TK vs SWS

Which way should i take my alt Plz help out with this

no one of this two.
If you will stay in PVP take an SK.
They have better skills to alive and are ....cking strong

SwS because of the buffs. goood for parties etc..

SwS > Tanks ... if you don't mind only being the button that got pushed to make an archer crit.

Of course, SwS have to actually be careful about which resist songs and such to do in PvP, so I guess it's not as simple as all that.

go TK. eventually theres gonna be a buff for u so id get rdy and lvl up a TK.

As stated in your other topic, SWS, more viable class then the TK-tank that will never be a real tank.

more viable class then the TK-tank that will never be a real tank.

Did ya just call a TK a tank that would never be a tank, or did I miss read that? 0.o You gotta come to hinde and i'll show ya what a TK can do!

A question like this has nothing to do with which class is better... its got to do with what you want to do with your class. Do you want to tank? Do you want to tank in rift groups? Do you want to tank RBs? Do you want to get groups in places that need a tank? If so... go a TK.
If you like the idea of getting a wider range of groups, and frequently not being the tank in those groups... then go a SwS. A sws can tank for some groups, but will never ever be as good at it as a TK can be at tanking.

Coming from an sws on hinde..

I LOVE MY SWS! lol

very fun char to play.. challenging/exciting and all of the above.

Every few lvl's its like a birthday... new songs ftw hehe

As it stands? Sws.
better solo, very wanted in groups, you can still tank to some degree but also serve as a buffer/damage dealer.

Also, you are the fastest self-buffed moving thing in the game with the highest self-buffed crit rate as well.

TKs for now are second rate at everything.
(this has got to change soon... but its been a long wait.)

more viable class then the TK-tank that will never be a real tank.

Did ya just call a TK a tank that would never be a tank, or did I miss read that? 0.o You gotta come to hinde and i'll show ya what a TK can do!

A question like this has nothing to do with which class is better... its got to do with what you want to do with your class. Do you want to tank? Do you want to tank in rift groups? Do you want to tank RBs? Do you want to get groups in places that need a tank? If so... go a TK.
If you like the idea of getting a wider range of groups, and frequently not being the tank in those groups... then go a SwS. A sws can tank for some groups, but will never ever be as good at it as a TK can be at tanking.



I know a pretty good TK on Sieg too, sorry but the p def a TK has doesn't make him a tank...healers have to focus on him/her way too much to be viable.

I know a pretty good TK on Sieg too, sorry but the p def a TK has doesn't make him a tank...healers have to focus on him/her way too much to be viable.

TKs, SKs, Pallys and DAs have the same armor masteries.. the only difference is that human tanks get majesty.. which is a great skill and all, but doesnt add so much pdef that the difference in healing would be amazingly different.
TKs can achieve the highest pdef out of all the tanks (along with SKs) thanks to gaurd stance.. which sadly drains a lot of mp, making it useful for emergencys and pvp. If you have a TK you cant leave alone for a few seconds without a heal, then hes done sometime really wrong... like hes not wearing a shield, or hes got -8 con tatts and using an anger SA, or he thinks LA would look cooler. I use a +5/+6 doom set on my 63 TK, and especially with EE shield buffs, its amazing how much damage I can absorb. Never had a healer complain once about the amount of healing I was requiring. The last set of raids I went on (varka silenos bosses) were tanked by a 73 TK.

TKs do not have any problems in the defence department. TKs problems are that they are supposed to be more defensive than any other tank due to their complete lack of attack skills (got tribunal tho... :) ). And they're not... they have the same defensive skills as an SK, along with a pallys dark resist toggle.... TKs need more unique skills to stand out more. One day we'll get them :)

Orvieta is an SE I believe ... so the thing she thinks is a problem with PDef is likely actually a problem with PAtk.

Orvieta is an SE I believe ... so the thing she thinks is a problem with PDef is likely actually a problem with PAtk.

Well after buffs, it's my job to watch the red and blue bars...as well as do some crowd control.

If I see a TK tanking (only have experience with 2 different TK's though) most of the time I have to focus my attention on him or her, instead of on the entire group. Was during my 50's in GC though.

TK was in Zubei Heavy with an SLS/Focus...so no issue about bad gear for a tank. Ok Doom is better, but not everyone can afford that.

All the elf tanks take a lot of concentration from healers. Heals need to be earlier, and they need to recharge them from time to time. Human tanks can hold majesty up forever...so in a 3 hr period, the average pdef on the human tanks ends up much higher. The evasion draw on majesty is irrelevant when you include the fact that everyone is wearing a shield anyways. A 100 evasion and 115 evasion on 7x and 8x mobs is not terribly different. The large hp reserve tanking DOES matter in the VR world. We pull 5 mobs and I can afford to drop 2-4k hp without getting a heal. I can VR the hp back during the next single or double pull and we are rolling just fine. A paladin can even dump in self heals while shield spamming and aoe rooting because mana costs on all of the above have gotten better and better. It costs less mana to stun than it does to hate. It costs less mana to aoe root than it does to hate aura. Those are huge features for C5 that have absolutely stepped the Paladin up out of the tanking range of other tanks for general parties. Shield buffs have made it so everyone has absurd defense rates. EE buffs mean you just don't fail to block...ever. And the aegis loss for a Paladin is so low that it is indestinguishable.

The TK will be picking up that 3rd cubic come next update, and they are in bigtime need of it. It is a tank class that has entirely lost its niche.

It's not hte zubei that's the problem (Zubei's PDef isn't far behind doom - only the shield block rate is), it's the SLS with focus.

SEs don't usually really have to heal thanks to VR, so they notice a low PAtk class like an elf with an undergraded weapon really severely.

It's not hte zubei that's the problem (Zubei's PDef isn't far behind doom - only the shield block rate is), it's the SLS with focus.

SEs don't usually really have to heal thanks to VR, so they notice a low PAtk class like an elf with an undergraded weapon really severely.

Well it's a bit normal that a Dark Elf SE notices a Light Elf class rather fast :p /RPG

Well I dunno, seems I still have to encounter the TK that will take away my doubts about this class. For now, I take a DA-PA-SK as tank before a TK all the time.

With good reason, for most tanking purposes in a proper party, there is absolutely no need for anything but an SK. Take the best patk you can find, hell have a Gladiator tank. Unless they change things, there are very few places at 64 where you NEED a tank in a good party.

Once again, that's because you're an SE - conversely, a TK would probably prefer an EE over you also.

TKs are, however, indeed sorta gimpy as standard PvE tanks. They don't hold aggro so well (low STR), and they can't keep their own HP up so well (low STR). Their PDef and runspeed are good, of course, when there are larger pulls - I'd personally want a TK to tank for me, but that's only because of the AoE thing. ;)

Why? The paladin can root the entire AOE and step away from it. It's like an overlord/human tank in one.

Your mass-root and Maline's mass-nuke cover different amounts of targets.

We pull 5 mobs and I can afford to drop 2-4k hp without getting a heal.

When I pull 5+ mobs, I turn on GS if I think Im gonna loose 2k+ HP.... which seriously reduces the HP lost.
With a bishop in group, % heals are great on a pally with a lot of HP.... Ill admit. I would consider -str +con tatts on my TK if I had totally given up on duos and small groups. But for all other heals, a TK isnt going to require more heals than any other tank. Sure pallys have higher pdef over time... but having higer pdef during larger pulls, and lower pdef when taking on smaller groups of mobs isnt that much worse. TKs and SKs might require a heal a little earlier than a higher HP tank.... but they wont require more heals (unless you have a bishop who is using % heal a lot). As for keeping aggro.... in large groups I dont find it a problem. I did when I had an AoBA... but since Ive started using a sword, its really not a problem.

For some reason.. all tank related threads end up with a comparison of elven and human tanks..... Im not trying to say TKs are better than other tanks... I think they need work. But they're perfectly able to tank in all the places a pally can. For some situations, due to pallys and DAs high HP, a TK might require healing slightly earlier.. or require an extra heal when things get tough. But they are in no ways bad at tanking. I would take a good TK who knows how to tank anyday over a pally who doesnt.

So... back to the topic... if you want to play a tank, and enjoy tanking.. dont let the reputation of TKs being gimp stop you from playing the class. People will party you when they see you tank if your good at it. When I play my healer/SpS, I know who I want tanking for me. Top of my list of "players I want in rift groups" are interestingly enough TKs and SKs - not because of their classes, but because of how they play their classes.

With good reason, for most tanking purposes in a proper party, there is absolutely no need for anything but an SK. Take the best patk you can find, hell have a Gladiator tank. Unless they change things, there are very few places at 64 where you NEED a tank in a good party.

True, even in the early parts of Lair, Toi 5-7 where we normally hunt, a tank is nice, but no criterium to go or call it off. :)

I dont know about high 60's yet though.

Uhm Luke the dude isnt asking about Paladins/SK/ or DA, his just asking about either to choose between TK or SwS (so stick to the thread topic).

Anyways, as what Hutch says (100% agree with her). If u like tanking like i do, then go for it bro. TKs are good tanks believe me on that, i can get in raids and parties quite easily or i end up starting one up. So people say playing a TK means u cant get any party then they messing with ur head.

If u like to be a party buffer and just tag along supporting with dd'ing then SwS is best for you, and you can get into parties really quick.

If you play a tank, dont rely on looking for parties, if you cant find anyone looking for a tank, then start your own party up. If that isnt a success then you can solo in some places. There are places where u can solo with ur self buffs easy + ur cubics ;)

Good luck on the choice u make

EDIT: TKs are getting a massive boost come next update so you better get yourself ready ;)

Krissa is correct - I would rather get a third summoner than a tank for the amount of targets you can root, Luke. ;) Actually, a SwS is an excellent puller too - but it takes a lot of coordination from the ESs (they need to nuke virtually at the same time to hit everything so that the SwS doesn't get hit).

godson speaks true words about parties though - try looking for members, not for parties, if the latter is in short supply. :D

</hijack>

EDIT: TKs are getting a massive boost come next update so you better get yourself ready ;)

/bender voice/ what's this here ???
67 TK =)

We pull 5 mobs and I can afford to drop 2-4k hp without getting a heal.

When I pull 5+ mobs, I turn on GS if I think Im gonna loose 2k+ HP.... which seriously reduces the HP lost.
With a bishop in group, % heals are great on a pally with a lot of HP.... Ill admit. I would consider -str +con tatts on my TK if I had totally given up on duos and small groups. But for all other heals, a TK isnt going to require more heals than any other tank. Sure pallys have higher pdef over time... but having higer pdef during larger pulls, and lower pdef when taking on smaller groups of mobs isnt that much worse. TKs and SKs might require a heal a little earlier than a higher HP tank.... but they wont require more heals (unless you have a bishop who is using % heal a lot). As for keeping aggro.... in large groups I dont find it a problem. I did when I had an AoBA... but since Ive started using a sword, its really not a problem.

For some reason.. all tank related threads end up with a comparison of elven and human tanks..... Im not trying to say TKs are better than other tanks... I think they need work. But they're perfectly able to tank in all the places a pally can. For some situations, due to pallys and DAs high HP, a TK might require healing slightly earlier.. or require an extra heal when things get tough. But they are in no ways bad at tanking. I would take a good TK who knows how to tank anyday over a pally who doesnt.

So... back to the topic... if you want to play a tank, and enjoy tanking.. dont let the reputation of TKs being gimp stop you from playing the class. People will party you when they see you tank if your good at it. When I play my healer/SpS, I know who I want tanking for me. Top of my list of "players I want in rift groups" are interestingly enough TKs and SKs - not because of their classes, but because of how they play their classes.



We're talking about being 50 pdef short when you're in GS vs a human tank in majesty.

And I can root 15 targets with ease...and the skill has hate effect. For overpulling it's perfect and for AOE it's even better. The Paladin has returned aoe parties to splendor. Pull, aoe root the first 15. Then nuke the second 15 after the paladin pulls the groups apart. The root wears off, Paladin still has hate (at a cost of 70 mana) and rip em apart again.

As for the rest of the thread, a SWS can have a TK's pdef with ease. He just can't have a TK's pdef if the TK is in party with a SWS. But have no doubts that the SWS is a very capable tank in high level regions. It's high crit rate helps it hold aggro as well. No real hate means the parties dd's have to be smart and wait for him to hit first, but in no way does it prevent the SWS from being a capable tank/buffer which brings far more to a party in almost every situation. The SWS is one of the most powerful underplayed classes in L2.

Push comes to shove. There is no need for any tank in most L2 regions up until the TI boss rooms or mass pulling/aggro locations. But short the dd party and with reduced crowd control of mages, they can be excellent additions to an underpowered party. However, in most of these scenarios, a SWS would be a far better addition than a tank could ever be. If you have to reasonably debate SWS/TK for pvp and general parties, then you aren't reading the skill list. The SWS is the superior class hands down.