Hi all, I've made a fresh new dwarf on Franz server, and I was wondering: how the shorties does survive in a world of PVPer, without nearly any combat skills? Do we get harrassed again and again by PKers? Its the dorf life one of sorrow?
Tnx,
Ive found that dwarves are often targetted by PKers. Ive never been PKed as much as when Im playing dwarf - but they werent tagged either. If you are in a relatively well known clan, you will probably get PKed less (because then they know youre not a farmer).
Yeah you uhm might want to reroll now while your dwarf is still a lowbie. Or else in a few months, you'll come here complaining how Dwarfs Suck at pvp and can't make any adena, can't craft well or can't spoil well.
Dont listen to them!
I spoiled 5 EWC in the past 3 days with my BH.. couldnt have done it with any other toon.. :)
They do make money (sometimes)..
Stick with the dorfs!
you say so admiral ? Its that the future deserves to us? (I feel like Im already part of dorf community...:P)
Hope to find something interesting in the little fellow. Else I'll reroll :) tnx for the advice anyway :)
you say so admiral ? Its that the future deserves to us? (I feel like Im already part of dorf community...:P)
Hope to find something interesting in the little fellow. Else I'll reroll :) tnx for the advice anyway :)
Considering the following few pieces, you might see why I said that:
1) I waisted about 5 months playing a Bounty Hunter. She is currently at lvl 48(deleveled) and only reason I have to log her in is to train some lowbie dwarfs for their drops. Spoils for really good stuff is RARE but not as rare as a full item drop. You will be spoiling a lot of crap. After a certain level, it will be too expencive to solo and how often do you see: "BH LFG!!!" ? Rare sight Indeed.
2) I have waisted another month and a half on an Artisan. She is resting at lvl 32. Every craft with the exception of a FEW Rare items is worthless untill you get to at least lvl 52.
The Souls Shots / Blessed Spiritshots that dwarfs craft, they quite litteraly make Pennies, IE: 2-3a per SS sold. Count all your pennies for this one cause u're gonna need them. The very Few RARE items that are desirable and craft only IE: Elven Mith gloves, Karmian Gloves, are rare buy, and it maybe hard/long to grind mobs for the Key mats. Etc. How often do you see: "Artisan/Warsmith LFG!"? Me, Never. Lol, a few days ago we were doing a raid, and needed 1 other person, well, he didn't tell the raid group his class, so when he got invited to the group, he got promptly kicked cause he's a Dwarf with no real damage skills.
When you hit lvl 52 and above, a lot of the Crafts you have are 60% with a few that are 70% and very few that are 100%. At lvl 61, all your crafts excluding basic matc are 60%, and loosing millions of adena on a Failed Craft is......Painful.
3) PvP = Pvp as a dwarf, haha. I know a dwarf who's lvl 73 and has 1 PvP point, but oh how he tries and tries to pvp (BH).
When C4 and C5 came out, guess which class got 0 new skills added to them?
Any class outthere, especially Nukers and Archers can make tripple if not more the amount of Adena just by Hunting. Dwarfs, well, you get to sit on your tooshie in Giran crafting SS while getting 0 xp.
I find dwarfs to be the least fun class to play and I've tried nearly all classes now, least amount of skills, least amount of adena making, least amount of Grouping unless you have a Clan that's good, in that case, they'll just bring you along like an extra appendage that's not really needed, but out of courtesy or pity.
So you'll usually be leveling Alone for the lot of the time, some people may confuse you for being a Bot and start training/pk'ing you, etc.
Well Cama, if you enjoy playing for Dwarf good for you. But your obviously aware now that they are pretty much a non-factor in PvP, get pick on by PKers more than other toons (though that is often just an excuse of their part) and are seriously undercut by less 'Moral' players when it comes to their unique skills.
Don't give up with your dwarf though, stick with it and see how it goes.
Aye. Just about the only kind of person who 'might' have fun with a Dwarf as their Main toon is someone who has a hell lot of a time to spend in Lineage2 and very, very dedicated.
If you ask me, a class that is very fun is a Bladedancer. Loved by all, great damage, good PvP, solid class all around.
I have witnessed a high-20's dwarf rip apart a 5x human warrior like he was tissue paper.
So lets assume the best case scenario and make it a lvl 29 Dwarf against a lvl 50 human warrior, who indeed did not make any second class chance and is stuck with lvl 40 skills.
Let us also assume, that the lvl 50 warrior was braindead and was not wearing any C-grade equipment at the time of that "battle". I would still assume, that the warrior was going AFK during the fight and that is why the Dwarf won (with the use of potions).
A lvl difference of 21 levels and the dwarf was "ripping him apart like tissue paper" ? Sorry, but I would PAY to see that video.
oh well... meh.... uhm..... I'll came back to my beloved Elven Fighter going to be archer :)
Thanks for the info, my RL has got enough problems for me to take a fictional one with as many :) :)
Thank you all, sincerely, and bye bye dorf :) :)
I wouldn't call Dwarves a "non-factor in PvP". At higher levels, they can build siege weaponry that can make or break a castle attack.
As for 1v1 or olympiad, you're going to get rolled, but a hog cannon is invaluable to a siege attempt. Our alliance only has one WS that can build them, so we're looking for another. =/
Akjosch you cant imagine how I am sincerely sad to leave my dorf. Since now, its the most funny char I've made (and I've tried a few). I've enjoyed pure grind, even without the newbie buffs, the nb weapon and lots of ss from first char on a server. But sincerely I cant stand a char that is "very few thing good, rest sucks" at this time :) Maybe after a year or two of teraphy :P :P
I did say "pretty much a non-factor in PvP". I'm aware that they can be an enormous help when it comes to attacking castles, but to level a character which will only be of use once a fortnight (at most) takes a very committed person, and ideally should involve the support and help of a clan/alliance.
(I won't mention that I'm lvling a future Overlord ;) )
A group of 20 nukers who's easelty more found then any alive WS can easely take down castle dors quite fast, and most sieges thers even more then 20 nukers, usualy +100 of em, no dorr last long with that.
WS is defetively not needed. Not only that, it's quite hard for an WS to summon a gollem, then stay alive and attack the wall/dorr, it's much harder to drop 20+ nukers doing the same.
Somepeople like playing dwarves, some don't. If you enjoy playing one I would encourage you to continue to do so, after all the game should be enjoyed. If you are the kind of person who has to be uber at PvP (I won't go into the personality traits that make some people feel that way, ya know...making up for other inadequaces) then dwarves might not be for you.
If you can find a Good bunch of people to clan with, then they will Love you as a dwarf. The BH will make the clan rich and outfit the members. The artisan will do the crafting, shots armor jewels and weapons at a fraction of the cost of buying them on the market. Your clannies, if wise, will always invite you, help you hunt, and stick up for you. If you are in a clan where they do not do this, perhaps start looking.
Regarding PvP. Some PKers don't like to fight dwarves because they take so darn long to kill with all the HP. Many PKers are looking for a thrill and pounding on a 8k HP+CP dwarf can be kinda boring. If one does attack you, Stun and Yell, others might like the opportunity to come and pick up a red's drops and the time it takes the red to kill you gives them the opportunity.
You might win, too. A month or so ago my BH was told to leave her hunt grounds by a human wiz (w/buff bot) of about her level. Caught my dwarf on a bad day, I guess, and she explained to the wiz some of the traits of his ancestors in a bit more detail than he seemed to want to face, so he attacked her. Stun, whap whap whap whap, STUN, whap whap whap whap (repeated several times) and picked up some mats. They cursed and went to town so I sat and regenned until I could target them returning. Run up to them so they don't have the distance advantage. Stun, whap whap whap, STUN, whap whap whap...no drops this time. Repeat a third time, no drops again, and wiz decided that maybe he doesn't want to hunt there after all.
Same grade of armor, I am not sure of the levels tho. Perhaps the wiz wasn't the best PvPer on the server but I still felt pretty happy putting him in the dirt three times running. Plus, I'll bet that, as a dwarf, I got much more personal satisfaction from that then I would have as a dagger or wiz.
Only the solo dwarves, or those that do not know their build.
I have witnessed a high-20's dwarf rip apart a 5x human warrior like he was tissue paper.
Yes, it took a ton of greater heal potions and shots, but the dwarf won.
Also, any dwarf in a clan that gets involved in PVP should be able to count on their clan to come back them up. It may be after the fact, but...
Hey, a victory is a victory, right?
Right?
Um... Right?
Last time I checked you didnt need a TON of greater heal pots and shots to rip apart TISSUE paper....and I HIGHLY doubt that you saw a high 20's dwarf win over a 5x ANYTHING.
Do you even play a dwarf???
Dwarves are for gathering mats and crafting crap. Nothing more...and with manor and all the other garbage* out there ya might as well nix gathering mats too.
My advice? Reroll as a mage or something I guess...or get to 40 on a BH and just train people in the cata's all day.
Aye. Just about the only kind of person who 'might' have fun with a Dwarf as their Main toon is someone who has a hell lot of a time to spend in Lineage2 and very, very dedicated.
:( :( :(
How utterly sad for you. I personally enjoy my dwarf. She is fun to play. I don't have hours on end to spend ingame because of RL. But when I do get the time, I love spoiling things! To the OP: Dont let one former, depressed, dwarf make your play choice for you. There are alot of us out here that completely enjoy our dwarves and find many fun things about them.
I have witnessed a high-20's dwarf rip apart a 5x human warrior like he was tissue paper.
LOL. That must have been some dream you had. I remember one PvP when I was about level 47-48 on my WS. Three of us beating on an acrher about 10 levels above me. I rarely even hit him. He would ignore me and kill the other two fighters. When he finally turned on me I would stop attacking, so I would go white before he got through my health. The other two fighters would be rezed, and the whole thing repeated. But the main point is that I hit only 1:4 swings. No way could I kill that archer.
Now I am level 76. I dont miss anymore, but the mages still ignore me. My stuns rarely land. I usually can do no more than 200 damage to a squishy mage.
Heal pots, thats a laugh. I was fighting an angel on toi 10 when I got jumped by an SH. The fight was something like this:
Angel hits you for 150 damage
SH hits for 1200 damage
SH hits for 1200 damage
SH hits for 1200 damage
You have used a BSOE
Heal pots will only delay the inevitable.
To the OP:
You survive by using the two advantages you have
1.) A high health allows you time to get to your BSOE.
2.) In mass PvP, you suck so much that they kill you last, which allows you to get to your BSOE.
Aye. Just about the only kind of person who 'might' have fun with a Dwarf as their Main toon is someone who has a hell lot of a time to spend in Lineage2 and very, very dedicated.
:( :( :(
How utterly sad for you. I personally enjoy my dwarf. She is fun to play. I don't have hours on end to spend ingame because of RL. But when I do get the time, I love spoiling things! To the OP: Dont let one former, depressed, dwarf make your play choice for you. There are alot of us out here that completely enjoy our dwarves and find many fun things about them.
Proud Toma Hater club member in good standing. :D
Like you MelaQuinn, I don't have that much time to play, but I really enjoy my BH. Give me Prophet buffs and she's over 6k HP...the only toons I tend to have a problem with in PvP are Nukers and Archers due to their range...but then if my SE gets to root em then the battle is on. :)
Spoiling? Yeah, real good spoils may not happen all that often, but in the last month I've spoiled enuf mats to make a Sword of Whispering Death, Scorpion Blade and Great Pata's...not to mention I've been able to craft most of my gear as I go along because of the spoils. It's also not uncommon to just sit and sell the mats after several hours of play and make a few hundred K...
It's all about playstyle and what you like. Not many people enjoy being a healing class but I find it's one of the more exciting and busy classes when in group or PvP. The only time I've run away from a PvP battle on my dwarf is when I realized I forgot to pickup SS and heal pots. :mad: Then again, I don't get picked on much out in the open.
I've also leveled a BD, Glad, Necro and SR (altho none of them made it to B grade since I got tired of them) - but that's the key, you have to play toons for a bit to find out if you really like em...BTW, my dwarf was the easiest toon to level up that I've tried :)
Hmm melee hit my mage for a lot more than 200 usually.
Mages with their most powerful nuke do about 700 damage to a non-mdef class when properly buffed. Keep in mind that mages have absolutely no defense anymore except their burst damage... and C5 brings buffs aplenty to nerf the bejeebers out of mage nukes.
If you are getting hit for 1200, you are underequipped, underbuffed, or under-levelled.
Dwarves have a LOT of HP, but they also have pretty low DPS.
Stun lands and hurts mages a LOT. Never mind the damage... think of it as damage prevention... and remember the mage has ONLY that as a defense now.
A single stun landed probably means dead mage in Group PvP.
1v1 PvP against an even-skilled, even-equipped, even buffed opponent should result in a dorf losing... Dorfs aren't exactly designed to be the best at PvP due to their money-making skills. FYI, if you have trouble making more money on a dorf than with any other class... you are not playing it right.
Make the fight interesting.. charge the mage until he stops ignoring you. Hopefully you land a stun and he insta-dies.
Maybe you don't... but each time you get to try, you may get to add a PvP point.
Mages are currently easy PvP point targets for skilled players...
This means they are currently in the realm of beatable for a dorf.
Granted, killing anyone in PvP with a dorf is a challenge...
but its possible.
(Curiosity got the better of me, but when you say lvl 5x Human Warrior do you mean he hadn't done his 2nd Class Change Quest?)
I suspect he was a Dark Avenger. I don't know for sure. And it was a hell of a fight. I (being the dwarf) got trained by said human.
Pulled out the glaive, made short work of the mobs. Switched to duals and threw a Greater Swift Attack potion and started in on him.
Landed a stun once (bonebreaker ftw), and proceeded to just rip through him slowly. Greater healing potions (And I suspect a lack of skill on his end) kept me alive.
When he threw UD, I just stepped back and let it wear off, let my HP recover.
One hell of a rush, I'll say that much.
Morale of the story: A dwarf with duals and the proper potions/buffs is a blender.
Ben nuked for as much as 2k in damage, yes in +3 Unsealed A grade yewelry and buffed with M.def related buffs.
And about hiting mages, yeah about 200 / hit is probobly correct, thats what I average hiting an even leveled SPS in B grade robes at lv 7x, crits sure then you hit more ofcorse.
Abotu defence, I've seen nukers with almost as much P.def as my darn dwarf themself, teh P.def difference is very tiny, we talk less then 150-200 P.def endgame ( yes not joking ) wich is itself is about 20% Less defence.
Thers ben TONS of intensive tests about stun, the average land rate is pretyt low about 30-40% of the time, and the average lasting time is 2 hits befor stun disepate. So aka saying that as long as you get one stun in the dwarf have won is sooo darn wrong.
And PS the last thing Thalenduros, dwarves have NO money making abilities, they where lost a hell a long time ago, if you want to make real cash, make a good DD char and your set, by killing mobs hell a lot faster & seeding at hte same time you can pull in a few mil cash more then any spoil wuld give. Trust me I know this I'm a BH myself and I use manor to actually gain cash.
My spoil disepate to other members, how biger group you play in, the more peoples you devide the items with and the more cash you lose. Soloing is almost not possible you can do it somewhat but not gonna make you get cash.
Anyhow yes dwarves CAN beat an even leveled nuker if hte nuker is notthing more then self buffed and the dwarf the same aka no buffs but pots, in an situation like this, a dwarf have a tiny chans to beat a nuker, all depence if stun lands, and last more then 2 hits wich is pretty rare, rarer then 1/10 tries ofcorse.
Hmm melee hit my mage for a lot more than 200 usually.
Mages with their most powerful nuke do about 700 damage to a non-mdef class when properly buffed. Keep in mind that mages have absolutely no defense anymore except their burst damage... and C5 brings buffs aplenty to nerf the bejeebers out of mage nukes.
If you are getting hit for 1200, you are underequipped, underbuffed, or under-levelled.
Dwarves have a LOT of HP, but they also have pretty low DPS.
Stun lands and hurts mages a LOT. Never mind the damage... think of it as damage prevention... and remember the mage has ONLY that as a defense now.
A single stun landed probably means dead mage in Group PvP.
1v1 PvP against an even-skilled, even-equipped, even buffed opponent should result in a dorf losing... Dorfs aren't exactly designed to be the best at PvP due to their money-making skills. FYI, if you have trouble making more money on a dorf than with any other class... you are not playing it right.
Make the fight interesting.. charge the mage until he stops ignoring you. Hopefully you land a stun and he insta-dies.
Maybe you don't... but each time you get to try, you may get to add a PvP point.
Mages are currently easy PvP point targets for skilled players...
This means they are currently in the realm of beatable for a dorf.
Granted, killing anyone in PvP with a dorf is a challenge...
but its possible.
Do you think that I was dreaming these situations?
I have been hit for ~2200 damage (both dark vortex and light vortex) through unsealed majestic+3 jewelry. Since I am level 76, how much higher level do you think the nuker is? There obviously cant be more that 2-3 levels difference this early in C5.
Now I will admit that it is rumored that the mage I was up against had all 5 epic jewelry pieces (some stun resitance there I think?). And I finally did stun him on the 5th try. But guess what, the rest of my party was dead by then.
I have fought against 2 mages since I was level 75. Both were prob level 78 and most likely in S grade. I wear majestic armor and use a +3 Elysian. Both times I had some buffs, but I was set up for PvE. I consistantly hit these 2 mages for 150-200 damage. I rarely crit. Between the 2 battles I got off 1 stun in 8-10 tries.
Until you are in my shoes you have no right to make uninformed comments on my equipment or skills.
BTW, we had a whole party after the SH and an archer that helped him. We added up damage on the SH, it came to over 10k, about 1500 from me alone. So if 10k of damage can't kill an SH how will my 1500 damage worry him?
Dorfs aren't exactly designed to be the best at PvP due to their money-making skills.
Would you care to Re-itterate for me please just exactly what are these "Money Making" Skills? Craft B/A/S grades?
You mean that's 'After' you buy all the needed recipes and actually 'succeed' in crafting the item?
Spoiling stuff? heh, you know, in a properly working manor system, Manor will outdo the meager spoils a dwarf makes anyday, anytime, provided you can turn in the fruits.
FYI, if you have trouble making more money on a dorf than with any other class... you are not playing it right
Uhm, sitting on [Censored] in Giran and Merchanting does not equal = Dwarfs are the best money makers.
I have witnessed a high-20's dwarf rip apart a 5x human warrior like he was tissue paper.
Uhm, pardon me, and i'm not accusing anyone here, but ****, someone must have been smoking something really good =)
PS: On these forums boards, I consider nameless1 and Schmusekatze to be the authority on dwarfs, and you should really search their post history to see how just how many Dwarf Gripe threads these 2 people put out here. really.
PS: On these forums boards, I consider nameless1 and Schmusekatze to be the authority on dwarfs, and you should really search their post history to see how just how many Dwarf Gripe threads these 2 people put out here. really.
lol
yeah we both pretty much hate our class lol
stun land rate is about 30%, the average last rate of stun is 2.6 hits before it breaks
average damage on a third class mage (low pdef low evasion) from a third class dwarf is 200 damage, we arent meant to beat mages but i note that because mages have the lowest pdef of all non evasion classes
a mage will generally nuke a third class dwarf in +3 unsealed majestic jewles for 1.5k damage with a som. vortex spells will hit for 2.5k unbuffed and 2k with mdef buffs (no elemental resists)
all that is prolly irrelevent because the only class we are meant to beat is tanks, and the only class we should have a 50/50 chance of beating is other warriors (glad, tyrant, destro)
you have to be stupid to think any dwarf can beat a tank and apart from gladiators (before they got boosted) any other warrior class tears me apart
my 6x necro sub makes more adena a day xpping than my high 70's maestro does while gaining zero xp
try and keep in mind that most ppl will tell you necro is an expensive class and maestro is a money making class
so nc gave us a place in the pvp "balance" system but it really doesnt exist
they gave us an economic advantage but it doesnt exist
No clan on a new server can afford to run around without a WS and a BH. After all, who is going to find the mats and make you that C-gear you need? Who will summon the siege golem?
There is a good opportunity for a dwarf on Franz. But you better get on with it and join a clan fast before they outlevel you to much. Remember, in a clan, they will help the ws to level and the bh is always welcome to join because of his moneymaking skills. Equip your WS with a polearm, and you are almost a good as the warlord in aoe parties as well.
There is a good opportunity for a dwarf on Franz. But you better get on with it and join a clan fast before they outlevel you to much. Remember, in a clan, they will help the ws to level and the bh is always welcome to join because of his moneymaking skills. Equip your WS with a polearm, and you are almost a good as the warlord in aoe parties as well.
yup
if there was ever a chance for a dwarf to be useful it would be on a new server
i have a higher PvP+PK score on my scavy than on my main. reason for this is simple. bots dont use ss, if you train them enough they will flag, and i have deleveled more times than they have :(