with the economy the way it is?
I started about a month and a half ago and if it hadn't have been for my clan, i would have quit by now. If i was unlucky enough to join a clan that couldnt afford me a set of d and c grade, I couldn't have functioned in the game. I realize the game has been around a long time and bots have inflated the economy and what not. It still doesn't change the fact that a new player CANNOT make it in L2 without someone helping with gear. In a game wear gear is everything and SS are almost a neccesity, it seems ludacris for ncsoft to expect a new player to make it on his or her own without a money machine. There needs to be changes if ncsoft can ever realistically hope of bringing in new players.
It's a Korean game, the player base in Korea and other asian countries work together to get stuff done. If the NA market played the game the way the Korean market does it would probably make a bit more sense.
with the economy the way it is?
I started about a month and a half ago and if it hadn't have been for my clan, i would have quit by now. If i was unlucky enough to join a clan that couldnt afford me a set of d and c grade, I couldn't have functioned in the game. I realize the game has been around a long time and bots have inflated the economy and what not. It still doesn't change the fact that a new player CANNOT make it in L2 without someone helping with gear. In a game wear gear is everything and SS are almost a neccesity, it seems ludacris for ncsoft to expect a new player to make it on his or her own without a money machine. There needs to be changes if ncsoft can ever realistically hope of bringing in new players.
You answered your own question. What would you have them change?
.5 M is cheaper than many D armor sets...and most clans will get it for you if you join their academy. The economy is 10x better for new players than it used to be. Many players are simply spoiled and do not understand that you can hunt without soulshots, you can hunt without the top weapon of your grade, and you do not need complete armor sets constantly.
There were no D armor "sets" easily accessible during Prelude. There were no weapon SA's for C grade, and many players were using NG weapons well into the 30s...and D grade weapons well into the 40s. You have it better than ever and come [censored] about it. Shove it.
People are used to games where you can just go out, hunt, and keep doing that, always finding themselves in the right gear for their level. L2 was a game, in its early days, where this was not quite possible - it was required to hunt with alts sharing the same gear, without shots, or similar, to get by on money.
Nowadays, you still will not be able to support yourself without selling and buying, questing, alts, crafting for profit, manoring, or some other activity for your pocketbook.
The problem isn't with the game, it's with the expectation that money should fall in your lap as you fight.
I find gearing myself an interesting challenge that keeps the game young for me.
The problem isn't with the game, it's with the expectation that money should fall in your lap as you fight.
QFT
If I hadn't come from several years worth of MMO experience I would feel like the OP, but really money is much easier to come by in this game than some others in relation to the price of gear. I'm BD44 with no alts and I leveled into full FP and raid+raid at 40. I already have most of my BW set. I've gotten no financial help from my clan aside from clan armor (which was a huge help) and all my money came legit. It just takes some time spent looking at the economy and figuring out how to make it work for you, not against you.
Yanno, for me, starting fresh on Franz I have totally enjoyed it. No higher lvl BH to help twink me out. Seeing just how far I could get working with just the drops or spoils I got. I guess it just depends on your point of view in this game. When I started L2 I was in a clan. Free stuff? Ha Ha. Tuff N00B farm your own! I learned alot and now I spend time helping out newbies. I may not have alot of adena or things tucked away in my wh, but Maphr forgive me...I do help out sometimes. I'm glad you got a clan to help you out, but you should really learn to be self sufficient. Just in case that clan decides to disappear on you. Like my first clan did. :(
If you're clan can get you the clan armor, or even the top of D-grade it should be more than enough to get you going. I made my own clan, therefore had to do everything without help, but by the time i hit 40 on my first toon i had just about enough money to get him upgraded.
The Priest of dawn / Priestess of dusk in non-starter towns will sign you up for the Seven Sign event which gives you access to the Necropolis/Catacombs each week. Save up your seal stones that drop from half of the mobs down there, and use the Blacksmith of mammon to upgrade your weapon with the ancient adena you get from the seal stones. That way you need only worry about your armor.
Having been through L2 closed beta i can tell you that the game is much much easier 1-40 than it ever was.
As this genre evolves so will the existing games within it change to move with trends. L2 was a very difficult game.. and.. it still is, in many respects. But the entry barrier was (and probably still is) a bit too high for the type of churn rate that NCSoft wishes for it to have.
But to be honest, L2 isn't the kind of game that should focus entirely on churn, and that is where I see the problems. L2 is a game that really grabs a hold of the people who love it. Selfishly, I would rather see NCSoft focus more on keeping those of us here happy, than bringing in new people... but I'm sure there have been marketing studies done or whatever and they are simply doing what is best for business.
with the economy the way it is?
I started about a month and a half ago and if it hadn't have been for my clan, i would have quit by now. If i was unlucky enough to join a clan that couldnt afford me a set of d and c grade, I couldn't have functioned in the game. I realize the game has been around a long time and bots have inflated the economy and what not. It still doesn't change the fact that a new player CANNOT make it in L2 without someone helping with gear. In a game wear gear is everything and SS are almost a neccesity, it seems ludacris for ncsoft to expect a new player to make it on his or her own without a money machine. There needs to be changes if ncsoft can ever realistically hope of bringing in new players.
LOL, new players nowadays expect easy lvling and money. I can tell you that when there were no or small number of bots in the early days ( prelude, C1 and C2) we STILL had to work our *** off to earn adena for our gears. So in some sense economy ruin by bots doesnt affect the newbies much. I remember i was still using a stupid Forest Bow (NG) when im at lvl 20. The new system that helps new players lvl fast gives them a false idea that this game is as easy as World of Warcraft. It is NOT THAT EASY. You need to spend ALOT of time to earn money and levels. If you cant afford or not willing to spend alot of time grinding as a new player then go back to playing WOW, this game isnt the type for you
Well, this is a game where it is hard to achieve things. The more you fel accomplishment for having achieved it in in the first case.
Personally, remembering the effort it took to reach my current levels (which are low compared to the real grinders) I almost resent how easy noobs have it nowadays.
Almost, after all they are missing a market to hone their trading skills. And there are no nice reds around anymore to give them more sp and free trips home.
OP, maybe this game is NOT intended to be like other games where the advancement is easy. Perhaps one of the delights of L2 is that this game is Harder than others.
Perhaps that is why you have to be good to succeed at L2. Perhaps that is why we L2 players are the hardcore of the genre.
Heck, I think they have made it too easy.
You old timers remember in C1 how you could drop any item (including your equipped weapon) on death to either a mob or a player, red white or purple? There were high levels who would fund their new gear with a perma red alt who did nothing but PK lower players to get their gear drops, sometimes more high reds than lower players, competing for the chance to PK the lowbies.
That was a tough environment to level up in....especially for healers!
(...) You old timers remember in C1 how you could drop any item (including your equipped weapon) on death to either a mob or a player, red white or purple?
No, us old-timers remember the time in UO where dying to another player meant the killer could loot your body of practically every single piece of equipment. UO was a real hardcore PvP game back then, not the carebear-ish "OMG, PK is bad!!!" L2 system.
I realize the game has been around a long time and bots have inflated the economy and what not. It still doesn't change the fact that a new player CANNOT make it in L2 without someone helping with gear.
It actually is far EASIER now to get gear than it used to be. The fact that newbie accounts can upgrade their gear, for one -- in the old days you'd need to sell your old gear at a loss and then buy new -- and the manor system especially. The manor can be the biggest moneymaker in game, I suggest you learn it and quick.
My main was in nongrade until level 34, when I finally could afford a mid-D weapon, and eventually armor. Leveling up some alts helped so I could get C grade armor in my early 40s. It wasn't until B grade that I actually had the gear at the level itself, and I still haven't gotten A grade (except jewelry) despite being 7x, though some of that is that my class isn't very gear-dependent, and BW light +3/+4 has almost identical pdef to nightmare light +0.
OB-Prelude-C1 - No newbie bonuses, no clan gear or academy, no manor system, full sets were impossible to find, SAs did not exist, SS was a luxury, there was no Blessed SpS, C-grade was rare and B-grade was even more rare. If you got a 200k Ogre Power Gauntlets drop in CT you were flying high. Dark Blue mobs had the same drop rate as white mobs and players would farm them for hours, without SS, just to make money.
There are tons of ways to make money in this game, you just have to find them, find your niche. This game is not meant to be played 100% grind. You will spend time playing the market, farming or w/e. Some people don't have the patience for that. I don't, and so I remain ever poor. But I won't complain about the economy either, because I know if I took the time, I could make the money. It just takes time, just like xp does at the higher levels, making adena takes time as well.
I started about a month and a half ago and if it hadn't have been for my clan, i would have quit by now.
...
Somebody already pointed out, you said it yourself.
I can say new players have it much easier now as it used to be. However there are some tricky things: use of soulshots and potions is standard now, do not get catched to that trap. Also do not level to be high, but to be rich. Levels will come easier with wealth. You do not need to be B grade in 2 weeks, make your own pace, explore, do not get discouraged when you see everyone's alt or reroll passing by your levels the express way. Start learning market, and craft: there are people that rather buy stuff, because they have no patience for crafting or do not want to spend precious levelling time looking around city squares. And save your basic materials, you'll see what every spared bone means when you need 5k of them to craft your B or A equipment ;)
I believe ss was a big mistake.SS made the game need those x5 mobs to make actualy a mob not to die within 2 secs from good party.Without SS the way you gather money while hunting is just fine.
Playing the marked is one of the fastest ways to earn adena.
Just for fun I wrote down my assets for one week ago and then what I have today.
10.02.2006 : total adena 250 mill
10.09.2006 : total adena 325 mill + full Majestic juwels set (40 mill) and a demon's staff 12,5mill = 375,5 mill worth
Total profit within 7 days = 127,5mill
The way to get the adena was by traiding common mats(steel, m.ore. glue, lub, etc.), trade items (eg. buy 2xDemon Staffs for 10mill and re-sell for 12,75mill one day later) and using the event quest (buy 10.000 medals for 7.500 mill = SA crystal-12 cost 75mill and sell it 4 days later for 100mill)
and so on.
One of the main resons that I can make adena quite well, is that I have 3 afk-shops up and running for about 20-22 hours a day. I only hunt/lvl for about 2-3 hours a day.
Playing the marked is one of the fastest ways to earn adena.
Just for fun I wrote down my assets for one week ago and then what I have today.
10.02.2006 : total adena 250 mill
10.09.2006 : total adena 325 mill + full Majestic juwels set (40 mill) and a demon's staff 12,5mill = 375,5 mill worth
Total profit within 7 days = 127,5mill
The way to get the adena was by traiding common mats(steel, m.ore. glue, lub, etc.), trade items (eg. buy 2xDemon Staffs for 10mill and re-sell for 12,75mill one day later) and using the event quest (buy 10.000 medals for 7.500 mill = SA crystal-12 cost 75mill and sell it 4 days later for 100mill)
and so on.
One of the main resons that I can make adena quite well, is that I have 3 afk-shops up and running for about 20-22 hours a day. I only hunt/lvl for about 2-3 hours a day.
wow!
I make some money for weapons.
Best thing so far has been the new C5 SB's.
I sold some for 1-2m, but now that most every one has the books I sell for 500k.
if you sell IDK 4 books at 500k thats 2m.
As a archer I make money soloing, so I make 500k soloing for 6 hours, then the SB drops I make mil's from it.
other then that o/e weapons works decetly if they don't fail.
lol I made a +10 mithril dagger like 2 days ago...and my friend just gave me back my +8 top D duals.
I play in Franz now. Im 40.. maybe alltogether with newbie shots i've used 15K of SS. Its doable without shots just fine.
Ppl are so **** spoiled lately. I see in our clan - too many ppl waste their money on shots and complain then they dont have money for armor - waahhahaha.. clan help. For god sake - use your BRAINS.. unless you dont have 'em.
This game should be hardcore. It goes easier and easier with each chronicle - major suckage >_<
I loved C1. I remember going several times "o crap.. i dropped my weapon!!!" when fighting in SODA, made me reroll, cause i didnt have money for weapon. I got my devotion set when i was lvl 20 and then i still didnt have money for top ng weapon.
Seesh.. you guys have newbie buffers, newbie exchange system - EVERYTHING to make things sooooo much easier. Nothing is comparable to c1. I dont like easy games. I stopped WoW cause it was booooooooooooooring. I need challenge and it makes me sad to see each chronicle making things even more easier.
I pray that they dont implement this stupid thing that you cant drop your items anymmore upon death or when you're red. C'mon now... this is part that makes dieing somewhat you try to avoid + exp losing.. but still. There has to be smth that pushes up your adrenaline rate.
Please dont make it anymore easier >_< It is already easy enough to earn money and gear to have it all by the time you reach to your next armor expertise.
And no... I dont help my clannies with money or things when i see them using shots. Because some things have to come harder than others and i hate stupid money wasting.
/rant off
Anyways... just.. please dont make it anymore easier.. pleasepleaseplease
lol the good ol days.... when everyone was a noob.... we had no newb buffs, no higher lvls to buff us (if you wanted buffs pary w/a healer and get might, shiled 2 tops), using shots was a luxury for the 1st part of the game, you couldnt afford health potions so you sat after every 3 or 4 mobs, even at lv 5,6,7 -20 that ppl solo for now we had to group, top NG weapons ? wat were those?
and after all the problems we all had when we 1st started fi you stuck w/ it and hit 40 mid-C grade was uber and CT lvl 2 was about the only place to lvl and so crowded you could only get 2 or 3 mobs
Lineage is hardcore at times but as for wat i think you have it so easy anyone from prelude or c1 would smack you for crying
o 1 more thing... 1pk = you dropt gear not this 5 pk stuff and sineater was unheard of so if ppl took your area wich they did...every 5 seconds it was move over or drop your loot
how can NCsoft expect new l2 players to join..? Easy to answer, you get addicted to L2 FAST :)
they7 just need to take a peek and even if they leave,they be back soon... the pvp,politics,grind,hardocre is just irresistable.
I never knew what a soulshot or spiritshot was till I was about level 25. I never was in a party that spammed soulshots until I was level 52 in DVC/AL.
I also remember elven mithril gloves were around 300k and so were manticore skin boots. Also a Brig helm was about 350k those times. These items now on bartz are ranging from 1.5mil to 3mil.
Newbies think they gotta spam soulshots and buy this overpriced equipment. The set bonunses arent that important though. I didnt complete my elven mithril set until i was lvl 38 on my SE.
I guess they got it easier, as the mobs give way more exp now. Completing sets for d grade is alot more expensive now.