This whole thing is bs with the enchants.. Nobody can have that bad of luck as me. I get my sls/sls when I was B grade and ench to +4 and it fails. I tried +4 on a armor..failed.. So now I buy a set of kesh/kesh..I enchant to +4, and guess what? FAIL..so I sell all my crystals.. buy/sell the last few days to make money.. finally can buy kesh/kesh again..and go to +4 and guess what? failed.. What a load of crap. You telling me thats fair? enchants should be by user odds, not server wide. Im flat broke now, and meanwhile some ******* is using his +8 duals while his friend has his +10 duals. Ths is crap..and it ****** me off. Im not asking for the frickin world here..just some +4 for the SA. jesus...
No wonder WOW has 6 bizillion users..its probably a fair game and doesent rip you off.
A bD or Gladi NEED to overchant the weapon... no overchant, no SA.
its one of the worst things in L2... some ppl have 3 SA for one weapon and just need gemstones + a SA crystal.
And dual user need to go the risk of the overchant... overall... it is really not fair.
And its even get more worse with the ne update patch and the SA crystals in the lux shop in teh future...
My 3 attemps to OE weapons promptly stopped from +3 going to +4 like you. Only difference is that I stopped after my 3rd attemp :P Id have to completly agree with you that somehow the "odds" system seems broken.
But think about it, the odds of you blowing 4 times in a row are roughly what..1/81?... thats about the odds of getting something to +15 on the first try..... So yeah , while your failling this much, someone else is thinking if he should ++ again the +15 he just made :P Our luck sux doest it ???
An SA on a weapon is Not Required, and no one is Forcing you to take the chance to add the SA or in your case Up the ++ on them.
Especially when it comes to A/S grades, be thankful that ALL you have to do to get your SA is to try for the +4. Cause otherwise it's good luck getting a Stage 11/12/13 crystal + Gems for anyother weapon.
A bD or Gladi NEED to overchant the weapon... no overchant, no SA.
Need? Or want? I always saw SA's as a luxury. I only got my SA a couple of days ago and have had a clean weapon for 5 months prior to that.
Your SA will net you a bit more damage (I'm assuming you were going for focus or haste), are you really unable to level without it?
Sure... SA is not required... i give you tip.
Play more then some month and then we can talk again ok?
A SA is a BIG different on a weapon, but if you dont see it... ok... your problem then.
And to teh s dual... this dual have 3 SA bonus BECAUSE you cannot choice a SA for a dual... but honestly, the S dual is complete crap for PvE and even for pvp if you using a Bow.
I play this game for 2,5 years now and i can say one thing... a SA change alot.
SAs make a big difference, but they're indeed not required for PvE - as evidenced by the fact that the OP went for dual SLS of all things to try to SA...
If you really think you need them, sit down and make enough money to buy the duals at +4.
no, oe'ing is a risk game. The only thing that sucks is when you have no choice such as A grade and S grade crafting and end with 32 crafts and 28% success rate.
Sure... SA is not required... i give you tip.
Play more then some month and then we can talk again ok?
Jeez, you're right.......I just started Playing Yesterday. All of the toons that I have, have been leveled "of parties running 24x7" so I know absolutely nothing about the game and I'm glad that you are here to Remind me of that, and you are absolutely right in this reguard.
/sarcasm off
I still stand by my post and the requirement on SA's, actually, specially tailored to your post:
Creating a toon: Not Required
Leaving Town: Not Required
Fighting mobs for XP: Not Required
Fighting PvE: Not Required
Fighting PvP: Not Required
Having an active L2 account: Guess what.... Not Required
Special Abilities on a weapon are: Not Required
In the case with teh s dual... well you need to craft 2x 60% weapons and then need to make +4...
I dont know many ppl who success this with the first try... S dual can cost ALOT more then any ohter s grade weapon.
I have lvl 78 SD and still using a +6Tsu*SLS because all ohter weapons are just bad (Dual keshan is still the best one in a grade, but its increase alot the ss cost with tallum heavy).
Ask any caster if they really need acumen... any dagger who need Focus and so on.
They will say you all the same and the most ppl choice the weapon because of the SA and not patk.
PATK is usless if you have a weapon with a bad SA on it.... or do you would put Cheap shot on a Draconic Bow?
I dont think so...
Sure... SA is not required... i give you tip.
Play more then some month and then we can talk again ok?
A SA is a BIG different on a weapon, but if you dont see it... ok... your problem then.
And to teh s dual... this dual have 3 SA bonus BECAUSE you cannot choice a SA for a dual... but honestly, the S dual is complete crap for PvE and even for pvp if you using a Bow.
I play this game for 2,5 years now and i can say one thing... a SA change alot.
Great, another one resorting to insults to get his point across.
Just because I didn't have an SA for 4 months doesn't mean I have been playing for 4 months. I have had my A-grade weapon for 4 months with no SA on it. I've been playing since there were no b-sps, back when I started we didn't even use soulshots up until level 30-40 because it wasn't economically feasable, and you're elling me you can't xp without a little more damage.
I don't ask my party members "Do you have SA on your weapon?" before letting them into my team. I didn't sit on my rear in town until I could afford my SA because levelling was impossible without it.
Obviously the usefulness of SA's are different, but none are "required" to level.
hmm i think A grade is overrated by many people
yes it "gives" you extra damage in pvp but it's not a major amount of damage extra i got my self +8 Dam*Dam on a SE
and the damage compare i used a Tsu*Tsu +11 whas not realy a lot of difrance
oh btw if you realy like to overenchent first you need to get your self few weapons you like to OE like Kes*Kes get around 6 of them then get 24 EWA start to enchent them all to +3 after that go to level 4 few gets destroyed few remends at +4 if you like to get higher keep doing it like this untill you have single weapon left of highest OE second rule in OE never enchent your own weapon thats high already :)
unless you got weapons to blow up :)
1st of all, you need to read and comprehend things "Outside THE Box" and even after my very heavily laiden Sarcasm on the previous post, you still have no idea what I'm trying to say in it. I give up.
2nd of all: "S dual can cost ALOT more then any ohter s grade weapon"
That is a bunch of BS. S duals are by far the cheapest with some of the Other S grade weapons, especially those that have an SA on them as the lvl 13 Crystal alone is worth what at least 150m if you were to Buy the Crystal? Cause uhm you know, not everyone is in a Server dominating Alliance and can go and Farm lvl 11/12/13 crystals, so that leaves many more people to get their lvl 11/12/13 to buy from Farmers and last I checked, their prices ain't cheap.
in all the games i play w/ enchant there is a simple rule.
say you have 2 weapons, you get one to +6 and other breaks going to +6. now, you do not enchant that +6 weapon until you get another to +6 then u enchant both at same speed till one breaks.
I have always though the OEing duals to get the SA was kinda dumb.
Yeah yeah. You don't NEED an SA, You don't NEED armor bonuses, you dont NEED ss or bsps, you don't NEED potions or buffs.
In most cases the SA isn't gonna make or break your PVP/PVE. Itrs just a little boost. So you could say just hold off till you get the money to OE. But the issue here is not the value of the SA, or how esential or non-essential it is. The issue is how fair or unfair it is for dual users to have to risk thier weapon, potentially multiple times for an SA, when everyone else just gets to safely choose their SA, and apply it without worry or unpredictable costs.
Now getting A grade SAs on non-duals is no picnic. The stage 11 and 12 soul crystals along with the A gems can be harsh. But at very least after you craft your weapon your costs will be pretty predictable. You won't have to acumulate backup weapons or cash to replace a failed +4.
60% for one sword craft, 60% for the other, cost to dual them, then 40%ish chance you might have to do it all over. And no guarantee you won't have to do it again after that.
Are the costs equivilent in the long run? Maybe on average, I dunno. But normal weapons get the luxury of never fluxuating in cost. Duals might just be an adena toilet.
And it makes me wonder, why? Would dual users get off too easy if they didn't have to +4. If they had to get soul crystals too, or pay to get an SA in some other way. Do they not deserve the stable (if not inflated) prices we...uh...enjoy?
There are Blessed Enchants that although very expensive, do not blow up the weapon if they fail. They do remove all previous enchants when they fail but better than the weapon going poof :eek:
60% for one sword craft, 60% for the other, cost to dual them, then 40%ish chance you might have to do it all over. And no guarantee you won't have to do it again after that.
YOu are talking of S grade, are you? Becouse you can craft swords for A duals at 100%. Then there is the dualcraft stamp (so far I seen them for 500k-1m) and you can get it for less or free if you are in castle owning ally or got friends there. Then it' 40-50m on EWA (which you can get while grinding at some probability). And finaly if your's wearpon explodes you left with a half of it's cystal walue which is probably around 1/3rd of the wearpon's actual cost.
Now for other A wearpons. First of all parts and recipes which drop/spoil of mobs way higher lvls then your's (low A from mid 70th mobs, high A from high 70-mid 80th). Then 60% craft, and if this goes poof you loose everything, mats, blades, recipe and crafting fee. Then the SA, on my server stage 11 was like 70m before event (and it will go back there after the event) and 120-140 on stage 12. Then the gemstones. You need 140 for best A wearpon, at aa cost of 3-3.5 a each (as it is now at my server) it's 12.6-14.7m, and no you can get it for free from one of your's ally clan leaders.
So it's realy hard to say which SAing method is easier and cheaper.
It is just bad luck. My first 3 attempts to craft Elysian axe failed. About 90 million adena in mats down the drain. Each try probably took 3-4 weeks to get more mats. Finally bought the axe from a farmer. Somewhat humiliating since I am a WS. Still don't have an SA on it. None of the weapon SAs are worth the 120-160 million adena for a level 12 soul crystal.
Why didn't you just sell everything and buy someone's +4. Risk free.
Because +4 kesh*kesh on Erica are going for 300 million.
My kesh*kesh clean were 110 and 115 respectivley.
EWA are going for around 13-15mil each. 13*4=52mil, plus 110=162 mil, half the cost of buying someone elses +4.
Besides, I like to think I did things on my own instead of just buying everything. And yes, there are risks, but mainly I was just upset when I posted that, as I posted right after it happened. And for the other posters on here saying buy 4 or 5 sets of duals..and 20 EWA's, holycrap....where do you get the money for that? Thats a pipe dream for most people. But yea, I could see how it would work. My main gripe, and OP was the fact that the odds are server wide, not user specific. I guess thats why some of us have +8 and some like myself get bent over.
Ya i cant say ive been very lucky, but out of the 2 yrs + ive be playing i think u can count on one hand the number of OE's i tried...
I just recently OE a SOM to +4 then sold it n made 75mil profit, then 3 days later i try on another toon the same thing and lost 100mil, so for me, i should stop while im ahead :P
As for duals, i OE 2 and failled 1, but i know some ppl might use OE as a money maker, i dont think im guna fall into that category...
And yes, usually, i buy the +4 or above OE weapons instead of trying it myself...
But i dont have that much money to go very high anyways.....
As for amor 60% recs, does are also very unlucky for me, most of the time. I remember one time geting mats rdy for 2 doom plates 60% assuming that if i fail 1 of them, the other as a good chance of going thru... Man was i wrong, failled on second atempt as well, ended up buying the damm armor :(...
OA weapons are only 'special' because they are rare. If everyone had them, they would be like base weapons, not special.
They are rare because of the various risks discussed above. They are a great part of the game, I like the system, well done NCSoft.
PS Back in the 'old days' (pre C2) not only was there no SAs. but enchants were so rare that a +6 D grade might be discussed server wide. You got less exp per mob than you do now, using a gk or shots was a real extravagence...yet we managed to level.
So yes, you do NOT need a SA, you do NOT need OE, you CAN level without shots, pots and so forth. Yes, it is slower...but what the heck is the rush anyway?!?! Enjoy the game, don't get your shorts in a wad trying to get to 75 asap.
I finally accumulated the funds to try some OEs on some SOMs. I've been wanting a +6 SOM for a long time now. My first attempt blew going +5. 2nd and 3rd attempts both blew going +4. After crying on my wife's shoulder for a while (I didn't, but felt like it) I brushed myself off, equipped my BOMT and continued the grind. It'll be a while before I can try that again.
I finally accumulated the funds to try some OEs on some SOMs. I've been wanting a +6 SOM for a long time now. My first attempt blew going +5. 2nd and 3rd attempts both blew going +4. After crying on my wife's shoulder for a while (I didn't, but felt like it) I brushed myself off, equipped my BOMT and continued the grind. It'll be a while before I can try that again.
You just talked me out of going +5 SOM! :eek:
I agree with Rum Punch. Back in the "ol' days" we didn't have SA's, noob buffs, blessed shots, greater haste or healing potions and a number of things. And we managed. Things are easier now. I say just relax and enjoy it. Work for what you want and take it in stride.
I have always though the OEing duals to get the SA was kinda dumb.
Yeah yeah. You don't NEED an SA, You don't NEED armor bonuses, you dont NEED ss or bsps, you don't NEED potions or buffs.
In most cases the SA isn't gonna make or break your PVP/PVE. Itrs just a little boost. So you could say just hold off till you get the money to OE. But the issue here is not the value of the SA, or how esential or non-essential it is. The issue is how fair or unfair it is for dual users to have to risk thier weapon, potentially multiple times for an SA, when everyone else just gets to safely choose their SA, and apply it without worry or unpredictable costs.
Now getting A grade SAs on non-duals is no picnic. The stage 11 and 12 soul crystals along with the A gems can be harsh. But at very least after you craft your weapon your costs will be pretty predictable. You won't have to acumulate backup weapons or cash to replace a failed +4.
60% for one sword craft, 60% for the other, cost to dual them, then 40%ish chance you might have to do it all over. And no guarantee you won't have to do it again after that.
Are the costs equivilent in the long run? Maybe on average, I dunno. But normal weapons get the luxury of never fluxuating in cost. Duals might just be an adena toilet.
And it makes me wonder, why? Would dual users get off too easy if they didn't have to +4. If they had to get soul crystals too, or pay to get an SA in some other way. Do they not deserve the stable (if not inflated) prices we...uh...enjoy?
(going with the general statement of your post, not at you)
Top C duals = 2 mid c swords
Top B duals = 2 top C swords (100% recipes available)
Top A duals = 2 top B swords (100% recipes available)
S Duals = 2 60% crafts
So the 1st time it gets rough for a bladedancer to exp is 76+. Other than that its the same difficulty as everyone else. You pay the price for enchants in town, just like people buy soul crystals in town. Those guys with top c at 40 can't hunt their own soul crystal lvl 8 for their sa's.
SA's are a luxury, not essential. I like the diverse system to enhancing the different weapons.
To the OP, yes your luck sucks and I sympathize with busting your weapons trying to enhance your own gaming fun. Nothing like kicking a man when he's down with repeated failures. Calling it unfair is wrong though, all classes have their high points and low points for gear.
Yes, duals are much cheaper than other weapons of top grade in their categories. I think the whole point was duals are cheaper so you have to +4 them its only fair. Now with S grade duals like infinity wing which doesnt even dual with another sword and requires blades like everything else it isnt very fair to force us to risk blowing them up.
Duals that cant be made like other duals should not require +4'ing.
Anyway, I am 10/40 in my A grade crafting but yesterday I took 3 pair of b grade duals from 0 to +8, who knows how this all works.