Trying to reson with people, who are not native to Elmore is futile. We cannot blame the weaker races for their actions. They are all like little childs, who are happy, that they are ahead in a game and who will rather drop the playfield of the table than loose to anyone.
So you cannot expect any reasonable reply of any non-Dwarf here or even expect "them" to just shut up and care for their own business of "whaaaaaa, my sleep got nerved !" and "buaahahhhhhhh, why does I no gets that skillz from that others class !" and the always famous "I thinks, that all races should be able to craft!" and "Me thinks, that all materials shoul dbe sold in shops."
Personally I would already be happy, if the guards of Elmore would insta-kill anyone, who is not a Dwarf or Orc, and for double exp loss. Those elfies and humans deserve nothing better.
First there is the spoil. Which is just great fun as you really want to have a chance to spoil every type of mob at least once! That and the fact that a lot of money is made with spoiling. As for having no uber combat skills. Thats true, but that stun does nasty things to poor elves. And dwarfs have very very good HP. Not as good as the Orcs, but still way better then anybody else.
Then there is the warsmith path. They get a nice if yet way to expensive (C-crystals for a D-grade class is silly) summon to help them level. And they can make money while being afk. There is a lot of money in soulshots.
So yes, they don't have **** combatskills, but they aint a bad race. But you do need to have the dwarven mindset. Dwarfs crave to make money and if you like doing that, then the dwarf is a good race to play.
Guys, stop turning the Dwarves, like you need them, for the right argument.
All the time, people say "Oh, dwarves are not bad. They got Stun, they got lots of HP and they do good damage."
But then it comes to spoil sharing, they then say "bah, you are a dwarf, you are not contributing anything to the party. You do not do any damage, you cannot tank, so you need to spoil or get the heck out of the group."
I just think the male dwarf is the wrong type to be a mage...
I think alot of it has to do with the visual age difference between the two.
I just wanted to hear that. Although Id cut the dwarves mystic capabilities to making potions and scrolls, not real attack or healing magic...they already get bandage you know :)
after a convoluted thread i hesitate to jump in but.........<jumps>
1. The dwarf fighter is atrocious to play. I'm on my third and anyone who has never tried it should just shut up.
2. The first 'fix' for dwarves is to give them higher PATK!!!!!
3. It might be helpful to add one 'special' of any kind at least from 10-20 for christsakes.
4. After executing the guy in development who came up with the dwarf quests, let's make them just a wee bit less freakin complicated and particularly that WS quest----for the love of god it takes HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF ADENA to complete!!!!! What the hell is up with that?
5. Forget magic--the dwarves should be able to stomp/strike the ground and create a damage inflicting tremor, or throw boulders, or craft a machine gun for use by dwarves only--something.
Dwarves deserve love too! As for young dwarves???? Compared to other races they're getting hosed. A light elf fighter gets specials, a dark elf fighter gets specials, an orc fighter---don't even get me started!!!! A moron could level an orc fighter to 20 in a short time!
The only comparably screwed fighter class is human--though they get specials they are hampered by comparative slowness and weakness so it's similar (but still better) to dwarf.
Topic of post was 'right on', btw.
Junior Dwarf--Devianne (19 and facing artisan quest again for some reason i can't quite explain)
dwarfs dont care for battle, thats why they lack the skills for it :/
i knew it when they started
anyway, kitten guys, i mosstly agreed to you in the passed, but now :/
they were talking about pvp. most of them even 1 vs 1. dwarfs can get high pdef and high hp, this makes them able to "tank" one guy in pvp pretty well. in PVE however they dont have the means to hold agro which means they cant tank pve unless they somehow outdmg everyone else and that isnt very likely.
i have always made alt scavangers, after a certain lvl i do get bored with them, but you rather use your mp for a special then for spoil? what kind of dwarf are you 0.o
most classes in this game only got 1 usefull special to use, the other is just show or a waste of mp. just look at the archer in pvp, buffed they do way more dmg the uysing a special, so you only see them stunshot and just shoot people after that.
now im not saying dwarfs shouldnt get anything at all, but i dont think they are that bad either way. personally i like dwarfs in party because of share spoil.... if i dont get the spoil its obvious id pick another class that does more then hit a mob, and that is to actually kill it faster.
increasing their patk however is not the way, because i feel its against the lore. dwarfs care for cash, not for war, so them getting strong all of the sudden isnt the way. atleast... not just like that
what they could do is make the dwarfs actually able to craft/summon whatever some kind of weapon upgrade that is only for dwarves. dwarves dont "deserve" to become the next dagger class because thats not their design, but i personally dont see why a dwarf could keep their spoils AND do less/same dmg as everyone else... i rather not take a dwarf and kill stuff faster :/
I want a true dwarven mage that specializes in Earth magic.
Other than that, I love the dorfs. I play many of them.
/signed
Dwarves need geomancy. I doubt it will ever happen unless there is a basis for an original dwarf mystic-type class in L1 (a game I'm not familiar with), but I'd still like to see some sort of mystic option for dwarves. Not a pure nuker or healer, but something a little off-beat (like how the orcs have WC and OL for their mystic classes, which are very different from any other mystic classes in the game).
Who says Woodsman is one of those who don't want to party dwarves (even without sharing spoil)?
I also party with artisans and like them as the sturdy fighters they are.
But yes, when I can get them I WANT to party with a bounty hunter. Why? because as I see it, DD deal damage, Buffers buff, DD/SWS boost effectiveness, healers heal and BH gives more profit. For me they are essential.
IMO, the spoil share is the BEST thing that happened to the bounty hunter. Instead of being a liability that had to rely on nice clannies to get a group, they became a much wanted asset to any group they are in. I know BH's (and not because of glowy weaponry which he doesnt have) that are welcomed into any group, not just their own clan/allies.
Would I begrudge to give them a bit more fighting prowess? No way, I suffer trying to bring a warsmith up and feel their pain (grrrrr which idiot thought about having a summon that uses up C-Crystals for a level 20-40 character?). But they are not a hopeless class.
Dwarves need geomancy. I doubt it will ever happen unless there is a basis for an original dwarf mystic-type class in L1 (a game I'm not familiar with), but I'd still like to see some sort of mystic option for dwarves.
Not saying anything against dwarven mystics, but by the time of L1 (which is after L2), the Dwarves are most probably wiped out. At least, there isn't a single one in the game. But then, what little there is to see of the former kingdom of Elmore is overrun by the undead.
I'd much rather have other fighter classes available, though - stuff like a Dwarven Defender (tank) or Berserker (melee damage dealer).
My guy just recently leveled his WS to 75, gets his quests and all that good stuff done. What does he go and sub....
A bounty hunter. The man loves his dwarves, and as he puts it he wants to be the "Ultimate Dwarf". Supply his own crafting habits. ^_^ I just say he's a sucker for punishment.
A true Warsmith can only subclass a BH as any non-dwarven class is a "step down" in any aspect.
But beware, the moment he makes it to Hero on that char, Lineage2 will shut down its service, as the worst possible difficulty scenary would have been beaten.
But beware, the moment he makes it to Hero on that char, Lineage2 will shut down its service, as the worst possible difficulty scenary would have been beaten.
first thing i done when i hit 75 was to sub bh
obviously just a joke because there is no way im playing another dwarf to 75
and i agree if that guy makes hero, he wins.
nothing harder than being a ws with a bh sub
I still think it would be cool to have dwarven alchemist or dwarven gadgeteer.
You read my mind. I'm not quite sure what to do with scavs/BH
But warsmiths have skill potential out the wazoo. They could throw potions or explosives. Instead of just having summons, they could have much much quicker "magic" like skills, where they summon/transmute, or quickly build a machine for that specific spell. Where a magic character might collect a ball of wind, or stand in an aura. They would pull a contraption up out of that ground, and use it until it disappears after the spell.
This could make them a bit more interesting, and give them a bit more capabilities in groups and PvP.
regardless of the overall value to the community, they keep taking from dwarfs, but they don't give anything to balance the taking out. If you are gonna nerf their money making potential, and make their few unique skills widely available. Then at least give them some skills. UNIQUE skills.
Since they're the ones crafting the scissors, grinding the rocks and making paper machines, dwarves should be able to cheat at that "rock paper scissors" pvp thing.
Since they're the ones crafting the scissors, grinding the rocks and making paper machines, dwarves should be able to cheat at that "rock paper scissors" pvp thing.
Period.
haha
you'd think they would at least make them selves some better jewles
a 61 necro with -12 men has more mdef than a third class dwarf wearing the same jewles
Who says Woodsman is one of those who don't want to party dwarves (even without sharing spoil)?
I also party with artisans and like them as the sturdy fighters they are.
But yes, when I can get them I WANT to party with a bounty hunter. Why? because as I see it, DD deal damage, Buffers buff, DD/SWS boost effectiveness, healers heal and BH gives more profit. For me they are essential.
IMO, the spoil share is the BEST thing that happened to the bounty hunter. Instead of being a liability that had to rely on nice clannies to get a group, they became a much wanted asset to any group they are in. I know BH's (and not because of glowy weaponry which he doesnt have) that are welcomed into any group, not just their own clan/allies.
Would I begrudge to give them a bit more fighting prowess? No way, I suffer trying to bring a warsmith up and feel their pain (grrrrr which idiot thought about having a summon that uses up C-Crystals for a level 20-40 character?). But they are not a hopeless class.
You mean share spoil was the best thing for the non bh. Why? Because they could get rich without having the burden of playing one. Share spoil and craft shops are the worst thing that ever happened to the dwarf race. Hence why you don't see many dwarves around anymore. Only alt dwarves for carrying and selling stuff in giran. Me hitting lvl 78 on my Fortune Seeker is considered a rare event.
No one would ever lvl a dwarf that high while sharing spoils and 1a craft shops. Most people say "Oh yeah, I'll share spoils with everyone, thats what BH is suppose to do!" Notice those people don't have dwarves as their mains. Its called hypocrites.
a bh can spoil 10+ animal bones in apo alone.
just selling for 1000 a peice thats 10k for one mob. No other class can do this. You dont want to share your spoils fine dont. You dont get enough kicks out of your summons fine.
I love playing with dwarves and they dont have to be a bh for them to get a party. I have always had the best luch with them training in the necs.
They get pole masteries and blunts, spoil, dwarven craft, crystalize , and 4 summons. I am sorry that in c5 you wont have the ability to power level yours or your friends alts anymore with big boom.
I always see people complaining about their dowarves and the skill set. There is no class that can make money easier than a dwarf but that doesnt count becuse you dont have mage abilities... so what ask an summoner over 6x if they light the fact the dont get nukes and have to live by their summons.
Another thing most of you people dont even use your summons. Half the time they arent even out. Dont underestimate mechanical golem as a good sidekick.
People want uniqness to the dwarven class... it is the most unique class in the game as far as I am concerned. It may be boring but then again maybe you arent using all your skills for what they are worth.
I have played a ws but gave it up since my gf plays one and we didnt need to double up. I play a bd as my main and with an se we tear up any cata have never had a problem getting levels. My 56 bh is ok to play when i need money. I get my healer i get my animal bones and I sell them to those buy shops at those high prices that eveyrone complains about.
Can tell you what it is going to be like 7x she hasnt made it that far yet but 6x seems to be fun. PVP ... dont underestimate that stun and that hp... dwaves have saved my but many times in pvp because people seem to ignore them at first.
There are no mobs in apo, ascetics, or patriots on hinde. There are 9 or 18 bots in each room and they *will* go red on you if you try to train them. They'll be washed and have other bots taken their place by the time you get back.
About the crafty stuff. All classes can craft, it's not a skill unique to dwarves.
Mechanical golem can't be used in PVE because it takes xp. If you're in a party with 5 members, the xp loss would be the equivalent of adding 3 more members if you summoned the golem.
Bots or not, I have never had a problem finding a room.
Second I said dwarven craft and everyone knows that all classes can craft them selves a soul bow. Great i can craft a a healing pot and hairpin. I would like to see all the other classes that have craft as you say make their own shots. It cant be done with out a dwarf you lose.
Ohh and 15% being the additon of 3 more players? Since when do summons take group xp? Wow dude you are smokin some serious stuff, concidering thats wives tail. Go to l2pets or retest for yourself. Oh wait you retired and rerolled on a different server.
Bots or not, I have never had a problem finding a room.
Second I said dwarven craft and everyone knows that all classes can craft them selves a soul bow. Great i can craft a a healing pot and hairpin. I would like to see all the other classes that have craft as you say make their own shots. It cant be done with out a dwarf you lose.
Ohh and 15% being the additon of 3 more players? Since when do summons take group xp? Wow dude you are smokin some serious stuff, concidering thats wives tail. Go to l2pets or retest for yourself. Oh wait you retired and rerolled on a different server.
You have no clue what your talking about. EVERYONE can craft and at the sametime they make more MONEY than the crafter. Why? Because they don't have to take the time to buy the expensive recipe and make up the money they loss. All you have to do is pay the dwarf 50k or something to make a 80m weapon you sell to someone else. Yeah it can't be done without the dwarf, but anyone can bot up a WS to 62 and make him perma afk in town to craft. You don't need multiple dwarves to do this, only 2 or 3.
50 k to create an 80 mill weapon? HAHA.
I am sorry but i go to dwarven craft shops to make that uber bow and guess what ... I have to have the recipe as well as all the other mats needed to create the item in the first place.
And if you think that any player can just go out and get the peices that they need, I think you need to try comming from the other side.
IF i could make any item I wanted for 50k then all there would be is craft shops and no sell shops , and no inflation.
Second your a warsmith.. why dont you do the same thing. You dont need to pay anyone for a craft shop, you can find all the mats you need and if you need more mats like cbp then you can craft that too! The only thing that any other toon cant do is set up a craft shop like you. Think before you speak. Cause you can make the money on both sides of the fence you just choose not to.
50 k to create an 80 mill weapon? HAHA.
I am sorry but i go to dwarven craft shops to make that uber bow and guess what ... I have to have the recipe as well as all the other mats needed to create the item in the first place.
And if you think that any player can just go out and get the peices that they need, I think you need to try comming from the other side.
IF i could make any item I wanted for 50k then all there would be is craft shops and no sell shops , and no inflation.
Second your a warsmith.. why dont you do the same thing. You dont need to pay anyone for a craft shop, you can find all the mats you need and if you need more mats like cbp then you can craft that too! The only thing that any other toon cant do is set up a craft shop like you. Think before you speak. Cause you can make the money on both sides of the fence you just choose not to.
Someone needs to break it down for you, because your not comprehending. I'm a lvl 78 dwarf, so yea I know how things go down.
Dwarf=needs 2 recipes to make something. One for the craft book the other to craft. Lets say the dwarf brought draconic bow rec, that costs around 300m. And he sets up his/her craft shop for 1m per craft for drac bow. He needs 300 attempts to try to craft the drac bow. Thats VERY VERY unlikely. So there for he loses out big time.
Non dwarf=needs 1 recipe to make something because he just finds one of the eight craft shops in town. They don't need to buy 2 recs. So it saves them alot of money. All they have to do is click the little craft shop and hope it works.
And if you think that any player can just go out and get the peices that they need
What else do you think happens? Do you believe there are live dwarves out their spoiling and happy little dwarves crafting? Think again man. Normal non dwarf players do everything easier and better than the actual dwarf classes! Manor system for mats and craft shops for crafting.
2nd your problem i think is your only focused on one of the most expensive weapons in the game instead of everything else.
3rd Your absolutly right about I can just go get the mats myself, what was i thinking .
All mobs drop warsmith holders, and durable metal plate and mithril alloy. I completely forgot the drop rate was 1/2 and that I have a better chance at collecting these than I do finding the mats needed to have another dwarf craft yet another expense that chews into what we have to do.
Good thing for you that you probably have those recipies already in your list and probably have already made your money back from them one way or another.
But wait !!! I have the manor system that is constantly bombarded by bots!! A minute late on that one today , maybe i will wait till tomorrow.
See you seem to miss that. A bounty hunter can gather the mats faster than any other class. Everyone else can either take 10 times as long to do it or they can buy it at inflated prices that arent worth it.
The maner system isnt availible to dwarves? And craft shops for things that you probably already have reciepes for saves you from having to go looking for that craft shop. Now you have all the materials that you need to make the soul bow and probably got them cheaper too crafting up instead of buying out right or paying someone else to do it for you. At this point you have an important decision to make... Make the bow at someone elses craft shop like everyone else does or register it and find another recipe.
You have the choice that everyone else doesnt.
Come on man, I really dont think that people will put everything they have in to a soulbow for a craft shop. If thats the only thing in your craft shop thats your problem not mine or anyone elses.
I am not saying that dwarves should all be billionares but your ability to make money is far greater.
While you sleep do your bread n butter craft shop or sell what ever you dont need.
But dont say that every other class makes more money than a dwarf and easier at that when you can do everything we can + some
I want a true dwarven mage that specializes in Earth magic.
Other than that, I love the dorfs. I play many of them.
I could only see the dwaven female being a mage....
heres something good...just ignore the posts previously asking about your lvling habits and the orc you play to answer a thread 5 posts down. How can a person complain about a class they are playing in the teens. I don't get this guy and why anyone cares what you have to say about the game. While I'm sure you are a good person in RL this isn't it. What class gets stun in their teens? none so why would a dwarf that is an overpowered skill for such a low lvl toon. Dwarfs get what they get deal with it and certainly don't come on here wasting our time reading a post by you and your lvl 13 dwarf.......God you piss me off, you have no credability in game yet you act like you know something on these boards. 923 get your guy to lvl 52 and then come on here and share your opinions about how nerfed dwarfs are!!!!
dwarven fighters also get spoil sweep and create item =/
I think the problem is with dorfs is that they level to 7x and then complain that the class sucks. I mean what the hell if it sucks why do they play it so much? Old fat guys cant be that impressive.
I dont want to hear that they didnt know that the skill tree sucked.
If anyone says will i thought that they would change it in later chronicles is out of luck pure and simple.
dwarven fighters also get spoil sweep and create item =/
I think the problem is with dorfs is that they level to 7x and then complain that the class sucks. I mean what the hell if it sucks why do they play it so much? Old fat guys cant be that impressive.
I dont want to hear that they didnt know that the skill tree sucked.
If anyone says will i thought that they would change it in later chronicles is out of luck pure and simple.
Its not the skill tree that sucks. Everyone sees it probably before they decide to play them. Its just that the skill tree doesn't show 1a craft shops and share spoil. Those two are what negates the dwarvern skill tree.
dwarven fighters also get spoil sweep and create item =/
I think the problem is with dorfs is that they level to 7x and then complain that the class sucks. I mean what the hell if it sucks why do they play it so much? Old fat guys cant be that impressive.
I dont want to hear that they didnt know that the skill tree sucked.
If anyone says will i thought that they would change it in later chronicles is out of luck pure and simple.
Its not the skill tree that sucks. Everyone sees it probably before they decide to play them. Its just that the skill tree doesn't show 1a craft shops and share spoil. Those two are what negates the dwarvern skill tree.
It isn't the 1a craft shops or spoil share that get me...its the absolutely crap spoil tables and drops/manor that make spoiling almost negligable and casual/personal crafting an expense instead of income/advantages.
I will agree with you on 1a craft shops , i dont get it.
I tried once to let a bh that was poleing for us keep all his spoils he refused, said it wasnt fair to the group. I insisted that i was only there for the xp still he insisted that he share.
7th, while I try to understand what you are trying to say, you may not realize a few things.
When I made my WS, I could craft anything if I had the skill level. I was actually a help to my alliance because I could craft what they wanted. Then came the spell book limitations and the craft shops. And also the spoil sharing for BH's.
Those were NOT in the game when I started my dwarf. I knew everything about the dwarf class when I started mine. I always do my research before I make a character. I was willing to make those sacrifices then for the potential benifts of playing one.
NCSoft totally screwed us and continue to do so, but by the time they did that, I was already leveling and couldn't go back or reroll be cause of the time invested, etc.
I went through the pain of leveling my WS to 75...and for what? So that I could sub and be useful once again.
I suggest you go level a dwarf to level 75 and then come back and post your opinions. The dwarves that are left on their mains will all be on subs in the future. Lineage1, which I played for 2 years, is supposed to be a sequel to Lineage2. Lineage1 doesn't even have dwarves. That tells me that the entire race has died out by then, and it's no wonder after all we've had to put up with.
The Dev's have already said we are getting no more combat skills, but maybe some economic skills. That's fine if you're a bot or an alt money/mat maker, but if you play one as your main, you're doomed to sub something else. This is PvP game, bottom line. Even if you can make a little bit of money due to some change in mechanics, how will that make you a factor in this game?
All the money you could ever make, even as the game used to be, will still mean that you are a dwarf, period. NCSoft's previous track record has proved one thing for sure. If a class is under-played, they get improvements. If they are over-played or popular, they get nerfed. Every bot group has a dwarf and many people have dwarf alts for spoiling/crafting.
I'm not ranting, I have made the transistion past 75, but many other MAIN dwarves have not. I would urge you to level a dwarf to 75, and then come back and post your replies. Let us all know how easy we have it.
There are no mobs in apo, ascetics, or patriots on hinde. There are 9 or 18 bots in each room and they *will* go red on you if you try to train them. They'll be washed and have other bots taken their place by the time you get back.
Funny you'd say that since I've been in catas for 3 weeks now and always gotten a room.
Bots or not, I have never had a problem finding a room.
Great. But I've been wanting to level in ascetics for what, 2 months now? Every single room that I'm able to do has 1 or 2 full bot trains in it.
Edit: some shots.
This was less than a day after dusk had owned the catacombs. Bots were washed out pretty much during that week, but they were **** quick to get back in. http://scrap.5elements.net/l2screens/Shot00279.jpg
Second I said dwarven craft and everyone knows that all classes can craft them selves a soul bow. Great i can craft a a healing pot and hairpin. I would like to see all the other classes that have craft as you say make their own shots. It cant be done with out a dwarf you lose.
All classes can dwarven craft. It costs 1a and you have a bigger recipe book than any dwarf, called "giran".
Ohh and 15% being the additon of 3 more players? Since when do summons take group xp? Wow dude you are smokin some serious stuff, concidering thats wives tail. Go to l2pets or retest for yourself. Oh wait you retired and rerolled on a different server.
The mecha golem took 60% xp last time I played my WS. I did not say it took xp from the group. When you're in a 5 man group and lose 60% xp, that's the equivalent of more than doubling the members in a group.
The mecha golem took 60% xp last time I played my WS. I did not say it took xp from the group. When you're in a 5 man group and lose 60% xp, that's the equivalent of more than doubling the members in a group.
At first Mecha Golem was very cheap but took 30% of XP so it was useful for PVP and semi-useful in solo PVE. In C4 they changed it to 15% XP but increased it's crystal consumption by alot and it didn't pay off to use for exping - it was still good for PVP because of added pet ss. Now, in C5 we have PVP summon damage nerf and Erase and Mecha Golem has no uses at all.
No fighter pre 20 gets a stun skill, give them power strike and take away the sweep, spoil and craft until they chose their perspective paths. Then we are all equal right.
ok so let me get this strait. you get nerfed and continued to level your dwarf. You have the option of subclass but refuse to use it because of what reason?
Second I have a 62 ws and a 56 bh that i sometimes play when i am looking for something specific. My BH would be higher level by many times I have deleved her to continue spoiling items that I want. I dont see any reason to go to 75. I dont think that I need to get to 75 to realise they are gimped on the pvp side. I am how ever high enough to know that shots for ALL my toons are cost and not markup. I also know that my bw mat spoils still turn into armor at no added cost for me. Since i got my ag craft i dont have any toons in SG and half of the sets are crap and the weapons so over priced anyway, I dont even see a reason to get to 70.
The change to the craft shops and spoil sharing happened in what chronicle? Not everyone who plays this game played a dwarf in prelude.
Every dwarf craps on his ability to craft and to have more sell space, and even his dwarven craft shop. How many of those people are willing to give up all of the spols abilites and dwarven craft for new skills? Not many I bet since its still the main reason why they chose a dwarf.
Last yes there are 1 adena craft shops. They are not soulbows or bg + items 99% of the time at 1a, they are ab to cbp and other sililar mats.
You have the option of subclass but refuse to use it because of what reason?
I guess I wasn't clear. I do have a subclass. In fact, I'm this months Maestro Hero, but you know what? There were a whopping 2 Maestros that even competed last month. And this is on Bartz. That should tell you how many of us are around. :)
Last yes there are 1 adena craft shops. They are not soulbows or bg + items 99% of the time at 1a, they are ab to cbp and other sililar mats.
On Bartz, there is an infamous dwarf who has been sitting in Giran with his 1a craft shop up for weeks now, full of S Grade gear. How are we supposed to compete with that?
mmmm mass petition him for unfair game play or botting lol ok I dont have an answer for you on that since i dont play on bartz. Let throw the all servers are different clause in here since you have a problem with ignorant dwarves screwing people and Tarun has issues with bots. Both of these issues have nothing to do with the class, but the people controlling the class.
High level dwarves seem to have the same problem that bds have the get the good skills too early.
Maybe they should have made it so that you had to be mastero to craft sg, but they didnt. Like I said before, for alot of people there isnt much point in going past 70 or even 62 in some cases.
A grind to 62 was not that hard and didnt take very long.
I will commend you for making it all the way to 78.I think that is awesome!
But I am still confused. The class according to you sucks and is totally gimped for fighting skills pvp and pve then why take it all the way? Other than a few new skills your crafting is done.
Anyways gratz on the 78 again.
Ohh about the bd thing it seems that once your 58 all the higher level peeps seem to want you into the groups because you got the skills but dont take equal experience.
My final word. To all bd's out there dont take the offer on the groups its generally not worth it.
To all the dwarves out there make sure if you want the skills of a fighter go wtih a fighter, if you want the skills of dwarf and you go dwarf and you make it all the way like MacLeod pat your self on the back. Not once did I ever say it was easy.
Oh and pk 1a high level craft shops thats just lame >< (still right about the 99% tho =P )
i miss the old ways of crafting... makes you trust your local WS. Gives WS a Reason to lvl up. Builds trusts. all the private craft stores did was kill the WS.
My rant:
I knew what I was getting into when I picked dwarf class. Now with that said I think we need better fighting skills. Wait before you flame, not for pvp, but for pve. If our class is supposedly 100% support , why is it so hard for us to kill friggin mobs? I cant solo spoil effectively. I have a bh and ws. The share spoil skill I have no problem with, its optional. And so is craft shops. Optional. People who level their dwarf and set up 1a shops , sucks when i play my ws but is heaven when i play my spoiler. Someone mentioned earlier about dwarf beserker. As soon as I heard that a mental image of a small machine attaching to the dwarves shoulder and firing bullets ( I say bullets becasue i remember gunpowder being available for firework quest so with that introduction it is possible for guns now) . Ill continue with my rant later , I ntred into that pointless rambling now.
Although I feel the pain of the dwarves, the Devs have already said they aren't going to do that. I too, knew what I was getting into at first, but NCSoft keeps changing the game.
I'd like to hope things will change, but they won't for dwarves I'm afraid. I don't mean to burst your bubble, but they have already said so. Even though they take away everything you had, they give nothing back, and won't because there are so many dwarf alts. A class that is played alot, doesn't get noticed.
Typically, a class that is played alot gets nerfed. I'm not convinced that dwarves will ever be where they were, even economicaly. Every Chronicle makes it tougher on us tbh. I've made plenty of posts about what has been happening, but none of the Devs even read these posts, sorry to say. Even though the dwarves are supposed to be the economic class so to speak, every Chronicle takes more of that away from us.
I'm not trying to discourage you, but to be realistic don't expect much from NCSoft for the dwarves. Afterall, in L1, which comes after L2 in the timeline, there are no dwarves. I've already learned that no amount of talking here does anything to help. I'm only posting this to let you know how things are in NCSofts eyes.
I truely hope you stick with it as I have. I know how hard it can be at times. Just realize, that dwarves will probablly always be in the situation they are now, and most likely not characters in L3 either.
I played my BH up to 75. Then I subbed. havent played my BH since really, although I suppose I will go back on to it and grind out the last 50% or so to hit 76 and do 3rd class transfer at some point.
The Dwarf class is 'overplayed' only because so many automated players use them in almost every party. Counting the high level actively played dwarves on my server can be done on your hands with fingers left over.
I played my BH up to 75. Then I subbed. havent played my BH since really, although I suppose I will go back on to it and grind out the last 50% or so to hit 76 and do 3rd class transfer at some point.
The Dwarf class is 'overplayed' only because so many automated players use them in almost every party. Counting the high level actively played dwarves on my server can be done on your hands with fingers left over.
So ppl don't play dwarves because bots do ?
wtH
Stubby you had a brain last time we talked! Put it back !
Bots only play them for the money which is in spoils.
Ppl don't play them because they are incredibly hard to level out of very supportive clans and boring as hell since they have almost no skills.
dwarf is spoilmachine just like all those buffers are nothing but buffbots. and like how OL is nothing but a alliance cp healer :p how a tank does nothing then press hate all day. pve never was exiting, and giving dwarfs more skills to waste mp so they cant spoil anymore isnt really the answer.
in short, you cant have the most provitable skill ingame allong with fighter skills
I enjoy my BH none the less. I spoil mobs and run trains on those other classes , woot.
My WS, i pretend he's a dd when i got the golem out blasting ss.
Dont need mp consuming skills to enhance play [macleod]
dwarf is spoilmachine just like all those buffers are nothing but buffbots. and like how OL is nothing but a alliance cp healer :p how a tank does nothing then press hate all day. pve never was exiting, and giving dwarfs more skills to waste mp so they cant spoil anymore isnt really the answer.
in short, you cant have the most provitable skill ingame allong with fighter skills
You just forget one half of the dwarven community...
And it's not about more mp for spoil. It's about skills to solo, or summons or whatever that could place them in one of the fighting classes.
They aren't DDs, they aren't tanks, they aren't anything.
Make some dwarven 'hate' fireworks to keep aggro or some dwarven shots that make more damage for instance.
At the moment, dwarves are in none of the rock paper scissors thingie...
Call that a fiasco...
Aye, they're good only for stunning and that can be done with the chrono one or with the newbie club. Dwarves need something to make them even a lil bit better. And the BH should get a bit more than the WS since the WS already has the golem(even tho its expensive and all but it does give WS more DPS than a BH does have).
Maybe general weapon mastery lvl 15 on BH and 10 on WS or sumthing? Or a selfbuff that adds some dmg and the BH gets intensity 3 while S gets intensity 2.
I'll stand by my proposals:
Hate fireworks for the BH, making him a tank at last ! and saving his MP for spoils.
Dwarven shots for the WS making him a DD
I think everyone has forgotten what the rant was about...
That the dwarf pre 20 gets no usefull pve skills
and thats definately a big problem splat... no wait its not really lol
yeah it sucks man but at least we get to play with spoil abit
really its all down hill from there
dwarven fighters also get spoil sweep and create item =/
I think the problem is with dorfs is that they level to 7x and then complain that the class sucks. I mean what the hell if it sucks why do they play it so much? Old fat guys cant be that impressive.
I dont want to hear that they didnt know that the skill tree sucked.
If anyone says will i thought that they would change it in later chronicles is out of luck pure and simple.
one thing you forget : bots... at the beginning, dorfs can spoil for themselves, or clan. but now bots spoil and offers all basics mats (overpriced of course). So for who play a dorf, what is it still? nothing.
dwarven fighters also get spoil sweep and create item =/
I think the problem is with dorfs is that they level to 7x and then complain that the class sucks. I mean what the hell if it sucks why do they play it so much? Old fat guys cant be that impressive.
I dont want to hear that they didnt know that the skill tree sucked.
If anyone says will i thought that they would change it in later chronicles is out of luck pure and simple.
try and keep in mind that the average start time for a 70+ dwarf is C2, you know back when they actually meant something
Dwarven life indicates watching most anyone else get your money, your gear and PvP ownage.
I remember a time when a dwarf was asked to share her spoils in a group I was in during C1. She just replied "I'll lay off the soulshots then," and suddenly nobody wanted the spoils anymore, because her SSed damage was, well, like having a free extra member in the group that wanted neither exp nor money.
Dwarves aren't the only ones who can afford to spam SS in PvE and for fun.
Dwarves aren't the only ones who can run around in top gear when they ding.
Hell, dwarves aren't even the only ones who can carry massive amounts of CP potions anymore as of C5 (right - Hawkeyes needed a boost for sure).
At the moment, dwarves are in none of the rock paper scissors thingie...
Dwarves are in the middle of the RPS-circle. That place is called the "willing victim"-spot.
Unwilling Kitten
ROFLMAO
Personally I think dwarves should get uber high evasion. I mean what other class do you have to bend over to hit and that can run between your legs to avoid your swings?
um... yes. you got it easy with these herbs and new buff herbs they are going to add. go polearm and if you STILL dont like the xp from there, u reroll. thats all there's to it. play something else. go research another class. play a nuker and u will lvl faster than a dwarf (usually).
or, dare i say, GO ### A NEW CHAR! :o
you MUST have seen the skill tree before you made ur dwarf. u MUST have compared it with other characters before you made ur dwarf. if you havent, well, thats ur fault.
you MUST have seen the skill tree before you made ur dwarf
btw i just realized the title of the thread says
Re: The dwaven rant thread
Yup they had seen the skill tree and they had decided that crafting and spoiling were worth being a lil gimped.
But then new 'features' came unannounced :
50 slots recipe books (I know... fishing.. yeah... cheap. .. way to make you pay for something you had)
1a Craft shops
double 60% recipes
big boom nerf
the market being overloaded by BH bots and soulshots bots
spoil share
Even the most complete idiot muste realise there is a problem seeing that list.
Since C1 dwarves only have been taken some skills and abilities. It'd be good they get some too.
Make Hate BH's Fireworks and make him a tank.
Make Smith Shots to make him a DD.
Like Denzel said :
Give dwarves a muda@%$g place in that muda@%$g rock paper scissors circle. :p
And BTW the thread is perfectly titled since it's all about DwOF PowA!
i know ur being somewhat sarcastic about the 1a shop and all but you should have seen that waaaaaaaaaaay before 40+ and decide to reroll. every1 goes to giran before lv 30. theres no case for people that are in mid 40s to 60s complaining they cant lvl. u can still solo if ur at 60s.
How were WS supposed to see 1a craft shops before lvl 40, if they were already 50 when craft shops were implemented ?
How were BHs to see Spoil share before lvl 40, if they were already 50 when it was implemented ?
How were all Dwarves supposed to see everyone getting a quick go at basic materials, when the manor system was implemented long after they were lvl 40 already ?
I wouldn't suggest anyone to go BH today. Not even on Franz.
But back in OPEN BETA, when I started my main char (who is now level 60 after being hardly played in whole C4), the Dwarves class looked promising. And guess what, before spoil share, I got asked by my clan members to spoil certain key materials or basic materials with them. They were actively inviting me to join them on hunting and they were even fighting mobs, that I could reliable spoil on the first attempt.
Today, you do not need to spoil key materials. You do not need to spoil recipes. You do not need to spoil basic materials.
Everything is easily bought on the market, provided by "players" who never really leveled their dwarfs and bought with money, that was never earned.
So do not tell us, that it is our own fault, if we stick to our chars. The vision of the dwarves as they once were is long broken, the main reason for it being cheaters and the cheating customers of those cheaters.
So do not tell us, that it is our own fault, if we stick to our chars. The vision of the dwarves as they once were is long broken
I couldn't agree more Kitten. The dwarves, both WS and BH, are NOT the characters they were originally when this game began. Anyone that has not played a dwarf from the beginning until now, really shouldn't say anything. They have no clue as to what has been done to us.
I knew exactly what I was getting into when I started my WS. NCSoft changed the game, not I. I salute any dwarf that has continued to stick with it. Don't hold your breath for any significant changes.
I've played mine for over 2 years, and every Chronicle puts another nail in our coffins, and I'm not sure why. Every "dwarf" thread seems to go on for ages, but the Devs that make the design decisions don't even read these Forums.
I feel your frustration, because I've been there. All I can recommend is that you push forward and have fun with a subclass. The time of the dwarves has ended and it's a shame because we had so much to offer.
And shine you use a common and quite stupid bias when you say 'love it or leave it'.
Not everyone is a sheep. "**, my class is crap now. Well. Ok NC I reroll ty." I've seen people stand for their class and I think the world is a better place with them.
I 1.000.000.000 times prefer people who stick to their class than the reroll freaks switching class to stay uber at every chronicle balance change. By doing that they're increasing the server's inbalance for their lil personal ego.
btw i do have a ws. 70+. so direct the "u dont know what we are goin thru" elsewhere. i respond cuz i LIKE my dwarf. if i didnt give a crap about dwarves, i wouldnt even bother reading the thread.
it seems strange how some1 wouldnt go to giran b4 40 at least once. there are quests and 2nd job quests. if [censored] hit the fan after the patch and realized dwarf is gimped, thats ... too bad? daggers were gimped before. and how long did it take for nc _korea_ (i stress on korea. ncna doesnt have any power to balance the game.) to adjust for daggers?
u can [censored] alllll u want how ur char is gimped and ******ed. unless u can get ur point thru to the korean devs, there is no point. and even THEN there is no guarentee that its going to be heard NOR any guarentee of it being implemented. therefore, i am _SUGGESTING_ "'love it or leave it."
but hey, the OP is asking what ur DWAVEN rant is. and im just replying.
btw i do have a ws. 70+. so direct the "u dont know what we are goin thru" elsewhere. i respond cuz i LIKE my dwarf. if i didnt give a crap about dwarves, i wouldnt even bother reading the thread.
u can [censored] alllll u want how ur char is gimped and ******ed. unless u can get ur point thru to the korean devs, there is no point. and even THEN there is no guarentee that its going to be heard NOR any guarentee of it being implemented. therefore, i am _SUGGESTING_ "'love it or leave it."
but hey, the OP is asking what ur DWAVEN rant is.
I suggest you go to the NPC and Learn Skill Reading lvl 2.
I didn't say you didn't know. I said your 'love it or leave it' is biased and stupid.
Biased because of the sheep attitude you suggest people to adopt. Stupid because it doesn't solve anything.
Ppl should be allowed to play a class they like and not see it gimped more and more at each chronicle.
The purpose of this thread is precisely to get a spot on Mistryl's short list of things to pass on...
After all, NC is keeping telling us they do report our concerns and that we're indeed being heard.
And for the DWAVEN, Learn Skill Reading lvl 3. It has already been said above it's because it's about DWOF POWA.
Dwof, Dwaven. Everyone knows that. :p
(and the C5 change to daggers is a wayyyy to big adjustement btw...)
And as for having dwarves, I have 3 of em.
Two 65+ (ws/bh) and one 20. (arti)
Even this time ?
Cos I wouldn't like have to reread it all to try to guess who you might be replying to :-/
Bwahaha.
Seriously. Even then. You may know what it is to be a dwarf and still behave like a jerk and be completely wrong.
No antagonism right there.
On another note, If a dwarf was a decent DD or a decent Tank, would people still make HEs or PRs or DAs or whatever ?
Would they say no to the dwarf just for the look ? Or would they ignore the fact they can be decent AND make money?
Not that I like shooting myself in the foot. But the question remains.
And if dwarves just become second class DDs or tanks, aren't they that already?
Or is the gap too wide ? And how would one measure the gap ?
Well, most high level dwarves are closely integrated into their clans (how else would a dwarf get high level?) and thus often have full buffs - with DW and BD buffs, 2k really doesn't seem that far off the mark.
I'm sure Hungry or GreenSky of Devianne (if someone can get a hold of Hungry, I'm not sure if he still plays) can say something about dwarves and bow crits, but neither posts here to my knowledge.
My rant is the cost in sp of our 2 main skills. Spoil/sweep lvl 1 skill cost 1100 sp each to get. Now, ignoring all other skills in order to gain these 2 takes me to lvl 11-12 to get. I havent played all classes so I don't know for sure, but what other class has starting skills that cost this much?
My rant is the cost in sp of our 2 main skills. Spoil/sweep lvl 1 skill cost 1100 sp each to get. Now, ignoring all other skills in order to gain these 2 takes me to lvl 11-12 to get. I havent played all classes so I don't know for sure, but what other class has starting skills that cost this much?
/return
continue
I know what you mean....
I remember when with my dwarf he got spoil, then a few levels later he got the sweep skill. :)
2K crits ? what level what bow what patk ? I don't crit 2k easily with my archer...
74 bh clean soulbow prophet buff
Are you being silly on purpose?
You dare saying a dworf can be a decent DD with a bow when the damage he's dealing can be compared with the one of a SR who is 14 levels BELOW HIM ?
That just means that a 60 dorf can NEVER be near as efficient with a bow than a DDif he only equals his crits 14 levels later.
You just prove my point. Dwarves are nowhere on the rock-paper-scissors charts.
I play 2 dwarfs. Both now lvl 62. An Artisan and a BH. I also have my destroyer. Heres what ill say about this, Im sayin it now....ehemm... Here goes...ok
Firstly im a trainer, its what I do and dwarfs and orcs(specifically destroyers are made for the pole. What is Strikingly obvious when you play both orc and dwarf classes is the difference which is. Orcs may do more damage but dwarfs can take more damage. In fact they take damage better than any class consistantly. I may have a lot of hp on my orc but it starts goin down pretty fast, whereas dwarves in PVE mind you, have the right amount of defensiveness (sry forgot what this is realted too CON maybe??) and can take damage to where the hp goes down very consistantly and slowly. There built to level over longer periods i beleive cause theyre after materials not so much xp.
Once you lvl a scavenger past 40 you really start to make money in this game, in fact I started to wonder in fact how anyone in this game could afford C or BG anything without having a BH. When youve got both an arti and a BH its fantastic. makin your own gear and the ability to get mats and recipes at sucha a high level is grreat. Change anything about dwarfs??? Mmmmm. They are the crafting class thats there main skill, in fact thats why they fight, thats why they lvl to get the ability to craft and crystallize at higher lvls. I only made them for this purpose, yet as I began playin them i really began to love them. I love my little cute dwarf girl, shes so fun and i love the wway she looks when she runnin to go kill some visious mob.
I dont see dwarfs being a good PVP class. I believe they are designed more for PVE and in fact is says that on the character explanantion when you make them. If your into money and trade make a dwarf. They sure look funny as hell carrying a set of duels over their shoulders though. heheheh :D
Oh and GreenSky, best dwarf I ever met on Devianne. Thats someone whos really into thier dwarf. Really nice person to play with too. :)
Ramadear, I agree with 7th Bishop, your out of your mind.
Also its obvious you dont play a dwarf class. Its also not that simple to get all the stuff together to make an Eminence Bow or various other forms of gear. Its take a hell of lot of time when your not a bot. Makin Brig helmets for example takes not just the recipe, most people dont get this part of the dwarf craft thing, You DONT get to make stuff just cause you have the recipe, you also need the DESIGNS which can be very hard to collect. YOu need 7 or 8 of them to make a brig helmet for example. There not so easy to get as they drop from CG or BG mobs only. At BG you must, to make an AOBA not only have 2 recipes!! but also the blades, which i think is probably 11 blades you need. Making stuff means you have to go out and hunt it all down which involves figuring out who drops it and then playing the mobs for like 2 weeks straight 4 hours a day to get enough drops to make one of these because often they dont drop that frequently.
Also sevitors do not take xp from a party only from the one who owns the servitor, its been that way since C3 anyway.
2K crits ? what level what bow what patk ? I don't crit 2k easily with my archer...
74 bh clean soulbow prophet buff
Are you being silly on purpose?
You dare saying a dworf can be a decent DD with a bow when the damage he's dealing can be compared with the one of a SR who is 14 levels BELOW HIM ?
That just means that a 60 dorf can NEVER be near as efficient with a bow than a DDif he only equals his crits 14 levels later.
You just prove my point. Dwarves are nowhere on the rock-paper-scissors charts.
i dont understand why u are still arguing. u stated dwarves cannot be decent DD. what does it matter what weapon hes using. its doing DECENT DMG.
i dont understand why u are still arguing. u stated dwarves cannot be decent DD. what does it matter what weapon hes using. its doing DECENT DMG.
make some friends if u cant group.
Some ppl just have trouble understanding others. Don't apologize.
I'm grouped all the time. I never ever solo. Solo bored me to death.
I stated one of the dwarves should be a decent DD while the other should be a decent tank.
Read above. Hint : it's written white on dark blue.
Atm they are nowhere near making decent damage. Take sith's example as a reference. A 74 dwarf has the same bow damage output as a 60 SR... If you call that decent in any way I really want to see what you call decent clothing. It must be very minimalist.
Ok, after having what I might term as an interesing Sunday, I have come up with yet another rant or complaint or just generally b*tching about. They need to remove the 'Fighter' from the Dwarf description. Just call us lowbies 'Dwarf'. Why call us fighters if we have no fighting skills pre-20?