And if so, did u have to use 2 groups for Priest Kuroburos who is lvl 23?
What the heck were you developers thinking?
How does making low raid bosses darn near impossible "help" the newer player?
I was in a really good group with 6 nukers 28-33, a tank, a healer, and an alt dd and we couldn't even TOUCH the lvl 26 solo boss by gludin. Had to run after a few minutes.
So players who are under 30 won't be chosen for raids ever again.......jesus! Thanks!
Low raidbosses were the only hope in the game us newer players had of reaching higher levels before retirement age.
With all the good from this chronicle, and the nice job with auto installer server--why did you have to mess with the low bosses? They weren't being 'farmed' by unmentionables!!!!
From what I just saw it will take a group of 6 lvl 35 nukers, a tank, and two healers to take a lvl 26 raid boss down. And I'm not completely sure that group makeup will do it. I'm guessing the lvl 23 bosses with minions will require 5-6 nukers 32, 2 healers over 30 and a tank over 30. So what's the deal? If you are a lvl 25 dk wiz you can't raid anymore? What raid leader is ever gonna pick you?
Suffice it to say "raidboss rewards have been increased too" will only widen the gap between truly low, new players on a server and the 'mid-range' players 35-50.
So, has any1 honestly even killed one yet? They were all up on devianne as of this afternoon.
Our little RB clan has taken down several on a regular basis. There are a couple that we have never been able to take down... One being that Orc outside Orc Barracks and his minions. His HP never goes down!! Can't tell you how many times I've had to run from him for my life, and often ended up eating dirt sandwich.
So don't be disheartened. I have had 2 toons that I have leveled up through lowbie raid boss groups... one afternoon can get me 3-4 levels on a good day... and often just 3 or 4 of us have been able to take one of them down.
But there are still gonna be those ones that you have to aspire to destroy... and sometimes maybe you do need 2 groups perfectly designed for the task.
Okay here is another thing to think about with raid bosses. Essentially all it took in C4 to complete a low level raid boss (say under 40) is 9 people. 1 tank, 1 buffer, 1 healer and 6 nukers. Nothing else was needed. If you were not one of those classes (e.g. archer, dd, orc, whatever you wanna put here) you had no use in a raid party. Shouts were almost always Raid Group looking for: Tank, Nuker or Healer. By making the raids much more difficult (and they seriously are, I'm not gonna lie) they have added more HP, Def, and if they have minions they respawn in much faster fashion, they have MAYBE allowed for others to get involved in the groups. It is no longer about a solid party of 9, it is about getting enough people together to have enough firepower/dd to chip away at HP.
Part of this I think was to help combat the "unmentionables" who dominated almost all of the lucrative raid bosses. I've seen a group of my players get right to the raid boss after a little bit of time running there, organizing, buffing, etc., only to watch a magical group of nine pop in, body to mind until the Spellhowlers could use Curse Death Link, and kill a raid boss in under a minute. TOI raid bosses were down in less than 3 minutes after starting. What kind of raid is it when it only takes 3 minutes to complete. Raids SHOULD be events where groups get together and take down a legacy boss or something more than just some passing mob that runs by.
Sure, this change will affect many honest players who could easily get a group of nine together and raid a low boss using the same strategies above, but seriously, shouldn't a raid on these bosses (some with a lot of lore about their roles in Aden and Elmore) take more than 180 seconds to vanquish from the game for a period of 12-24 hours?
PS. I LOVED to raid before C5. It was lucrative, easy, and fast exp. So, yes I am a little sad that I cannot continue it as much, but I can see how it SHOULD help the game out a bit.
Oh, and I seriously doubt the rewards have been increased. I remember the PTS with 4x drops before the first wipe. We had a solid 60+ people take down a raid boss outside of Blazing Swamp and got a great big load of crap for drops. There was NOTHING worth mentioning except the tremendous amount of death we endured.
Oh, but did you notice it takes a while longer for raid bosses HP to go back up?
I could possibly care less about A grade players with 500 million adena swords who raid bosses I can't even walk to.
You want to change uber bosses--go ahead, I'll never see one anyway.
I've played two servers and NEVER seen a group of unmentionables take a boss under 40. Not once.
My point is that the bosses 20-34 or so were the ONLY way to quickly get exp for leveling for the truly new players.
Sure they were easy--but so what? How did that hurt the uber players on the server?
All that's been done now is to ensure that no low players have a quick climb to 40.
The game's been out for 2.5 years or more--but it's still sold to new folks.
You can't BEGIN to play parts of this game till well into your 50's. Before C5 you could raid from about 22-38 or so pretty quickly. Not anymore.
No one from 20-29 is ever even going to GET picked up for a Raidboss group unless they're low alts for a clan.
This was a stupid move imo. Granting some bosses were really easy--what did that hurt? It's not like people were getting billions of adena from them---like, say, castle owners get.
So a level 25 nuker could get a few raids and quickly go to low-30's. Why was that a bad thing?
That lvl 25 nuker now is going to be hunting a lot (and a LOT longer) to get any higher.
Basically this one move means that anyone who started in the past 6 months has a SIGNIFICANTLY longer path to C-grade than all the folks already there.
Yeah--THAT'S fair. Good thing we got those instant pots for power, health, and mana--THAT will sure compensate for no raids.
For christsakes--NOW the unmentionables WILL farm the lower bosses!
My point is that the bosses 20-34 or so were the ONLY way to quickly get exp for leveling for the truly new players.
Sure they were easy--but so what? How did that hurt the uber players on the server?
But then, why not make the entire game easy to level? Would it be such a great idea to make all raidbosses up until 75 doable with one group? What's the point of regular pve and lvl1-30 quests if you can just do raidbosses solid for those levels?
Basically this one move means that anyone who started in the past 6 months has a SIGNIFICANTLY longer path to C-grade than all the folks already there.
Just like those of us that started in prelude. No Raid Bosses. No high-levels to powerlevel us. Nobody selling the spellbooks that we needed. Nobody selling used gear.
Making the raid bosses harder is not a bad thing imo. Just takes a bit more organization.
Sure the low bosses used to be easy. Many classes couldn't get any Raid Boss action even if they wanted to. I even tried to get a few archers in our low lvl raiding action in C4, and was told by everyone, no way, we need nukers, a few healers/rechargers and a tank. Now maybe Daggers/Sword users/Archers/etc will be able to get apart of the action.
Also, why train people on how to raid, then at a certian level, say no more, you fight with the big boys now. The only way to learn, is to do so early on. And that way, the xp loss you take really isn't much of a concern anyways. (It may seem like it at the time, but trust me, things aren't pretty once you get a bit higher up.
all well and good to be high and mighty when you've been goofing off in game for 2 years during which time the most inept player on the planet could have a toon in A-grade.
15 of us just finally took down a lvl 35 raid boss. the drops were a brig tunic (400k) an ewd (maybe 600k) 8 strengthened long bow shafts......and we got an average of about 17,000 exp.
Not 170,000 ---17,000. We had to reform the group 3 times to win and almost everyone died twice.
The low raidboss changes suck. Most on these forums won't give two hoots but it was still a crappy thing to do.
So much for 'helping low/new players'---but at least you can get a mediocre sword and those nifty 2 minute insta-pots!
Idiotioc and uncalled for.
Let's just say I honestly hope the next time the uber patrol runs to valakas that you find exactly the same degree of change that all us lowbies found---THAT will be funny.
15 of us just finally took down a lvl 35 raid boss. the drops were a brig tunic (400k) an ewd (maybe 600k) 8 strengthened long bow shafts......and we got an average of about 17,000 exp.
Not 170,000 ---17,000. We had to reform the group 3 times to win and almost everyone died twice.
So your saying less than 2 parties can't kill a lowbie raid boss. Come on quit complaining so now you can't go out with 5 players and kill raidbosses and lvl super fast. GOOD shouldn't have been able to in the first place. All raid boss strength should be preportionate to the lvl of toons that can attack them. I am glad they changed it.
I remember when they were noot raid bosses and just mini bosses and nukers solo'd them all the time for tons of quick xp. It's a good change in my opinion.
15 of us just finally took down a lvl 35 raid boss. the drops were a brig tunic (400k) an ewd (maybe 600k) 8 strengthened long bow shafts......and we got an average of about 17,000 exp.
Not 170,000 ---17,000. We had to reform the group 3 times to win and almost everyone died twice.
So your saying less than 2 parties can't kill a lowbie raid boss. Come on quit complaining so now you can't go out with 5 players and kill raidbosses and lvl super fast. GOOD shouldn't have been able to in the first place. All raid boss strength should be preportionate to the lvl of toons that can attack them. I am glad they changed it.
I remember when they were noot raid bosses and just mini bosses and nukers solo'd them all the time for tons of quick xp. It's a good change in my opinion.
do you even know how hard it is to find 9 nubs ready and equipped to take down a boss? let alone the right classes, with good equipment, etc ?
now we need over 27 ? no thats expecting a helluva lot.
i aggree with ya drakkos. this sux the gloryhole of a glowbug.
do you even know how hard it is to find 9 nubs ready and equipped to take down a boss? let alone the right classes, with good equipment, etc ?
Yes I do and still think the changes are good. But I think the drops should be better or people will quit doing lowbie raid bosses. Just not worth the effort as they are now.
Since the launch of C5, Ive seen every possible RB up and running, even the ones I never heard of...says something about how people or unmentionables think about RB's now.
So your saying less than 2 parties can't kill a lowbie raid boss. Come on quit complaining so now you can't go out with 5 players and kill raidbosses and lvl super fast. GOOD shouldn't have been able to in the first place. All raid boss strength should be preportionate to the lvl of toons that can attack them. I am glad they changed it.
The rewards should match the pain in the *** it takes to take them down.
Well... most guilds did raidmobs in c4 with one Tank grp and one Mage grp.
But NC increase HP AND shortet respawn time ALOT.... Golkonda have no 2milion HP.... Lilith 1,7milion and this with minions who respawn about 1min~... i rember that Golkonda got around 600K hp in c4?
This changes are extrem bad for subclass quest and nobless quest.
Pdef or mdef is NOT the problem... the only problem is the extrem higher HP and the respawn time from minions... i think if you need 2 grps in C4... you need now 4 - 6 grp to kill the same mob.
In ohter words... C5 is tzhe death for small guilds who liked to do raidmobs.
good luck with dd's taking minions! for the lowbie bosses the minions have been "improved"!!!!!
Before my junior nuking dk wiz could kill a minion with 3 or 4 spells. Now they have to be hit multiple, multiple times by spells. They respawn insanely compared to before too. I wouldn't guess DD's will be much help.
If anything I think this change makes it LESS likely DD's will ever see a low raid!
I know that from now on I'll just form two groups--2-3 tanks, 3 healers, 3-4 that can regen mana and another group of 8-9 nukers.
No sense in taking a dwarf, orc, or non-tank sword user along at all.
Hitting for 360 hp a spell was a joke on the 'new' bosses AND their minions. Can't imagine a dd hitting for "19" or critting for "28" is even worth letting them go along. Hopefully all of the dd's that want to raid are clanned.
If you haven't raided yet in C5 you are in for a big, big surprise (lmao).
End of the day we'll all adjust.
WoW o really? Good luck finding a forming raid group enough to have 2 full party's + outside buffers and such...
Go, go promote outside buffers R&D!
... I wasn't promoting outside buffers and such in any way, where did you get it? :confused:
I was just trying to think of style that would be able to beat those bosses. Do you have any better and usefull idea that could be used to beat low raid bosses, besides whining about OOP buffers?
After going 1 for 5 last night on low bosses Crawlerin I've got a couple ideas.
Outside buffs are key. One group of pure nukers about 6-7 levels higher than boss. Lots of ability to mana regen. Absolutely 2 tanks with hate (not agresssion--sorry palus knights).
If the boss is say, lvl 25, nukers/tank/healers should be 32 or so. Buffs from B-grade or better would be clutch and having that person around to redo them would be an added bonus. These raids take a LOT longer than they used to.
If there are minions the group might want a 3rd tank and another mana regen character. The minion respawn is fast now.
Unfortunately there aren't more than 1 or 2 spots in these groups for alt dd's.
The good news is the bosses will be "up" more often now but arranging these new low groups is kind of a pain in the butt. It is a bit harder to gather the better part of 18 people once they learn they have a good chance of dying (they are all at a point desperately trying to level) and that 'rewards' are low.
In the time it takes to form 18 folks I can do better than 17,000 exp in any hunting area on the map.
Well, and I heard that mele do better (or at least not nerfed) damage on RB's. My nuker friend said that archers outdamaged nukers at the raid they did.
Melees tradtionally are superior for "stamina" jobs - and yes, this sounds like a change promoted to get those stamina type characters on the job.
What I can really see is SpS ans Sorcs never seeing the inside of a raid party again if they don't have their own dedicated recharger - if you need to last more than 3 minutes, there's no point in someone who can burn their mana fast and then do precisely nothing.
My point exactly. There will be more need for all classes ow. If you can't kill the RB in the time it takes all the nukers to suck up their MP, its game over. Sure a DD may not hit anywhere near as hard as a nuker, but its a constant drain, not the boom... wait ... booom... wait for MP .. boom.
Also from the things I have been reading so far, it looks like RB's are a nukers nerf. Some people that were out doing RB's said the melees were actually hitting for more damage then before. If the bosses will last 10-30 mins now will be a very wise idea to have all classes possible in for the fun, as each will be able to contribute now.
My point exactly. There will be more need for all classes ow. If you can't kill the RB in the time it takes all the nukers to suck up their MP, its game over. Sure a DD may not hit anywhere near as hard as a nuker, but its a constant drain, not the boom... wait ... booom... wait for MP .. boom.
Also from the things I have been reading so far, it looks like RB's are a nukers nerf. Some people that were out doing RB's said the melees were actually hitting for more damage then before. If the bosses will last 10-30 mins now will be a very wise idea to have all classes possible in for the fun, as each will be able to contribute now.
And the pool of people taking XP from the encounter will expand, and the same number of items will be distributed among more players.
Raid orbs can get you tons of stuff from C to A grade. And there still are drops (dont know if those were boosted) and reputation points and the fun aspect of it, like for example oging to 70+ rift with mid 60th people.
And the pool of people taking XP from the encounter will expand, and the same number of items will be distributed among more players.
I guess we're down to the question "why raid?"
What about all those classes who never got to join a sub 50's raid party in C4 because they weren't the "right class", do you think they fret because now you need more people to raid? Do you think they are annoyed because now they will get less loot and xp as you need more people?
The fact that you could have a raid party so small (yes, I consider less than 3 full parties to be small for a raid) that people don't want other classes in as it will dilute the loot and xp is enough reason to say they were too easy. imo.