I've decided rather arbitrarily that I want to make a summoner. They are the only class that I've never even considered making, and with the exceptions of a gladiator and a warlord are the only classes I've not at least tried.
So my question to everyone is what do you like about each summoner class? What don't you like? Why?
I'm not interested in a necro...I guess technically they're summoners, but I have one...and we all know how much action those servitors see unless we need them to take a beating for us.
My thought was to pair one with a little EE perhaps. Is an elemental summoner a viable match there or not?
What works best in sieges, in PvP, in PvE? I've not seen many phantom summoners period, and while I love the ES' Seraphim do they have anything else that makes them attractive? Warlocks have cute kitties...wee! But what (if anything) makes them exciting?
For ES, I like: In single-target, love the aqua cubic. Otherwisely, I love the flexible playstyle... you can AoE, you can (ugh) buff or semi-DD in a party, you can solo, you can sorta nuke at low levels. AoE is my favourite, definitely.
For WK, I liked the speed of Kai - awesome how fast he can throw himself at a target - and the binding cubic when it went off, but I was not satisfied with it for the most part (but it has gotten a boost in c5).
For PS, I didn't like sitting so much just to keep Soulless out, or standing and fighting next to Shadow only to see low low low EXP/mob.
EE/ES is an "ok" duo for AoE since it means you will definitely get across the buff round with heals and recharges from the EE, but it won't be much fun, and the PP is simply the dreamteam partner for any summoner IMHO (except maybe an SE/WC for a DE).
ETA: The PS party summon is by far the most fun to play - healing is just a lot more interesting than buffing once every 2 minutes.
I play a phantom summoner, there are pros and cons.
Here's the breakdown:
Silhouette - 90% XP penalty - Special skill: Nuke. It's a mediocre drain -- it has the same power and matk as a nuker two tiers lower than the summoner (so a level 74 summoner would have Sil nuke with the same power as a level 70 spellhowler). The drawbacks to Silhouette are a very bad casting speed and a skill cooldown that prevents the nuke from really being spammable. Also, you can't up matk by enchants, at least not until you can enchant skills at 76+. I only usually use this PvE if for some reason I'm in a situation where I won't be getting XP anyway (e.g. doing certain quests). It's very cheap to summon so in PvP where I am resummoning a lot, I use it. It also is the only with a long-distance attack.
Shadow - 30% XP penalty - Special skill: 15% passive VR. With its very high patk, this is quite a lot, especially as it stacks with SE/WC and BD vampiric rage. This would be the usual soloing summon. It also can do well in PvP as the vampiric rage effect really increases its survival. It has no active skills, though.
Soulless - 10% XP penalty - Special Skills: Corpse Burst, Poison Cloud (same as the necromancer). Poison cloud is really nice in mass PvP once you're high enough level to reach effect 8 poison (uncurable by greater antidotes). Corpse burst can't be used on player corpses so limited PvP use. This summon also deals about 10% more melee damage than Shadow or Silhouette.
Nightshade - 5% XP penalty - Special Skills: Sacrifice, Hex+Gloom+Hate, AOE Hex+Gloom+Hate. Mostly when I have this out, I am doing nothing but healing; with Nightshade the Phantom Summoner can be one of the best single-target healers in game. No AOE heals, no buffs, and no cures do limit the regions where you can play.
Cubics:
Phantom Cubic (Single or Mass Summon). 30% chance to trigger on a swing, so it tends to debuff enemies pretty quickly, although the recast delay means it won't often debuff the same enemy many times. Debuff is either weakness, hex, or wind shackle. Mass summon this in a dagger-heavy party and you can really, really debuff things.
Spark Cubic (Single Summon only). 12% to trigger on a swing, and a base 80% chance to actually stun.
Overall, I like the class. Some days more than others ;)
You need a lesson in logic lol.
The statement "All true summoners have 4 summons" doesnt mean "All classes who have 4 summons are true summoners".
And it was you that gave the impression a summoners worth lies in the number of summons they have. My point about necro's having 5 summons was supposed to prove that that this was not the case!
You need a lesson in logic lol.
The statement "All true summoners have 4 summons" doesnt mean "All classes who have 4 summons are true summoners".
And it was you that gave the impression a summoners worth lies in the number of summons they have. My point about necro's having 5 summons was supposed to prove that that this was not the case!
i play a crafter
mechanic golem takes 15% xp and is essential for reasonable xp, however the adena costs really add up
big boom is pretty much useless for anything except 1 hitting noobs in the arena
siege golem is usally not needed since most clans can break down a castle door before you can summon the thing
wild hog cannon can be killed by a single archer
WS is the only class in game that has 4 summons makeing them the best summoner class avaliable
I appreciate the thought...and I have a WS on both Franz and Lionna...but they're not quite what I had in mind ;)
I really appreciate the information on the PS Arigato!
Based on what I'm hearing both a PS and a ES are strong choices for different reasons. Anyone have any thoughts on the Warlock beyond Kai's movement speed?
Where do summoner's fit into the level curve? Are they as slow as dwarves or are they closer to insaneo nuker "I have two rechargers/buff pets so now what?!" kind of speeds?
I have a Warlock and my son plays a PS. We love them! They are a hoot to play and the party action can be fun. My Clan has all 3 of them in it (ES/PS/WK) and that's a fun party too.
The Warlock has some nice skills, they are more expensive to play though. The Mass Summon cubic costs twice the crstals of the other 2 summoners, we assume that's becuase it has a higher damage capability but have no proof for that at this time. You will love the Binding cubic. This is a para that when it hits, and I find that it hits fairly often, will last long enough for you to beat the mob to death before it wears off. I even have some luck using it for crowd control when we pull in extra aggro. I leave Kai assisting on the party and I start hitting the new mob. I have had as many as 4 mobs para'd at the same time during a fight (that one was very exciting and better...no one died!). Summoners are a blast to play but be aware that they are expensive. All of their skills are crystal (C & D) based. Makes you wonder why they never gave the summoners the crystalize skill for C and D crystals!
Kai is not only fast but he hits pretty hard too. I'm level 53 right now and my Kai has a fully buffed Patk of over 800, 803 I think 863 when he gets zerked. That's not too bad! Bear in mind thought that the main summons for all of them (Kai, Soulless, Merrow) have the same base attack stats, that includes Patk, attack speed and run speed if I recall correctly.
yeah, warlocks have the highest HP of the summoners, though that isn't saying much. hrm, binding has gotten useful in c5, lands roughly 1/3 the time now, though it only lasts for 30 seconds. means we have a little crowd control now that sleep is too slow to be useful. Storm cubic (and the mass version) are still fairly useless. seems to do about 250-300 damage every second or third mob. casts too slow to be useful against 1x HP mobs, not enough damage for multiple HP mobs.
really, though, there are pluses and minuses to each of the three summoner classes. ES has the best nuking summons and life cubic, and the best cast speed. PS has the best melee summon (thanks to the inbuilt VR) and a decent healing party summon, Warlocks get binding cubic plus Queen's buffs. all three summoners have a unique summon buff too (empower for ES, might for PS, and WW for warlocks)
shrug, really just personal choice. I'm a warlock because I couldn't stand how the ES unicorns looked and I don't like the way DE males look. shrug.
Phantom Summoners also get the best mass cubic. Storm, as you mentioned, is rather weak DPS-wise, and Aqua cubic can't be stacked multiple times on a single monster, so when you're focus-firing there's not much benefit to having 9 cubics going. Mass Phantom, on the other hand, in a group really means there's a solid chance that the target will be debuffed with all three debuffs. In a melee group, the daggers will trigger those cubics like crazy, and they'll get Hex on the mob quite rapidly.
I am actually quite tempted to make a summoner myself, probably going to be Warlock or Elemental Summoner. I have little to no experience in playing a nuker myself, but I do have had enough party-play with them to know what they are capable off, and what their weaknesses are.
I just wondered, as this toon will most likely be PvE only (just for fun you know), what class would be the better PvE'r?
A lot of this depends on where you hunt. I really dont waste time on 1x mobs much at all. I get in parties and go to Cat's and Necros. Not sure where your getting your numbers on the damage for mass storm though. I have seen it consistantly hit for 300-450, fires at least once on every mob, and in a 5-9 person party that's a fair amount of extra damage being done. That's about the same as having an extra archer in the party, albeit an archer with a bad bow. It hasn't happened often but every once in a while, I'll see several of the bugs fire at almost the same time from the other party member. Watch for this, then you will see just how much damage your Mass Storm is adding to the party. Still that's not bad added damage when your up against mobs that are 4x and several levels above you. Fun too!
Oh, I can't confirm this, was too slow getting screenshot and the fight was continuing with other mobs. But anyway, I swear that my storm cubic got a crit the other day. It happened so fast that it took me a few seconds to realize what I had just seen. Mobs health went just under half to dead. I didn't realize until a few seconds later that, at the time, I was the only one in the party hitting that mob and I remember seeing my storm bug fire. Anyone else ever experience this?
My son has a PS and we have discussed several times using his Mass cubic in large parties. The only thing I don't understand, if the Mass Phantom cubic is so much better than Mass Storm, why the hell does mine cost twice the D crystals to use?
My clan happenes to have all 3 of them in it. To tell you truth, it looks like every one of them is fun to play. They all seem to do well in Pve. They hit hard, harder than most players of the same level, though attack speed is less. There is one draw back to the PS, mostly effect C grade. The summons Soulless puts a contract on you when you use it. This is a penalty for summoning an "unholy" thing. This is a de-buff that makes you bleed and yelp all the time, it also continuously drains mp. The MP drain isn't too noticable until you start having to cast heals on Soulless, and then you see that your not getting your mp's back very fast.
The other thing is, the dam contract run for 2 minutes, and then Soulless puts it back on you, it will stop in the middle of the dam fight to put it back on you!
Mmm, not really looking forward to sound like a female tennis player Kurnikova-clone, and 2nd I already have too much Dark Elves, that's why I was looking at Warlock or Elemental Summoner.
Frankly I don't have a single light elf, so might as well take that, but I wanted to know if the unicorns hit as hard as Kai the Cat?
Solo/duo PvE: truly, a positive char. Can solo non-stop, without using any(!) consumables, with self-buffs on white mobs. Of course, it is slow as hell, but saves adena. Best duo i have tried so far was with SE or WC (using 10% summon) - this can also be done non-stop, almost without need of additional recharge, and the killing speed is extreme (buffed summon becomes one of the best DD for PvE, because can kill a mob in 2 hits (if both are critical)). PP is not good enough to go non-stop with Kai (the 10% cat), because without VR the summoners MP drain is too big.
Party: Warlock is a very useful leecher in archer/dagger party: let your cat queen dance once in 2 min, heal some light wounds and keep yor buttocks on the ground while XP is incoming ^^. No other summoner is as welcome to parties, as warlock (maybe with exception of ES in mage parties, which are rare)
In small party (3-4 toons), 10% summon is most useful because of its increased p.atk and dmg reflect, and because it does not receive all dmg dealt by a mob (decreased need in healing).
Did some testing with party of summoners - was also awesome. Everyone is safe, constantly at full MP, without need of healers/rechargers (need WC to buff ~15 chars in one party). Such party can be done with more DD's than any other full-party (maybe just except mages).
PvP: here the problems begin. If an enemy catches you while solo grinding - bsoe or consider yourself dead, even if you're being attacked by a dorf. Grind summons either have low pdef/hp (Kai), or greatly reduced PvP damage (unclear how much exactly, but i heard about ~20-30% reduction, when compared to PvE), and PvP summons are impossible to summon while in battle.
Not sure about arena in C5, but in C4 self-buffed high level summoners were pretty much unbeatable by ANY other class (self-buffed), when the opponent was of comparable level.
I know you're used to spending them, but to most other people, crystals are very much a consumable.
I have always preferred PPs as duo partner for ES or WK - if MP goes too low on the summoner, simply unsummon, pop a kat (buff it acu/zerk to make the recharge go faster) and go back up to full.
The ES is also welcome not only in mage parties, but everywhere that MP is used - no other class can contribute such a huge flat rate of MP regeneration, and generally, healers, nukers, and bladedancers as well as some archers have asked for me back after partying with me once. At higher levels, there's also the stun/silence cure - infinitely useful.
If you're attacked while you are unbuffed by a buffed character, you are in trouble indeed. However, I doubt that even with the slight (10% for true summoners AFAIK) an un- or self-buffed character would be able to kill you. Of course, once buffs enter the picture, it might look different.
If you're attacked while you are unbuffed by a buffed character, you are in trouble indeed. However, I doubt that even with the slight (10% for true summoners AFAIK) an un- or self-buffed character would be able to kill you. Of course, once buffs enter the picture, it might look different.
Depends. I've been absolutely chainstunned by some classes before (chainstun me, kill summon, kill me). Those come down to a matter of luck, on whether or not I get enough heals off to keep the summon alive.
Another bad situation I've come across is Fear on the summon; thirty seconds of no control is bad, especially as the summon runs FAR. Far enough that a class like a DA can root me and get my summon out of range of transfer pain very quickly. Unsealing my jewelry might help make the root part of that much harder to accomplish, but with the summon's high runspeed, fear is really a huge annoyance in PvP.
My own estimates of the summon patk nerf was 20% on PTS (done by looking at my own patk&attack speed, hitting a target 15 times and averaging my damage ignoring miss and crit, then hitting the same target 15 times with the summon, again discounting miss and crit, and using its known attack speed to calculate what its effective patk should be). I do plan to replicate that on the live servers with a sample of 100 hits of each, rather than 15.
Haha yeah, feared servitor ******* into aggro mobs is absolute, final game over.
The easiest way to test the PvP damage nerf is to use a nuke, since they have fixed damage - you can simply calculate how much it should do, what it does do, and you should have the PvP damage gap. I'm too lazy to do this, though. :p