Thinking of Sleep as defensive skill needed to protect mages i was wondering if this awfull change to the casting speed of this skill is something temporary or we have to live with this?
Well my thoughts is this:
Sleep when targeted on player character stays the way it is.
Sleep when targeted on a mob goes back to what it was in c4.
That would make me happy, i could still get my self out of those situations in VoS when i pull one to many Blade of Splendors, or flashes and when the blades just happen to teleport themselves on top of me when i am trying to kill another two mobs. Sleep casting speed set the way it is will see me dead on the floor a lot more. And I thought I died a lot before lol
Well my thoughts is this:
Sleep when targeted on player character stays the way it is.
Sleep when targeted on a mob goes back to what it was in c4.
That would make me happy, i could still get my self out of those situations in VoS when i pull one to many Blade of Splendors, or flashes and when the blades just happen to teleport themselves on top of me when i am trying to kill another two mobs. Sleep casting speed set the way it is will see me dead on the floor a lot more. And I thought I died a lot before lol
Exactly what we were thinking yesterday in VoS too, do the nerf for PvP, but don't nerf nukers crowd control for PvE...
VoS is not made for fighters, is the best duo spot Nuker-Buffer/Healer there is in the 60's...
please tell me an area made for fighters lol
vos is waaaaay too good xp to exclude anyone
and once again i state sps is the only class that should complain since all other mages are near invincible when spamming ghp qhp and drains
True... I spent 55>72 in VoS, never used sleep, claw ftw. Ok I died a few times, but mostly to magic crits where nothing could have saved my ***. Though after spending several levels on my SPS in the bottom of GoE sleeping and killing the group mobs down there, I can see why an SPS/Sorc would be ****** at this nerf, it was great fun killing the group mobs and the exp was insane. This hits the SPS/Sorc more because they can't claw so its spam GHP or die now they cant sleep adds.
SLEEP SHOULD NOT BE A GET OUT OF TROUBLE FREE CARD.
GET OVER IT, PARTY A TANK.
TY AND GOODBYE
couldnt say it better :)
So this topic could have the title Fighters V Mages .
I personal believe mages need Heavy armor mastery in C5 cause there will be no mages in C6
hmmm... 4 chronicles in favor of mages and 1 that shorted things out.
stop QQ mages. at last NC made the greatest change to equal things.
and it was ALWAYS mages vs fighters, BUT the mages had the unfair advantage of fast casting sleep.
now, u just have to use your skills as ALL the other classes.
and as last comment, it is rummored that no other chronicle will come out for L2, and L3 is on the way.
just rumors or truth?
we ll see...
:cool:
VoS is not made for fighters, is the best duo spot Nuker-Buffer/Healer there is in the 60's...
please tell me an area made for fighters lol
vos is waaaaay too good xp to exclude anyone
and once again i state sps is the only class that should complain since all other mages are near invincible when spamming ghp qhp and drains
VoS is all about ranged mobs, ultimate evasion buffed mobs, acumen buffed mobs...does that sound like a fighter environment for melee to you?
Not going to answer to people who quote their own post by using secondary account, thats just pathetic.
Unbelievable too that people do not understand the importance of diversity of classes and such...but ok I rest my case, I know enough for the future.
I tried to explain that sleep nerfing is ok for PvP, but not for PvE, that was not needed at all. And the person who said about non-existing mages in C6 might look like overreacting but he/she has a point there.
A couple things I didn't like about the old sleep in pve was how a sleeper could charge through LoA by just sleeping everything. It sorta makes dance of shadow useless.
The other thing is - like I mentioned in another thread - how an sps is better at soloing group mobs than my warlord is at duoing them. An sps can sleepcloud and nuke them all individually faster than I can aoe them. Nothing makes your specialized class feel more useless when a nuker outclasses you in your only forté.
A couple things I didn't like about the old sleep in pve was how a sleeper could charge through LoA by just sleeping everything. It sorta makes dance of shadow useless.
The other thing is - like I mentioned in another thread - how an sps is better at soloing group mobs than my warlord is at duoing them. An sps can sleepcloud and nuke them all individually faster than I can aoe them. Nothing makes your specialized class feel more useless when a nuker outclasses you in your only forté.
I completely understand your point, and I do not ignore that fact at all. Personally I think it such an exact situation, something has to be added to Warlords, not be taken away from the nukers...but it seems Im fairly lonely trying to express and support that idea.
The other thing is - like I mentioned in another thread - how an sps is better at soloing group mobs than my warlord is at duoing them. An sps can sleepcloud and nuke them all individually faster than I can aoe them.
But then they stand for mana rest, while you are killing another train, right?
Nothing makes your specialized class feel more useless when a nuker outclasses you in your only forté.
The other thing is - like I mentioned in another thread - how an sps is better at soloing group mobs than my warlord is at duoing them. An sps can sleepcloud and nuke them all individually faster than I can aoe them. Nothing makes your specialized class feel more useless when a nuker outclasses you in your only forté.
A nuker may be able to take down a group faster than you, but you can go on for WAAAAY longer than the nuker. Sleeping cloud plus, say, five nukes (if you can take down the individual mobs with one nuke each and no mobs have to be slept individually because SC failed on them) costs 400-450mp, depending on level. Out of a 3000mp pool. I'd guess that if you duo and have VR plus a heal every now and then, you can go longer than 6-7 groups before having to rest for 10 minutes.
I completely understand your point, and I do not ignore that fact at all. Personally I think it such an exact situation, something has to be added to Warlords, not be taken away from the nukers...but it seems Im fairly lonely trying to express and support that idea.
No, fixing a balance problem by adding to those who lack in power to bring them to the same level is far far better than nerfing those who are too powerful. Simply because receiving a nerf makes people angry. Also, people have to understand that each class has a function. For example, a Warlord kills lots of mobs, not super fast, but continuous as long as he has a healer/buffer to support him. SpS and Sorc on the other hand are ALSO aoe classes - they get aoe skills, after all - but their specialty is killing FAST, at the cost of increased downtime and higher vulnerability (if they get "mobbed" and get their casting interrupted, they are gone). So it's completely acceptable that they kill a group of mobs faster than the Warlord - because it's designed to be that way, and because they cannot keep that killing up for a long time, unlike the pole users.
Varaya has posted the core concept in my opinion, that we all tend to forget.
We play our ________fill in the blank and think, "gee, if this toon could just........do 'whatever' better.......it would be great!"
The classes/races really are supposed to be either specialists or generalists (but generalists with tendencies).
If you make a nuker a better melee dd or a melee dd stronger in magic--they are no longer what they were.
All that being said, it gets frustrating when abilities are reduced! I almost got killed in orc barracks with my 31 dk wiz! Before C5 I could solo there with real confidence. I realized last night as I was running for my life that I was going to have to adjust (both warlords reached me before sleep was cast and interrupted it--then elder spawned and assisted!).
Appreciated the reasoned post Varaya.
I think the difference is that overpulling as a nuker usually ends as having 2-3 mobs beating on you and you dying, while for a melee having 2-3 mobs on you is really not a biggie?
I think the difference is that overpulling as a nuker usually ends as having 2-3 mobs beating on you and you dying, while for a melee having 2-3 mobs on you is really not a biggie?
A melee (hell even a dwarf) can easily take on another train of mobs in group before they go down...and they dont need a crowd controlling skill for that.
I think the difference is that overpulling as a nuker usually ends as having 2-3 mobs beating on you and you dying, while for a melee having 2-3 mobs on you is really not a biggie?
If it's not a biggie, then it isn't an overpull... :)
I think the difference is that overpulling as a nuker usually ends as having 2-3 mobs beating on you and you dying, while for a melee having 2-3 mobs on you is really not a biggie?
If it's not a biggie, then it isn't an overpull... :)
Overpull with C4 sleep = WOOT! big fun, and now sit down all
Overpull with C5 sleep = ok all to town, and forget this hunt ok?
We are talking about PvE sleep that did not had to be nerfed...PvP sleep ok I can settle for that as I have told before.
A melee (hell even a dwarf) can easily take on another train of mobs in group before they go down...and they dont need a crowd controlling skill for that.
Mystics do...and they dont have it anymore.
I can't handle one add when I'm soloing greens or light blues. If my stun fails, it takes me down 2-3k HP. That's HP I don't have unless I rest for 3 mins after every single mob.
A melee (hell even a dwarf) can easily take on another train of mobs in group before they go down...and they dont need a crowd controlling skill for that.
Mystics do...and they dont have it anymore.
I can't handle one add when I'm soloing greens or light blues. If my stun fails, it takes me down 2-3k HP. That's HP I don't have unless I rest for 3 mins after every single mob.
Single mob or single train? Big difference..
And yeah, we nukers never have to sit down to rest.. Specially us spellsingers..
[/sarcasm off]
We are talking about PvE sleep that did not had to be nerfed...PvP sleep ok I can settle for that as I have told before.
I can agree with that. I don't know why they didn't make it so that, oh I don't know, maybe when you get slept by a player and it wears off, you get like 15 seconds of player sleep immunity.
A melee (hell even a dwarf) can easily take on another train of mobs in group before they go down...and they dont need a crowd controlling skill for that.
Mystics do...and they dont have it anymore.
I can't handle one add when I'm soloing greens or light blues. If my stun fails, it takes me down 2-3k HP. That's HP I don't have unless I rest for 3 mins after every single mob.
My Bountyhunter takes 2 large rooms (early rooms that is) when solo w/o buffs with her Composite set +0 and Orc Poleaxe +3...
I don't see why you can't take an extra add as a Warlord with all the aoe skills you have.
We are talking about PvE sleep that did not had to be nerfed...PvP sleep ok I can settle for that as I have told before.
I can agree with that. I don't know why they didn't make it so that, oh I don't know, maybe when you get slept by a player and it wears off, you get like 15 seconds of player sleep immunity.
Make our sleep not work on other players, I don't care.. :) I just want to sleep the accidental aggro..
Oh, and yesterday a mob in the VOS slept me.. And it didn't take it 5 secs to cast.. NC, please nerf the mobs sleep too! :p
My Bountyhunter takes 2 large rooms (early rooms that is) when solo w/o buffs with her Composite set +0 and Orc Poleaxe +3...
I don't see why you can't take an extra add as a Warlord with all the aoe skills you have.
I could do that in my 40-50's as well, but atm I'm 66 and have to search high and low for mobs that don't stun or have other special "features". The only aoe skills I have that dwarves don't is thunderstorm, howl (the time it takes to cast this doesn't make it useful if I'm the one tanking), and provoke (not exactly my skill of choice if I'm about to die).
stop making it all about the warlord. you people should learn this is still a multi player game. the fact that you CAN solo shouldnt mean they should make it easy. hell if you askk me, id say make it hard as hell, so people need to make groups.
still, a melee COULD handle a add more, or 2 without dying, but would have to sit after that most likely unless hes rich and spamming pots. now sure nukers have to sit down, but nukers also can kill mobs they SHOULD hunt (solo mobs are 1/2 1 mobs) in like 2 hits. with a sps you can drop nukes on a overpull and drop in before he gets near him.
so really i dont see why a melee shoujld watch out or sit for hp, but a nuker can just go on messing up and just sleeping the countless adds without any problem.
and yes the nuker might die from a big overpull, but.. its a overpull, being bad.. being your own fault. still... the castspeed might be a bit to high :P just tje speed it was at was waaaay to fast, and i wouldnt be suprised if they are jsut trying out speeds and will change it over time
Sorry, I'm just more likely to make an example using warlords as that's my main :p It's hard to sit back and listen to how hard the nukers now have it at soloing when I was never able to myself.
But again - I love my WL. My dwarf used polearms solid since short spear. I knew what I was getting myself into - that I would practically not be able to solo - and I don't regret it. I'm not complaining over how gimp my WL is, but listening to some of the most powerful classes in the game complain when one of their supplemental skills gets nerfed (and in turn - as far as I see it - makes skills such as hate, dance of shadow, and thunderstorm more useful) is somewhat annoying.
Tarun
in the threads we've posted in together it has been made clear, even to you, that the nerf on sleep is more than "one of their supplemental skills" getting nerfed.
For the Sorc and SpS it was the only reason we got parties and the only thing that allowed us to solo.
Without CC, we are a limited time, mana hogging, regenning more than dding sponge on an xp party.
Without sleep to control mobs when soloing, we are a defensless, slow, low-hp, interuptable bullseye looking for an xp loss.
This is exactly what I predicted, though the point isn't to say I Told You So.
I've spoken about internal character balancers, the disadvantages to balance the advantages within each class.
Our sleep was weakened, Aura flare was nerfed, then cancel was nerfed, now sleep is junked. Of course to help counterbalance that we got... well.... no wait....
We still are slow, we still are wholly mana dependent, we still are interuptable, we still are stuck in 100% cotton armor, we still have low pdef and hp, we are still susceptible to stuns and silence, and now we are unattractive to parties and unable to solo except on the fringes of hunting grounds.
Because Johny-Gottawin got slept in the arena.
Let's not pretend this is a minor inconvenience. The entire game for the Sorc and SpS has changed.
Seems like when people are talking about Mystics it's mainly nukers...but what about the healers for a group. It's always been easier to keep the tank alive to throw 2-3 quick sleeps on mobs than 2-3 quick heals on the tank. Is it easier to keep the tank alive with two mobs or five mobs hitting.
I do understand in PvP it gave nukers a decent advantage...having a Bishop and SE tho, it's just a darn good way to even the playing field a bit. Let's face it, we're not known for our superior M and Patks. *lol* Oooo...windstrike lvl 5 does a lot of damage!
And I'm not talking just over pulls...but what about respawn aggro? It's always been a much easier way (to conserve mana), as a Bishop, to sleep respawn just as it aggros than to have it start hitting someone in the party (tank or other) and then have to spam heals.
DVC is a great example with the pytan groups. Fighting a couple other mobs and a pytan group spawns on top of you. Sure, let the tank draw the pytan and the rest get slept or rooted.
But if you tanks would rather not have mob control, hopefully I'll be able to live with that.
(and I notice some levels here are high enuf that pytan groups aren't much of a big deal...but it once was :P )
Sleep should really be changed back to the casting speed it was in c4. It isnt always over-pulling of mobs that gets us mages in trouble, in many of the new areas that c4 brought, such as VOS, the mobs double spawn and they usually dont hit lightly. I play a SpellHowler myself and i know when they double spawn and you get the double spawn on you along with the mob next to it, your life bar can read 0 very quickly.
Not only does it effect us soloing it effects parties as well, have you ever partied in toi before and have your tank pull way too many mobs, well what will we do now huh. let me guess let the healer trance them right? Wrong, do you really want your healers sleeping tons of mobs when they should be healing you? Also is it smart to actually have your healers sleep mobs, you do know that they will draw agro that way when the mobs wake up. So this is not even an argument about the healers trance, no need to bring it up in flames.
Why the hell nerf sleep in PvE it makes no **** sense at all. Of course your going to have the mele classes crying about it, thats what they have done since day one (Not all mele players whine, so if you dont whine, ignore this this sentence, but the majority do). Why nerf us in PvE, it would be very simple as suggested in previous posts to make sleep either slow casting in PvP, or just make it not land as often. Id be content with it nerfed in PvP because i dont use it anyways against other players. So i suggest fix it.
Do you really think that people will stay in this game the way it stands, why would they? Die, back to town, die, back to town, really great way to hinder lvling completely at higher levels. Of course after this post you will have an ignorant ******, saying somthing along the lines of reroll noob mage. Why would i reroll after putting almost 2 years into my mage, not happening, very simple.
But sleep didn't need a PvP nerf - it really didn't matter in anything but 1v1 fights, and there would have been fivehundred different, better ways to nerf it - including the immunity/resistance on resleep that was floating around here so many times.
This made PvE more dangerous for all involved (including myself by the way, no more "hohoho my pony died in lag because it has 400 PDef and tried tanking 12 mobs, but I can still sleep them, run and resummon" - which was cheesy as all hell), not a bad thing on a whole.
Try duoing with a recharger, it seems to me the most natural form of party for a nuker.
If you're really into the sleeping thing, you can probably still SC for an ES or some very peculiar classes - it'll just take some experimenting.
I know I would still take SC to fight bigger-HP groups than I can solo, and/or of course an extra AoE nuke to finish off a group I can't do by myself.
Now, all these classes aren't readily available - but that's partially because they were never necessary or shined due to PvE being too easy. There's no point in being an amazingly versatile solo class if a nuker with sleep can do the same, and better.
No matter what This game is [censored] UP IN MY OPINION ! I wasted $9.99 To Renew a game for C5 thinking that it was gonna be good and better.
I am a level 52 SORCCER, and WE deserve MORE !!!!
#1 WE GET SLEEP NERFED
#2 SILENCE OVER POWERS Humans/ELFS, Excluding necros
#3 Cancel NERFED !
#4 We Have no over Hits !
#5 CHEAP SKILL ADDED CURSE FEAR NO GOOD FOR ANYTHING REALLY, maybe to help with mobs since you cant sleep.
UNFAIR THINGS.
FIGHTERS get goodies, we get nothing, no cloaks, no capes, and we get no mp potions except what falls what the hell, 8 mins down time at level 75 + 10 mins + down time omg get a life, I play RF Online, and so far ecnomics, and PVP is a lot more stable there than here. I only like Lineage 2 Because of the Good Graphics, Sound, and that you can actully PVP each other not just race to race, but when it comes down to giving RF Online the thing I dont like about not being able to PVP race/race members I can deal with that, because I am getting sick and tired of always having 1 class over powered, and others being given skills that are unfair, or nothing at all really. Please get a life, and wake up NC SOFT, I Used to love this game, but you are killing it... Raise your hand if you agree us nukers should get a mp potions, and some good new skills, not saying over powered, but our sleep should also be put back.
No matter what This game is [censored] UP IN MY OPINION ! I wasted $9.99 To Renew a game for C5 thinking that it was gonna be good and better.
I am a level 52 SORCCER, and WE deserve MORE !!!!
#1 WE GET SLEEP NERFED
#2 SILENCE OVER POWERS Humans/ELFS, Excluding necros
#3 Cancel NERFED !
#4 We Have no over Hits !
#5 CHEAP SKILL ADDED CURSE FEAR NO GOOD FOR ANYTHING REALLY, maybe to help with mobs since you cant sleep.
UNFAIR THINGS.
FIGHTERS get goodies, we get nothing, no cloaks, no capes, and we get no mp potions except what falls what the hell, 8 mins down time at level 75 + 10 mins + down time omg get a life, I play RF Online, and so far ecnomics, and PVP is a lot more stable there than here. I only like Lineage 2 Because of the Good Graphics, Sound, and that you can actully PVP each other not just race to race, but when it comes down to giving RF Online the thing I dont like about not being able to PVP race/race members I can deal with that, because I am getting sick and tired of always having 1 class over powered, and others being given skills that are unfair, or nothing at all really. Please get a life, and wake up NC SOFT, I Used to love this game, but you are killing it... Raise your hand if you agree us nukers should get a mp potions, and some good new skills, not saying over powered, but our sleep should also be put back.
and back at the beggining of this post. it was about time NC give an end to the domination of mages over fighters (especially melee). now that things are more equal, ALL u previously-overpowered mages, can go raise a fighter so u can feel what the game is about :).
it is sooooo bad to be more equal on fighters, right? :P
ok, and something else besides the sleep of mages
mobs using sleep... for example lilim priest. it casts sleep the same way as before, much much faster the all nukers ( :D ). is this going to be fixed or sleep on mobs wont be nerfed? any ideas?
and m8y, thgis is a L2 forum, noone cares on RF online.
No matter what This game is [censored] UP IN MY OPINION ! I wasted $9.99 To Renew a game for C5 thinking that it was gonna be good and better.
I am a level 52 SORCCER, and WE deserve MORE !!!!
#1 WE GET SLEEP NERFED
#2 SILENCE OVER POWERS Humans/ELFS, Excluding necros
#3 Cancel NERFED !
#4 We Have no over Hits !
#5 CHEAP SKILL ADDED CURSE FEAR NO GOOD FOR ANYTHING REALLY, maybe to help with mobs since you cant sleep.
UNFAIR THINGS.
FIGHTERS get goodies, we get nothing, no cloaks, no capes, and we get no mp potions except what falls what the hell, 8 mins down time at level 75 + 10 mins + down time omg get a life, I play RF Online, and so far ecnomics, and PVP is a lot more stable there than here. I only like Lineage 2 Because of the Good Graphics, Sound, and that you can actully PVP each other not just race to race, but when it comes down to giving RF Online the thing I dont like about not being able to PVP race/race members I can deal with that, because I am getting sick and tired of always having 1 class over powered, and others being given skills that are unfair, or nothing at all really. Please get a life, and wake up NC SOFT, I Used to love this game, but you are killing it... Raise your hand if you agree us nukers should get a mp potions, and some good new skills, not saying over powered, but our sleep should also be put back.
jsut LOL
Can i have your stuff?
Cry more, seriously.
To all you mages [censored] about this.
YOU WERE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO HAVE SLEEP IN THE FIRST PLACE.
IF YOU OVER-PULL, YOU SHOULD DIE
I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove seeing all these mages just crying and moaning, makes my day everytime.
Now maybe you know the feeling of being a melee for the past 4 crons, no wait your still ranged and do a [censored] more damage then we ever could, and yet you still choose to [censored] and maon cause you cant sleep?
Just deal, find mobs that you can 2-shot, and learn to live with it.
No matter what This game is [censored] UP IN MY OPINION ! I wasted $9.99 To Renew a game for C5 thinking that it was gonna be good and better.
I am a level 52 SORCCER, and WE deserve MORE !!!!
#1 WE GET SLEEP NERFED
#2 SILENCE OVER POWERS Humans/ELFS, Excluding necros
#3 Cancel NERFED !
#4 We Have no over Hits !
#5 CHEAP SKILL ADDED CURSE FEAR NO GOOD FOR ANYTHING REALLY, maybe to help with mobs since you cant sleep.
UNFAIR THINGS.
FIGHTERS get goodies, we get nothing, no cloaks, no capes, and we get no mp potions except what falls what the hell, 8 mins down time at level 75 + 10 mins + down time omg get a life, I play RF Online, and so far ecnomics, and PVP is a lot more stable there than here. I only like Lineage 2 Because of the Good Graphics, Sound, and that you can actully PVP each other not just race to race, but when it comes down to giving RF Online the thing I dont like about not being able to PVP race/race members I can deal with that, because I am getting sick and tired of always having 1 class over powered, and others being given skills that are unfair, or nothing at all really. Please get a life, and wake up NC SOFT, I Used to love this game, but you are killing it... Raise your hand if you agree us nukers should get a mp potions, and some good new skills, not saying over powered, but our sleep should also be put back.
jsut LOL
Can i have your stuff?
Cry more, seriously.
To all you mages [censored] about this.
YOU WERE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO HAVE SLEEP IN THE FIRST PLACE.
IF YOU OVER-PULL, YOU SHOULD DIE
I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove seeing all these mages just crying and moaning, makes my day everytime.
Now maybe you know the feeling of being a melee for the past 4 crons, no wait your still ranged and do a [censored] more damage then we ever could, and yet you still choose to [censored] and maon cause you cant sleep?
Just deal, find mobs that you can 2-shot, and learn to live with it.
ty and goodnight.
Ok so I can't have sleep because we supposedly got it in C1 (still haven't seen any official update quotes for that but w/e)
Ok so we'll just remove all the skills you got in and after C1 aswell ok ^^?
I'm sleep skill user. This change just obliges us to reconsider ancient tactics. It means the way of fighting in C4 is not right one any more in C5. It sucks at this moment, but we must think for survival.
No matter what This game is [censored] UP IN MY OPINION ! I wasted $9.99 To Renew a game for C5 thinking that it was gonna be good and better.
I am a level 52 SORCCER, and WE deserve MORE !!!!
#1 WE GET SLEEP NERFED
#2 SILENCE OVER POWERS Humans/ELFS, Excluding necros
#3 Cancel NERFED !
#4 We Have no over Hits !
#5 CHEAP SKILL ADDED CURSE FEAR NO GOOD FOR ANYTHING REALLY, maybe to help with mobs since you cant sleep.
UNFAIR THINGS.
FIGHTERS get goodies, we get nothing, no cloaks, no capes, and we get no mp potions except what falls what the hell, 8 mins down time at level 75 + 10 mins + down time omg get a life, I play RF Online, and so far ecnomics, and PVP is a lot more stable there than here. I only like Lineage 2 Because of the Good Graphics, Sound, and that you can actully PVP each other not just race to race, but when it comes down to giving RF Online the thing I dont like about not being able to PVP race/race members I can deal with that, because I am getting sick and tired of always having 1 class over powered, and others being given skills that are unfair, or nothing at all really. Please get a life, and wake up NC SOFT, I Used to love this game, but you are killing it... Raise your hand if you agree us nukers should get a mp potions, and some good new skills, not saying over powered, but our sleep should also be put back.
jsut LOL
Can i have your stuff?
Cry more, seriously.
To all you mages [censored] about this.
YOU WERE NOT EVEN SUPPOSED TO HAVE SLEEP IN THE FIRST PLACE.
IF YOU OVER-PULL, YOU SHOULD DIE
I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove seeing all these mages just crying and moaning, makes my day everytime.
Now maybe you know the feeling of being a melee for the past 4 crons, no wait your still ranged and do a [censored] more damage then we ever could, and yet you still choose to [censored] and maon cause you cant sleep?
Just deal, find mobs that you can 2-shot, and learn to live with it.
ty and goodnight.
Ok so I can't have sleep because we supposedly got it in C1 (still haven't seen any official update quotes for that but w/e)
Ok so we'll just remove all the skills you got in and after C1 aswell ok ^^?
seriously just lol.
Think for a second about what you said then get back to me.
Sure, you can have two reasons to say, "You should not have it in the first place". As your "if you overpull you should die" statement is contradictory, I'd assumed you meant that we supposedly didnt get it by C1 but ohwell, here goes:
1 - "if you overpull you should die"
If you overpull as a fighter, you should die too, that is why it is "an overpull". And with even with sleep you still have "an overpull" rate as a mage, it is just 1 mob higher then without it. So if with sleep "I overpull" meaning I can't handle it, I die.
2 - "You didn't get it until C1", see earlier post.
Ofcourse you forgot to mention the fact that even while 2-shotting mobs you can still have an "Overpull" as a mage by lag, bad spawns, large aggro/social ranges etc. With a fighter this is much less likely. And that you as a support fighter can always fall back on a party while I as a sorc without sleep am not very attractive to a party.
Not to mention that my sleep from both sorc and bishop has saved countless party members lives and healers mana, but shoot yourself in the foot if you wish.
It is quite amusing to see so many people whooping and doing a victory dance at the sleep nerf as a revenge tactic against nukers.
But as usual, it is the short-sighted self-centered nature of anrena warriors that fuels this sentiment. In real pvp (when it counts) sleep is a waste of mana and casting time. Land rate of sleep against an equal level player is was poor to begin with, and sleep can is canceled with damage or with a scroll unlike root or paralize.
The crying has been done for 4 chronicles because nukers output high damage. Ignored by the whiners has been that unlike melees, when we run out of mana, we are done. When silences, we are done. When we get hit, our robes don't protect us much and we quickly go down. We are slow, we are squishy. We have/had internal balancers that go completely ignored because it weakens the case that we are overpowered.
With this nerf, we received one boost... mana pots in solo areas. Of course everyone gets them, not just nukers.
As a Sorc, C5 brought zero, nada, zilch, no new skills. My nukes are less effective (be it increased mob attributes decreased spell damage, I don't know) so I am running out of mana faster than the emergency potions are dropping.
Without the CC abilities, we are no longer welcome in parties. Without CC abilities, we are no longer able to solo (effectively at least).
That is really the complate. We're still going to **** the melees in the arena, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some otherwise peaceful nukers making it a point to flambeau melees with greater zeal since that is apparently all NCS wants our toons to do.
We will adjust. It will be a learning curve but nukers will continue to level despite the huge disadvantages we are facing, and now the overpowered argument is utterly shot.
The joy of the melees today will certainly be cited when the crying starts up again.
The other thing that I find interesting is that it really is about "One vs One"
"My character got owned by a nuker... my character, once again, got owned by a nuker".
This is not a "one on one game".
Get yourselves in a party and figure out your role.
There was a video posted on Hindemth by a dagger user. He was very good at what he did and extremely clever about how he did it.
He didn't charge in only to be taken down by the few nukes it would have taken. He held back. Waited until the battle was furious and essentially sidled up to his nuker targets and took them down. He took down more nukers than it would have taken nukers to take him down.
People need to expand their minds to the group pvp mindset.
"owning" someone in the arena means nothing. The arena is very fun. But the game is about sieges and group pvp.
And this change in sleep, in the end, will just end up affecting everyone because it is essentially useless as an emergency rememdy.
You accidentlly pull too many mobs or two groups spawn right on top of you? You better have an EE with you or bsoe's. Or hope that that the tank was paying attention to the healer's mana and was pulling the group back toward a safe place. In this case the healer should hopefully be able to take care of things long enough to keep the tank safe.
Still, there is that new skill, "fear" or whatever it is. I don't have the spellbook so I havn't had a chance to test it out.
This is one of the things I don't like about how this game is managed. A person rolls a character, takes the time to level him up, and then has a very essential skill removed from their bag of tricks.
If you want to fix the balance, give to those who don't have, instead of taking away from those who do. Make melee more interesting to play, but leave the nukers with what the had already.
Say what you want about SoE, I only remember them going down this road once, and that was with manaburn. Even then, they admitted that they had goofed it so bad that they simply couldn't fix it without taking away. With NC, it's "here to day, gone tomorrow."
Sleep Level 9 increased the number of mobs I can pull for an overpull by a whooping 4 - that's how many I can keep slept with sleep failing repeatedly while still popping heals (and of course my MP pool is a limiting factor, but eh). Sleep was not just a "one mob extra" thing, it was a "pull as much crap as you can find without running and kill it off one by one" thing.
No, it's not about 1v1 PvP. It's all about the PvE.
PS: If you want to see an excellent example of how "give to those who don't have" have a close look at boxed, buff-[censored] summoners. And all they gave us was a boost, eh?
PPS: "Holding back" only works when people don't identify you as a viable target and just go red on you to wash later, never even mind about war. I always stood till the last in Trinity despite being the thinnest of the summoner targets, because it was known I was also the lowest, and consequently fueled the least dangerous servitor. The second I cured someone's silence, though, I was down faster than I could break the EULA in regards to cussing though - I'd been standing around battle-healing (and thus, yes, flagged) people before without being bothered. Becoming a target capable of making a difference changed that. In short: A melee that can do harm will be dropped and targeted.