Okay, so we all have had a good bit of time to experiance the SE in chronicle 5 and I am just curious if anyone has found any strat to make it an enjoyable class to play and maybe even remotely helpful in pvp?
At the momment it is tough to get me to play my SE, which is my main, because of c5. My dagger is infinately more enjoyable to play but there are people in my clan that need me for pve. And it sucks that I hate pve and play this game for pvp. I've been doing pvp every week as well as going to arena, I've given up on healing for pvp and I have been focusing on trying to find a use for mana burn. So far I have found none. The ammount of mana I can burn off a single target is low, and the cast and reuse time is slow. Acumen weapon with acumen buffs doesn't help enough, and a +1 sword of miracles only lets me burn about 500 mana off another A grade. I really don't see any practicle use for this skill. Sure coupled with erase against a summoner 1vs1 its good, but then again if you erase their pet you have alot of time to get rid of their mana.
So has anyone found anything that has helped you? A set up I dont' know about? Or are we subjected to only pve now.
My one idea I'd *like* to try but doubt I will is to go for an elemental sword with empower, which should put it up somewhere in the 170 m.atk at +0, which is about 20 m.atk more than an SoM. (I'm only going off of guesses right now, I don' thave time to look up the specifics. I'm leaving for work.)
So anyone that is better with number crunching for m.atk and how it would transfer to actual damage/burn what are your thoughts? Would the increased m.atk of an elemental sword be worth it in comparison to the m.atk and acumen of an SoM? Or would it just be too slow for any good.
SE were NEVER useful in pvp, even you should know that. i dont see how you think they would be useful now. the thing that made SE suck is their stats. being a healer u cant touch int meaning you have lowest men and wit. which also means you cant get fast enough cast speed. EE and bishop are pvp healers because of speed for EE and heal power for bishop. SEs are not meant to pvp at all since day 1
empower doesnt work like that. say u have 200 matk stat and a 100 matk weapon with empower(that would add 20 matk) your total matk is now 220. its a totally crap SA
Regarding PvE , try the 5 member limit Pagan Temple , 3 dds (with haste pots optional) + 1 BD and 1 SE can do very well in there.....a bit too well in fact, which may lead to a nerfing of VR/Vampire dance eventually....but you should be ok for several months yet (or untill ppl figure out how to get their sub-73 buff-bots down there)
Okay, first off, yes we always did suck at pvp. But not as bad as we are now. I would pvp in war and sieges constantly, and even with my crap wit and men I was able to heal well enough to be usefull in pvp and I have actually saved numerous people from dying. So to say that in pre-C5 that we were useless in pvp, that is more on the player end and not the character.
I do agree that our stats are terrible for pvp though, and I'm not really sure why we can't touch int but we can't so there isn't anything to be done with that. And this thread is not about how we can make our heals better. NCsoft buried that pretty well. An SE healing in pvp, aside from maybe throwing one out here and there, should not even be considered.
This is a thread about whether or not anyone has any strategies or info on making the most use out of the skills we DO have that can be used in pvp. My thoughts on the weapons is that would a sword with acumen and acumen buffs on make so much difference that it would definately be better than a sword that has potential to burn more mana per cast with an acumen buff. I will be the first to claim ignorance on figuring m.atk, I never worried about it till now, and that is why I am looking for feedback.
So does everyone agree that an SE is just meant to be a buff-bot or rather maybe a live buff-bot in my case and nothing more? Are the only usefull pvp skills (and rather weak ones at that) root, erase, and windshakle? Is mana burn really SO bad, as I've been saying it would be since the release of the patch notes in c4, that is should just be forgotten? I've heard someone say that the flaming dragon skull with SA silence worked really well in pvp on the PTS. Has anyone else tried it? Yeah its only a 10% chance, but if it casts and with an SE's naturally high int + emp it could really screw over some people.
People say that I give up too easy because I want to reroll (and would have already if I had a free char space or a char I want to delete), and yet I seem to be the only person trying to actually figure stuff out.
Regarding PvE , try the 5 member limit Pagan Temple , 3 dds (with haste pots optional) + 1 BD and 1 SE can do very well in there.....a bit too well in fact, which may lead to a nerfing of VR/Vampire dance eventually....but you should be ok for several months yet (or untill ppl figure out how to get their sub-73 buff-bots down there)
Man...if they nerfed vr that would just destroy the class beyond use. All we would have is empower than. If they would ever plan to do that they better give us some unique skills to make up for it, and not crappy ones either. :\
Greater Heal and Greater Group Heal have been nerfed beyond question. The inability to chain these effectively due to the silly HoT components makes them totally suck for PvP. They are "ok" for general PvE, but SE "heal per second" has taken a massive hit.
Being a Shillien Saint isn't bad. You're a great PvE asset as well as good secondary support in PvP (PoWind, powerful Mana Burn, Erase, Block Shield).
That being said, if I had to reroll a new main from scratch, it would not be an SE. I wouldn't want to wait until 77-78 to get those skills again. However, I'd not complain at all if they gave SEs Unholy Weapon and a nuke that worked on Angelic monsters (Abyssal Smite?) :)
I'd feel more sorry for SE's pvp ability if they weren't the number 1 choice for PVE (and outlevelling all us EE's and bishops) for so long. Now we get our glory days, suck it up.
And again, I say this having a SE that I use constantly. The heal nerf hurts, oh lord did it. But the class is still useful in all kinds of ways.. IMO.
I'd feel more sorry for SE's pvp ability if they weren't the number 1 choice for PVE (and outlevelling all us EE's and bishops) for so long. Now we get our glory days, suck it up.
And again, I say this having a SE that I use constantly. The heal nerf hurts, oh lord did it. But the class is still useful in all kinds of ways.. IMO.
And I would feel more sorry for the bishop and ee's not being picked for pve if they didn't rock so much more than us in pvp. :/ I have had chars going bishop and EE since C3, I always wanted them and would of traded an SE's pve abilities for a Bishops pvp abilities in a heart beat. But I don't think anyone can say that healer/buffer change in c5 was not unbalanaced. I mean, I don't mind being weakend in pve. I hate it. But come on, they didn't give us anything to balance it out in pvp.
Greater Heal and Greater Group Heal have been nerfed beyond question. The inability to chain these effectively due to the silly HoT components makes them totally suck for PvP. They are "ok" for general PvE, but SE "heal per second" has taken a massive hit.
Being a Shillien Saint isn't bad. You're a great PvE asset as well as good secondary support in PvP (PoWind, powerful Mana Burn, Erase, Block Shield).
That being said, if I had to reroll a new main from scratch, it would not be an SE. I wouldn't want to wait until 77-78 to get those skills again. However, I'd not complain at all if they gave SEs Unholy Weapon and a nuke that worked on Angelic monsters (Abyssal Smite?) :)
You say 'powerful mana burn". Any idea around how much mana you can actually burn at that lvl? I think you would be the best to actually give an oppinion on mana burn. And about being a 'good secondary support.' Can you explain that more? Like what you do that actually makes for the word 'good'? lol, cause everything I have tried recently in pvp I wouldn't find that word fitting. Also, what gear/tats do you use?
My clan wants me to just suck it up and sub, but I just can't get motivated anymore. My SE doesn't have anything to lvl for aside from prophecy of wind and really, its not worth the headache to me. Especially with how slow I lvl. Its rather sad when you see someone who you helped powerlevel out lvl you by quite alot of levels, or someone that has out lvled you 2 or 3 times. If I could lvl like most people I know I would be subbed on one char and close to a sub on my abyss walker by now. lol
For my SE i got tired of lfg after 40, so I made him into DD with a bow. With a plated leather set and strength tat , he does amzing crits. I'm lucky in that I have a PP leved up to 62 to give me zerk and haste ,so he was able to solo fine from 40 to 52. I've nver been allowed to try bow out on sieges, but I have hit a few bots with it and I do more damage per hit then my BH I duo with. The heals, if we need them are slow, but I just wait til no mobs, take off bow and heal that way.
My clan wants me to just suck it up and sub, but I just can't get motivated anymore. My SE doesn't have anything to lvl for aside from prophecy of wind and really, its not worth the headache to me. Especially with how slow I lvl.
Same situation.I just dont see any point to spend 3-4 months leveling useless toon if i'm going to sub and forget about my main.Better to reroll now :)
Greater Heal and Greater Group Heal have been nerfed beyond question. The inability to chain these effectively due to the silly HoT components makes them totally suck for PvP. They are "ok" for general PvE, but SE "heal per second" has taken a massive hit.
Being a Shillien Saint isn't bad. You're a great PvE asset as well as good secondary support in PvP (PoWind, powerful Mana Burn, Erase, Block Shield).
That being said, if I had to reroll a new main from scratch, it would not be an SE. I wouldn't want to wait until 77-78 to get those skills again. However, I'd not complain at all if they gave SEs Unholy Weapon and a nuke that worked on Angelic monsters (Abyssal Smite?) :)
You say 'powerful mana burn". Any idea around how much mana you can actually burn at that lvl? I think you would be the best to actually give an oppinion on mana burn. And about being a 'good secondary support.' Can you explain that more? Like what you do that actually makes for the word 'good'? lol, cause everything I have tried recently in pvp I wouldn't find that word fitting. Also, what gear/tats do you use?
My clan wants me to just suck it up and sub, but I just can't get motivated anymore. My SE doesn't have anything to lvl for aside from prophecy of wind and really, its not worth the headache to me. Especially with how slow I lvl. Its rather sad when you see someone who you helped powerlevel out lvl you by quite alot of levels, or someone that has out lvled you 2 or 3 times. If I could lvl like most people I know I would be subbed on one char and close to a sub on my abyss walker by now. lol
You can't have unrealistic expectations of Mana Burn; it's not usually an uber one-shot skill that disables people. In some PvPs you won't use it at all, but sometimes you'll find it very handy. SE easily has the highest m.atk, so your Mana Burn will give you more bang for your buck vs. another healer of similar lvl. EEs do it significantly faster, which does even it out, but the bright side is that your heals suck, so sometimes you will be better off using Mana Burn to limit or disable the skills of a target :p
By "good secondary support", I mean that SEs are generally not the first pick for PvP unless their buffs are critical, but they are nice to have when you have a dedicated healer like a bishop or an EE to cover your weak spot. While the better healer is trying to maintain the party's HP, you can go to work with Root and perhaps Mana Burn at the least. Mental Shield became significantly weaker in C5, which is a boon for classes that rely on hold attacks for crowd control, most of all prophets and SEs.
As for gear, I use a DC robe set, Tat jewelry, Antharas Earring, and an Infinity Rod (contingent on winning Hero, of course), Arcana Mace, or SoM (because I'm cheap and don't like using sbsps in PvE). I have a Major Arcana Robe set that I rarely break out for my SE due to the low casting speed.
I feel your pain, but I do believe that SEs are still more than viable. We have a very useful combination of skills without which a lot of people wouldn't level their overpowered DD classes :p I would just like to see more "flavor" and distinctiveness put back into the class, even if the skills tended toward PvE application. VR and even Empower are shared with other classes, and that devalues us a little bit. Prophets suffer from this problem to an extent, but are doing better than before at high levels because they just have so many good things going for them.
To beat a dead horse, this is my wishlist for SE skills:
- Surrender to Darkness
- Unholy Weapon
- Abyssal Smite (angel-killing counterpart of Might of Heaven)
- Fusion spells for high level healers of same faith (S.Saint, Cardinal, E.Saint)
The SE has so many skills, it is meant to be the buffer Elder yet gets a cure for para and Greater Group Heal, they have buffs, debuffs, heals, recharge, offensive and defensive spells. If anything SEs were the overpowered support class in this game and now other support classes have something to offer too does not make the SE less valuable.
How to make SE fun in PVP:
- Buff your partymates
- Stay in town/castle
- Have fun watch some movie while they are fighting
- ask them on vent or switch to L2 window from time to time to check how they're doing.
The SE has so many skills, it is meant to be the buffer Elder yet gets a cure for para and Greater Group Heal, they have buffs, debuffs, heals, recharge, offensive and defensive spells. If anything SEs were the overpowered support class in this game and now other support classes have something to offer too does not make the SE less valuable.
And yet the only buff we have that is unique to us is empower. Yes we do have some of the nice melee buffs, but compared to a prophet we don't have much. A Prophet has btb, btm, zerk, acumen, greater might, greater sheild... and alot more. I know more people on Hindemith that would rather duo with a prophet than a shilen elder. And I really don't see SE as being over-powered. How are we? be cause we are favored for pve with an okay ammount of buffs? Well with us sucking up the pvp I think that it kinda balances that out. And really, bishops and EE can lvl just as fast as an SE can. You just need to get in the right clan/alliance so that they get you partied. If your having trouble, not the SE's fault. SE also can have trouble in pve just because how boring it is. Unless you are in a small group you don't do anything except buff every 20 minutes, maybe throw out a heal or recharge here or there. Prophets have the same problem. How you expect the SE to want to lvl like that with nothing to look forward to?
Greater Heal and Greater Group Heal have been nerfed beyond question. The inability to chain these effectively due to the silly HoT components makes them totally suck for PvP. They are "ok" for general PvE, but SE "heal per second" has taken a massive hit.
Being a Shillien Saint isn't bad. You're a great PvE asset as well as good secondary support in PvP (PoWind, powerful Mana Burn, Erase, Block Shield).
That being said, if I had to reroll a new main from scratch, it would not be an SE. I wouldn't want to wait until 77-78 to get those skills again. However, I'd not complain at all if they gave SEs Unholy Weapon and a nuke that worked on Angelic monsters (Abyssal Smite?) :)
You say 'powerful mana burn". Any idea around how much mana you can actually burn at that lvl? I think you would be the best to actually give an oppinion on mana burn. And about being a 'good secondary support.' Can you explain that more? Like what you do that actually makes for the word 'good'? lol, cause everything I have tried recently in pvp I wouldn't find that word fitting. Also, what gear/tats do you use?
My clan wants me to just suck it up and sub, but I just can't get motivated anymore. My SE doesn't have anything to lvl for aside from prophecy of wind and really, its not worth the headache to me. Especially with how slow I lvl. Its rather sad when you see someone who you helped powerlevel out lvl you by quite alot of levels, or someone that has out lvled you 2 or 3 times. If I could lvl like most people I know I would be subbed on one char and close to a sub on my abyss walker by now. lol
You can't have unrealistic expectations of Mana Burn; it's not usually an uber one-shot skill that disables people. In some PvPs you won't use it at all, but sometimes you'll find it very handy. SE easily has the highest m.atk, so your Mana Burn will give you more bang for your buck vs. another healer of similar lvl. EEs do it significantly faster, which does even it out, but the bright side is that your heals suck, so sometimes you will be better off using Mana Burn to limit or disable the skills of a target :p
By "good secondary support", I mean that SEs are generally not the first pick for PvP unless their buffs are critical, but they are nice to have when you have a dedicated healer like a bishop or an EE to cover your weak spot. While the better healer is trying to maintain the party's HP, you can go to work with Root and perhaps Mana Burn at the least. Mental Shield became significantly weaker in C5, which is a boon for classes that rely on hold attacks for crowd control, most of all prophets and SEs.
As for gear, I use a DC robe set, Tat jewelry, Antharas Earring, and an Infinity Rod (contingent on winning Hero, of course), Arcana Mace, or SoM (because I'm cheap and don't like using sbsps in PvE). I have a Major Arcana Robe set that I rarely break out for my SE due to the low casting speed.
I feel your pain, but I do believe that SEs are still more than viable. We have a very useful combination of skills without which a lot of people wouldn't level their overpowered DD classes :p I would just like to see more "flavor" and distinctiveness put back into the class, even if the skills tended toward PvE application. VR and even Empower are shared with other classes, and that devalues us a little bit. Prophets suffer from this problem to an extent, but are doing better than before at high levels because they just have so many good things going for them.
To beat a dead horse, this is my wishlist for SE skills:
- Surrender to Darkness
- Unholy Weapon
- Abyssal Smite (angel-killing counterpart of Might of Heaven)
- Fusion spells for high level healers of same faith (S.Saint, Cardinal, E.Saint)
Oh, I do not have unrealistic expectations about mana burn. I believe mana burn to be completely useless based on the tests I've done with it. And this is why I am asking you question, because you seem to be the only SE I've talked to so far who thinks it to be in situations 'hand'y. lol I'm still really curious as to how much mana you can burn with your gear, seing as right now I would have to be throwing out mana burn like 8 times or so (all speculation at the momment) to drain a lvl 75 warlock. Now, I understand that when the targets are using skills it will drain alot faster, but I don't see it draining that much to make it usefull.
SEs have all these skills to make up for their incredibly poor healer stats - low mana regeneration, low cast speed - high INT, but what for?
NCSoft has a habit of compensating some (and only some - grr) classes for their inferior stats for their choice of profession: THs' dual critical and attack speed passives and gladiators' attack speed self-buffs are probably meant to accomodate low human DEX, while SKs damage minimisation skills (Phantom Cubic, their unique leech) compensate their low CON (finally a relevant stat after only four chronicles of being virtually useless outside of limited PvP circumstances).
SEs got a buttload of skills to compensate for their low WIT. What NCSoft forgot was that giving all necessary buffs to one class meant a virtual PvE death sentence for the other healers in PvE, and that not doing anythign to actually compensate the cast speed meant an actual death sentence for SEs in PvP.
Until then - I htink light armour and debuffs are pretty much the only thing an SE could be even remotely useful for in PvP.
SEs got a buttload of skills to compensate for their low WIT. What NCSoft forgot was that giving all necessary buffs to one class meant a virtual PvE death sentence for the other healers in PvE, and that not doing anythign to actually compensate the cast speed meant an actual death sentence for SEs in PvP.
It is not only the low casting speed which makes SE utterly useless in PvP as a healer, it is also the low power heals - that is, when the slow heals finally DO arrive, they heal only for like 600-700 hp. The HoT part can be completely disregarded in PvP, it does not matter at all, the only thing which matters for a healer in PvP is being able to outheal the damage by either throwing equally large lumps of positive hp on a target, or being able to throw slightly smaller lumps of positive hp at a higher speed. The C5 SE can only throw ridiculously small lumps of positive hp at a very slow speed.
The slow casting speed alone made the SE the worst PvP healer already in C4, by decreasing the hp/s of the heals NCSoft made the problem only worse.
So the only thing a SE can do in PvP is debuff and support the real healers by throwing a group heal every now and then (of course problem with that is that most pvp groups do not take two healers, they'd rather take one good healer and more DDs, so the SE won't have a group to group heal). Sadly, SE does not have many debuffs. Wind Shackle, Block Shield, Mana Burn (if you count that as a "debuff", lol), root. Wind Shackle is far too underpowered, Block Shield is halfway decent if you have lots of archers/melees on your side, Mana Burn drains not enough mp so it needs to be used very often on one target to be effective (draining a nuker two or three times won't turn the tide of a pvp, he will simply ignore it). Root seems to be ok-ish in C5 because of the mental aegis nerf. But of course all the debuffs suffer from the range - when two sides stand at nuker/archer range, you'd have to run towards the enemy to use them instead of standing in the usual healer position BEHIND the DDs, and then you'd die.
So I'd say that the C5 SE simply has no defined role in PvP. He throws a heal here and there to help out a bit with the healing and otherwise wastes mp to try and root people. And when somebody actually bothers to target the SE and nuke/shoot, the SE dies because he cannot even save himself with his heals. Apart from that, it's waiting until somebody shouts "rebuff emp/wm" or "mp!". So - yes, if you want to have fun at sieges or during open pvp, SE is the wrong class. Together with the prophet probably the only classes in game which are that useless.
It is not only the low casting speed which makes SE utterly useless in PvP as a healer, it is also the low power heals - that is, when the slow heals finally DO arrive, they heal only for like 600-700 hp. The HoT part can be completely disregarded in PvP, it does not matter at all, the only thing which matters for a healer in PvP is being able to outheal the damage by either throwing equally large lumps of positive hp on a target, or being able to throw slightly smaller lumps of positive hp at a higher speed. The C5 SE can only throw ridiculously small lumps of positive hp at a very slow speed.
The slow casting speed alone made the SE the worst PvP healer already in C4, by decreasing the hp/s of the heals NCSoft made the problem only worse.
So the only thing a SE can do in PvP is debuff and support the real healers by throwing a group heal every now and then (of course problem with that is that most pvp groups do not take two healers, they'd rather take one good healer and more DDs, so the SE won't have a group to group heal). Sadly, SE does not have many debuffs. Wind Shackle, Block Shield, Mana Burn (if you count that as a "debuff", lol), root. Wind Shackle is far too underpowered, Block Shield is halfway decent if you have lots of archers/melees on your side, Mana Burn drains not enough mp so it needs to be used very often on one target to be effective (draining a nuker two or three times won't turn the tide of a pvp, he will simply ignore it). Root seems to be ok-ish in C5 because of the mental aegis nerf. But of course all the debuffs suffer from the range - when two sides stand at nuker/archer range, you'd have to run towards the enemy to use them instead of standing in the usual healer position BEHIND the DDs, and then you'd die.
So I'd say that the C5 SE simply has no defined role in PvP. He throws a heal here and there to help out a bit with the healing and otherwise wastes mp to try and root people. And when somebody actually bothers to target the SE and nuke/shoot, the SE dies because he cannot even save himself with his heals. Apart from that, it's waiting until somebody shouts "rebuff emp/wm" or "mp!". So - yes, if you want to have fun at sieges or during open pvp, SE is the wrong class. Together with the prophet probably the only classes in game which are that useless.
*claps* I couldn't of summorized the situation better myself.
So I think its pretty set in stone that in pvp we are ultimately useless. At least for sieges. You hit the nail on the head with the range of our 'debuffs'. Root only has a range of 600, while a nuke will have one of 900. Mana burn 'does' have a range of 900 though, that is why I am focusing on that skill to try and salvage my class. If I can get some enjoyment out of it maybe then I can finish out the lvls. Most likely not, but maybe. Root in war would be alot better since your not waiting for the group to attack usually so in that sense the chance for getting in close enough to root is alot better.
So I'm going to give out my ideas on weaponry. I haven' t the money to get these and try them out so I really don't fully understand how they work. So if someone out there does understand, enlighten me so I can then go from there. And remember lets think of this weapon for PVP ONLY. I can make do with my current weapons for pve.
SoM/Flaming Dragon Skull SA-Acumen: This seems to be what everyone is recommending for me. Good m.atk on the som (don't know about the flaming dragon skull but it does get acumen, right?) and the boost in speed will let me cast my skills faster, always a plus especially for us dark elves.
My problem with this is just simply that I don't see the added acumen helping along the low power of the mana burn enough. Maybe if I could also afford(which I can't but lets talk figuratively) a dark crystal set and wit tats it might work better? I still would think it too slow for the amount of mana it actually burns. Small pvp battles like wars would rarely last long enough for me to burn out someone's mana. In sieges there is a chance that the two groups will lock heads long enough to do some damage to one person unles of course the nukers run in, nuke, and run back out.
SoM/Flaming Dragon Skull SA - Silence: Its a slower cast, but there is a 10% chance that it will cast and that would ammount for a 10% chance of being useful. lol To cling to such a low probability for pvp is terrible, but considering the alternatives it is actually very appealing to me.
Elemental Sword SA - Magic Power: The +15% mana usage sucks, no ways around that. But like I said, this would be for pvp only, I'm not going to be a healer so really the only person who needs my mana aside from buffs is no one but myself. The appealing thing about this sa though is the added 153 m.atk it gives. I haven't figured out, or checked, for the multiplier to actually figure out what my m.atk would be with each weapon with SA but I'm pretty sure with this SA that it will have more m.atk than the SoM would without it. So the idea would just simply be to do the largest amount of annoyance per cast in situations where you won't have the time to cast often. Now I know that the SoM also gets magic power which definately would be better if I went this route, but we have to consider 2 things. SoM is hella alot more expensive and I am poor. And I also like the looks of the elemental sword better. haha.
Again, I don't know everything about these SAs so please help me to understand them. Sadly the most likely scenario for me is that each day I play my SE I get frustrated and hate the class more and more. So sooner than later I will just delete one of my alts that I don't play and start a class I really do want to and will enjoy.
The HoT is stupid and needs to go. On the other hand, it's fine by me if they don't want SEs healing for PvP, but they need to throw them some goodies to compensate. Even if the role of the SE is intended by design to be primarily leveling support, its range of tools needs to be broadened. If we are to be PvE specialists, then cough up the Unholy Weapon and angel nukes at least :p I really like the idea of Surrender to Darkness because it would have some PvP application as well. Surrender and a mob-specific nuke would at least provide functions that a boxed SE can't do just as well as a live one.
Some EEs and Bishops have it out for the SE class because they blame it for hedging them out of PvE groups, therefore they reject any suggestion of improving it. I say again that if EEs and Bishops are to be vastly preferred for PvP, then it won't hurt to give SEs some more unique abilities that distinguish their class from the others and give them a more defined niche.
IMO SEs need to move more to the debuff part of the support spectrum. Make them dark magic support specialists, as fits priests of the Goddess of DARKNESS. SEs should have great synergy with dark attack nukers in PvE and PvP as well as provide great PvE support against angelic monsters.
why the hell nukers in strong clan would need se buffs??
They gave the last unique se skill to Dominators, i know thats 78lvl but still, se dont even have 1 unique skill that noone else has...
why the hell nukers in strong clan would need se buffs??
They gave the last unique se skill to Dominators, i know thats 78lvl but still, se dont even have 1 unique skill that noone else has...
Oh dont cry, theres proberbly like 2 OL's that have Empower lol, and they dont have Recharge to back it up, dont worry, Mages arent going to be shouting for 78 Dominators over SE's ^^.
Orcs seem to be the all around super buffers now. They have everything we have now as well as melee use. In a siege an SE will probably just be buffing vr to the people who are not in the war cryer's group. And really, if you don't have orcs to do that then you can get your buffs from the ally member's 2 box that is sitting behind the main group out of view. Buffing is a terrible role for pvp. I do however agree that SE should get more actual debuffs since debuffing is what DE is all about. I mean, everyone DE gets at least one. I'd be perfectly satisfied for pvp dishing out the extra money to get a decent light armor set for myself and focusing only on debuffing the enemy. Actually, if they gave us something useful like that for pvp I think I would cry in happiness.
Game Cycles, each chronicles bring more powerful classes and some classes gets nerfed.
NcSoft's been doing mid Chronicl balancing past two chronicles so we may see somthing in this chronicle. If not, more balancing will be done in new update (not named chronicle) based on information they gather in C5.
I wouldn't abandon SE main just b/e we got nerfed a bit in C5. We are still usuful class in PvE. I would wait and see. Meanwhile, sub a PvP class.
Azures makes good sense: you never know what's going to happen with future updates, so cope with what you have for now. Besides, NC <3s elves of both kinds, so chances are good that we get upgraded again soon :p
Game Cycles, each chronicles bring more powerful classes and some classes gets nerfed.
NcSoft's been doing mid Chronicl balancing past two chronicles so we may see somthing in this chronicle. If not, more balancing will be done in new update (not named chronicle) based on information they gather in C5.
I wouldn't abandon SE main just b/e we got nerfed a bit in C5. We are still usuful class in PvE. I would wait and see. Meanwhile, sub a PvP class.
I'm not abandoning my SE, just taking the 'main' title off of it. heh. We are still a very useful class in pve, unless you have both a WC/Overlord and an EE in group, then we are a recharger. lol. But pve is boring and its hard for me to push my class to sub. And due to current circumstances it will take even longer to sub than what it would before. I wanted to sub a phantom summoner, but I've set my one alt up for deletion to make a char that will go that. The wait for a useful pvp class from a sub is just going to be too long. Heh, I don't even know if a PS would be useful, but it can't be anyworse than an SE. :)
I'd really love that the SE gets balanced mid c5 but I am looking at that as a very unlikely scenario. I will still play my SE fairly reguarly to work towards subbing (though with a char going PS I don't know what I would sub) and I do want prophecy of wind so I can get it out of my warehouse.
But an A grade weapon with magic silence SA, anyone have any thoughts on that? I know someone who tried it and they thought it worked pretty well for pvp and casted around 1 out of 10 tries for the most part.
Only thing that is really bad about PS is Soulless.You will need to box your se to level with it.That contract payment really sucks.If you dont bring SE or other recharger you will need to level with 30% summon.
Healers arent meant for PvP, maybe if people couldnt 1/2 shot others, Healing them might be an option.
Stick to buffing other ppl so they can own, its what your there for.
Quite true, The PvP healing issue is kind of a red herring since all healers are in fact almost equally useless in PvP.
Basic PvP = each sides DDs hit each other for 1-2 seconds until one side dies , then the DDs who didnt die in the 2 second exchange get their HP topped back up by their healers so that they are fully ready for the next exchange....and so it goes on.
Healing mid-fight has little effect apart from flagging the healer and/or placing it inside enemy DD range so that it can be dropped in 2 shots anyway......
Any semblence of sensible PvP "healing" involves maintaining 900+ range from enemy DDS , which is quite ofter 600+ range from Friendly DDs meaning the healer cant heal them anyway until they have dis-engaged and moved back to their healers to get healed.....in which case the healers Cast Speed is of little consequence.
All healers suck in PvP, and in the overall PvP suckiness scale, SEs are probably only slightly below EEs who are slightly below Bishops.
Hmm, Magic silence or paralyse are probably the best option now, considering healers now have a 900 range attack to use to try to trigger it. You could spam mana-burn in the hopes of landing etc.
Pre-C5 it was a 10% chance to cast (not land) for silence, 5% to cast for paralyse.......this was pretty much rendered useless due to the lack of a long range attack spell to use to trigger it and the low land rates of these spells pre-c5, however since the actual land rates have gone up you may find these SA's usable now.
A silence SA could now likely land 75% of its triggers, or about 7.5% chance of land per cast overall....so spam 15 or so mana burns and you should land it.
Anchor SA should work out about half the rate of silence......so 30 spams to land :p
.......
Or perhaps the higher rate SAs (magic root/poison etc) might be more practical. 900 range mana burns with a root effect could be fun.
This thread definitely shouldn't be a "how to use SEs in PvP" discussion. As many people pointed out, SEs have always been awful in PvP. For PvE they are good though. When I heal, I chain Greater Heal with Heal and I can throw out a lot of HP really quickly. If someone is really getting pounded, I'll toss on a battle heal on the end too.
Hmm, Magic silence or paralyse are probably the best option now, considering healers now have a 900 range attack to use to try to trigger it. You could spam mana-burn in the hopes of landing etc.
Pre-C5 it was a 10% chance to cast (not land) for silence, 5% to cast for paralyse.......this was pretty much rendered useless due to the lack of a long range attack spell to use to trigger it and the low land rates of these spells pre-c5, however since the actual land rates have gone up you may find these SA's usable now.
A silence SA could now likely land 75% of its triggers, or about 7.5% chance of land per cast overall....so spam 15 or so mana burns and you should land it.
Anchor SA should work out about half the rate of silence......so 30 spams to land :p
.......
Or perhaps the higher rate SAs (magic root/poison etc) might be more practical. 900 range mana burns with a root effect could be fun.
Thankyou! This is the type of post I personally wanted. :) I am leaning towards silence right now. And is there a magic root sa? But yeah, I personally feel taking a 10% chance of screwing someone over nicely is alot better than going with acumen and only being able to cast a little faster of a spell that is even then too slow to be of use. The range of mana burn is VERY important as root and windshackle only have a range of 600 as opposed to 900 of a mana burn. I could essentially hide in with the nukers and spam mana burn at the enemy and possibly silencing them which knocks them out of the fight unless they die. But still, its alot better than nothing.
This thread definitely shouldn't be a "how to use SEs in PvP" discussion. As many people pointed out, SEs have always been awful in PvP. For PvE they are good though. When I heal, I chain Greater Heal with Heal and I can throw out a lot of HP really quickly. If someone is really getting pounded, I'll toss on a battle heal on the end too.
Actually this thread has no defined direction aside of it being about SE. I am personally looking for feedback and thoughts on pvp because pvp is what I care about in this game. I couldn't give a rat about pve.
But your right, alternating greater heal and heal is the way to handle pve. Though really most groups you should beable to do just fine with only greater heal.
And once again, no SE was NOT always aweful at pvp. Not the best, that is true, but we were definately of use. I was alot of help in war, sieges not so much. But even in sieges where dmg being thrown around everywhere is at its highest I was still of use. And healing mid battle IS still important. I'm not saying you will beable to get off more than one heal on a target that is being nuked but it can be life saving. And I healed alot while battles were still going on. It probably happened mostly when the person that is attacking my ally dies before completing the job and I heal him up to full so the next time he gets attacked he has a chance. But that is still very important.
Hmm, Magic silence or paralyse are probably the best option now, considering healers now have a 900 range attack to use to try to trigger it. You could spam mana-burn in the hopes of landing etc.
Pre-C5 it was a 10% chance to cast (not land) for silence, 5% to cast for paralyse.......this was pretty much rendered useless due to the lack of a long range attack spell to use to trigger it and the low land rates of these spells pre-c5, however since the actual land rates have gone up you may find these SA's usable now.
A silence SA could now likely land 75% of its triggers, or about 7.5% chance of land per cast overall....so spam 15 or so mana burns and you should land it.
Anchor SA should work out about half the rate of silence......so 30 spams to land :p
.......
Or perhaps the higher rate SAs (magic root/poison etc) might be more practical. 900 range mana burns with a root effect could be fun.
Thankyou! This is the type of post I personally wanted. :) I am leaning towards silence right now. And is there a magic root sa? But yeah, I personally feel taking a 10% chance of screwing someone over nicely is alot better than going with acumen and only being able to cast a little faster of a spell that is even then too slow to be of use. The range of mana burn is VERY important as root and windshackle only have a range of 600 as opposed to 900 of a mana burn. I could essentially hide in with the nukers and spam mana burn at the enemy and possibly silencing them which knocks them out of the fight unless they die. But still, its alot better than nothing.
There is a root SA , magic hold, on the B grade sprite staff, and the S grade imperial staff , but its only 10% rate though..... so yes Silence seems the best option , considering a 10% trigger rate and probably about a 75% land rate now. Also considering the actual Silence spell has a 30 sec or so re-use, you should be able get off about 10 mana burn casts in that time, which ends up giving you the possibility to silence up to 10 enemies in the same timeframe that a SH/Necro can silence just one......if you are really lucky that is :p
lol, that would be hilarious if I was able to do that. But yeah, if the magic hold is only a 10% propbability better just to go with silence as I already have root. It would of been cool if it was higher though, cause then you essentially have a 900 range root.
Hmm, Magic silence or paralyse are probably the best option now, considering healers now have a 900 range attack to use to try to trigger it. You could spam mana-burn in the hopes of landing etc.
Pre-C5 it was a 10% chance to cast (not land) for silence, 5% to cast for paralyse.......this was pretty much rendered useless due to the lack of a long range attack spell to use to trigger it and the low land rates of these spells pre-c5, however since the actual land rates have gone up you may find these SA's usable now.
A silence SA could now likely land 75% of its triggers, or about 7.5% chance of land per cast overall....so spam 15 or so mana burns and you should land it.
Anchor SA should work out about half the rate of silence......so 30 spams to land :p
.......
Or perhaps the higher rate SAs (magic root/poison etc) might be more practical. 900 range mana burns with a root effect could be fun.
Thankyou! This is the type of post I personally wanted. :) I am leaning towards silence right now. And is there a magic root sa? But yeah, I personally feel taking a 10% chance of screwing someone over nicely is alot better than going with acumen and only being able to cast a little faster of a spell that is even then too slow to be of use. The range of mana burn is VERY important as root and windshackle only have a range of 600 as opposed to 900 of a mana burn. I could essentially hide in with the nukers and spam mana burn at the enemy and possibly silencing them which knocks them out of the fight unless they die. But still, its alot better than nothing.
There is a root SA , magic hold, on the B grade sprite staff, and the S grade imperial staff , but its only 10% rate though..... so yes Silence seems the best option , considering a 10% trigger rate and probably about a 75% land rate now. Also considering the actual Silence spell has a 30 sec or so re-use, you should be able get off about 10 mana burn casts in that time, which ends up giving you the possibility to silence up to 10 enemies in the same timeframe that a SH/Necro can silence just one......if you are really lucky that is :p
The recast timer on Silence is far short of 30 seconds with buffs and a casting speed setup, but that's beside the point. Mana Burn isn't super-spammable without full casting speed and reuse reduction buffs, so I wouldn't expect to be firing SAs off left and right in your average PvP, especially without an Acumen weapon.
It might be fun to try just for the heck of it, but I'd keep expectations low so as to perhaps be pleasantly surprised.
Would silence on a weapon make me own? Hell no. I'm not trying to make my SE good in pvp, it just isn't going to happen without a new chronicle/update. But I can't play a char without pvp. Pve is just way to boring and as a buffer I do even less than if I was a healer. I'm just trying to get some well rounded enjoyment out of the class so I can get him to sub/shilen saint. And if I can piss someone off in the process then it was a good move on my part. ^^