mysterious sword
patk: 85
matk: 81
atk speed: Fast
ss used: x2
sps used: x2
weight: 1430
homunkulus sword
patk: 111
matk: 101
atk speed: Fast
ss used: x3
sps used: x3
weight: 950
With the new system of using ores I would think going with the mysterious sword would be better because it uses only two spiritshots per heal. As a result I can stay in the field longer even if the sword weights more. But I want to know what others think.
This is a cost to performance analysis. Many of the top weapons are not the most desired. Homunkulus sword is not top but nukers desire it. The focused daggers are not top but they are desired for crits. In this thread I'm wondering if it would be better for healers/nukers to go with the mysterious sword since it is cheaper when using shots versus the homunkulus. Both can have the acumen SA.
Spudnik is right
a good healer dont need insane cast speed just a matter of adjusting your time to heal if you cant be heal fast enough you not supoce to be their in the first place
I'd rather have Acumen than Mana Up if those were the two I was choosing between. Mana Up is mostly useful only if you're the buffer and your regular mana pool isn't big enough to buff everyone - or if you are rechargeing. For healing, you should be making enough MP to keep your regular mana pool up - otherwise maybe you dont have enough DD power to be where you're at. Mana Up would just make the wait for the inevitable downtime longer and also making the downtime longer.
Acumen helps at tight spots when you pull too much, especially now since heals are kinda downgraded if you're a SE. And using 2x shot seems like a good idea. Like wasterx said, it's a lot cheaper than upgrading to B to get 1-shot usage.
The new heals are way more affected by M.atk then befor, so M.atk is good to have, specialy as you got others skills to, like root/sleep and the fort. High M.atk is a good choise
If you feel safe, and in a party that deplets you MP pool pretty quickly (recharge mage parties, raids, siege buffing - remember, in siege or raid if you get attacked you die in 1-2 shots anyway) you can consider also Conversion instead of Mana up. My current difference with and without conversion is almost 1200 MP. With BTS it is even more. When you deplete the mana difference, you can switch back to acumen weapon.
BTW highest I had so far was 4863, with BW robes, BTS6 and conversion. I hope one day I break 5k on MP pool :) Only downside is ... regen it :(
Mages want M.atk, so Homun would be the obvious choice.
Healers can compensate up to a point for M.atk. SE's should be using the Mystery Sword for less BSPS usage, they have Empower if they want to Root/Sleep, that more then makes up for the M.atk.
Mana Up Vs. Acumen is not a debate. Some healers find Mana Up more useful, others like Acumen better. Leave it at that and let people use whatever they want. In bigger groups, you shouldnt need Acumen, nobody should die that fast with 3/4 DD's hitting a mob, Mana Up would be more reliable so you had enough MP to share between each character.
Our clans PP uses Mana Up so she can buff everyone.
I use Acumen because I always group with our PP (We find groups togeather) So I get Bless the Soul added to my Mana Pool.
actually, yes. i am a carebear, and i only pve. and i think mana up is more useful for me, since my parties (when i play my healers) are usually 9-27 players.
manaup = gooood for me. conversion = teh UBAR for me.
If you don't PVP, I'm not so sure what you do with a an manaup weapon when conversion is beyoind beyer.
Got both an Acumen weapon and Converstion weapon for my EE, the converstion is mainly for raids, never ever needed more MP then she need in PVE ever excepr raids, Acumen owns.
SE's get the most advantage out of the Acumen SA for Healers/Buffers. Their VR buff does most of the work, so their Mana is always high anyway, that and they need the Speed.
This is a cost to performance analysis. Many of the top weapons are not the most desired. Homunkulus sword is not top but nukers desire it. The focused daggers are not top but they are desired for crits. In this thread I'm wondering if it would be better for healers/nukers to go with the mysterious sword since it is cheaper when using shots versus the homunkulus. Both can have the acumen SA.
The only players I know who use Focus on daggers are either n00bs, low levelers, or somebody who doesn't expect to PvP.
Critical Damage is the best for dagger PvP. ALL high level Dagger skills are "critical" hits so when your skill lands (which daggers depend on) they hit VERY hard.
isnt mana up a far better SA for a healer to begin with? speed can be acheived via other means surely.
Not really, you get more mana, but you do not regenerate it faster. So unless you go from full to no mana all the time, mana-up isn't a terrible useful SA.
well, seeing as mana-up helped me completely recharge my sorc while i levelled her, it was pretty useful to me. i had mp leftover to heal if necessary, and i buffed her with what she needed. it took as much time to hunt the mobs as it took for her to regen MP when i paced myself.
i used soulfire dirk for it, and carried extra shots. i even used shots while rechargeing ^^ i made back the money, and was left with an 8m investment of a dagger that paid both for itself and for several armor pieces of B grade. and yes. i did get lucky.
I am not sure how it helped you recharge her? unless you used all your mana or regenerate to full mana, its the same.
Mana-up does not help your regen rate. So spending 900 mana while you have 1700 mana is the same when you have 1400 mana.
The shots however are cheaper, and the dagger itself is cheap (You can get a humonkolous sword for around 6-7 million though)
went OOM exactly the same time that i fully recharged her. after mana up, i had enough mana to include a new Empower buff and sometimes a shield buff etc etc.
eh I have an SE too and as soon as c5 came out I got the mystery sword and ditched the [censored]. She now carries enoguh shot to use while healing and rechargeing plus able to carry stuff for other.
Now as for being a nuker who has pvped with a healer I would say that acumen wpn is a must. In the past cple days I know I have been saved in pvp by a bishoop's casting speed.
In pve not so much so but in a world of burst dmg, a few miliseconds can mean life vs death. I survived 3 daggers at range with the bishop using major heal and GBH with full buffs, while I had archers shooting me as well. So since your lookign to save money on a buffer/healer acct Mystery sword is a good looking cheaper shot use alternative to the Club of nature homunculous
HAHHAHAHAHAHA u Newbies Really thing manaup is better for a caster?
IF YOU CANNOT CONTROL YOUR MANA GET OFF A HEALER
Simply, Acumen SA is there so u KEEP the people alive , i guess your all carebears who only pve!
Wow, one of the dumbest things I've seen written. I regularly run out of mp at sieges, therefore, mana up = very good thing. Without mp, people die, therefore, more mp is a good thing. I'm not sure I'd want one on an SE, but for an EE, its awesome.
HAHHAHAHAHAHA u Newbies Really thing manaup is better for a caster?
IF YOU CANNOT CONTROL YOUR MANA GET OFF A HEALER
Simply, Acumen SA is there so u KEEP the people alive , i guess your all carebears who only pve!
Wow, one of the dumbest things I've seen written. I regularly run out of mp at sieges, therefore, mana up = very good thing. Without mp, people die, therefore, more mp is a good thing. I'm not sure I'd want one on an SE, but for an EE, its awesome.
Its true, I was using Mana Up on my EE till about 58, Then one one of my RL joined the clan with an equal level Prophet. We party togeather 90% of the time (PP & EE LFG Gets attention =D) and I had no need for Mana Up, Switched to Acumen, had 950 - 1000 C.Speed with PP Buffs, and Bless the Soul to add lost Mana.
Mana Up is still a great SA, its good for bigger groups, or Duo's with classes that require alot of HP/MP constantly. (PP Duo would still need Heals I guess.)
I tried both tonight on my 56 EE w/emp3 .. +3 homonculus = 304hp healed
+0 mysterious = 300hp healed...
so if 4-20 points is worth the extra shots and cost of the weapon then the mysterious sword isnt for you ...
As for Mages ofcourse every point of Matk is worth its weight in gold with the acumen buff
and if your ever in a pole party pulling 2-3 rooms in Branded you want all the heal speed you can get or you heal too early and get pwnd by the train :eek:
The old heals is just wasthing cash to use shots to, becose the 'DOT' effect is always gonna be teh same, using shots will not affect this only the first heal part and it is not much at all.
Major heal on other hand differ quite a bit on M.atk
I changed from Stick of Faith/MPup to Mysterious sword/Acumen. The weapon is enchanted and now has 114Matk. Without the enchants i didn't like the heals and liked my +3 Homu Acumen better. 110 Matk
Mana up = great for PVE with or without PP, wouldn't use it for Wars, daily ganks.
Acumen = no doubt when at War with your clan or PVP
It is very hard to use Mana up when you in War and get ganked a lot. Fastest heals possible are needed.
It's great being in a Nuker party when you get dance of con from the BD, casting goes way over 1K.
Also Clarity helps a lot now without MPup.
Oh god, I can't believe there are still people out there who think mana up is good for healers!
Mana up is only useful the first 10 minutes of xp! After that it's USELESS! You're carrying a staff or a sword that does NOTHING for you for 95% of the time you are XPing! Why do that?
For those of you who don't understand this, I'll explain. Mana Up adds a fixed amount of mp to your mp pool. Once you have dipped below that number (down below what you originally had) then it's doing absolutely nothing for you. Whether you're carrying a Mana Up weapon and you're at 2368/3600 mp or you're carrying an Acumen weapon and you're at 2368/3100 mp, you're still at 2368 mp! Mana Up doesn't help you regen faster, it doesn't help you do anything! Either get an Acumen weapon to switch out w/ it after you dip below or only have an Acumen SA.
As far as the OP's question, I think it's just a matter of preference. I don't really think the weight thing should be an issue because in the upcoming patch the weight of Spirit Ore will be cut in half and CP pots will be reduced even more, from 110 all the way down to 25. You should be able to carry a lot more than you currently can.
So the question becomes, cost vs. hp. The homu is going to heal for more, but cost slightly more per heal. It really doesn't matter either way I think.
HAHHAHAHAHAHA u Newbies Really thing manaup is better for a caster?
IF YOU CANNOT CONTROL YOUR MANA GET OFF A HEALER
Simply, Acumen SA is there so u KEEP the people alive , i guess your all carebears who only pve!
Wow, one of the dumbest things I've seen written. I regularly run out of mp at sieges, therefore, mana up = very good thing. Without mp, people die, therefore, more mp is a good thing. I'm not sure I'd want one on an SE, but for an EE, its awesome.
o.O You call her statement dumb? Explain to me exactly how a Mana Up SA helps you to regen mp at sieges? Also, are you saying that you actually sit at sieges long enough to regen to full mp? And you do this regularly? What server do you play on? Do people on attack the castle every 30 minutes?
Of course I run out of mp at sieges but that's because I'm healing, constantly, non-stop. A mana up SA would do N-O-T-H-I-N-G to help me regen my mana. The only thing it would do would be to give me slightly more mp at the start of the siege. After I dropped below that I would need to switch to a better SA like Acumen or, crap, even a Health SA would be more useful than mana up! And I'm heavy enough carrying Spirit Ore and BSpS and CP Pots and Quick Heal Pots. I don't need to be carrying two weapons so that I can have 500 more mp the whole siege (because, again, when do I ever sit long enough to regen full mp?)
I'm sorry, I just can't get over this. That an EE would actually say a mana up SA was better than an Acumen. Speed is what saves your party members. The ability to dump as much hp onto a person as you can in as short a time as possible. That is of utmost importance in a siege. How could a mana up SA possibly save your party members' lives?
To further add on to the discussion.
IMO, all around Acumen is a way better SA. Like so many have pointed out, Mana Up is useless once you pass that magic barrier of MP that it adds. I sure as hell need Acumen since in sticky situations I now, as of C5, can't put as much HP per heal anymore. I want Major Heal too ^^;
For PvP there's no question which SA is more useful.
Mana Up/Conversion is awesome for raids tho, 'cause then you need all the MP you can get. With Conv Homu, BTB6 and Maj Robes I have 5.9k MP - which is alot of MP I can put towards recharging.
Lol Listof.
I play an EE. And my casting speed is high.
And i use Mana up on my staff.
(Majestic robes and Desparion staff)
Keeps my group up longer and not as much rest.
Speed is not everything.It's how u preserve ur mana.
Heal only when u need too, rest when u need to.
PvP/sieges, yes u run outta mana quickly.
And u can also tattoo urself.
And EE's now have CLARITY(save's mana)
(think u save about 30mana pr cast on regen and heals)
So u can also use Acumen.
Ps. my groups always has a prophet/bd.So acumen is not needed on my weapon(accumen spell helps a lot,thus does the bd dance)
But anyway, People have different playstyles.
So don't mock anyone for doing what they do.
They play like that for a reason.
1. You're regenerating MP faster than you spend it. In this case, mana up is useless, you're gonna be full no matter what.
2. You're regenerating MP slower than you spend it. In this case, mana up is useless, you're gonna be empty no matter what.
It's ONLY useful when you usually regen MP but sometimes you need to release a very large amount of MP at once, then you can go back and regen for 10 minutes or more.
Examples:
1. Healers at raid bosses (though conversion would be better).
2. Buffer classes who cannot do all the buffs they feel are necessary without it (which is really the most common reason to use it).
I've never been at a siege where mana up would be useful, and for any healer it won't be useful in PvE; if you're running the MP so low that you need the extra, you're gonna have downtime regardless. It does have utility for buffers, especially if they need a little boost but not as much as conversion (which has a downside too).
And yes, clarity helps the MP regen situation, because each spell costs less MP and thus requires less time to regenerate from. But that isn't really related to what weapon you should use.
If you truly have no use for acumen SA, then go health for sieges. More HP never hurts.
At the end of the day people play like they do.
And i have never lost a Player by dying with my staff(without lagg)
I use Major heal and bsps-a's. and heal for 1000+.
And that little extra mana might save ur butt one time.
So imma keep that Mana up.
It helps me, iff it don't help u.To bad.
I play like that and my mana pool has saved many people.
Even iff no higher regen rate.it's still that extra mana that keeps ur group up for longer.
Not everything in this game has to do with pvp/sieges.
But as i said.
"People have different playstyles.
So don't mock anyone for doing what they do.
They play like that for a reason."
people forget that you also regenerate more MP's a second if mana pool is biger so Mana up is more usefull then it looks
1000 mp bar regenerate a lot less then a mana pool of 2500 sinds Regeneration is bepanded on % not on how much mp's a second
people forget that you also regenerate more MP's a second if mana pool is biger so Mana up is more usefull then it looks
1000 mp bar regenerate a lot less then a mana pool of 2500 sinds Regeneration is bepanded on % not on how much mp's a second
No, MP regeneration is a fixed amount per tick. You can verify that pretty easily with a conversion weapon.
people forget that you also regenerate more MP's a second if mana pool is biger so Mana up is more usefull then it looks
I really dont think thats true. I've regenned the same amount of MP sitting with an Acumen weapon and a Mana Up weapon.
Mana Up isnt useless, I used it 40 - 55 Because I had Robes that improved cast speed along with a +4 WIT Tatoo, I didnt NEED anymore Speed. As I've said, I group with a RL Friend PP ALL the time, So I can choose Mana Up and have Acumen 3 / Zerk 2, or I can choose Acumen and have Bless The Soul.
By your reasoning Bless The Soul is useless too...
Why are you getting SO stressed about which SA's people use. Mana Up is deffinatly a PvE SA, nobody said otherwise. I just find it funny you NEED to believe you are right.
By your reasoning Bless The Soul is useless too...
Actually, I do think that too, for exactly the reason you mention ;) I prefer BtB on healers, not BtS, although buffers I think BtS is very needed (and care should be taken to prevent it from dropping). I'd never hunt anywhere where our healers didn't have MP regen > MP usage, simply because I don't want downtime. So the healers always tend to have a min of 1800 MP or so, and that's at the end of a bad pull or buffs or something.
But hey, if it works for you, use it. I personally only find BtS/Mana Up/Conversion useful on buffing and on raids, because there it's all about mana pool not mana regen. I do have a conversion weapon for when I need mana pool. It just gets limited and very situational use.
I suppose it could be useful if you were very, very, very slowly running out of MP as you played, and the additional pool kept you going for long enough that you'd be done playing before you ran out.
At the end of the day people play like they do.
And i have never lost a Player by dying with my staff(without lagg)
I use Major heal and bsps-a's. and heal for 1000+.
And that little extra mana might save ur butt one time.
So imma keep that Mana up.
It helps me, iff it don't help u.To bad.
I play like that and my mana pool has saved many people.
Even iff no higher regen rate.it's still that extra mana that keeps ur group up for longer.
Not everything in this game has to do with pvp/sieges.
But as i said.
"People have different playstyles.
So don't mock anyone for doing what they do.
They play like that for a reason."
If you now play an EE, you don't need a big mana pool, you don't have enought important buffs.
Plus if your party is in danger, and your reacing the 300 MP limit, PR is your friend. mana up dosnt save life, Acumen save life more specialy in bad sitatuonsm it also help PR as that cast faster to.
Also other things, any party who don't stop when the healers runs very close to low MP in areas who bad pulls easely can hapen can blame themself, Mana up weapn here won't help at all.
Only times when big mana pool is really usefull is on buffers for raids, and healers on raids, why? becose here you really gonna give it all, and a big pool only helps. On normal hunting you truthfully don't need it becsoe if you run out of MP, the group setup is not very well Mana up won't help here at all becose your downtime will be identical no mater what, aka takes longer to regen teh MP up compared to befor.
The one who play an EE and say that they can have enought speed is surly not playing the class at it's full potential, the class is ALL about high speed nothing else.
Well here is the deal, with next up date one can finally carrying more than 1 weapon with possible dropping going away so feel free to have both.
As too healers and mana-up if you sit them right you are always into that over dip in PvE on one or the other which means you can play harder and sit time is rare. As to Buff's each class has something you want in a group and thus a good support group is needed. Give me a EE, P, and a SE and I can take 1 SH to the top of TOI without sitting etc. The EE and SE not only Heal the are crowd control, as well as regen. I just do the killing.
I prefer a Tank in that small group if at all possible less heals since he takes the front, thus allowing SE and EE to get to work with alot less damage. I can see less need for mana up in Seige times, though there are plenty of dead times where you can regain that full pool of mana.
The biggest thing as always, is that some player decides that their way is the only way and lets call everyone else a noob. I say that player is the noob since they are the one that screams the loudest if a change is made to effect their 1 thought play style. I did not scream when they took the Sleep cast time up. I have always played with EE's and Tanks; I just shrugged since my SH is a DD and thus let the ones that where meant to be crowd control do so. As too skill changes they are done to add in classes ppl decide they can do without. Now maybe you will all wonder where those classes are, dang I bet they are with the clans that leveled with them that always saw their worth or rerolled due to others never seeing their worth. Point is a game is aweful boring if one play sytle and weapon setup is good for 4+ years. ;)
IMO conversion for large pvp, acumen for small pvp. Sieges you have a longer life cycle and more to heal so you will need as much mp as possible. Small pvp matches you shouldnt run out of mana and want to cast asap.
Conversion in PvP? You realize it drops your HP by 30%?
With BTB6 I have 2.5k HP with a Conversion Homu, instead of 4k without. Generally I die fast in PvP but I'll die even faster like that.
hmm do you realy think that the 30% life gonna change for large pvp i dont think it matters anything also on a siedge
all this expensive rings and stuff realy dont come in use in large PvP's i mean if they hit you for like 1500 or 1250 it both hurt and it dont change a thing
no why Mana up is better and also generate's more mana per click got to do with the armor when you regenerate 5,24% of 1000 mana pool or 5,24% of a pool of 2500 realy makes a difrance
but ofcourse if you in a single PvP Acumen will makes a difrance but what the **** do a healer type gonna do only they can make sure they get out of the PvP alive but why are you in war then????????????????????
Abisha The armor sets only increse the MP regen with 5,24% NOT 5,24% of the MP per TICK.
If it was really 5,24% MP per tick it wuld taken less then 80 seconds to FULLY regen your MP back up LOL.
What it does is increse your MP regen with 5,24%.
Normaly eg at around 60 an healer got around 14 MP / tick sitting, 5,24% of that is an 0,7 MP tick increse, or rater 210 more MP / buff cycle. 630 MP / hour.
(a tick occure every 4 sec ingame, aka every time you get MP )
BTW some other facts, if yur MP regen is 14 MP per tick, it wuld taken.
ca 12 min to regen 2500 MP, what an lv 6x EE have about.
ca 14,3 min to regen 3000 mp ( Mana UP )
ca 16,6 min to regen 3500 mp ( conversion )
The downtime will be the same no amter what, aka your regen will always be teh same, whatevery the size of yuor MP pool is.
i see what you mean the bonus of some robe sets gives people a wrong idea of what it do sinds it says 5,24% MP regeneration i thougth on total MP bar but they mean regeneration speed bonus in that case it indeed dont matter
Oh god, I can't believe there are still people out there who think mana up is good for healers!
They're probably the same ones that demand BtS when not at full MP and resting. :)
I demand BtS... in places where herbs drop. I see no point in mana up weapon, though. If I didn't need Acumen, I would be pretty safe with Conversion :p
By your reasoning Bless The Soul is useless too...
BTS is useless after you fall below that line as well. You think it's not? 2.5k before --> 3k w/ BTS --> couple of heals later you're at 2k = why do you need BTS after that? After the first buff round, I don't care if I get BTS or not. Sure I want it the first buff round but after that... it's wasting a spot on my buff bar and it's wasting 30mp (or whatever it costs) of the prophet's mp. If the prophet's doing good on mp and I'm not close to being overbuffed I don't say anything, but if either of those scenarios is a problem then I request that the prophet not give me BTS.
Why are you getting SO stressed about which SA's people use. Mana Up is deffinatly a PvE SA, nobody said otherwise. I just find it funny you NEED to believe you are right.
I find it funny that you finish your "argument" with these few lines. Can't argue logically so you have to get a little dig in there? I'm not getting stressed, I haven't seen anyone getting stressed. Does it make you feel better to think that someone is freaking out IRL over this? And btw, I don't "need" to believe that I am right, LOL, I am right. Mana up is useless after you use that initial increase to your mp pool. How can you argue any different? I don't disagree that the initial increase can be helpful in certain situations, but after you use that up, until you sit and regen to full mp, the mana up SA is not doing anything for you.
(Idiotic simplification of numbers about to follow):
30 minutes to spend 2500 mp (no mana up)
36 minutes to spend 3000 mp (mana up)
(this is based on 83.3 mp spent per minute)
12 minutes to regen 2500 mp
14.4 minutes to regen 3000 mp
(based on Ple-Chan's calculations w/ a slight adjustment for accuracy)
30 + 12 = 42 minutes (no mana up)
36 + 14.4 = 50.4 minutes (mana up)
Now we want to make these two numbers equal for better comparison. We'll add 8.4 minutes to the non-mana up to make them equal. 28.5% of our time is spent regening mp, so I'll subtract 2.4 minutes from that, leaving us with 6 extra minutes of spending mp for the non mana-up person.
6 extra minutes x 83 mp per minute = 498 mp!!!
So in the EXACT same amount of time (50.4 minutes) you spend the EXACT same amount of mp (2500 + 498 = 2998).
The point is, w/ Mana Up you sit just as much as w/o Mana Up, the difference is that you w/ mana up you go longer but sit longer, w/o mana up, you sit more often but for not as long. In the end, your actual amount of mp usage is EXACTLY the SAME. Mana Up has its uses (raids, certain characters in the festivals, etc.) when you need a lot of mp in a short period of time but for anything longer than one full mp bar it is useless.