If NCsoft wants to do 1 change from korea to NA servers, please dont change the Non class-limited olympiad must now have 9 players signed up to start, isntead of 5.
Right now, at least on kain, im sure other servers too, the olympiad doesnt have many people who sign up all the time. People sign up to get their 5 matches in and get some points, then dont play again. There also isnt 500 nobles on each server to have the olympiad going the entire time. Usually people will play for a hour or 2, then no more matches the rest of the night.
Right now, people sign up classes that are useless to fight with, just to get the 5 people. Even when doing this, sometimes they still dont get fights.
In a single night of olympiad, you might see 10 people fighting at different times. This is a lot of different people for 1 night in the olympiad. Making it so 9 have to be signed up for fights to take place, there wont be any hero's for the month. There wont be 9 people signed up everyday to compete so there wont be any fights at all.
If this gets changed on NA, which im sure it will, there wont be olympiads, and there wont be hero's.
I have looked a couple weeks on bartz and sieghardt at the olymiad, and most of the time, there were no fights going on. This change would pretty much mean that there wont be olympiad fights.
NA servers do not have the numbers for this change. NCsoft, you know this, dont ruin the few olypiad fights that there are right now.
The first link is the the korean site that has the update that is going to live. This update is the pts stuff from august 31 and there was no changes in translation to say this didnt make it to the live servers.
If NCsoft wants to do 1 change from korea to NA servers, please dont change the Non class-limited olympiad must now have 9 players signed up to start, isntead of 5.
Right now, at least on kain, im sure other servers too, the olympiad doesnt have many people who sign up all the time. People sign up to get their 5 matches in and get some points, then dont play again. There also isnt 500 nobles on each server to have the olympiad going the entire time. Usually people will play for a hour or 2, then no more matches the rest of the night.
Right now, people sign up classes that are useless to fight with, just to get the 5 people. Even when doing this, sometimes they still dont get fights.
In a single night of olympiad, you might see 10 people fighting at different times. This is a lot of different people for 1 night in the olympiad. Making it so 9 have to be signed up for fights to take place, there wont be any hero's for the month. There wont be 9 people signed up everyday to compete so there wont be any fights at all.
If this gets changed on NA, which im sure it will, there wont be olympiads, and there wont be hero's.
I have looked a couple weeks on bartz and sieghardt at the olymiad, and most of the time, there were no fights going on. This change would pretty much mean that there wont be olympiad fights.
NA servers do not have the numbers for this change. NCsoft, you know this, dont ruin the few olypiad fights that there are right now.
I'm more worried that they are changing the duration to 6hours.
They should be reducing it drastically and making it at a better time for Europeans as well as Americans.
More than half the Noblesse on my server are European and most of them can't stay up from 3-7am every single night just 'incase' someone goes in to fight.
The extreme duration of the Olympiad each day allows people to 'farm' points off to one another in order to keep all their characters heroes and prevent anyone else from having a chance.
We need the Olympiad to be 4-6hours long on the weekend opposite to sieges, so fortnightly on the weekend. This would create high drama, massive fighting and still be plenty of time for every Noblesse on all our servers to get hundreds of fights each.
The fact the Olympiad guy wont even tell you anyone else has signed up until over 100 have signed up shows how many people this competition is designed for, we certainly don't have even 100 on my server.
If NCsoft wants to do 1 change from korea to NA servers, please dont change the Non class-limited olympiad must now have 9 players signed up to start, isntead of 5.
Right now, at least on kain, im sure other servers too, the olympiad doesnt have many people who sign up all the time. People sign up to get their 5 matches in and get some points, then dont play again. There also isnt 500 nobles on each server to have the olympiad going the entire time. Usually people will play for a hour or 2, then no more matches the rest of the night.
Right now, people sign up classes that are useless to fight with, just to get the 5 people. Even when doing this, sometimes they still dont get fights.
In a single night of olympiad, you might see 10 people fighting at different times. This is a lot of different people for 1 night in the olympiad. Making it so 9 have to be signed up for fights to take place, there wont be any hero's for the month. There wont be 9 people signed up everyday to compete so there wont be any fights at all.
If this gets changed on NA, which im sure it will, there wont be olympiads, and there wont be hero's.
I have looked a couple weeks on bartz and sieghardt at the olymiad, and most of the time, there were no fights going on. This change would pretty much mean that there wont be olympiad fights.
NA servers do not have the numbers for this change. NCsoft, you know this, dont ruin the few olypiad fights that there are right now.
I'm more worried that they are changing the duration to 6hours.
They should be reducing it drastically and making it at a better time for Europeans as well as Americans.
More than half the Noblesse on my server are European and most of them can't stay up from 3-7am every single night just 'incase' someone goes in to fight.
The extreme duration of the Olympiad each day allows people to 'farm' points off to one another in order to keep all their characters heroes and prevent anyone else from having a chance.
We need the Olympiad to be 4-6hours long on the weekend opposite to sieges, so fortnightly on the weekend. This would create high drama, massive fighting and still be plenty of time for every Noblesse on all our servers to get hundreds of fights each.
The fact the Olympiad guy wont even tell you anyone else has signed up until over 100 have signed up shows how many people this competition is designed for, we certainly don't have even 100 on my server.
Thats why they have European servers now, not just 1 but 2. Because of the creation of the Euro servers the chances you see a time that accomedate both players (which by the way is practically impossible) will be very unlikely.
As for these updates i have been waiting for these, Its only a matter of time till it comes here. THESE are the changes i have been waiting for.
Though i still don't agree with necros having the best of every class T.T
IMO, the death debuff and the changing disallowing the stacking of the strength herbs are by far the WORST change yet, what's the point of them even putting those instand buff boosting herbs in, we get them for what, call it a month and then they remove it. This is garbage
my favorite part is where your chance to drop items is next to zero and pvp is made meaningless.
oh wow, how l2 has changed (for the worse of course)..
comming from someone who was to die at lvl 76 in a siege or if dced in the middle of a room and reconnected and discovered he was dead his DC or Imperial helmet was gone and watch as farmers run out of the same room would probobly burst into tears and slit his wrists.
Well, if this patch went live, as is, on the Korean servers......then I would say that it seems they are chasing the casual market in Korea as well.....I find it interesting that there actually is a casual market in Korea.
I say this post gets bumped until someone from NC soft acknowledges that they have read it and have brought up the issue with those who make the decisions of what is patched.
hey guys, we got some new coding for the latest update in korea.
Cool, whats in it?
Dunno, but im sure they made it work for the NA market too.
Ahh, true, so lets just release it?
Ya, everyone will love it.
Call me bitter but what's up with this continued healer/buffer class nerving?
Since the introduction of potions if feel we are getting nerved about every chronicle that comes out. Remember the discussions when the Potion of Alacrity was first introduced?
Clan Hall buffs / Mammon potions / Brez scrolls / BSOE-scrolls / Herbs / Mana and hp potions / Clan skills (aka 50% XP recovery, 300% HP-regen and I guess 300% mana regen is possible too) and now emergency potions...
What next?
Well, it appears that the emergency pots have a 5 minute re-use time/penalty, so they may not have much effect on PVP. When I tested on the PTS, Mana burn hit for 600 MP drain and cool down was fast. The emergency mana pot only gives 325 I think. Any support class with Mana Burn can kill that in a hurry.
I really don't understand why they keep hitting the support classes though. C5 gives them some new and useful skills only to nerf some of their other skills at the same time. Go figure.
I still haven't figured out why they wanted to screw the entire C grade and lower B grade toons with nerfed heals. Bishop/EE doesn't get the Major heal skills till upper 50's. Again, go figure. Maybe they think that 40-55 level toons don't need good heals?
You know what I like to see is a change in the buffs can be cast:
Much like Berzerker Spirit and Holy Weapon I love to see all buffs only be castable on others if they are grouped with the caster. However I would even go 1 step further to make the out of party buffer/healer impossible.
In any group where the buffs are cast the second that caster leaves the group the buffs dissappears.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree. I would love buffs to be more dependant on partied buffers, but in reality the entire combat system in L2 is broken by buffs. All buff effects need to be reduced by about 90% and then this change would be viable. You would, of course, have to change mobs to adapt as well. But as of right now, buffs = live no buff = die. Buffs are overpowered.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree. I would love buffs to be more dependant on partied buffers, but in reality the entire combat system in L2 is broken by buffs. All buff effects need to be reduced by about 90% and then this change would be viable. You would, of course, have to change mobs to adapt as well. But as of right now, buffs = live no buff = die. Buffs are overpowered.
Humm maybe..
If that "WoW patch" comes out you will still have your emerency-potions. And lets not forget that there are Haste2 potions/Acumen2 potions/Greater heal potions/BSOE out there too.
Allso with that setup the buffer in a good group might even be able to contribute in damagedealing/debuffing mobs as it may be harder to duobox in the more hard to XP places.
Buffs need to cost less mp and do less in general. Buffers have to sit to get their mp back to rebuff large parties. Buffs should cost 50% of what they do now if you want them to dd. But frankly, it's not the haste 2 I'm worried about losing in a full party in imperial tomb. I'm scared of might/shield/focus/deathwhisper/guidance/magicbarrier/chantofvictory dropping while the room is spawning rapidly. Or worse, the BD and SWS disconnect at the same time...
The mere fact you need all those buffs says something about the game design. It is 100% buff dependant. A buffed toon is worth 3 unbuffed players.
Simple look at how bad buffs are for the game - compare the position of archers and dwarves on the balance ladder buffed, prophet-buffed, and fully buffed.
But yeah, buffs are too % stacking oriented. Now they increase the number of buffs you can wear...yeah that doesnt encourage farmer healer bot buying. No thanks, I'd rather the max buffs be 10 and you half the hp of all monsters without touching the exp.
Nukers get 5 buffs...any more magic floating around would interfere with your casting :p
Mage damage doesn't have enough properties to be influenced - I still think buffs should be necessary to actually land attack magic on a target, and that fail rates should be higher with a different buff for concentration available from a third party (so that they'd need more buff slots to get to max at current), or buff slots reduced.
But oh well... NCSoft thinks the buff stacking is a good idea - they're making it worse, not better, after all.
tbh buffs is one of the aspects I like the least about this game. The chore of virtually *having* to go through with it every 20 mins just gets tedious and annoying. Pre-SWG-revamp doctor buffs were the sole reason I quit that game.
Had it been up to me, I woulda made teams just instantly receive the buffs when a buffer class joins, and give them more active skills to play with.
Yeah I know, it's broken in a million ways and would change too much, but it's a revamp I would sit the entire team down with and work out in better detail.
I play another mmo on and off where there are no buffs in the same sense (the only buffs are toggles you use more actively and situationally, and passives that gives your team a bonus), and it's just so.. strangely refreshing not having to go through with that same repeated chore over and over and over again.
@ Tarun
Ever played Earth and Beyond?
I liked the game but it's dead now.. Anyway in that game the addition of a member to a group too did add buff automatically.
I loved that system to be frank as in L2 buffs are way to independent in the way we can recieve them.
I am thinking potions, the normal ones from the shop / race track but allso those you can get via the merchant of Mammon and ofcourse to a greater exstent the clanhall buffs.
Therefor making buffer caster dependent will force groupplay to be a more/better way to play the game. Look at teh way the WC/OL works.
Pros (imho):
* Less gank groups going around. or atleast limited to 20min. To be a zerg group people will need buffs. To have buffs in my senario you will have to have a buffer/healer in the gankgroup to be able to have those buffs. The damagedealing gankers will now have to look out for their buffer/healer or loose the ablility to have those buffs/heals.
* Since XP in general is faster via a buffed group larger groups will we a better way to XP meaning you will have more defence against ganking.
* PvP needs high lvl toons to be able to survive longer. To have that you need good healers to be able to make the differance in outliving an attack. Again this will force people to group up with those that can heal better aka Bishops/EE meaning it will become mandatory to group them too.
* Powerlvl becomes less attracktive as well. Remember that to XP at a good speed people will have to have a healer/buffer in group now. It allso means that the one leeching becomes more prominent in the way he/she crepples the XPing during the time of the "powerlvling".
* Powerlvling lowby toons become near impossible forcing people to look for partymembers of their lvl. I see it as a possitive thing tho as it will make it easier for newbies to group up with vets. This in itself is only a good way to find new clanmembers to be. And the potential for the newbies is the knowledge they get via the vets.
I see only pros at this time tho but please list your cons.
****, our buffer just d/c and we are in a room with 20 agro mobs, now we have no buffs.
Dang our healer DC'ed and we are in a room with aggro...
So?
Dang our tank DC'ed and we are in a room with aggro...
So?
You're missing the point. Like everyone else said, buffs have a huge % on what they do.
Your tank d/c's you can always heal and switch off on who is tanking until you get out of the danger. You can also always use healing pots.
Your healer d/c's. Again, you got healing pots and can have the tank not hate and let someone pull agro for a couple hits, then have the tank hate. They will still have UD too.
Now your buffer d/c's. This means all your stats are down about 50%, some maybe even more. You are slow so running away you will take more dmg. You hit slow, so you are doing less dmg. You dont have the Patk/Matk so you are doing less dmg. You dont have defensive buffs so you are taking a lot of dmg. The healer there probably wont be able to sleep or do much crowd control cause for one, with the amount of damage being taken now, heals are going to be coming out the [censored]. Even with heal pots, I would rather have my buffs. Healer will cast very slow, and once they get mobs on them, it is game over.
If that prophet d/c and all buffs are gone, you dont realize how horrible that would be. Any group out there would rather try to run through the pytan room or floor 10 without a tank, or a healer instead of no buffs.
Now the buff pots, so we got haste ww and acumen. Thats great. We arent going to sit there for 2 mins using dw, focus, might, shield and what ever else there is while all the mobs are on us. Chances are, they will get interupted before you get the buff.
Look at it like this, which is easier to solo. No buffs, or no healer?
Well if you have a situation like that I would say you overesitmated yourself group versus mobs in the way you can handle the situation. Besides most classes do have forms of selfbuffs UE or UD. You could allways use those if the buffer DC'ed.
Your reply only strenghtens my point as it does mean people will have to rely more on live toons then autofollow toons.
Yes, the way people XP/PvP will have to be adjusted. But at the same time the live buffer is more needed.
In a way NCsoft allready is helping solo'ing toons out in the form of the herbs/mana en hp-potions dropping from the mobs.
Well, I am discussing it if it was possible. A man can dream can't he?
Sure some folks agree some don't. No-one likes change unless it's a possitive change from their point of view. I respect that.
The discussion I started would be a possitive change in my view and I so started it in the first place. I listed why I see it as a possitive change from my point of view as a L52 Prophet / L72 SE as I have those. If I ever get the time to make a Bishop/EE I may include those toons. I allso ask people to throw in their idea's or views about the remark I made earlier in this thread.
In hideview I should have started it in the Game Suggestion thread but it grow after the remark I made so I continued it here.
* Powerlvling lowby toons become near impossible forcing people to look for partymembers of their lvl. I see it as a possitive thing tho as it will make it easier for newbies to group up with vets. This in itself is only a good way to find new clanmembers to be. And the potential for the newbies is the knowledge they get via the vets.
I see only pros at this time tho but please list your cons.
Am I missing something in this point? Not trying to be hard headed, but the logic doesn't seem right. I keep looking at it and my brain freezes. If people are forced to look for partymembers their own level, how are newbies going to meet the vets? Most of the "vets" are at higher levels. Or is the power leveling that you refer to here the type where a high level creates a new alt and then power levels it with his high level clannies?
A "vet" doesn't have to be higher level. It could be a rerolled character or alt. The point is, if you have to party with people your level, a lvl 20 rerolled dark wizard can't get powerleveled by a lvl 78 Shillien Saint. The veteran player has to party with people his level, and thus the rest of his conclusions follow.
This would NEVER happen as people would work around it somehow. Leave the SE out of exp range or forcelog it so the buffs don't go away (if DCs didn't cause buffs to drop). They'd leave some loophole so parties that had a prophet DC didn't die. Hell an A grade buffer and a D grade dd probably earns more exp for the D grader than without.
And a buffs dropping during aggro is very different from a healer dropping. No buffs reduces your potential as a fighter by almost 1/3. Losing buffs is FAR worse than losing a healer or tank. Think back, what were originally the tougher raid bosses...ones with AOE cancel. Buffs are everything.
I agree, and now I understand which way you were going with that. I re-roll fairly often on purpose just so that I can meet new people that have just started the game. As the clan leader I feel it's my job to do that. The latest 3 additions to my clan came when I re-rolled a Warlock. I met the 3 of them at level 20. Both they and my clan have benefitted from this. We have been able to help them, knowledge of the game and a bit of help with equipment, and they have added value to the clan with their characters and additude. Being new to the game they look at some things differently than we who have been there a while do. I would suggest that other clan leaders do the same, if they don't already, it's nice to run into fresh players with a new viewpoint.