1 or 2 hits per 6xhp mob).
can always remove ur amor^^
in addition its fairly easy to get to frenzy lvl with a conversion weap.
Why not just roll two buffers? And by two, I mean a Warcryer and Overlord. You would get your heals, your buffs, your other buffs, and keep the whole Orc thing going.
I guess you have the 2 people for the one DD and the warcryer (or whatever you choose), but if there is a 4th friend who would like to tag along, an OL would be a great addition :)
like i said. i play a OL now and i cant say we are that great of an addition in any way :p unless you get stupid and need a AE root haha. pve wise that is offcourse
:eek:
They may not be essential for the type of parties you're going to have. I'm just speaking from my own experience, and my experience with partying with OLs is great :)
To tell you the truth, when I posted, I was somewhat "blinded" by the fact that they have fit in so well in my parties :p
well they named the OL as a buffbot :P so the only buffs added by a ol would be bless shield ( not important ) WW and berzerk, and only berzerk is really combat supern :P ww pots can be bougtht
well man...I've yet to have a chance to play a tryant (I really want to try it tho)
but from what I hear. Destro and tryant in C5 wants their HP to hit low cause of their skills like zelot, guts and frenzy.
AS some pointed out you can use a convertion SA...but thats a added cost for lil reason, or remove your armor.
But personally I like the idea of PP for your set up. and maybe at some later point a SE..but they are so commin that you can go with out and just use the PP.
untill you can get your PP to 52, you can subsitute AA from cata's (which I'm sure you'd be lvling in..from the sound of things) for GSAP's...then after the PP hits 52 uses the rest for GHP's.
Don't forget that PP gets alot of good buffs that make them great (GM, GS, M bar, Men sheild, btb, bts, zerk, haste).
seriously you don't want to keep pooring money into GSAP's...it's a really bad money sink!
I play Tyrant, from 40 to 52 i lvled him up with SE and alacrity potions. VR may not be good for Destroyers, but just for Destroyers.. for a Tyrant in Light Armour VR is very important. I had tatoo's 2x +4STR -4CON so with VR you hardly need heals with the massive amount of dmg you do.
WC is medium DD, yes its true but dont forget you may have hard time playing 2 computers targeting mobs.
As some ppl mentioned here, WC's get buffs very very late. Unless you'll be playing with your friend all the time, having a WC is not a good opiton early in game.
I also got PP 52+. Her btb btm and haste2 buffs help great. But you can simply do without them.
As 2 dd's you'll be needing basic buffs - str, shield, focus, and dw.. so the rest is bonus. Both PP and SE get these buffs at same lvls.
However later in game if you'll be wanting to reroll nukers, SE will be good choice. Else go for WC if you got the patience to lvl him 60+.
Anyway, you have a diffucult choice ahead. But PP should be the last buffer you should consider in this case. HF