So I thought it might be nice to get some glaive edges using my bounty hunter. I therefore headed to the sea of spores and spoiled dire wyrms. The result? 1 dye, 1 bspsc rec, 1 glaive edge from spoiling dire wyrms for 3 levels (dire wyrms were white then green). I then travelled to Dragon Valley and within 10% I got 2 c-grade weapon recipes.
This is silly. The spoil rate for d-grade blades should be higher than that of c-grade weapon recipes. And spoil rates shouldn't be so low that a c-grade bounty hunter spends 3 levels to get enough blades for 1/7 of a d-grade weapon. As a drop rate, maybe ok, but as a spoil rate?
Anyone who plays a dwarf Scavenger/Bounty Hunter has been complaining about this since the game started....just like how many critical recipes/mats either have a LOWER spoil rate than those Glaive blades....or DON'T spoil at all! (And that doesn't even take into account WHICH mobs things spoil from when they do....)
And in fact you shouldn't be complaining.
Put a shop with that sought for BSPS rcp and than a buy shop for your blades. That's how the game is meant to be played.
You're not supposed to be able to do it all on yourself. It's a COMMUNITY based game.
Proof is that the things you want right now are spoiled/dropped by mobs generally too high for you.
<ul type="square"> some heavy used materials can't be spoil after lvl60; for example animal bones/cbp :mad:
75+ mobs spoil metal hardener; only used for c grade weapon .... :eek:
some key parts and rec are drop only; for example csps-rec, brig/manticore/elven mithril gloves/boots parts (drop all from the same mobs .... :eek: )
....
And in fact you shouldn't be complaining.
Put a shop with that sought for BSPS rcp and than a buy shop for your blades. That's how the game is meant to be played.
You're not supposed to be able to do it all on yourself. It's a COMMUNITY based game.
Proof is that the things you want right now are spoiled/dropped by mobs generally too high for you.
IMO i think as a bounty hunter as game description implies, I/he/she should be able to go forth into Aden, spoil necessary materials and then go to the "community" crafter and have the weapon crafted :) Not spoil one material and then hope that some adventurer has stumbled upon the item and decides to sell to me.
<ul type="square"> some heavy used materials can't be spoil after lvl60; for example animal bones/cbp :mad:
75+ mobs spoil metal hardener; only used for c grade weapon .... :eek:
some key parts and rec are drop only; for example csps-rec, brig/manticore/elven mithril gloves/boots parts (drop all from the same mobs .... :eek: )
....
CBSPS Recipe is spoilable, and the rate is far from really bad.
i spent approx 15 lvls looking for that rec, as spoil and drop:-(
it changed in c4, nt sure if it changed back in c5, but prices were in the millions for it on kain.
And besides the spoil rates being barely better than drop rates, its still pretty amazing just how many things in the game aren't spoilable. Brig helmet designs, plated leather boot designs, most b-grade recipes, most top d-grade weapon parts.
yes, spoil rates are dumb. and i hate how they will like put the recipe and/or the part in an undwarf friendly area. I don't mind taking time to spoil, but I don't like it, when my death anxiety is high at the same time.
NC really does need to reassess spoil rates and rewards, especially at higher levels. Apparently NC seems to think that the economy would crash if every other mob didn't spoil something like Metallic Fiber or Silver Nuggets.
Lvl 80+ monsters should be spoiling Mithril Alloy, DMP, or something else of relevance to the crowd that routinely hunts them. It's funny that players seeding off of farmers are usually better at acquiring these sorts of materials than BHs are.
I don't know about everyone else, but it has been a long time since I last grouped a BH with material-gathering in mind. I couldn't care less about most of the crap that they spoil unless it's large quantities of animal bone, varnish, or a related material; there's rarely any motivation to group them for their spoiling abilities unless you are hoping to acquire very specific rewards like recipes or enchants.
Well, maybe NC has plans to improve life for the BH/FS class since they mentioned improving at least the economic powers of dwarves. IMO, if you become a Fortune Seeker, you deserve a lot more than the game is currently offering on the spoil front. Increased landing rate, increased rate of various rewards, and a better reward table for most mobs would be a great start.
...and yes, I realize that farmers would really enjoy this as well, but I don't care if it causes some dip or shift in mat prices if it rewards some real BH/FS players in the process.
Lvl 80+ monsters should be spoiling Mithril Alloy, DMP,
thats prolly a nerf to crafters
i wouldnt mind if mobs all the way to lvl 85 spoiled base mats but you gotta give the noob crafters something to do
Perhaps, but on the other hand, I doubt noob crafters would be put out of business by this change. We already have manor for things like Mithril Alloy and DMP, after all.
Also, people who aren't a party to spoiling these mats would have to buy them from the market, where high-level mats are notoriously overpriced. Purchasing base mats and using lowbie crafters would most likely remain a popular choice except in the unlikely event that NC skewed the spoil rates so badly as to make high-level materials more common in spoil than low-level ones.
Waking scrolls are a wasted drop period. However, you hunt far more animal bones / level by 60 than you did at 2. I don't think mats or gear are the least bit "out of whack" in L2. Prices are pretty conservative to be honest.
Waking scrolls are a wasted drop period. However, you hunt far more animal bones / level by 60 than you did at 2. I don't think mats or gear are the least bit "out of whack" in L2. Prices are pretty conservative to be honest.
You seem to be failing to account for the fact that demand for these materials increases drastically as you go up the scale in levels, and there is something basically wrong with some of the highest-level, highest-risk monsters in the game yielding rewards that are often barely better, roughly equivalent to, or even slightly worse than their lower-level counterparts.
Using mobs/level = mats as an argument for the status quo is a bit silly. Killing 1000 lvl 75+ monsters should, on average, yield more and better goodies than killing 1000 lvl 55 monsters, period (and they tend to, over time and depending on the mob, but IMO drops like 1 Coal or 1 Thread are far too frequent). Besides, as I touched on earlier, 1 Animal Bone is significantly more useful to a lvl 60 than it is to a lvl 75+; high-grade crafts take more materials and have no 100% recipes.
All of this is just to say that, following from the original topic, spoil tables (and perhaps drop tables since we're mentioning them) could use some revision in some areas. At the very least, I'd be thrilled if lvl 80+ monsters would stop dropping Metal Hardener....
They do. They yield materials for S grade galore. EXPENSIVE materials. They yield A grade helmet recipes you name it. Spoil is a talented craft, not a push and win button. Learn to spoil the right targets. Are you going to tell me you'd rather spoil 20 animal bone than a Draconic leather part?
In my case - yes. What am I gonna do with draconic leather? Leve those drops or spoils on mobs, and give mobs that spoil 20 bones. Right now they spoil draconic leather, and what else? Tateossian erring part? Where you get 100 SOPs and 200 steel to craft them?
In my case - yes. What am I gonna do with draconic leather?
You could sell it and buy 75 animal bone, if that's what you wanted.
Where you get 100 SOPs and 200 steel to craft them?
My friend and I use a combination of a 7x BH and the manor. Most materials come from seeds, and the key items and multimillion adena recipes come from spoils.
spoiling anything but weapon and armor enchants or B recs and blades is a waste of time
most mobs that spoil enchants do so at a reasonable rate armor more than weapon obviously.... but if im spoiling blackore parts and recs 90% of the time and eab/ewb w/ the occasional weapon or armor part in there its a heck of alot better than spoiling bone or suede
B recs and blades are good, as you hit 7x you can spoil the A recs, and the A/S key items. They're worth a lot more, on average, and the spoil rate is about as good.
BTW when we were in the 6x range, we used to like the Kranrot bridge in GC for spoiling, we got quite a lot of AOBA 100% recipes there, and those sell well on our server. It's a lot better than spoiling the jewelry parts (which never were worth too much on my server).
I agree though with the post -- there's no real need to spoil base mats at high levels. I'd rather go for the 55 mil in recipes that we can get on average in a 2 hour session than spoil bone -- we'd need to spoil over 15,000 bone per hour to equal that income.
And the high level manor can give VOP, DMP, and Mith Alloy directly, which both saves a lot of cash and saves an incredible amount of time when crafting. Most of my bone just sits in the warehouse because it's almost quicker to hunt the VOP than to craft it, honestly, and the hunting gives XP and spoils at the same time.
BH are great combined with the manor because, although the seeds remove all non-adena drops, they don't remove spoils so you can still hunt the $$$$$ spoils while also getting a lot of base mats from seeds.
BH are great combined with the manor because, although the seeds remove all non-adena drops, they don't remove spoils so you can still hunt the $$$$$ spoils while also getting a lot of base mats from seeds.
I remember reading somewhere that the timing is such now that you can't seed and spoil the same mob (Franz doesn't have a working manor yet, so I cannot check for myself). I hope I'm mistaken.
You can seed and spoil how much you want at the same time, it just take to long. Plus manoring is worth usualy a ton of times more then what the spoils are for most mobs, theres ofcorse a few mobs who's the oposit thoght.
Yeah, you can seed and spoil the same mob, of course if you're in a party, the mob needs to live long enough for both skills to land which can be hard sometimes on 1x mobs. When PleChan and I move to a new area, we usually [Censored] which monsters have good spoils (A recipes or key items) and only spoil those, while only seeding everything else; usually we only get a seed and a spoil on the same mob if Ple does spoil festival.
Some monsters are extremely worthwhile to spoil, some are mediocre. Part of being a good spoiler is knowing when to spoil and when not to, especially as barring a recharger or sitting, you're not gonna be spoiling every monster when hunting 1x mobs.
i play a bh and it is next to impossible for me to get a party outside of a few friends ive been playing with for some time theres no point in most peoples mind there okay dds but people will take a dagger over a bh any day and the mobs that spoil anything decent and any kind of decent rate are camped 24/7 by farmers botting which ncsoft is apprently unable to to anything about them cause there still everywhere point is BH need somthing to help the class better spoil/skills/ somthing that makes then usefull before 68
I have only level 1 explaining skill, so let me write it again: :)
What I mean is, that there are mobs that drop/spoil armour parts, and some other materials. Like SoP or Cr. leather or so. So, you get some Tallum leather armour piece one time, and let's say 1 crafted leather then, next time 1 SoP
1) Why 1 crafted leather? Why not 4+? Why one SoP, not 5?
2) Drops and spoils have some really strange placement. Can you imagine there are like 30 mobs that drop/spoil BO earring piece or Sealed Tallum leather armor pattern? Why not reduce the amount of mobs able to spoil/drop such key item to half, and put 15 bone spoil instead of 1 BO earring piece on some of them?
It makes no difference. The item value fluctuates with drop rate and demand. If you could farm 10x the amount of animal bone in the same time, you wouldn't earn more adena in profit...which is the baseline everything gets determined from (aka value). For this reason, it won't change the BH class at all to increase the spoil rates. Bots will get the same spoil rates as you do. Go do sineatter, pk the bots in your way (they don't fight back) and farm the spot you need. Earn yourself 5 A weapon and helmet recs, buy yourself everything you need and stop whining.
I am not whining, why do you blame everybody asking "why it is so" or suggesting some changes of whining? :(
And to whom sell BO pieces and tallum leather patterns? We got few hundreds tallum patterns in CWH, who buys them and who would buy tallum leathers anyway?
The NPCs. Why are you spoiling mobs that spoil tallum leather armor patterns instead of A helmet recipes and A weapon recipes? Stop hunting in ******ville.
Earn yourself 5 A weapon and helmet recs, buy yourself everything you need and stop whining.
Everytime I think I've seen how stupid people can be....the 'intarweb' proves me wrong.
Allow me to distall the problems of crap base material spoils down into three simple end results...
1)As base mat spoils go down and key materials replace them, base material prices start to rise. (2K A.bone? It can go higher!) Eventually key material prices will bottom out because there are no materials available to make the full items with. (And your dreaming if you think the manor can fill all that demand.)
2)Without a source of cheap materials, Shot prices remain high and lower level items remain obscenely expensive for lower level players or just plain excessively rare. No one will craft them for anything less than ungodly prices because the base material value has been raised so high.
3)With such high prices, the pressure to ebay rises, and gives a bad impression of the game and its economy, increasing the bot/RMT problem and turning potential players away from the game.
In short, unless you were on the forefront of the people who 'played the market' *cough* Extorted the ebayers and inflated the market *cough* the 'economy' offers far fewer opportunities for you and makes the game more hostile and 'not fun' for many players.
Economics....its about more than just how much money is in *your* pocket.
No, don't tell me how the CURRENT spoil rates WILL affect the market. That's BS and totally pulling the wool over people's eyes. Current rates ESTABLISH the current market. The price of animal bone is dramatically changing as is because that is it's VALUE based on drop tables, manor, and demand. I hunt for a matter of hours outside town and come back with hundreds of mats...and all of 2% progress in my level. I easily farm 10k animal bones per level because I HAVE TO HUNT SO MANY MORE MOBS. The spoil rates can't go up or you'd spoil 1 MILLION animal bones per level and totally flood the market, dropping the price on bones, the things they make, etc. No matter what, the VALUE of an item fluctuates based on the market, and increasing the drop rates isn't going to change the value per spoil. That is the fixed value to compare things on.
So don't go waving hands pretending current spoil tables WILL result in this or that. They already DO result in the current prices. So you CAN establish the value in your pocket as at a fixed level. What you can afford on the market will ALWAYS be a function of your playtime, hunting style, intelligence, luck, and possibly ebay.
Changing spoil rates will NEVER change the VALUE of your hunting. That is a complete fallacy.
-chuck useless rant-
Changing spoil rates will NEVER change the VALUE of your hunting. That is a complete fallacy.
That's complete Bee Ess. If NC suddenly makes bones spoil like water and the 'market' value drops to -0-, *every single additonal* bone will still increase the 'value' of your hunt. So long as NC doesn't change the NPC 'buy' value, that animal bone will *always* have a 'floor value'.
If anything NCsoft changed the 'rates' of spoil. Pre-60 base mats rate is constant. (Low and crappy) And post L60 they are nonexistant. AKA Zero. That is a 100% reduction in the spoil 'rate' of base materials at a point when demand for them is still rising.
Normalized against their adena value, most BH's in this thread would prefer to get more of the value of their spoils in base materials. Again no one really cares about the 'rate'. (We're used to getting the shaft from NC by now...) The form that return takes *IS* a big concern for those of us who care though.
If we were talking about Warsmith's the equiveleant behaviour would be as if once a Warsmith reached A grade, he was no longer able to Crystalize or craft any items of B grade or lower. And your argument would be that he doesn't need to because he can 'make uber money' on A/S grade crafts and can buy the lower level craft/crystals with the money he gets from the higher level crafts.