Thanks it mysthril's poll post I thought it was worth asking how much you were ready to pay to transfer one of your toons and his inventory/wh to another server.
Why limit the new services to 2...
First, if we're enough to be ready to do it, it might be a decent incentive for NC.
4k ppl putting $50 on the table is not pocket change. It could even buy new euro servers ;)
Second : we want it. We've been fooled by Devhrin and NC when Teon came out and it's about time to fix that.
I know some vocal posters will scream 'fool' but it's like that.
I'll go with it first.
I'd be ready to pay $100 per toon.
I knew you'd have positive tone to bring to the discussion.
And why not go for it now ? Personally I wouldn't mind you quitting that much. Moreover if that means xfers are coming.
But the topic is not about the techniques or garde-fous to put in place.
Just the price.
The rest has been beaten to death already ty.
Im leaning towards a yes. It doesnt matter about Scammers, they create toons just to steal stuff and xfer to their mains anyway, this wouldnt affect them at all, they will still be there, making alts to scam ppl.
Its such a cool idea to all the people who DONT scam, so stop thinking about the benifits/downfalls it would give to scammers, and start thinking about how it would be a FUN addition for people who want something like it.
I have friends on a few other servers like Franz, Devianne and Kain. Id like to visit them once in a while, maybe group with them and not have to level something up to 70 just so I can do that. Heck I wouldnt mind meeting Luke to see how an XP Group with him would go, not to mention finding out all the skills a Paladin has, there isnt a Pally I know past 50 on Teon =/
I knew you'd have positive tone to bring to the discussion.
And why not go for it now ? Personally I wouldn't mind you quitting that much. Moreover if that means xfers are coming.
But the topic is not about the techniques or garde-fous to put in place.
Just the price.
The rest has been beaten to death already ty.
That is the price. Over 1000 dollars in the past 2 years which will not be revenue in the next two. I suggest you start offering a lot more.
Are you suggesting just 1 toon or several? Only asking because I have 2 accounts with several toons and there is 3 from each I would want as they all serve a different purpose for me. If it is a cost for each toon per month it would get expensive. If not then I'd like to move but I think it should be a 1 off cost and the amount of times you can change servers to just 2 (1 to move and 1 to return back if you don't like your new choice).
I'd personally still like to see an option to move my toons between my accounts but that's just me.
If they were to implement server transfers and I was inclined to do it then $50.00. IF I absolutely hated my server I might consider $100.00 but I also might consider a different game at that point.
Also, I would say they should only allow one time server transfers.
Transfers would seriously unbalance the things as they are now. The only good reason for transfers would be when a server is near dead and is going to be abandoned by ncsoft.
Transfers would seriously unbalance the things as they are now. The only good reason for transfers would be when a server is near dead and is going to be abandoned by ncsoft.
It is to late now to start doing them.
Not that I really care one way or the other but would they?
Transfers to Franz would unbalance things, but by now the other servers have S grade players and Heroes. So I'm not sure if they really would affect things too much.
The economies are dramatically different. 1 B buys you a Baium Ring on Hinde. 2 B buys you a Baium ring on some servers. Imagine how many farmers would move that type of money and equipment between accounts. Even if it's just one transfer, what's to stop them from buying an account just for that purpose. Move 5 B adena to a more profitable server, or move gear between servers and possibly transfer 5 B into 10+ B. It would be a nightmare. No.
Presumably Franz would not be an option to move your uber TO, at this point (that would be patently unfair to those cheating on Franz atm).
As far as price for a Xfer--it's an inconvenience to others on that server that you show up. I'd like the fee to be high enough that it discouraged transfers.
Obviously NCSoft would need the rate to be high enough to make sure they didn't lose $180.00 per year for every second or third account that wasn't renewed.
I personally wouldn't pay ANY fee to transfer a toon. Nor do I think it should ever be allowed.
If it IS allowed I would expect the fee to be one-time and in the neighborhood of $200.00 or more.
Before you all start groaning, if people can pay hundreds of dollars to buy adena from outside of the game then this idea of making an X-fer fee high is no big deal.
If it was me, I'd put the price at $500.00 cause I know a bunch players would pay that.
I would also say that you could only move a couple toons at most and that a toon could never be moved twice.
Overall I think this is a stupid idea though apparently others just love it.
If it's being implemented at any point in the future I'd like to see the price REALLY high.
If you want a toon that's uber on another server--make one.
The economies are dramatically different. 1 B buys you a Baium Ring on Hinde. 2 B buys you a Baium ring on some servers. Imagine how many farmers would move that type of money and equipment between accounts. Even if it's just one transfer, what's to stop them from buying an account just for that purpose. Move 5 B adena to a more profitable server, or move gear between servers and possibly transfer 5 B into 10+ B. It would be a nightmare. No.
That's a good point, I forgot about the different economies.
economy is allready screwed, Franz is at the hands of cheaters and other servers are all balanced in terms of power so this feature wouldn't break anything that isn't allready broken and fullfill a request that has been ask for too long now.
I'm all for it, and i'd pay for it..
atm i'm not playing on kain anymore, and asking myself is Franz is worth playing with all those cheaters = the game is not the same.
how i would care if players buys baium rings for 1B instead of 2B... somehow i don't feel concerned with this !
but i feel concerned having my toons i played for 2 years on a server that is on my timezone so that i don't have to get up in the middle of the night to siege or enjoy special events.
That beeing said, you can keep on claiming how bad it is for the community, the servers, etc... as for me, i am PART of the community just like you and i'm definitely FOR this feature.
Server transfer... it's been done.
Name changes due to other issues than bad name... it's been done.
Don't ask details.
Now whether to make it available to the masses or not? Many people will quit and many people will come back to play. It's just a mind set. People get used to the way things are now and things hey that's the way it should be. But add new rules and people will adapt. It's like a speed limit being changed from 55 to 65. Many will oppose and many will say ok. When the law changes and says speed limit ok at 65 then people adapt. Drive at 65 or get run over.
I will not move servers, im happy where i am and on top of that, if they where to charge 100$ per transfer, thats just way to expensive for me to even consider.
What i want is to be able to move A TOON FROM ONE ACCOUNT TO ANOTHER or to a new one.
Now that i would pay. 20$ a pop and 35$ if its to a new account. (admin fees n what not :D )
The servers aren't overloaded to the point something like this needs to be done. Really thats the only reason it should have to be done.
How about euros playing on NA time servers ?
QFE
Europeans have been playing on the USA servers since Prelude too, putting up with 1am Sieges for well over a year before Teon was made, even then, people didnt want to quit their HARD EARNED character to make a new one all over again. I did, but ive still got a Lv 60 on Devianne that I would have much rather just transferred.
Well for players like me who take this as only a game(Weird as that may sound to some.) Players spending money to move around I could easily be left behind. No way would I pay anything to move my character. Next thing I know im on Hindemith with 3 other players discussing what other games are out there. I think its a bit extreme when people are willing to pay $100+ Just to move a character. But its up to each individual player what would happen if NC allowed this. At that point I would just be along for the ride. But only until I found something better.
Honestly, server transfers first came up after prelude when the other servers started coming online. And when that didn't happen, people who honestly wanted to move off of Bartz just started from scratch. That was 2 years ago, why suddenly do it now if you could? If you've been playing on a server you didn't like, that's your own fault.
With Franz, however, I can see why people would want to move there. But the fact remains that it would unbalance the server (moreso than has been done already). The economies on each server are mostly unique to that server based upon the strifes and struggles that have been occuring since their inception. So I'd have to disagree with any type of server transfer now. It was brought up 2 years ago, never happened; hinted at with each chronicle release, never happened; desperately wanted with the opening of Teon, never happened. Why should this be any different?
What's to stop a warsmith to bring readily available items from one server to another that doesn't have those items available and affect the market for profit? What about Heroes moving? PK'ers? Entire alliances to dominate the server?
Too little too late. Maybe if this wasn't 2+ years after we started asking for server transfers.
There are a variety of reasons to move to another server, people already mentioned the Euro timezone servers. But how about a server, which you have played on for over a year that is now inhospitable to you? There are many servers where the population is low, and yes people would jump ship and make it even lower, to the point where NcSOft needs to either start advertising and seriously working to get more players, or simply closing and consolidating servers.
This doesn't even mention the people that are just sick of the political structure of a given server. This point can be debated either way, but the case can be argued.
As for money, etc.. that is simple, look to WoW. You can pay a small fee for your toon to be transfered to one of a certain selection of servers (in l2's case franz would be dissalowed) and you can only take x amount of money with you. This means you can pay say.. $25 to move a toon, but you can't take more than say.. 200 mil + your equip. Personal WH is removed, and you can't be in a clan (so no clan wh obviously). Once you meet those requirements you can transfer. This transfer will take say 2-7 days, and cannot do more than one trasnfer per plaync account (no matter how many l2 accounts are in it) per 6 months. This will prevent "server hops", and will keep any adena bosses from farming/buying adena on cheaper servers to sell in bulk on more expensive servers.
This also keeps the amount of equipment/materials being driven to any server to be resold for more down to almost nothing.
I'm so tired of worrying what the botter/ebayer will do when services and quests are being offered. Worrying about them makes me unable to enjoy the game. I'm certain they affect me in one way or another but I just want to be able to have services that I can use and enjoy. In life the crooks and straights all enjoy electricity, running water, food at restaurants, cars, horses, a walk on the beach, etc. I'll just worry about me.
the only way transfers would be good is if they were instant. That way... a clan could potentially own all the castles on all the servers at the same time.
Is everyone assuming that all transfers would be done on the same day at the same time? Oh, and to the same server?
Come on
How many people have you known that left for a while (keeping their stuff) to come back to L2? Suddenly there is a "new" player on the server with all kinds of stuff everyone else might not have! oh noes! We should stop them from coming back because it could really make the economy go bonkers!
What are the "hot" items in the market this week? Things change. What were the "hot" items on the server last week? Things change. What if Im holding tons of the next "hot" item? Im hoping things change.
I am not for server transfers, but more importantly in MY view, Im not against it either. Its a game that changes daily, in the market, bi-weekly with the castles (sometimes) and most dramatically with the chronicles! I can adapt to change, but Im dead set against people telling me how to play my game. Even if they paid the fees.
And to the OP, I would be willing to pay $0. My $30 a month is enough already.
Sony charges $50 a character, no tradeable gear comes with you, and you can't transfer to a server thats less than six months old. It's done often, as people make friends on other servers through the forums and wish to join them. There is a ton of money to be had by offering a service like this.
Hehe.. yeah, trasnferring any toon worth trasnfering to another server and being unable to take any gear or money is just begging them to use "non sanctioned" methods of obtaining money... since it's not like they can go to some lowbie areas where they can kill things naked and hope to make enough money to regear. Hence why you set a lmit on what can be moved... that way people can move anything more than that to other chars on their old server, and move their toon to a new server with whatever is allowed.
I'm against it. Everyone has pretty much heard all that can be said about the main reasons against it so I don't want to go through all of them. My big one is that if you were too lazy to start over on a new server 1.5-2 years ago then why is now so special.
Also we've seen how the test server transfers worked so I'd assume it would end up the same way. Personally I wouldn't swap servers because I really don't have a lot of friends on any server. And at noblesse you need friends to help out/siege/hero I just don't see how having a thousand or so people jumping ship helps anyone.
Hillarious and so very sad because the most of the people that transfered did it because there wouldn't be cheating.. LOL:
that would be patently unfair to those cheating on Franz atm)
I'm against it. Everyone has pretty much heard all that can be said about the main reasons against it so I don't want to go through all of them. My big one is that if you were too lazy to start over on a new server 1.5-2 years ago then why is now so special.
because now the game is getting old and i, for sure, won't give L2 2 more years as active as i've been. L2 will be out of the window before i make it back to what i have on kain... and i've not experienced noblesse yet (so close but still so far)...
So Franz at least should be an exception and europeans who don't cheat are indeed wanting to transfer there (all my clannies want it for example.. no exception)
Well, many people wanted to transfer even 1.5-2 years ago. and were too lazy to "reroll" there because levelling in l2 is no easy task. And why would now NOT be an exception? It's one thing to be too lazy to reroll at under 52, it's another to not want to lose an a grade or higher toon (with gear), let alone one with a subclass/3rd class/noblesse.
And while you may not have a lot of friends on any server, some people have friends they have made on other servers via various means. In addition to that,s ome servers are just in a pitiful state in terms of population regardless, so friends may have nothing to do with it.. and you can say transfers will only hurt those servers more, I agree.. but there are not many new people coming to l2 at all. and those that do mostly go to the higher populated servers.. which means the lesser ones will continue to atrophy in general.. meaning people with toons they have put a LOT of time and effort into (and many who have sunk considerable amounts of r/l money into) are left stranded on a sinking ship of a server.
Their options? Stay on an increasingly deserted server, call it quits and find a new game, or abandon all their work and try and start over another server.
I can tell you, the people who have worked this long and hard to get one toon up to a respectable level will not likely choose one of the options that still brings ncsoft money.
Server transfers to a new server should not be allowed, period. Even for Euro players on NA servers, they will have teon to choose, or they will have to wait for franz to mature.
Um i would pay the same amount that wow charged for people to move servers. its sad how far behind ncsoft is.
But anyways for all you carebear kids that like to kill mobs all day and never pvp and roleplay don't switch server its not like people are forcing you.
But think how fun L2 would be if you get all the major pvp clans from all the servers onto one server. thats about the only thing that would make l2 worth playing for people that play this game for what it was made for. which is pvp
everyone else can stick to your #killingmobs and crying about botters and farmers and not be bothered by the pvpers.
I would love to transfer a character from my old server to the new one. I'd pay $50 to do it. And Elro, I understand what you meant, but progressive is the wrong word for it.
Taken from dictionary.com
Progressive:
–adjective
1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.
2. making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.
3. characterized by such progress, or by continuous improvement.
So not changing the system cannot possibly progressive, but I assume you meant it in its positive connotation. For that I would have just said "better". And it is only your opinion anyways, taging it as "progressive" just confuses your meaning and adds a more official and un-opinion like feel.
Being one of the only modern MMOs to simply say no to server transfers on principle (since it causes far more problems than it is worth) is progressive.
Being one of the only modern MMOs to simply say no to server transfers on principle (since it causes far more problems than it is worth) is progressive.
Kind of an off the wall way to look at it, but that is true.
Affirmative action creates an uneven playing field in a job interview to level the playing field across races. And that is progressive...the concept is far more than simply "doing something new," it is about doing things better. If progressive simply meant "new" then stripping your gear once a month would be "progressive." Doesn't seem off the wall at all.
It is off the wall merely because most people don't think that deeply about such a concept. And here to think you accused me of thinking too much AND being a hippie. (Both of which are right, nonetheless >.>)
Affirmative action creates an uneven playing field in a job interview to level the playing field across races. And that is progressive...the concept is far more than simply "doing something new," it is about doing things better. If progressive simply meant "new" then stripping your gear once a month would be "progressive." Doesn't seem off the wall at all.
The word you are looking for is "innovative". Progressive doesn't simply mean "new" It means to Progress, it is tied to the root of Change as if there is a destination that is better than the start. If something doesn't change it cannot be progressive, it defeats the definition of the word. This game as a whole IS progressive as it has been shown with each chronicle, but the concept of no server changes as a cornerstone of thier policy could be either considered innovative or a hinderance depending who you talk to.
Edit: Now I think about it Innovative is still the wrong word. The no transfer policy is not a new thing to games. It can be easily be just called a policy with no adjectives attached. You can either view it as good or bad. The policy can not be considered Innovative or progressive all the same.
I for one would really like to have server transfers of characters. This would be a lot better than having to start over on a server and have to grind up to where my friends are all at.
I would be willing to pay for this servcie .. 25-30 dollars.
I hope that NCSoft will at least look at this issue again and allow the players to make a choice instead of starting over with nothing on a new server that they wish to play on.
what sense does it make to go transfer to another server with absolutely nothing???
I worked very hard for the stuff that I have on my characters and believe that if I have the ability to transfer I should be able to take my gear and adena with me.
If I go there at a high level with nothing why would I want to transfer to have my friends lend me gear that they bought until I can afford to get something. That would really not be a intelligent decision when considering server transfers.
what sense does it make to go transfer to another server with absolutely nothing???
And if I had just started on .. let's say Franz.. with a level 1 toon with nothing, I'd quit if you got to bring your epic jewels, s grade armor, weapon, and gabillion adena with you.
what sense does it make to go transfer to another server with absolutely nothing???
Levels aren't "absolutely nothing".
The economies are probably what is the most diverse between the servers - just as a frame of reference, on Lionna now, the manoring money opportunities for newbies are about a fifth of what they were only four weeks ago.
On other servers, the situation is worse.
How fair would it be for me to level up on a server with well-run manor and over-inflated base-mats, only to bring my easily earned gear and cash to a server with over-inflated fulls and bad manor? Not very fair at all - I wouldn't have worked for it nearly as hard as any of the people already playing on the server.
I understand both of your points and to be honest I wasnt even thinking about Franz..
In my case at least I would like to do it is so I can play with friends that are on that other. No other reason. Just dont (but have) to had started a new character on that server in order to try to get up to their respective levels to group and what have you.
Now on the Franz issue, that is very simply you would not allow server transfers onto a new server. It would have to be from a established to another established server,, Franz was set up to accomidate euro players and as it seems has become a place (from what I gather) to get a new start..
Now the economy question,, I dont really believe that there is a good answer to that or at least one that I can think of at this time,, people will always find away to get ahead or con the system which is a shame for those of us that are legit players and have legit reasons to what to transfer..
That would simply even out pretty quickly. Not allowing gear transfer would just mean more power to the illegit services.
It should have be troublesome to move so people don't just jump back and forth between servers. And they should swap the whole character group to the new servers, not just one character.
No, it wouldn't at all. A bunch of naked 77s will never farm S grade, and there are no bots to do it for them. There isn't enough adena on the server to even price those items. It would completely break the growing economy, and L2 has a very vibrant, HEALTHY economy.
He means to say people would ebay for their gear if they had to swap naked - I guess.
How can you buy items for your lvl 76 that don't exist on the server? The economy has to grow...adena has to drop...right now there isn't enough adena on the server to properly value the first sets of S grade.
All economies can suffer in a similar manner. Moving items to and from servers "en masse" takes control away from drop rates and puts it entirely into the hands of farmers. Right now adena vs drop rate vs demand governs price. If this happens, farmers will be able to readily move items to create demand. No matter what the drop rate of bones is on your server, farmers can move them away so that demand skyrockets as does the price. This applies to full items, mats, anything. A smart farmer with 1 B could collapse entire economies.
We aren't talking about hoarding and selling, we are talking about destroying product to create artificial demand. And the sick part is, the destruction of product is incomplete...it just ships across markets to sell somewhere else just as easy. The large servers have everything to gain. The small servers have everything to lose.
lol, you're way overexaggerating the dangers of this, other games with similar economies have survived years and years with servertransfers without problems.
Farmer X might pay 30 bucks to go from Server A->B, but at the same time Farmer Y might pay 30 buchs to go from Server B->A. Regular players will be going back and forth, and in no way will it make some sort of mess, hell ALL servers easily survived huge itemgiving events.
lol, you're way overexaggerating the dangers of this, other games with similar economies have survived years and years with servertransfers without problems.
Farmer X might pay 30 bucks to go from Server A->B, but at the same time Farmer Y might pay 30 buchs to go from Server B->A. Regular players will be going back and forth, and in no way will it make some sort of mess, hell ALL servers easily survived huge itemgiving events.
You're really overstating the "dangers".
And then you apply epic jewelry and the likes to this equation. It's not exaggerated in the least. That's only the beginning of problems as well. A player has to level up on your server. If a lvl 76 just appears out of nowhere in full S grade, you know why. Player history and tracking cheaters is a big deal to many players and clans. Server transfers are no different from name changes in this respect. Scam like crazy, bot, manipulate people and take gear, then just hop on a new server. There are lots of arguments to be made against such a thing, and more of the population is stronly against it than those that are for it.
They are getting ++++ postcount , not overexaggerating.
Seriously +++postcounts means nothing. You can still get lots of postcounts if post random craps in the forum over a long period of time. Quality posts are the ones that matters not the quantity. :p
No problem with server transfers. If i had a friend on my friend list or had someone who was in my clan id like to know what server they moved to. Extra tool bar or a gui to pop up and say where they went.
Sorry I dare to ask, but ... does something like 'reputation' mean anything now? Does anybody even care? :(
The few who do care about reputation are very vocal about it.
From reading these boards you'd think the game community was pretty hard on cheaters.
Actually playing the game tells a very different story.
They are getting ++++ postcount , not overexaggerating.
Seriously +++postcounts means nothing. You can still get lots of postcounts if post random craps in the forum over a long period of time. Quality posts are the ones that matters not the quantity. :p
Mods cleared their spam.They have quoted same post few times in a row.QFE should not be taken literaly.