First, as a new player, I would like to say hello to the community. I hope to party/slay all of you at some point.. :)
After looking over all of the races and classes, I decided that a dwarf would be a logical choice for my first character. I chose dwarf for(i'm assuming) the only reason anyone chooses dwarf, to make money. This is because I refuse to buy adena(or anything for that matter) outside of the game. I find the concept to be flawed, and steers the focus away from the game towards creating a new currency.
After looking over the boards, specifically the threads by dwarves crying foul that they have no ability to stand out or profit from their racial/class "edge", I'm beginning to have second thoughts. I have read in multiple locations that dwarves are boring, and that their mercantile bonuses are lacking in comparison to their combat proficiency.
That being said, I still want to make a dwarf. I would like to have this character be my main, but if a dwarf's role pans out to be merely a support character for my others I suppose I can accept that for now until things are balanced. I am aware that a dwarf character has value, and starting as one seems a good jump-off toward financing more "interesting" characters.
So, should I bother making a dwarf for this reason, or should I just rely on the economy of botter dwarves supplying the populace with needed goods?
Would I get more enjoyment out of a MAIN character that is a scavenger or an artisan? I am drawn to the concept of the artisan, and I assume they add more to a clan than a scavenger. I know people will say just play what you have fun with, and I agree...my thought is that while I am new to the game and don't know what I am missing, if dwarves really are boring, it will be an upgrade in my mind's eye rather than the grinding of the dwarf being a hassle. If they are wrong, I will find out and keep it quiet so I can stand as a proud player in a sea of bots.
:eek:Am I masochistic, insane, misinformed, or on the path to greatness? All of the above? :p
:) Please flame in a coherent manner, and try to make it humorous. :)
Also, looking for a clan on Hindemith, character name is Aethir. Let's get together and see if I would be a good fit for your clan. :)
Hmm Dwarf as your first toon. I did the same. But that dwarf is long gone now. Anyway. I like playing dwarves but I have never been good at leveling them. Scavenger in my opinion is easier that atrisan. When I started looking at what I needed to craft stuff it scared me a bit. But theres some **** good crafters out there that know there stuff to. The one major thing I like about playing a dwarf is you can talk alot of nonsense and make jokes and people just think "AWWWW how cute did you see what the dwarf just said!" lol playing a dwarf is also an attitude. Have fun with it. Im in a good clan on Hindemith. I will pm you sometime tonight and talk to you about that if you would like! Welcome to the game!
Any character can make money, because there are tons of dwarves around that will gladly let you partake of their services for a small fee. The majority of the money I've made hasn't come from my dwarf skills, but rather my ability to play the market.
With that in mind, I'd recommend that you play the class that has the most appeal to you.
Keep in mind that it's going to be a long time before you get into your "prime" and plan for that. Trust me, you don't want to get into your mid 60's and then decide that it's not the class for you.
dwarf as a first char might seem as a good idea to make money, but it aint lemme explain why:
Their skills, crafting and spoiling are useless till high lvles (spoil till ya can spoil a bones/varnish alot) and craft till 60+ orso
ALL of the dwarf skills got nerfed to pretty much nothing by the automated ones farming everything 24/7, the manor system for scaffies (the manor system if played right can give ALOT more materials solo as a scavenger could ever dream to get solo even if he is manoring too)
For crafters it is pretty much the same problem, since the introduction of mammon, and certain annomynaus 24/7 crafters that got everything completed/cheaper craft shops up as they can ever pull of cause they cant make their money back/craft shops on their own cause it took away the one thing a good Arti/WS thrived on trust of the people.
I suggest to make a dagger and manor till ya got enough for a ng/d set for ur dwarf, if ya still wanna go dwarf at that time
You are not making a mistake if you choose a dwarf to make money. With the manor coming to the Dwarflands (Elmore) in C5, you can now spoil and manor at the same time, from level 10 on. You should be able to amass a lot of base materials (Iron, Varnish, Coal, and such) which sell for a lot in Dion and Giran. You may have to travel to those cities to actually get the money from the sales, but it isnt as hard as it looks. (Be sure you visited the Newbie Guide and got your 'Beginner Tokens' which allow cheap travel between starter towns up to level 20.)
To get to Dion to sell, use the token to get to Elven Village (or Dark Elven Village) use the Gatekeeper or run to the Neutral Zone, use Scroll of Escape. This will put you in Gludio. Exit Gludio to the east, and go down the cliff and across the river (use the ledges on the cliff to minimize falling damage.) Use Scroll of Escape when you are on the east side of the river and /loc gives you 'near Dion.'
You should be able to sell your mats in Dion, but if you need to go to Giran, it is long run. There is a one-time quest in Dwarven Village that will get you to Giran (you need to talk to Ghilladucci to get back for free.)
From either town, I believe you can use your Beginner Tokens to go directly to Dwarven Village (I haven't used the tokens myself, as they didn't exist when I started.)
Be sure to look into the Manor system if you are infact looking to make money or at crafting certain items....
I currently have 14,000 Varnish and about 9,500 animal bones. 97% from the manor
My main is a level 76 maestro (warsmith). As far as making money from craft skills, it is very difficult. Everybody can bot up a warsmith. The highest level crafters on Erica were botted, used botted healer/buffers, or were bought from famers. Many players with warsmiths as mains quit the game, and gave their accounts to friends. The point is that to sell your craft skills, you will need to work hard, and compete with players who have not earned the right to play crafters.
Right now, very few players craft. The crafting is done by farmer warsmiths, who assume all the risk. Players then use adena purchased from the farmers to buy the equipment the farmers sell.
I am in a clan with many 70+ players. Over the past year very few of these players have come to me to craft. Crafting to get equipment is not even considered as an option.
Dwarfs are good toons to play with. You'll have to understand the mannor system and also be wise when trading and selling. I can see you've been doing some readings on this forums, but it is very difficult to start out a character without weapons and armor etc. You'll be able to make money however that is later in the game. It is frustrating at first, but once you get the hang of it, it'll clear up. I hope you enjoy playing l2~. Try to make friends, join a clan, use their acadamy and see where you go from there. A lot of clan members are high lvls and probably have no grade weapons and armors that they can let u borrow. Good luck in your quest and welcome to L2.
Dwarf scavy & WS as a alt is a very good idea.
Your first main should be a class you'd injoy playing...My clan on kain says the same thing, and is in the best interrest of the newbie player to start a "dagger" as your first charater.
Then after you learned the machanics of the game that you could reroll another toon...a dwarf is nice if you have money that you can pump into for you to use to farm mats and mannor with in small parties.
WS's are great cause alot of players use them for their own soul shot crafting and for their own buy sell shops.(they natually can sell more items or buy more then other players)
Dwarven fighters are the most tedious & obnotious fighters to lvl with. they have 1 skill "stun" and a few pole skills(20+). every one takes dwarfs in heavy to lvl, even tho they could use light. heavy is the most costly armor type to.
It is well known that Nukers and archers make way more money per-hour at high lvls verious Dwarfs.
Last night I farmed about 500k in adena drops(which isn't too bad) and from the SB's I've sold I've made 7m currently...I farmed for about 7 hours, and I still got more books to sell.(I had a 60+ PP and 75 SE 'healing & recharging' with me)
Dwarfs can spoil up some nice things, I'd love to take them with me...I just wish they could keep up with my kill rate. :p
Best character to make adena early on and not really hurt from adena while leveling up is a nuker. Dark Elven Wizard or Human Wizard work best. You can hunt in Devotion armor until your 40's. (Not even top NG). As far as jewels, you should be hunting mobs that you can kill before they ever could get a spell or hit on you. As for weapon... keep upgrading to the top grades. Go top ng to top giran shop D grade in 1 leap. Always use BSPS. You'll kill so much faster than a dwarf that you will earn more materials than they will in a shorter time, but not per level. A dwarf is far more efficient if you can deck them out in the top gear as soon as you reach the grade. They need good armor, good weapon and good jewels to keep leveling.
For example I was able to exp on a lvl 5x SH with top NG with devotion on C3 PTS (exp rates 5x money rates). Eventually upgrading to top d and then top lux shop. With the M.Atk values the way they are, the most important thing for damage output is levels. Leveling up your nukes is a linear damage increase, while M.Atk bonus from weapons are square rooted.
So in conclusion if I were to start on a server with no adena, I'd go nuker then archer next. You can't manor too well on ranged characters though. So if you really want melee, go dagger.
I lvl'ed my character making money most of the time. Of course there werent' blessed shots when I started but I always made a profit from every kill. I do the same now. I also made a dwarf and sold D grade shots to make some money. It's "ok". It definitely helps at lower lvls. But eventually you just learn the market, look for deals, buy them and resell at higher rate.
Or, as someone else said, make a dagger and use the manor system.
So unless you LOVE crafting and LOVE gathering materials, don't have a dwarf be your first. Becuase you will just get dissapointed. They are VERY hard to lvl. I take mine out occassionally to level and to get "sweet nectars" for fishing shots (don't worry.. you'll find out about that later). I started the Dwarf at the start of C1. The dwarf is now 31 about to be 32. That's how much fun they are to level.
So, I would make a primary character you like (especially if you want to pvp or be helpful to a party) and a dwarf to make some additional money if you are so inclined.
Everyone said it better--dwarves ARE hard (slow) to level.
They are an intermediate melee at low levels (up to 30).
Worse than all melees except human fighter (who is the pond scum of melees).
What they ARE is sturdy. High hit points, moderate strength (3rd highest after orc and dark elf), slow speed. Sturdy.
All that being said, a dwarf around 30 with a glaive (if you can afford one--mine was borrowed at the time) in a duo or trio in a cata is a blast!!!
If you like whacking things with sword consider a DE fighter. If you just like crushing things and don't mind the 10 minutes it takes to run between mobs try an orc.
If you wanna level fast--you heard it from others--dagger.
All the fighters are similar 1-20. At those levels, which go pretty quickly, the race makes the most difference.
After class change special attacks and class start to make a difference in play-style all the way up to the top level.
Remember though, you get best benefits for the FIRST toon you level very far. Choose that one wisely for the advantage it offers.
I would also recommend after that decision that you take a break now and again and try some other low toons on your account. Play around with different races and classes when you need a break from leveling your main. If you really find you like one of the others, you can always make that your main at any time.
If you just like crushing things and don't mind the 10 minutes it takes to run between mobs try an orc
Uhm, the beauty of an Orc Raider is when you get him enough SoulShots, HP pots and a Polearm weapon, you don't really need to leave the Catacombs room till you're all out of either: HP Pots or SoulShots. Pre-20 though, there are still plenty of spots in the Orcish Village that needs minimal running.
Orc Raiders/Destroyers are a Blast to play imo. Too bad I rolled my Raider on a Server I won't ever go back.
i started a 2nd character..artisan and I can say it does HELP you get rich. Like Duke says, playing the market is the best way. But if you have patience to craft using the dwarf, it will help you out alot. Why craft 4000 coarse bone powder for 25-50a a click compared to free. And if you dont know what to sell, set up a craft shop. But if you want to charge others to craft a weapon for 500k or so...you have to GET/BUY it first :P
Butttt, all a scavenger has to do is just get that right spoil and bam! money time.
Why craft 4000 coarse bone powder for 25-50a a click compared to free.
why craft period when your dwarven friend could do it for you... just hand them the mats and recharge (if you got a EE or SE).
Or just find a player that has a low cost set: I always craft my Bss for 90 adena, cause I know of one dwarf that sets it for that cost when all others are 100-300a per click.
If you want to make a dwarf as a main i will disagree with everyone that is saying its a bad idea, its really not, its boring? its really not. Then again i loved my dwarf from the very first moment i read about him before creating so i could be biased, hehe. IF you are honestly drawn to making an arti (i was too, and i today dont regret it one moment), i suggest doing so but with the knowledge that an arti is one hell of a challenge raising, especially if you have to do it alone. Almost as big of a challenge as raising a supportclass healer/buffer i dare say. And you will have to do it alone unless you find yourself a good clan to help you or make a group of solid friends. Noone wants an arti in party unless they know the arti as friends do. But i can tell you one thing, strapping on a pole-arm instead of a blunt weapon find a healer to duo with i have never ever been bored with my dwarf :) and dwarf or not poleing is always wanted by healers so that wont be as difficult in finding a party even if you're an arti. However if you want to make money as a dwarf i suggest going Scavvy instead of arti, even though none of them are great moneymakers a Scavvy has a better chance of standing tall, an arti only ever makes money from their supposed moneymaking crafting skills at higher lvls 55+ and even then its not a whole lot :p weapons costs millions, recs for the costs millions... all we can ever hope to get out of that is a measily 100k per craft.. if you're lucky, most people have dwarf friends that do it stead for 1a
the reason i disagree with people that say making a dwarf main is a bad idea is because making a dwarf gives you an idea on how hard this game can be so that you will, incase the day comes when you decide to sub/reroll, be more appreciative on how much easier a true fighterclass and Damage Dealing class (nukers for examply.. granted though, nukers shots are expensive :p ) is to level up and you get an insight for the arti and scavvy that people that never even touched the class doesnt have and you can laugh in their face when they say we exaggerate how difficult it is to raise a dwarf properly :p lol
Even making a dwarf as an alt char to support moneymaking while you play the market is not the same as a main as then you are most likely already established in the community and already have friends/clans around that can help you. Also you already have knowledge of where to go and gear to outfit him with etc. Making a scavvy or arti as alt will never be the same as making them as mains and taking the consequenses of that decision (i'm prolly gonna get flamed alot for this, especially from those who have dorf alts and think they know what its all about :p )
I made an alt char (human warrior/gladdie to be) and he's using duals and yet only 29 but i'm already shocked with the ammount of damage he can do, he solo's in places where my dorf would have gotten his *** handed to him (fully buffed) at the same lvl and completely unbuffed with only an alacraty pot(increases attack speed slightly) and the occasion HP pot to aid so all you fighters and nukers out there saying dwarves really arent that hard to level even though you never touched 'em you have not even the slightest clue, lol
as for slaying us eventually....... pick another race ;) :D
I also play on Hindemith so if you see either my WS around 'kamikitten' or my gladdie to be 'darthkamikitten' feel free to toss me a pm :) same if you have any questions.. just toss me a pm :)
ironic, my main is a glad and my alt are dwarves :P Too bad I couldn't get em high enough to use big boom before C4 :(
But I do like to AOE with the dwarves though. I can solo some rift rooms with the right buffs. But sometimes I kinda wished that I made a dwarf as my main cause it always seem like im a step behind the other dwarves. "ok lvl 55, i can register Top B, wait...people now need A grade" When I can register A grade...S grade will most likely be in demand.
Well i had a PR as a main but i decided to take a break from him and im currently lvling a Scavy hes lvl 20 and i absolutley love poleling on him. I just like being a dwarf and i like how they feel. I like my dwarf so much i might even make him my main.
Well i had a PR as a main but i decided to take a break from him and im currently lvling a Scavy hes lvl 20 and i absolutley love poleling on him. I just like being a dwarf and i like how they feel. I like my dwarf so much i might even make him my main.
I don't want to pee on your parade, but that happy Dwarf feeling goes away rather quick when you hit your 40's or worse yet, 50's. That's why only few and the most dedicated Dwarfs make it past 50's or 60's. I didn't. I got my 1st dwarf BH to nearly B grade, then gave up. Let about 5-6 months go by, then decided to try again, so rolled me an Artisan and quit playing it after 32.
Having 2 mid 60ies dwarves I'll tell you my feelings.
I couldn't play just on the BH. His playstyle is too much straightforward. You spoil. Period.
However I'd have a harder time on my WS without him but that's not a surprise.
My WS is really the versatile little guy that you can enjoy for a long time.
He's even higher than my main atm...
HE can pole, big boom, use toys in sieges and, whatever people say, he has an edge on the economic side.
WHy ? I don't rely on anyone for any mat craft, I stockpile a lot and sometimes monopoly a mat in Giran.
Quite fun to have his huge inventory wieght size and buy all the *** in giran for profit.
Quite helpfull too to be able to craft ss on demand while hunting. No refill needed.
Having more sale slots is fun too. And collecting recipes is a hobby. I also collect armor sets. I have about 12 now.
While all of this could be made using crafts shops, it'd also be unreliable, more expensive and overall more difficult.
I also admit that having a 65 SE is a kind of huge help.
It also is easier to make friends when you're a dwarf as you're not seen as threatening.
But trust me. A +6 elysian and blunt skills can help you in pvp situations. You can carry more pots than they do. And you can make them.
I've came back to my SR lately and am enjoying it but I'd probably have quit if not for the lil gimped dorves.
The only thing I'd add is if I'm still there it's definitely not NC's fault.
They really need to get their thoughts together and even the field in pvp for dwarves.
As said in the recent dwarves rants :
Make the BH a tank by having a Hate Fireworks and Make the WS a DD by having special WS only shots with extra damage.
The bottom line for me is that dwarves aren't for everyone.
My little ws has been stranded at his level for a long time cause i'm solo in the game now on my server (but help is on the way).
The scavi I never intended to take over 30 so he's done. He wasn't too much harder than other toons to get to 30 but back then C4 raidbosses made sense and I had a couple clan relationships.
I really like the WS. He is significantly harder than any of the other toons I've played.
At this point I have every class on some server past 1st class change except dagger and summoner (sorry, not interested).
I think I have 7 over 20 (class change completed) on Lionna, 1 on Franz, and 4 on Devianne (with 1 more toon just at 19).
By tonight that will be 13 toons over 20 in 9 months. On Devianne I have a mystic at 35 pushing towards C-grade and of course 1 of the lionna toons will be in C-grade before too long.
The dwarves for me have been the biggest challenge to date.
All that being said--I have a dwarf on all 3 servers!
Some folks feel 'dwarfish'. If that is you (to the OP) then actually you won't appreciate some of the other races/classes very much.
Let's be honest, with those HP's and a reasonable strength, in good armor and with a great weapon, it's not like dwarves can't stand to walk outside of town. With a low c-weapon and average gear my ws does just fine pve where ever I take him.
And I still argue he levels faster than that human fighter does!
To the OP--take a chance. If you're a pvp guy you wouldn't be talking dwarf anyway. As far as pve they are adequate and even as good as some other melees.
Final advice--if you go dwarf. Put him in mith heavy at 20+. It's shop purchase, relatively cheap, completes with a hoplon shield (also shop) and not much inferior to the ever-popular brigandine. Mith heavy will take you a long way in D-grade.
Spend all the money you can afford on the best weapon you can find--and a really fast weapon is as effective for your dwarfishness as a hard hitting weapon!!!! You'll need it.
I have a 62 WS, and a 50BH. Both of whom I enjoy playing. I also have the luxury of SE and EE buffs out of party so that helps. Levleing a dwarf from 40-52, literally can take a single day in Tanor canoyon with a pole and OE'd weapon. Yes I know not everyone has one, but they arent that bad. WS can do decent damage. Problem is you need to spend money to do it. A mech golem, buffed, spamming ss and a dwarf spamming ss, hits pretty **** hard. I soloed lair at 60 to level her to 62 actually. They arent the fastest levelers, but htey can take a hell of a beating. And yes, they do mane a fortune, if you are patient. Too many people got no patience.
PS. Im not argueing they dont get overlooked or nerfed in chronicles, Im just saying they are better than the average person gives them credit for. Ever watch a Con setup dwarf on siege grounds? Takes so long ot kill them while they are attacking the flag,s its a frigging riot
ironic, my main is a glad and my alt are dwarves :P Too bad I couldn't get em high enough to use big boom before C4 :(
But I do like to AOE with the dwarves though. I can solo some rift rooms with the right buffs. But sometimes I kinda wished that I made a dwarf as my main cause it always seem like im a step behind the other dwarves. "ok lvl 55, i can register Top B, wait...people now need A grade" When I can register A grade...S grade will most likely be in demand.
thats currently my problem too, you're not alone on that one, lol, i need to get my dorf so he can register top a stuff but by the time i do that the market will most likely be helluvalot bigger in S grade crafting, lol
Final advice--if you go dwarf. Put him in mith heavy at 20+. It's shop purchase, relatively cheap, completes with a hoplon shield (also shop) and not much inferior to the ever-popular brigandine. Mith heavy will take you a long way in D-grade.
A very excellent advice for D grade gear i must say, with the hoplon shield you get an HP bonus fairly equal to brigandineset and in D grade the p.def doesnt make as much difference between the sets as in B or A grade. I went brigandine set though as i used a pole since lvl 17 and wanted the HP bonus but couldnt use a shield, lol, so brig it was for me... but if you use blunts the best thing you can do is get mithril heavy and a hoplon :) (i have it on my anonymous scavvy and it i dare say works even better than my brig suit did on my WS :p )
If you really want to play a dwarf, I can give you some advice that will make it easier. Get a second account so you can follow your dwarf with a healer/buffer.
The dwarf levels very slowly on its own, and even in the best clans you will need to solo. Don't let it happen to you, 2-box a companion for your dwarf.
Just before C4, I used my main (70+ WS at the time) to boom up an SE, bishop, and prophet, all to level 40. I very quickly started to use the SE for buffs/healing when hunting solo. It made a huge difference compared to my usual unbuffed condition. The SE was also great in groups, when there were no clan healers available.
For the past few weeks I have leveled my SE side-by-side with my SH subclass up to 60. I take the SE everywhere, even when on my main. It makes joining groups, deep in dungeons, much easier.
Playing a dorf character as a main gave me a new economic mind set to the game. Perhaps this class is made for people who are "number crunchers" or see the value in their adena earned.
Sometimes I frustrate people when I tell them how one area is better than others in APH (adena per hour) or that crafting certain items is better than others when crystallizing, etc. But it is all about math. If you are good with it and want to make money, go dorf. BUT DO NOT EXPECT EXCITEMENT IN GAMEPLAY. The end game content for a dorf is dreadfully boring and I couldn't wait to subclass meh gurl to a SH. Much more exciting, but yes I still calculate everything to make money on her too.
There are some excellant spreadsheets out for crafting. Elrohir's is the best I have seen. A WS has more versatility in playstyle than a BH truly. However any good clan that does all their own crafting needs both. And needing both should be willing to help you level and get recipes (if your a WS). There are very few recipes in my book that weren't provided to me by my clan. And there are few members in my clan that aren't wearing gear I crafted.
Unfortunately there are few clans that craft all of their own gear.
anyone else notice the shift from "dwarves are fine how they are" a few months ago to 'dwarves are gimp these days" ?
im a high 70's crafter so let me try and sum this up for you
BH are a good money making class - if they have 8 other ppl following them around helping to kill mobs that are willing to hand over all spoils
WS is good at soloing - while duel boxing a se with the golem out spending double the amount of adena that any other class does
WS makes money crafting - most ppl will agree haveing a lvl 30 dwarf alt really helps when crafting since you dont have to pay a real crafter to make your mats
dwarves are good at aoe - but not as good as a human or orc
seriously any other class can make the same ammount of money as a dwarf but dont expect to ever be able to match their healing, buffing, damage dealing, tanking or raiding abilities
There are very few recipes in my book that weren't provided to me by my clan. And there are few members in my clan that aren't wearing gear I crafted.
Everyone has a diferent experience. There are very few (1 or 2) recipes that have been provided by my clan, and almost noone in my clan uses something that I crafted. Most equipment is purchased. Most clan members refuse to have anything to do with L2 quests for equipment parts and recipes.
There are very few recipes in my book that weren't provided to me by my clan. And there are few members in my clan that aren't wearing gear I crafted.
Everyone has a diferent experience. There are very few (1 or 2) recipes that have been provided by my clan, and almost noone in my clan uses something that I crafted. Most equipment is purchased. Most clan members refuse to have anything to do with L2 quests for equipment parts and recipes.
Which is what the farmer's count on people doing. Clan's like the one I am in are rare unfortunately. Which is why playing a dwarf is so unrewarding to most people. Dwarf's are a clan support class, they support their clan by crafting the gear needed or spoiling the mats needed. But they also must have a clan's support to do what they are designed for.
Dwarf's are a clan support class, they support their clan by crafting the gear needed or spoiling the mats needed. But they also must have a clan's support to do what they are designed for.
Hi Drosta, this is Gaen BTW. This is exactly right. I think most of the people bringing up new dwarves, as main characters, do it because they think they are cute.