OMG! Reality in a Fantasy Game.... - Retail Forum Archives

AKup Sep 5, 2006, 9:07 AM #1

Ok...I have posted several threads regarding dwarves and GOOD improvments for them based on the lore of dwarves.

I read other threads and see people posting comments that are just laughable in every sense of the word.

Anyone who has read a dorf thread knows what I am saying.
Unless you have a dorf over the age of 52, then you do not know the class at all.

I have seen posts that state dorfs are money makers only.
Dorfs do not like combat.
Drofs have spoil and craft - the dont need anything else.
On and on it goes with no end in sight.

So I state this:

Archers - Gotta hate em, but they do exist and cause extreme damage. When in reality have you ever seen an archer pull back his bow and release the arrow while being beat down at the same time? NEVER! It is an impossibility and we all know it. Make an Archer the range attack they are. If an opponent gets within his range, he switches to an alt weapon or runs....nuff said.
Daggers - I can see backstab as being high damage. Point for daggers. But again, in reality, do not bring a dagger to a sword fight, you will lose.
Mage/Spellcaster classes - Great damage if spell lands and concentration is not lost during casting. No reality to draw from, so I draw from good Ol' D&D. Mages/Spellcasters need to concentrate to cast spells. If one is getting the sheet beat out of em, I do not think ones concentration would be effective enough to cast continually while being battered by a weapon up close and personal. Mages used daggers as a self defense weapon, and that was it. No swords or shields as these items interfered with casting.

So why not offer dorfs a better fighting skill? Cause we need it! We deserve it! Period!
I agree they live to make the best weapons on the planet, and to acquire money. But they have also been known for a great battle sense when needed. (besides - a battle axe does more damage then a dagger - imo)

Just for thought - nothing else.
Just wish everyone would stop complaining about thier nerfed class when they have no understanding about a dorf above the lvl of 52....
Dwarves need more to compete in the world of Aden now more then ever.

So when you are getting beat down by an archer while he/she stands right next to you and is able to use his/her bow the whole time, dont complain...you will prob lose anyway.

Spudnik Sep 5, 2006, 9:32 AM #2

youre nuts.

i collect knives.

i pull one out at a gunfight and people get scared. honestly. let me show you just ONE of my collection: http://home.att.net/~licata.knives/dcd.jpg

bought it a month ago. been in a barroom brawl where one guy pulled a gun. i come up beside him and just pointed to my side.

he ran away screaming.

Kez Sep 5, 2006, 9:34 AM #3

Dwarfs are economic based. Also the lore of dwarfs does not suit the ones of Lineage2. In Lineage 2, the dwarfs have not been taught any magic by the Elves so they cannot have magic based skills. They do not worship a Magic based god. They are earth and thus physical. They cannot gain any magic skills. And they are the Only race that can craft and spoil. They Do NOT deserve new skills because that is not why they are in the world of Aden. In PvP they are weak but theres others way of dealing that.

edit: feel free to flame me. I dont reallyl care about this issue too much. If you dont like dwarfs get a Subclass. Wont be reading this thread again. Good day :)

PleChan Sep 5, 2006, 9:38 AM #4

Sad problems thoght, dwarves are not what they supose to be either, moneymakers will say.

Dwarves make no more cash then ANYONE else in this game, and thats the full truth, Dwarves have got nerfed in the money aspect in the game since chronicle 1, and it have just ben worser, C5 is nothing new towards this, and NOTHING have ben done to solve this either.

I want PVP skills, and if not, GIVE US SOME **** MONEY MAKING ABILITIES.

Spoil and craft is long gone as money making abilities in this game, specialy at higher lv's.

Lord Chaos Sep 5, 2006, 9:42 AM #5

And this is why he doesn't care, heh

lvl 80 BladeDancer
::Sub:: Hawk Eye
::Sub:: Sorceror
::Sub:: Destroyer

Allwine Sep 5, 2006, 9:42 AM #6

Dwarfs were not meant to be true fighters in this game, that is why they have spoil and craft. Yes, they are somewhat boring to play, but that is the price you pay for being unique. If I was going to change anything, I would make it so dwarfs were even more unique by adding some type of customization to their (and only theirs) armor or weps. Or, make it so they can craft armor and weps of exceptional valu(higher p.atk or p.def) that only dwarfs can use. :eek:

Tarun Sep 5, 2006, 9:44 AM #7

Doh, guess I was 1 level too short of knowing about dwarves :(

In my defense, I levelled from 0 to 51 in C1/2 with no economical support at all. I crafted for free for my friends and clan. I gave armor to my closest friends. I was still using my silversmith hammer when I started my artisan quest. I sat on my bum and crafted soulshots for a month to afford my winged spear at level 38. I think I know more about the difficulty of levelling a dwarf than someone who transfers over a buzdygan or viper's fang at level 1 and 107's+brig at level 20.

Allwine Sep 5, 2006, 9:46 AM #8

I mean no offense Chan, but are you serious about not making money as a crafter? I cant be the only one that is making money on SS and SpS. My partner spoils the enchants, I make wep and we OE them to make tons more.

AKup Sep 5, 2006, 9:49 AM #9

Really? Maybe it was the effect of poison lvl 99 [as seen in our sig]. Or maybe it was a play gun. Maybe you look like his ex-wife/gf.

Simply put - You would be shot b4 you could get in range...

But this thread was not to be an attack on any one person or the size of you beer belly that you pointed to in your brawl....

Odds are in a sword vs. knife - Sword will win more often.
Sword/knife/axe/xxxxweap vs. Bow/Arrow - While up close and personal, b/a will lose 100% of the time.
I also know that odd things, luck, skill, and other factors play into an outcome all the time.

I was simply stating that in this game, if you want to be fare and equal then nerf classes where they need to be nerfed, based on reality.
If you choose not to - then give dwarves self buffs, and fighting skill equal to the rest of Aden....

Peace!

PleChan Sep 5, 2006, 10:00 AM #10

Every dwarf ingame can't make cash on just crafting SS or SPS or even BSPS, thats the sad truth, sure you can make cash, you make less cash per hour doing it then what I do out hunting by the way, you can do the math here http://lineage2.mugimugi.org/ss.php and tip for MP regen an 55 BH have about 7,5 MP / tick. As best you can earn about 100k hour doing it that way.

But as I said again, every dwarf ingame can't make cash on it, if everyone crafted shots 24/7 the market wuld be so flooded and you most likly never got your shot sold.

And crafting gear is not close to as proffitable as it was befor, in fact B grade + you need the first recipe as well and can cost you ton, befor C2 when there where no evil things as craft shops, peoples needed to learn and trust dwarves, and most WS had a cople of friends to earn cash from, now there just a bunch of craft shops always ingame, and you can ofcorse run one to but thers no good cash, you still earn more hunting.

As for BH's share spoil was one nerf, biger parties is an nastier nerf, and the spoil tables at 60+ is just completly crasy, you can't even spoil mats up here, all you get is key items who is so low priced alredy becsoe teh market is flooded by them becose thers not enought mats to craft up them.

That basicly describe thats. And what I counted up is just a VERY few nerfs to the dwarven classes, thers a hell a lot of more.

AKup Sep 5, 2006, 10:01 AM #11

Doh, guess I was 1 level too short of knowing about dwarves :(

In my defense, I levelled from 0 to 51 in C1/2 with no economical support at all. I crafted for free for my friends and clan. I gave armor to my closest friends. I was still using my silversmith hammer when I started my artisan quest. I sat on my bum and crafted soulshots for a month to afford my winged spear at level 38. I think I know more about the difficulty of levelling a dwarf than someone who transfers over a buzdygan or viper's fang at level 1 and 107's+brig at level 20.

Sorz T....
I have seen you post very educated and thought out posts regarding issues at hand and when one asks....

Simply put - and all I am trying to say - Stop downplaying a dwarf into money making only!
If you want to be fair and equal, then look at other classes and skills, and then state you objections, as I have.

No Archer in RL has ever won a fight while being beat down standing right next to another.
No dagger woud ever win in ranged attack. Sneak attack, backstab, lucky shot - I can see.
No mage could concentrate on a spell if getting hit upclose or at ranged if serious enough hits. He would be more concerned about his death at that time. That is why they are ranged and usually in the back of a party.

Guess that was not so simply put....:P

HAGD!!

AKup Sep 5, 2006, 10:02 AM #12

BTW - Nice Dagger.... (all hits aside!)

Allwine Sep 5, 2006, 10:13 AM #13

Every dwarf ingame can't make cash on just crafting SS or SPS or even BSPS, thats the sad truth, sure you can make cash, you make less cash per hour doing it then what I do out hunting by the way, you can do the math here http://lineage2.mugimugi.org/ss.php and tip for MP regen an 55 BH have about 7,5 MP / tick. As best you can earn about 100k hour doing it that way.

But as I said again, every dwarf ingame can't make cash on it, if everyone crafted shots 24/7 the market wuld be so flooded and you most likly never got your shot sold.

And crafting gear is not close to as proffitable as it was befor, in fact B grade + you need the first recipe as well and can cost you ton, befor C2 when there where no evil things as craft shops, peoples needed to learn and trust dwarves, and most WS had a cople of friends to earn cash from, now there just a bunch of craft shops always ingame, and you can ofcorse run one to but thers no good cash, you still earn more hunting.

As for BH's share spoil was one nerf, biger parties is an nastier nerf, and the spoil tables at 60+ is just completly crasy, you can't even spoil mats up here, all you get is key items who is so low priced alredy becsoe teh market is flooded by them becose thers not enought mats to craft up them.

That basicly describe thats. And what I counted up is just a VERY few nerfs to the dwarven classes, thers a hell a lot of more.

About crafting shots: you have to do the things that others dont. Gamers are mindless drones, that is why most compain about things being too hard. One just needs to put thought into what they are doing. This game is more like chess, not pong. People need to understand that in this game, you either lvl, or make money. You cant do both effectively. Craft "C" weps and over enchant them. Dont craft armor. Stay with what the market wants at the time, then change when the market changes. Explore and experiment. So many just become habitual about teir toon that is why they start to not like it. Complacency kills. Set up sell shops when you are not lvling. Get an SE in your group. Find a good clan.

Spudnik Sep 5, 2006, 10:14 AM #14

BTW - Nice Dagger.... (all hits aside!)

ty.

in all seriousnes tho, read what the devs said in the dev interview (go to the announcments forum, its posted there). you will find that devs simply will not listen to complaints that dwarves are underpowered. to them, thats the way they want it, and its not changing.

AKup Sep 5, 2006, 10:24 AM #15

BTW - Nice Dagger.... (all hits aside!)

ty.

in all seriousnes tho, read what the devs said in the dev interview (go to the announcments forum, its posted there). you will find that devs simply will not listen to complaints that dwarves are underpowered. to them, thats the way they want it, and its not changing.

I did - and was not impressed with the answer.
No one has offered any insight as to what this means either.
Any benefit I see will benefit the bots/farmers as well since no one has offered any insight - so it is all a guessing game.

Dont get me wrong here though...I LUV my dorf and am in A grade plus at this time...WEEEE for me....and will continue to play her as my main.
But if a dwarf is all about money and spoils then an archer should be about ranged, not upclose etc.... (/insert dead horse.../beat)

PleChan Sep 5, 2006, 10:37 AM #16

You do realise that everything you took up is not binded the the dwarven classes right? That you can actually do ALL thoes things with anyother class in the game, But I think you lost the point of this entire thread with your post right now. That dwarven class DO NOT have any money making abilities.

I'm in Full A grade by the way ( except SA on my weapons ), and I can say this much, I did not make my cash from crafting nore spoiling, but from Manor, and buying/selling items. So I for sure know how to get cash, but as I said, I say it agian, it's not becose I play a BH the way I did it is open for everyone who want to give it time.

I'm waiting for the money adventages the dwarven classes should have, yet don't have it curently. Neither do they have any PVP capacity.

Woodsman Sep 5, 2006, 1:29 PM #17

Unfortunately realism has nothing to do with this game. For one thing, we dont have magic. The other thing is the combat system that doesnt even come close to what you might expect in a true combat.

Historically daggers did not rule the battlefield. Those roles were for weapons like swords, maces, pikes and bows. But they made good backup and close quarter weapons. A dagger user would lose from a well trained swordwielder because of one thing: Reach. He first had to avoid being killed by the swordwielder before he could try to hurt him. Then he had to place his strike so precise that it would circumvent the armour his opponent is wearing. Good luck.

However, in Li2 daggers are more dangerous then a sword, a bowuser can kill everything approaching him and the mage kills all regardless of weapon skill. In a lot of fantasy games Dwarves are sturdy warriors equal to none. Not in Li2, here dwarves fight badly but are the only ones capable of turning raw materials into great weapons.

Sure I would love to see some improvements for the combat prowess of the Dwarf. But that is not what we will get, because this is Li2 and Dwarves are not meant to fight well.

kert Sep 5, 2006, 1:49 PM #18

anyone else think this guy is Psycho

Elrohir Sep 5, 2006, 1:51 PM #19

anyone else think this guy is Psycho

Yes but long before this post...

Spudnik Sep 5, 2006, 2:04 PM #20

anyone else think this guy is Psycho

Yes but long before this post...

:p

better than collecting stamps :p

or dust.

kert Sep 5, 2006, 2:21 PM #21

anyone else think this guy is Psycho

Yes but long before this post...

yea true but to this degree I did not know.

Sure knives are cooler than stamps but to carry them around with you in bars sticking them to peoples sides is over the bridge. Unless of course you live in a bad area or the sticks.

TheIronGolem Sep 5, 2006, 3:32 PM #22

can;t make money as a dwarf plz

my BH for instance. ( this is with dual boxed SE)

In weekend day of playing I can on avg
spoil 2-3 EW-b/a
Spoil 100+ SOP
Spoil 10-20 B grade parts (aoba baldes and DMG heads)
now I can;t do the manor for reasons I will not go into for fear of loosing my spots. During the week I will spoil 1-2 bop recs and will trade them for DMG recs. Craft the DMG and sell the aoba blades to xxOOOxx in giran for 300-400k each to fund my crafting sell the crafted item for a profit usually of 20 mil.

If i wasn;t a dwarf:
I would have to pay market price for:
dmg stones
bop recs
SOP

now having said that I can alszo take my bh outside of godard and do the hgiher lvl seeds for VOP and Mith alloy and make 20 mil a week as well, If The stupid clan that control godard remembers to put money into the vault. The point is I can make as much money as a bh my lvl but its much easier and funner as a bh to do it (IMHO)

Spudnik Sep 5, 2006, 3:56 PM #23

its legal where i live.

its not a concealed weapon if its not concealed in the first place :p

guns included.

Nanashi_Naomhan Sep 5, 2006, 9:28 PM #24

i can make 6 mil a day makeing SS
that of course requires a 70+ se and about 7 hours of my time
in that time i get zero xp
it then requires another 8+ hours to sell the ss (do that for a week and it will take 14 hours to sell the SS)
it cost up to 2 million adena a day to lvl a ws
in 7 hours i can make about 4 million adena cdling on my necro
in that time i get about 5x the xp my ws would get
so tell me who is the money makeing class?