I went back home at like 4am and decided to play an hour before going to sleep.I logged into gustin to see my lovely sorceress. While wandering around in dion(cause there was none in giran sold) to find some cbsps, i saw a package sale of AA..Title said 1 a.. I double clicked and it was 11m..I said ok easy profit if i resell, then w00f i earned 1 AA..
This guy stole like 85% of my hard earned adena,which I was saving to get myself a Sov.I petition and some auto response came a few seconds later that they dont interfear with such things..I know that you guys gonna say that "oldest thing in the book",but that was a HUGE setback for me.
I am a legit player.I wouldnt buy adena (11m = 3-4 euros as far as I know so no big deal)...
So what is the point of playing this game full of bots , scammers , ebayers?? That was at least frustrating.. Almost A grade expertise with C weapon is not what I would call fun..
This should of been in player questions not general discussion.
Classic scamm, reverting the price and wording... you scammed your self in this one, cause you didn't read what was in the item you just read what the title says.
it's just like when you see SS/sps, and they revert the cost so there is like 54 SS, and the cost is 1460. so instead of buying 1460 you buy 54 and lose w/e 1460 X 54 is. even tho the title says 1460 SS for sell...it's a old scamm been going on for ages... just like soul ore for A crys, been going on sence C3.
I know it's my **** fault.. I know that **** scam.. I usually pay much attention..I just didn't this time :(
My question is WHY ncsoft won't do anything against them?
Maybe I'll create a new toon and try to scam myself.. In the end everyone will be thinking this way , which is NOT good :////
NCSoft wont' do anything against scammers for the same reason they don't do anything about PKers: They're part of the game.
I'm neither, by the way (I'm always open about asking very low prices :) ).
That's exactly it: "This is the game".
This is a game of player vs player in a very pure form. Brutal world where only the strong survive, etc., etc. It's like playing football and getting upset because the really, realy, big linebacker tackles you. It's part of the game, you either accept it or you quit your NFL job.
The OP is one in a long line of people who have been/will be scammed.
I'm not sure if there is one but some sort of disclaimer should be written up so that people who are expecting a more even handed game will be more prepared for the type of gameplay that goes on.
I'm not for pk'ers and scammers but I am for the idea of a game where it is completely open gameplay. Whether we players continue to play in such a game is our own choosing and a choice that we make every day.
Theoretically you would then gather your clan/alliance, declare war on the guy's clan/alliance and make him/her give you back the money (or die trying).
Since there are so many untagged alts, secondary workers, etc this is not always possible.
Learn to pay attention to detail or don't play...I had a insadent happen to me where I spent 29m on EA/A cause I thought it said 98k, I didn't know I spent the wrong adena, but I didn't complain about it...I did how ever ask the NCsoft crew how I lost aden out of the blue like I did!
I was wrong so what I got over it...took me a week but I did and I'm still playing.
We've all done it, and I bet you don't do it again. It's no ones fault but your own. I try not to shop when I'm tired because it's so easy to do, it's like your brain just auto corrects the shop mistake and you click away.
In general there are 'good deals' (rare) and 'scams' in the market.
There are NO GREAT DEALS (unless you witness someone sitting down with a new sell shop that forgot a zero!).
If the guy is selling "mithril heavy +3 for 200k" that's a GOOD deal.
If they are selling supposed A-crystals for 1,500 a--that's a scam.
I've almost made the mistake you made a couple of times myself--and I consider myself pretty much of a market veteran.
Care and attention always. Always.
It's one reason that I think people take honest crafters for granted! Since private creation shops it's become popular to think you don't need any relationship with a dwarf! I ALWAYS buy those things I buy from the same people. If they are out I go do something else. After months of dealing with them I have had only good experiences. Learn the sellers and use the honest ones--even if they sell for 1a more than strangers.
It's greed that makes such scams possible.
(*laughs---it will only be a matter of time b4 I post the same message: "I got scammed and I'm furious!")
Was that a bit harsh, nole? Jeez. Sympathy may not fix anything but it's free.
No one plays this game without mistakes (see thread "I confess" for some laughs) and we all would like a figurative reassuring pat on the back--even when we are careless.
Your call on the response i suppose.
Well, that's the thing, you do learn to pay attention or else you are forever destined to be screwed.
Still doesn't mean one can't be sorry for the first time it happens. It's like your child climbing a tree but not paying attention and falling. You don't then kick him in the head to drive your point across.
Of course, if it happens a second time you can then kick him in the head.
Was that a bit harsh, nole? Jeez. Sympathy may not fix anything but it's free.
No one plays this game without mistakes (see thread "I confess" for some laughs) and we all would like a figurative reassuring pat on the back--even when we are careless.
Your call on the response i suppose.
attetion to deatail gets every one at some point.
It's one of the most bigest things they drive into you in the Marines and at bootcamp.
It's easy to not see something just plainly over looked it.
But I souldn't have to feel sorry for every single player that post to the boards about how they fell for a scam, in the 3 years that I've played this game I've seen over 50+ post about being scammed.
At this point in the game: why should I feel sorry?
would any of you feel sorry for me had I got hacked and lost all my stuff.. whilest my bow that I'm cerrently am using is on loan from a dear friend...I'm most certian that no one would gave a ****..well maybe 3 people mite...the rest wouldn't.
It's one of the most bigest things they drive into you in the Marines and at bootcamp.
It's easy to not see something just plainly over looked it.
But I souldn't have to feel sorry for every single player that post to the boards about how they fell for a scam, in the 3 years that I've played this game I've seen over 50+ post about being scammed.
At this point in the game: why should I feel sorry?
would any of you feel sorry for me had I got hacked and lost all my stuff.. whilest my bow that I'm cerrently am using is on loan from a dear friend...I'm most certian that no one would gave a ****..well maybe 3 people mite...the rest wouldn't.
ah, well that explains it. In the marines, if you don't pay attention, you're dead. So it puts thing in perspective to know where you are coming from.
However, in most people's lives (the people who you are protecting and keeping safe.. incidentally, thanks... I appreciate it as most people don't put their lives on the line so that I can hang out and do the things I want, when I want :D ) when we don't pay attention, the report doesn't get sent out, the colors are all wrong and "it" has to be sent back to the printer, a bug appears and it has to be fixed, etc.
And there is a difference in pitying someone and commiserating with them.
For instance, I am sorry that you lost your stuff. It's just a general statement that it sucks and I'm on your side. I don't pity you though because you are a strong guy and I know you will bounce back.
What always gets me is why people don't do more research into these games before they play. It's like they see the promo and just go out and purchase. Just by looking at a few reviews (especially the earlier ones) a person can get that this is a brutal game. Quite frankly I thought I wasn't going to last a week. Just wanted to load it up and see what an online game was about, especially one with the type of art design this had.
I got scammed once over a year ago, lost 30-40 million, but I got over it eventually. Takes a lot of hard work to get it back. It was stupid, and I haven't been scammed since. Live and learn ;)
Ok... first NC changed the shops so it color coded the price hoping people would know that they are getting scammed. Now in C5 they changed it AGAIN so the price is spelled out for you. (IE 1 million 2 thousand etc) I really thought that this would prevent more scams. You really have to be very tired or moving far too fast to not notice something spelled out in shiny colors. @_@
Best tip I can give is to only carry as much adena as you are willing to spend. That may not work if you're trying to buy 11m AA, but in most cases it will be an extra safety net for you.
Problem with scamming is that it it to easy and holds no risk for the scammer. The victim has absolutely no way to police things for himself.
That is what is wrong with the current status quo imo.
See this is something that I'd agree with.
NCSoft need to put GMs in giran & Dion, or allow some kind of player system that allows us to police our towns.
At this point I could care less about one lvling spot, what I care about is the towns, this is the bigest sease pool of scammers and cheeters.(AFK programs that keep your shop up and full all the time)
Do somthing about your main trade spots...or give the players some way to pollice these zones. (Giran, godad, dion, MRT)
I think what he's getting at is that while you can protect yourself from scamming, there is no risk involved for the scammer as you can do it with an alt. Not even a loss of reputation or trust.
If someone scams me and logs, I can't kos him or expose him to his clan leader. This is why - even though scamming happens in reallife and is why it helps contribute to making L2 the dog-eat-dog world it is - it feels rather synthetic and not very lifelike, in lack of better terms.
I'm not saying scamming is a "problem" by far though. Just that it's annoying how risk free it is.
Elrohir you are not answering my point here. I am not arguiing that a carefull player can avoid a scam. He can avoid being killed in PvE and in PvP as well if he is careful. That is not the point.
The point is that scamming gives both great rewards and is without any risk. I find that in contradiction with every other aspect of the game.
Ok while i feel bad for the OP i think Elrohir is kinda hitting the nail on the head. I see alot of "I've been scammed" posts recently and i think it really boils down to the player.
I also think being able to scam, while not condoning it, helps create the hardcore atmosphere that alot of people come to play L2 for. The best that people can say and do is: "This is a scammer. This is a scammer on the end of my pike because he is a scammer. Any questions?"
I mean its pretty hardcore when you think about it. This is,of course, just my opinion. I think a general "buyer's beware" should be good enough without having to hold someone's hand.
Sorry OP for your loss, the only thing you can do is suck it up and keep moving forward :) Good luck! Adena is always replaceable as well as armor (be it with tons of work or cash, it is still replaceable no matter HOW you look at it and while yes it sucks, it still has the ability to be earned back)
I also think being able to scam, while not condoning it, helps create the hardcore atmosphere that alot of people come to play L2 for. The best that people can say and do is: "This is a scammer. This is a scammer on the end of my pike because he is a scammer. Any questions?"
I mean its pretty hardcore when you think about it. This is,of course, just my opinion. I think a general "buyer's beware" should be good enough without having to hold someone's hand.
So what is hardcore about doing a scam? There is no way that people can put your head on a pike anyway. It is the least hardcore aspect in the game from the scammers pov.
It depends from what perspective you look at it. If you look at it *purely* from a scammer's perspective, that's when I say it's too easy and risk free.
I could train a team in any cata. I need a high level char to do it, I could risk dying, losing my gear, but most importantly I'm ruining my rep and will be known as a griefer.
Or, I could just go make an alt and plop my *** down in monster derby and try to gank people's a-grade helmets with *no* risk or consequence *at all*
Essentially the idea is that it is a "dangerous world".
and though there is risk in pvp and pve, you don't have exact control over those elements of the game. But you do have control over over scamming in that you get to make the decison "do I click 'ok' or not".
The only other thing that the game makers could do I suppose is make it so that every item in the game has it's own unique graphic.
Can't think of a system that could be used to police scammers at all, except maybe something that puts a symbol next to a shop that is over-charging for an item by more than X%. (because MOST items sell for more than NPC price anyway) That sounds like more lag in giran to me though. @_@
The amount of scamming that happens isn't a problem. It doesn't need to be "regulated". Heck, it could be fun if it was "encouraged". All I want is for there to be some risk and consequence involved.
Edit: For example. Say only buffers/summoners could imbue weapons with SA's up until their own grade. You would have to trade your SoM weapon and lvl 12 crystal to the a-grade warlock. It would be very possible for him to scam you, even easier than doing a name or trade spam scam, but if he decides to do gank it, there's a huge consequence involved.
Same with crafting. Get rid of the craft shops and dwarves would be more able to scam (seriously, I see that as a good thing), but the good would quickly be separated from the bad. Scamming would be perfectly possible and doable, but there would be risk and consequence involved.
You could give classes all sorts of skills (assuming you remove them from the npc's) like convert weapon, unseal/reseal, remove SA, de-level SA, and so on. Anything that involves you having to trade your stuff to someone else for a moment.
The thing about scamming in this game is that its a bulk statistics crime. Meaning its not about Joe 1 not clicking ok, or Joe 2 not clicking ok...its going on long enough so that maybe just 1 Joe out of 100 doesn't think for just that short second that makes it all worth it...there's no risk involved so you can just keep at it over and over again.
except maybe something that puts a symbol next to a shop that is over-charging for an item by more than X%.
This isn't scamming.
Selling dss for 18a is not scamming. It's stupid--like buying dss at 18.
If everyone is selling Elven Long Swords for 4.0 million and there are 2 for sale in Dion. A player might take a chance and post his ELS for 4.25 or 4.5 mill.
You don't wanna pay that much then don't.
Sorry for rant, this is a pet-peeve of mine. Charging more than others is not scamming. It's a market.
If someone advertises A-crystals for a low price and you get soul-ore, you've been scammed.
If someone says their aa is 3 adena on buy window and you find inside it's listed at 30a--that's a scam.
If they advertise "AA for 5a" and it's inside the shop at "5a" they aren't scamming (though they're being more than a little 'hopeful' imo).
Put the symbol by people trying to pull a fast one with a bait-and-switch or outright lie.
Some dwarf offerring bsps-D at 60 doesn't deserve to be singled out cause a couple players reported him (he deserves to sit there with a butt-load of unsold shots).
except maybe something that puts a symbol next to a shop that is over-charging for an item by more than X%.
This isn't scamming.
Selling dss for 18a is not scamming. It's stupid--like buying dss at 18. -snip-
Do me a favor please and actually read what I write before trying to tear me a new one.
I said.. over-charging for an item by more than X% Meaning if someone is selling a 1A item for 3A that is one thing. If someone is selling a 1A item for 3,000,00A that is another thing. I am well aware that most items actually sold in shops are sold far above NPC price (as the cute little alert tells me every day) and I am aware that people raise prices optimistically trying to make an extra buck. That's why I suggested it be done by percent. Also, remember that a symbol by a name is nothing more than a buyer beware. It wouldn't stop a buyer from looking if he/she was aware that the item had a high fetching price.
The scam could be "fixed" by making it so that when you request to purchase
A) more than you can afford to or
B) more than the store has stocked,
the item is not moved.
Of course that means you have to use the all button and/or type in the exact amount if you're buying, which is an inconvenience - I personally don't mind either way, I check what I buy, but I also usually use All over typing in "99999" to buy all items.
Can't think of a system that could be used to police scammers at all, except maybe something that puts a symbol next to a shop that is over-charging for an item by more than X%. (because MOST items sell for more than NPC price anyway) That sounds like more lag in giran to me though. @_@
What about something like a "shop recommendation" system? Kind of like a "seller's rating"? If something like that were in place, the rating would stay with the player and eventually only the trustworthy shops would have the higher ratings. If good/trustworthy business was rewarded in a visible way that would probably go a long way towards minimizing the impact of the scammers and farmers since most players want to support other players.
The game does not protect us from our own mistakes. I like that, it makes us grow and get better. Kind of like the 'real world'.
If I may expand that analogy.....some people in the 'real world' want the government to protect them from their mistakes. For example, don't watch where you are walking and trip, then sue someone with the legal system's help! Don't bother to study hard and get a good job after school, gimmie welfare for life! Teacher give you a bad grade 'cause you didn't study for the test, get Mommy and Daddy to call the Principle!
Sheesh.
A thing I LOVE about L2 is that the smarter you are, the better you do. The more you figure out, the more you thrive.
But I'm off topic here, sorry.
How to deal with scammers like the one who got the OP? When I spot a scammer, when I log off I put my 'town dwarf' next to the scammer with a title like "B0GY=SCAM!!". I try to check every few hours, them move to where the scammer moved to. After a week, send em an email and tell them you will stop if they refund your 11 mil since you are costing them a lot more than 11 mil in lost business. When they relent and pay you your refund, take it, then keep sitting by them with the same title, they deserve it!
Can't think of a system that could be used to police scammers at all,
What about something like a "shop recommendation" system?
I know of a system but that would earn me the wrath of Elrohir who is vehemently against it. It is however simple to implement and very effective. I will put on my flameproof raincoat and dare the warth of the mighty sir once more for the good of the community.
Make it so that when you click on a person you can see the other characters he has on this account. So if famous player X has a Scammer Y alt, everybody will know that player X is a scammer as well and take measures to kill him.
Sure you say, but then he opens another account. However if he uses that account for his buffbots then player X is still marked. If he doesnt use that account then he is paying $15 just for the purpose of scamming and I doubt that many will go that length.
No. That's like saying all blue named people are trustworthy.
I was going for an idea that is somewhat more complex than the rec system.
yeah, but what would stop that guy's "scammer buddies" from giving him multiple "shop recs" until he earned "the trustworthy lvl"?
You could make it so that the shop rec would require different players or different accounts to add a rec. This way someone couldn't spam them or couldn't use alts.
But then it would take a very long time for a player, even a trustworthy player, to earn it.
I hate to say it but the answer lies with us. Read what you buy. You have all the power.
And yes, I did fall for a minor scam once (though I've had all of them tried on me - "I'm your clan member, give me your stuff", "throw your weapon on the ground so I can enchant it" etc.).
I bought 21 "inf ore" which turned out to be lava stones. I was very tired, it was around 2:45 am. After I realized my mistake I had to laugh.
Now I quadruple check everything I buy. I literally read it backwards and forwards. Have saved myself many times.
My earlier proposal (previous page under) makes sure that no scammer gets away with doing his thing without getting his head on the pike.
It would also solve other little things as spies and reds.
yeah, I saw that. I personally don't have a problem with that but I can understand other "more even handed" players disliking it.
Let's say you are a clan leader and sometimes you just want to log in and relax, work on another character, not be bothered by the pressures of leadership. Making an "unknown" alt is the way to go.
However, if you could see every alt then this would obviously not be possible.
But I get it. make the scammers have some sort of acountability.
If you implement one type of fix then you give up certain freedoms.
It's like the secondary market issues. If you didn't have a player controlled economy and instead, implement one that had a lot of ingame controls, then the secondary market would have a more difficult time.
But then you would get all sorts of people screaming about how that is not the way to run an economy, it's not fun, people can't be entrepreneurial and attain economic success.
More freedom allows for more people taking advantage of that freedom.
The system is incredibly easy to bypass by just using a second account (plenty of people have "town dwarf" accounts - so why not also for scamming?). It doesn't have to be a buffbox account - for many people, it can be a free one.
Spies, permareds and scammers are not a "problem" that needs to be solved. It's part of what makes L2 L2, and one of its many tiny redeeming values.
Yes, my system would hinder 'freedom' a little. Including the freedom to scam and grief. For most people not a big thing as their alts are known to their friends in any case. Especialy with the new Academy thing.
To Maline, I do not know a single person who has an account just for shopping. And even then, knowing which shopdwarf is related to the scammer is not a good thing. Said dwarf would lose its customers.
And to not wanting to fix griefers, spies, reds and scammers. I do not want to fix them. I want to get even with them. I want to PvP the 932 who scammed me every time he logs on when he no longer can hide in anonymity. You know as in this is a PVP game where you have to police for yourself. Give us the means to do so and we will.
Except people don't really avoid scammers either, so I seriously doubt that.
You can't PvP the scammer because he acts with you only on the market - it's like an unbuffed archer flagging on a tank, the archer will eventually have to run from being OOM, and the tank can't really catch the archer either.
Except they have no chance to outlevel, outnumber, outgear or outbuff you - so yes, you can already police yourself. Just don't fall for it.
Most people I know have at least some anonymous alts (my clans generally don't know my shopping alt's name, and some fun anonymous projects neither) at least - or claim so.
Having your whole account known means the politics [censored] amplifies threefold, certainly less than cool. It's not really a stopper for griefing, more like an open invitation.
Except people don't really avoid scammers either, so I seriously doubt that.
You can't PvP the scammer because he acts with you only on the market - it's like an unbuffed archer flagging on a tank, the archer will eventually have to run from being OOM, and the tank can't really catch the archer either.
If an archer bothers me, I can always ask an archer/mage friend to hunt him down. OR with the new skills arrest that archer and ask him nicely up close and personal to stop doing that.
I can't do something like that to a scammer as he never leaves the safety of city borders and just use the wh to bring his illgained goods to his main or shopdwarf. this system would allow me to go after the one responsible for the scamming.
Except they have no chance to outlevel, outnumber, outgear or outbuff you - so yes, you can already police yourself. Just don't fall for it.
Explain to me how I police a scammer who never leaves his safe spot? And not falling into a scam is not the same thing as policing. I am sure tha the police don't get robbed much when they are on patrol, it is however their job to take care of those robbing (and giving parking tickets).
Most people I know have at least some anonymous alts (my clans generally don't know my shopping alt's name, and some fun anonymous projects neither) at least - or claim so.
Having your whole account known means the politics [censored] amplifies threefold, certainly less than cool. It's not really a stopper for griefing, more like an open invitation.
And that is the downside to my solution. Though that to is easy to avoid. I can always play on another server or make a 2nd account as well.
Explain to me how I police a scammer who never leaves his safe spot?
!XY is a scammer, be weary.
End of story, problem solved just as thoroughly as a PK could or would.
Playing on another server, you can't twink - you can't actually "raise" an anonymous alt either, you can't let choice friends in on your identity, etc.
Coming to the boards to whine about a mistake you the user made is a desperate cry for help that will not get answered. Have you ever been to a foreign country or met a street pedaller/ merchant? Do you buy their gold?
I don't think its a scam in the L2 sense of the word ( i.e. bannable offense listings), I think its player A ripping off another player. If you bought the soul ore instead of A crystals, its your own fault.
Frankly to even request the gm's police town shops is ridiculous. To give anyone the power to police our own is ridiculous. With every good intention there are 10x the amount of loophole finders who will twist and prod the good things into something evil.
Explain to me how I police a scammer who never leaves his safe spot?
!XY is a scammer, be weary.
End of story, problem solved just as thoroughly as a PK could or would.
Playing on another server, you can't twink - you can't actually "raise" an anonymous alt either, you can't let choice friends in on your identity, etc.
You are easily satisfied if you think that one random shout is worth millions of equipment. Well not for me. You rip me and if I can I will PvP your toon off the server. Clanwars have started over lesser issues.
I want to bring risk back to the scammer. No easy riskless roads for profit anymore to those with the moral vibre of a goblin graverobber.
Yes, my system would hinder 'freedom' a little. Including the freedom to scam and grief. For most people not a big thing as their alts are known to their friends in any case.
I am not a scammer.
I am not a griefer.
I am not a spy.
I don't have a red.
No player knows all of my alts.
I am not a scammer.
I am not a griefer.
I am not a spy.
I don't have a red.
No player knows all of my alts.
I have nothing to hide.
I am against your idea.
I knew you would say a thing like that. Still it would solve the anonymous griefer thing rather well.
You know, in the end none of this matters. You have absolute control of whether or not you press the "ok" button at the end of a sale.
If everyone would be as vigilant then scammers would be hardpressed to make any money. All it takes is one time to really let people know that they have to pay attention.
I'm sorry, but I'm a bit frustrated at the idea that people don't want to take responsibility for their actions. It's like this in the real world too.
We all have choices in our lives. We can say yes or no.
Because in the end, this is just a game. What's going to happen if people fall for a scam by not reading the fine print where they get screwed and legally.
Scamming solved. Just pay attention. The players have the power.
You rip me and if I can I will PvP your toon off the server.
Why should you be able to PvP someone for something they on the market? Those are two entirely different things - you'd probably cross your eyes and wonder "how" if people demanded that PvP be made avengable ont he market somehow, the concept of turning this around is just as laughable.
You know, in the end none of this matters. You have absolute control of whether or not you press the "ok" button at the end of a sale.
If everyone would be as vigilant then scammers would be hardpressed to make any money. All it takes is one time to really let people know that they have to pay attention.
I'm sorry, but I'm a bit frustrated at the idea that people don't want to take responsibility for their actions. It's like this in the real world too.
We all have choices in our lives. We can say yes or no.
Because in the end, this is just a game. What's going to happen if people fall for a scam by not reading the fine print where they get screwed and legally.
Scamming solved. Just pay attention. The players have the power.
As I said, I fell for a scam not long ago. Was my own fault and it was more like sigh, stupid me. Then raah want to kill scammer.
But, I hate it that people can get away with immoral things like scamming scotfree. Its like saying to people who got robbed on the street that it is their own fault because they walked out the door. It is not their fault that they got robbed. It is always the robber who is to blame, Just as it is always the scammer who did the crime. I like to see that NCSoft give us the chance to POLICE ourselves like we are supposed to do in the first place.
You rip me and if I can I will PvP your toon off the server.
Why should you be able to PvP someone for something they on the market? Those are two entirely different things - you'd probably cross your eyes and wonder "how" if people demanded that PvP be made avengable ont he market somehow, the concept of turning this around is just as laughable.
And you wouldnt mind outlawing all the toons on one account just so you could scam?
Hmm.. Let me step in and do some math here..
According to this thread 1 scam can get a person for 10-20MIL. Say you manage to scam an average of 5 people a month. 120M. I am not sure what the current real-world rate of adena is, but if you add that up I bet you it is more than $15 a month.
So yes, I can see how a person would buy an extra account just for this purpose, since buying adena is against the rules but scamming is not.
I second Erlo's vote for not showing alts when you target a person. This is technically a "role playing game" and part of the fun of "role playing" is that sometimes you want to be a character who ISN'T like yourself. Who the heck wants to play a game where all of your toons have to behave the same because you are afraid of ruining one toon's "repuataion?"
theres no way i can really be secret. all of my chars are jillybean. i make a char on franz and boy howdy i get 2-3 pms a day asking "are you jilly from erica?"
And you wouldnt mind outlawing all the toons on one account just so you could scam?
Hmm.. Let me step in and do some math here..
According to this thread 1 scam can get a person for 10-20MIL. Say you manage to scam an average of 5 people a month. 120M. I am not sure what the current real-world rate of adena is, but if you add that up I bet you it is more than $15 a month.
So yes, I can see how a person would buy an extra account just for this purpose, since buying adena is against the rules but scamming is not.
I second Erlo's vote for not showing alts when you target a person. This is technically a "role playing game" and part of the fun of "role playing" is that sometimes you want to be a character who ISN'T like yourself. Who the heck wants to play a game where all of your toons have to behave the same because you are afraid of ruining one toon's "repuataion?"
Have ruined all my toons reputations. :p But really I do agree with you and Elro. Please done show my alts. I still have 1 or 2 that no one knows about.
Hmm.. Let me step in and do some math here..
According to this thread 1 scam can get a person for 10-20MIL. Say you manage to scam an average of 5 people a month. 120M. I am not sure what the current real-world rate of adena is, but if you add that up I bet you it is more than $15 a month.
So yes, I can see how a person would buy an extra account just for this purpose, since buying adena is against the rules but scamming is not.
Now that is a good point. However, you need to have a good scam to make that much money so in this case you would risk blowing $15 bucks on the chance of making adana. Ergo, scamming would no longer be entirely riskfree.
But, I hate it that people can get away with immoral things like scamming scotfree.
They arent scotfree. They have to deal with their conscience and will forever burn in ****ation!
Seriosly though, it's not the scammer's fault you fell for it. Most people have been scammed before. It happens. It sucks, you get really ****** off. Who's fault is it really. And why should you be able to "police" them in town. Someone earlier used a foreigh gold example. If I was walking down teh road, and someone offered to sell me a Rolex from his grungy coat, and I bought it for 5000$. Am I supposed to be able to go to the police because it fell apart and said fisherprice on it after? I think they would laugh at me for it. If I go kick the crap outta the guy cause I bought a fisherprice watch instead of a Rolex, they woudl arrest me. That's how it works.
Darwin had a theory about this...
Since L2 is a free world, people will behave badly. There are good people and there are bad people. SOme thign shave consequences, some dont. I dont scam, never have, but I dont disagree with its existence. To deny the scammers is to deny humanity!
Showing of someone's alts in an account is not a good away since your privacy is not protected this way.
Someone said to set a shop near scammer saying "XDF is a scammer".I only own 1 account.. Doing this would prevent me from exPing or doing something more useful+fun.. Even if i set it and went afk that guy will prolly move to another spot or town.And asking them to give you your money back will just never happen.I never saw that guy who scammed me online again.I pmed him a thousand times.I saw the same scam next day in Giran almost same amount of money.Prolly same guy.I pmed him too and he never answered..
Same thing as the "!asd is a scammer" alert..If I teleport to the town like 2 seconds later i won't see the message,so i won't be alerted..
You say scam is part of the game.Ok it is.So is PK.But you become red and RISK<<<!!! of losing something.. Scammers don't RISK!!! of losing anything at all..If everyone knows your scammer toon you just delete it and create a new one..
Ncsoft has to deal with that. Refund on petition(of course after checking the logs to see if its actually a scam) and deduct the adena from the scammer or another toon in same account.I am not sure about this but i think that when a character gets a ban it stays there but you cannot log in with him right? Then ban the scamming toon so that person has -1 space in his account.. 7 petitions and scammer account is dead..
You say scam is part of the game.Ok it is.So is PK.But you become red and RISK<<<!!! of losing something.. Scammers don't RISK!!! of losing anything at all..If everyone knows your scammer toon you just delete it and create a new one..
The difference between a pk and a scam is that you cannot stop the pk'er from attacking you but you can decide to not click ok.
In my opinion the number of GM's needed to research all the "he scammed me petitions" would be better spent researching possible EULA violators. (not to mention all the possible exploits/griefing this opens up)
Ncsoft has to deal with that. Refund on petition(of course after checking the logs to see if its actually a scam) and deduct the adena from the scammer or another toon in same account.I am not sure about this but i think that when a character gets a ban it stays there but you cannot log in with him right? Then ban the scamming toon so that person has -1 space in his account.. 7 petitions and scammer account is dead..
First of all, they don't ban "toons", they ban accounts. Secondly, scamming is legal so talk of bans is just silly.
The difference between a pk and a scam is that you cannot stop the pk'er from attacking you but you can decide to not click ok.
I almost wrote this exact sentence, word for word! :eek:
Does this mean that we cawn do without the wise Sovrath from now on? :p
But you are right, a pk is not something you can click 'no' on. However, even the most cowardly pk'er killing 20- noobs with his 78 naked archer runs a lot more risk then the scammer will ever take. that my friends remains a thing that should have no place in a true hardcore game, because a true hardcore game would not allow people to cheat the fates that easily.
PKers run no effective risk whatsoever - they can run and log long before anyone arrives to hunt them down, BSoEs make things even safer.
What I meant to say about PvPing someone off the server: You say you would liket o PvP a scammer off the server for something they did to your wallet. Does that mean anyone beaten in PvP should have the chance at getting someone else's money? No.
In short: The two things are fairly unrelated and shouldn't be brought together.
Sorry i didnt know that they ban accounts..And i know that scamming is not illegal.But why don't they change this? Tracking down Eula abusers means -$$(cause they get their **** share of pro farmers im sure) in Ncsoft's pocket..
Tracking down Scammers means happy customers +$$ in Ncsoft's pocket..That's so simple..
Anyway why I even bother..Bottomline -11m for me +11m for scammer..
Case is closed.Thanks again for replies
Tracking down Scammers means happy customers +$$ in Ncsoft's pocket..That's so simple..
False. If you "banned" scamming, it would be another thing that would make L2 less unforgivable.
Besides. What's stopping me from giving all my stuff away to a friend, friend sells it and spends all the money on overenchanting, /gm'ing it, and having it all returned? What about the gray zone cases like someone telling me they want to do an aoe party, stunning me while I do a pull, and picking up the helmet I drop?
The gm's would be flooded with useless cases like that. We don't need gm's to be a stupidity safety net or to babysit us.
PKers run no effective risk whatsoever - they can run and log long before anyone arrives to hunt them down, BSoEs make things even safer.
Someone who has gone on a pkspree must do the sin eater quest over and over to get rid of the pk's. That quest is a pain in the posterior and a waste of time to do.
If he decides to stay red, that means that his charcter is basicly finished. He can never comptete with his brethern of the same level again and a lot of time invested is gone.
That in addititon to the risks of dying and losing gear now and then. I agree however that for some the price is easily paid.
What I meant to say about PvPing someone off the server: You say you would liket o PvP a scammer off the server for something they did to your wallet. Does that mean anyone beaten in PvP should have the chance at getting someone else's money? No.
In short: The two things are fairly unrelated and shouldn't be brought together.
No, he did not do something to my wallet. He did do something against my toon and against a major investment of my time and effort. As this is a PvP game, you should be able to war on someone for any reason. Might as well be a good reason.
XP is easily come by, equipment is a lot harder. So the punishment for stealing in this game is going to be a lot more harsch then for a simple pk.
We don't need gm's to be a stupidity safety net or to babysit us.
I know that, even if I dont like it. However, I would settle for the opportunity to get even to the one who has done this to me.
To OP. I still have 1 AA in my warehouse worth 4.xxx.xxx adena. I keep it as reminder, never fall for bargains when you drink :) . You'll get over it, eventualy :)
However, I would settle for the opportunity to get even to the one who has done this to me.
The best revenge is not being an idiot in the first place.
Amen ;)
There are enough topics here on the boards who have covered several of the most commonly used scamms.
Any advise anyone will give is PAY ATTENTION and NEVER exchange your gear or what so ever just to let someone see the stats or whatever.
NEVER confirm a trade before making sure all is as it should be and you are dealing with the correct person (in other words read the trader's name) and be ware of the scammers who use similar names to those of your closest friends or clanies...That scamm goes around for quite some time.
Carefully READ before buying...Often shops are set up in such way it means exactly the opposite. It never hurts when you look at the shop to let your curser go over the Item and read the actual price it's for.
Take it as a lesson (like many of us have had) and be more carefull next time ;)