Pattk vs Pattk Speed Question.

This question relates to a Gladiator with duals, but im sure it can be applicable to most any melee class.
Does anyone know the actual value of Pattk Speed? Im trying to figure something out and Im missing a variable.

For instance, what is better
A) Pattk 784 with Patk Speed of 504
or...
B) Pattk 680 with Patk Speed of 524?

Assuming Patk Speed is a fixed number, If B is better than A, how much higher Patk does A need to equal B?

I'd choose B over A...always.

Unless you say A has added focus ability.

The difference in p.attack is big enough to more than compensate for the 20 att. speed loss. I would certainly choose option A.

Well, I'd rather shoot fast and get 1 extra hit before getting killed. Certainly as a melee.

More attack speed is more crits which does the best damage.

A. Most definately. Think about the dps. A has a 1/8 damage advantage over B, with a decrease of 1/26 speed over B.

Not only that, but with setup A, every 7 hits would equal 8 from B, or 6 hits + a crit from B. And with speed in mind, you would still need to hit 19 more times in a row to get an extra hit in when comparing the attack speed ratio on both setups. What does this mean?

Setup A = 4 extra hits worth of damage when setup would = 1 extra swing/ arrow.

How does this effect critting? Setup A's damage is constant, while you can possibly do one extra crit per 26 swings/ arrow with setup B. Even if you do get a crit on every extra swing, it would still be one regular hit's worth of damage short of comparing to the DPS of setup A.

::edit::

I forgot to factor in the fact that you do 1/8 less damage per swing.... and that by the time you get to the extra swing... the damage would be this so far.

A = 20384
B = 17680

Now... the extra hit is going to add 680... making it 18360 damage. What does this mean? That in order for setup B to be better than A... the extra hit not only has to be a guaranteed crit, but it would have be for 5x the amount of damage of a regular hit to compare to setup A.

Normally I would chose crit rate + crit power + speed over base damage, but judging by these stats alone I would have to chose A.

I know I used rounded numbers and naked stats for the example... but it all comes to the same conclusion in game.

It is by this logic that people use Soul Bows.

I found very little logic in using a Soul Bow, besides the fact there are many grey people out there.

I found very little logic in using a Soul Bow

Obviously. You didn't think it through. Unless your name is Stephen Colbert, working from your gut doesn't make you right.

I found very little logic in using a Soul Bow

Obviously. You didn't think it through.



Ofcourse.

hmm atk speed is only usefull if your P.atk is high
other i rater go for higher P.atk then speed,,
people clam speed=more DPS but they forget the fact you also have higher change in a miss =)
so cost/kill
higher Critical rate duels with highest P.atk instant of faster duels for less damage see why
1 CRITICAL rate for duels count alwas first
2 P.atk
3 last speed do you realy get more happy if you have a atk speed of 1000 when you do 10 damage or do 1000 damage with 10 hits :) i rater do 10 hits for 1000 damage meaning cost are considerable lower
also keep in mind you can use pods to boost speed but you cant for P.atk or critical rate =D so Kes*Kes is [censored] weapon best duels are SLS*Tsu or Tsu*Tsu your damage output is insane
thats why no A duels exist with focus ability or S duels with focus ability sinds focus is the key

ahhh one of my favorite parts of the game, figuring max dps.

So, in the end it is about max dps.

You can have 8% higher attack speed
You can have 52-76 crit bonus

these are the only two things that should be considered. Since crits equal 3x or more than a normal attack crit bonus is probably always going to be best. The end goal for any melee is to crit as often and as fast as possible.

I found very little logic in using a Soul Bow, besides the fact there are many grey people out there.

if you aren't 76 and don't have a drac focus, then there is a lot of sense in using a soul bow.

A: more 15% p.attack than B
B: more 4% a.speed than A
its simple.
Ignoring any weapon bonuses:
Option A will do more dmg over time, but attack speed can be good to use ur skills faster.

Now about the Bows, dont forget that QR SA will reduce the weapon delay(red bar: for p.skills or arrow shoting). meaning that u have to wait less to shot another arrow.. even taking longer to shot the arrow(very slow bows)
u will be able to wait less to shot again... this is a great advantage aganist non QR bows. so u cant compare only p.attack and a.speed on bows

not to say the uglyness of soul bow OMG ugly
many A weapons are a lot more ugly kind of overkill
there is only a few weapons that realy looks good in A
soul sep,DLE,halberd
like the soul bow ??? a thing like that is realy more D so useless big and UGLY and dont even get me started with SOM (NO,NO,NO) keep it out of my mind lol

not to say the uglyness of soul bow OMG ugly
many A weapons are a lot more ugly kind of overkill
there is only a few weapons that realy looks good in A
soul sep,DLE,halberd
like the soul bow ??? a thing like that is realy more D so useless big and UGLY and dont even get me started with SOM (NO,NO,NO) keep it out of my mind lol

QFT. Eminence and Bow of Peril are way better.

I think soul bow looks pretty good, carnage looks good, drac looks TOO good, emi is ugly as hell.

I think soul bow looks pretty good, carnage looks good, drac looks TOO good, emi is ugly as hell.

You like it or you hate it, but I do agree with you that Draconic is just too good looking.

I once saw a photoshopped black dragonic bow used in a forum sig. It was just sick u cant imagine how cool it was.
Blck dragonic bow owns...

Drac looks good ????
if you say so i sometimes wonder if the designer made a mistake for a sword LOL no please if a bow in real life like that existed you need 10 people to carry it and dont even say to AIM with it o.0 best looking bow i personaly find is a dark elven bow

ever heard of light alloys where big objects can actually be much lighter then the darker DE bow?

well most time Weight bepands on mass
so yeah if you carry a much alloy but it's light but 10x factor of something heavy it realy dont matter + rater carry something small and heavy then light but BIG

Then a Short bow should be the best bow? Cause it is small, 1-handed and light?

Dont get me wrong, I understand your point, but just doesnt make sense in a game.

very little people consider missing while attacking..

The more hits you can get in the more likely your going to get more hits in period which means more likely your going to do more damage.

And to increase dex, increases many variables that are worth every AA.

it's all about crits.

very little people consider missing while attacking..

The more hits you can get in the more likely your going to get more hits in period which means more likely your going to do more damage.

And to increase dex, increases many variables that are worth every AA.

talking about DD's dex is only good for SR's and daggers. 1 point in accuracy, 1 evasion 4 crit rate points and 20 attack speed is LOL when comparing to 10% added damage on regular shots and 25-30% on crits (he pr)

rating dex over str is silly

dex add more then only that
it gives run speed,atk speed,accuracy,critical rate,evasion,& shield defence rate
i most likely find dex most inportant static of all 3 con-dex-str
even if you are a tank i most likely add more dex from con to dex sinds it calculated so many factors str only count for P.atk nothing more

Precisely abisha,

With +5 dex over +5str, my dmg/patk may be be significantly lower. But my critical chance (even if it's a few points) is exceptionally real world results, much higher, not to mention i'm hitting more often. Plus i'm getting hit less often and hitting more often then missing vs higher lvl mobs.

Combine that with a BD having a bow, so they can get off a few range shots, and the +5dex REALLY shows it's power when nearly every 3 shots is a gauranteed critical @ 2000patk and 380+ critical, your critically hitting for more dmg vs a SR 10 lvls higher.

Thers an easy way to count the damage like this.

A: 784*504 = 395136
B: 680*524 = 356320
Difference: A give 10% more damage then B.


Both P.atk and Atk speed is liniar so. example 300 atk speed and hten 600 atk speed you hit twice as much at 600, same goes for P.atk 300 vs 600 so both is worth as much.

Add in the equation, 30% chance of missing with A and and only 10% missing with B.... then do the math

This is a bit trickier than some of the comments indicate. Let's assume as a melee you have a choice of 10%+ pattack or 10%+ attack speed. Which is better? No question: attack speed. Why? Because pattack will only make all hits 10% stronger (won't be even that much for specials), which 10% faster hits at least equals (10 hits at 11 damage = 110 damage; 11 hits at 10 damage = 110 damage). However, more hits also gives you the following "extras": (1) more chances to interrupt a caster; (2) more chances to crit; and (3) faster skill reuse speed. Pattack helps on none of those. Thus, if the % amounts are identical, attack speed wins hands down. However, when you alter the %'s, such as 10% pattack verses 5% attack speed, it all gets real iffy, because you have to weigh those three "extra" factors and see if you think they beat the 5% differential. That is not an easy question to answer. Also, the corresponding analysis for mages re cast speed and mattack is similar, but there I think mattack has edges that don't exist for melees. For example, mattack helps all debuffs and spells such as sleep and paralyze land, and thus it has "extras" that pattack for melees does not possess.

Add in the equation, 30% chance of missing with A and and only 10% missing with B.... then do the math

You mean vecause B has 1 more accuracy point?

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f32/mishkyn/armorstats.jpg

Please leave crits out of the PAtk vs. ASpeed arguement, that's faulty thinking, as much as saying: "Duals crit more, so they have higher DPS than two-hand swords."

If you have 10% more attack speed, you have 10% more chances to crit. If you have 10% more PAtk, you will do 10% more damage for every crit. It evens out completely.

Faster skill reset time is indeed an arguement - but it's only relevant for PvP, and then only partially, as in PvE the limiting factor on your skills is your MP, and in PvP, the limiting factor for a melee's skills are often their ability to actually catch a target (which is the only reason I'd personally put on a DEX tat).

DEX has more extras - on a whole, the only ones among those that are really noticable are run- and swing/shot-speed. Critical rate is nearly uninfluenced, accuracy and evasion are of interest only to archers and daggers, and then only within limits.

There are a few other factors when deciding on dyes - the more masteries you have, the less STR tats do for you (a STR tat will add considerably less damage % to an archer than to, say, a dwarf wearing a sword), and the more attractive DEX becomes.

If you're a mystic class, missing people suddenly becomes relevant, and once again, DEX gains an edge it didn't have before.

On a whole, for flat PvE DPS, STR almost always pulls out on top.

Another thing to think about in PVP, higher P.atk and slower atk speed helps a ton on running targets. Becose you will hit for about amonth of times, but you hit a LOT harder.

Please leave crits out of the PAtk vs. ASpeed arguement, that's faulty thinking, as much as saying: "Duals crit more, so they have higher DPS than two-hand swords."

If you have 10% more attack speed, you have 10% more chances to crit. If you have 10% more PAtk, you will do 10% more damage for every crit. It evens out completely.

Faster skill reset time is indeed an arguement - but it's only relevant for PvP, and then only partially, as in PvE the limiting factor on your skills is your MP, and in PvP, the limiting factor for a melee's skills are often their ability to actually catch a target (which is the only reason I'd personally put on a DEX tat).

DEX has more extras - on a whole, the only ones among those that are really noticable are run- and swing/shot-speed. Critical rate is nearly uninfluenced, accuracy and evasion are of interest only to archers and daggers, and then only within limits.

There are a few other factors when deciding on dyes - the more masteries you have, the less STR tats do for you (a STR tat will add considerably less damage % to an archer than to, say, a dwarf wearing a sword), and the more attractive DEX becomes.

If you're a mystic class, missing people suddenly becomes relevant, and once again, DEX gains an edge it didn't have before.

On a whole, for flat PvE DPS, STR almost always pulls out on top.

rather should say in terms of importance:

1. crit rate
the rest doesn't matter.

Well i am 76 gladie and i would have to say attack spd is ever thing for an gladie.Just to keep Duelers spirt up 24/7 is nice i have +5dex and +4str and tallum set i have 701 attack spd and 1463 attack power with warcry. Crite duels are nice whe you are in big partys with both bd and sws you offtely crit and for huge amoutns but with faster attack spd u hit more offten and your basic buffs renew 20secs faster with haste duels then with out. But if u party an lot with an sws go crit duels if u party an lot with bd get haste duels. Haste duels are nice when in an dou with se or pp or any type of buffer. Crit duels are nice so are haste just on ya play if u get doom heavy get crit duels if u get bw get haste duels. evere gladie should get +5dex just for more accurys and 5more crit rate and 30 some odd more attack spd you get and more attack spd faster u charg up and that really helps when u have 7charges well thats my 2 cents

Sharpies got that same tato setup as i do.. and says it all...

More attack speed is more crits which does the best damage.

lol

Add in the equation, 30% chance of missing with A and and only 10% missing with B.... then do the math

where on earth did someone say that option a had 30% chance to miss ?

desperately trying to convince people that attack speed is better by using some non existant number samples ?

I prefer patk to attack speed.

It's because I'm cheap and like to feel like I'm using less shots.

Add in the equation, 30% chance of missing with A and and only 10% missing with B.... then do the math

where on earth did someone say that option a had 30% chance to miss ?

desperately trying to convince people that attack speed is better by using some non existant number samples ?



I don't know the exact numbers, but if you have the same accuracy as the mob or player your attacking, you have a fairly good chance of missing, anything lower even a fraction lower, is a huge difference between missing 50% of the time to 10% of the time.

Dance of inspiration is quite an effective tool, alot of people dismiss it and i don't get why because with guidance and inspiration, a player 10 lvls higher then you, specially a dagger let alone a dagger with ultimate evasion is going to have a harder time dodging your hits.

My gaud, going from 103accuracy to 104 made a huge difference in fighting some mobs, going from missing pretty much every shot to getting in at least 1 hit every other time.

Yes it was a made up number, but based on what i've seen roughly (rough estimated percentage)...

I'm a dwarf, got lowst accurezy ingame for meele class, I use duals, and I pretty much never miss mobs, thers only some moments I do miss them a ton thoght that is either.

Dark Red.

Or mobs who have insane evasion, thers a few of them, but not many, plus miss rate is usualy not more then 20 %.

I yet have to see a mob I miss 50% of the time. Except who's insane much higher lv then me, and just stupid hunting thoes.

If you were hunting in VoS at lvl 60-65 you would miss about 50% of the time.

lvl 64, hunting in VoS, with a bow because i'm terribly unlucky enchanting duals...

Insperation would guarantee me hitting the mobs, without it i had no hope in hell of every hitting them, i'd go as far as to say 20 minutes of straight attacking and i'd probably miss 95% of the time there.

Try being lvl 64 and being attacked by hero's, attacking back is fruitless without good acuracy, even with duals (i'm a bd) i couldn't seem to hit the broadside of a barn. It gets a hell of alot better the more you lvl, but without the DEX, i wouldn't even be able to bother, i'd just be dancing and then waiting 2 minutes.

and this is why hawkeyes are awesome.

and this is why hawkeyes are awesome.

Still not taking her to VoS to lvl...

yea I had to have full buffs + g.might+PoFire to level at vos :s

Sharpies got that same tato setup as i do.. and says it all...

I have same tattoo setup as a 75 BD. And I even went kesh*lesh+8 for duals for speedy damage. I find altohugh I dont crit a smuch as I did with +10 tsu*sls, my overall damage is better with my kesh

yea I had to have full buffs + g.might+PoFire to level at vos :s

If you got all those buffs, why still consider VoS a lvlspot? I'm sure you could do some other region much better.

Sharpies got that same tato setup as i do.. and says it all...

I have same tattoo setup as a 75 BD. And I even went kesh*lesh+8 for duals for speedy damage. I find altohugh I dont crit a smuch as I did with +10 tsu*sls, my overall damage is better with my kesh



+5 dex? i've managed to critically hit quite often, however the difference going from a tallum heavy set to a BW Set (-3 dex +5dex similare to +2 dex) the negative 3 dex my criticals are so insanely lower. It's kinda crappy that tallum set i could crit with a bow about 1 in 3 shots gauranteed, and i've even managed to crit 10+ shots in a row, BW set, i'm lucky to crit at all.

yea I had to have full buffs + g.might+PoFire to level at vos :s

If you got all those buffs, why still consider VoS a lvlspot? I'm sure you could do some other region much better.



I did vos at 64->68.

Sharpies got that same tato setup as i do.. and says it all...

I have same tattoo setup as a 75 BD. And I even went kesh*lesh+8 for duals for speedy damage. I find altohugh I dont crit a smuch as I did with +10 tsu*sls, my overall damage is better with my kesh



+5 dex? i've managed to critically hit quite often, however the difference going from a tallum heavy set to a BW Set (-3 dex +5dex similare to +2 dex) the negative 3 dex my criticals are so insanely lower. It's kinda crappy that tallum set i could crit with a bow about 1 in 3 shots gauranteed, and i've even managed to crit 10+ shots in a row, BW set, i'm lucky to crit at all.



Im in Tallum, sorry if I didnt post that quite accurately. I dont think Kesh woulda been worth it to me if I didnt go tallum for that extra speed boost.

it might sounds silly but i use DC light on my BD i can tank preaty well i mean VR can but still

melee damage is pretty awkward. There is like a +/- 5% damage randomizer thrown into the equation. Also 10% more patk doesn't mean 10% more damage. I don't think the argument is as simple as some of you are making it out to be.

The way I look at it, as a Gladiator who PvPs a lot I would go +attack speed without a second thought. If you are more into PvE (which most probably are) p attack might be where it's at.

and this is why hawkeyes are awesome.

Still not taking her to VoS to lvl...



why? Vos is the best xp ig for a hawkeye.

and this is why hawkeyes are awesome.

Still not taking her to VoS to lvl...



why? Vos is the best xp ig for a hawkeye.



Cause Ultimate Evasion mobs who nuke hard don't go very well with an archer.

Sharpies got that same tato setup as i do.. and says it all...

I have same tattoo setup as a 75 BD. And I even went kesh*lesh+8 for duals for speedy damage. I find altohugh I dont crit a smuch as I did with +10 tsu*sls, my overall damage is better with my kesh



+5 dex? i've managed to critically hit quite often, however the difference going from a tallum heavy set to a BW Set (-3 dex +5dex similare to +2 dex) the negative 3 dex my criticals are so insanely lower. It's kinda crappy that tallum set i could crit with a bow about 1 in 3 shots gauranteed, and i've even managed to crit 10+ shots in a row, BW set, i'm lucky to crit at all.



You're telling us 3 dex makes you go from almost no crit chance to around 33%? Wow I didn't realize it made such a difference, here I thought 3 dex was closer to 3% improvement not 33%... :eek:

3 DEX is not even 1% in crit rate, sure it may result in 3% higher number hten befor but, the actuall crit rate is

number / 1000, if you attack up front back it's a bit higher chans to crit.

so eg 100 crit rate = 10% chans to crit, 1 DEX usualy add 3 or so, so 100 + 3 = 10,3% crit chans.

and this is why hawkeyes are awesome.

Still not taking her to VoS to lvl...



why? Vos is the best xp ig for a hawkeye.



Cause Ultimate Evasion mobs who nuke hard don't go very well with an archer.



Mobs don't UE all the time, and they could UE how much they wanted to, it's not a problem for a hawkeye with 120 accuracy. And oh well I was able to level there with my PR and do around 10% an hour, some ppl prefer bad xp but easy mobs.