Kinda looks to me things are not quite balanced with that new patch on PTS. What do we get ? Soul Crystals wont ever brake up while you level them ( wich means you can get them for free actually ) or you can just go and buy a level 10 one from the Luxury. So after this you have to go and level it to 11/12/13 on whatever boss is needed ( wich is doable daily by the bigger ally's on server's ) and woha, there you go, you get your A/S grade weapons SA's. It might cost abit, but it's 100% guaranteed. As for me being a gladi ( same goes for BD's or any other class that wishes to use duals with SA ) this looks kinda unbalanced. Not only i have to craft 2x60% A grades to get S duals ( it's in the near future i'd imagine, im just thinking for it now :P ) but i have to risk them going to +4, or use blessed EWS wich costs another fortune and if i fail i either need to craft again or try enchanting again (to +3 then blessed ). Calculating the adena that this would cost and that i only have again around 60% chance to get a SA it seems kinda unfair to me.
And no i dont have enough adena to buy a +4 S duals. I dont even have adena to buy +4 A grade ones >.<
Lucky you, I don't even have enough Adena/mats to buy/craft unplussed A grade ones :p so my char is on hold until I save enough on my alt.
I do agree though, it's unfair on BD and Glads that we have to risk a LOT of money getting to +4
Yeah 11/12/13 crystals are still going to be fairly hard to lvl because of the bosses that they require but it's still a lot safer that a rubbish % of success there is on +4 duals, especially at A grade.
Ill say that duals should at least be able to be safely enchanted to +4. The SA crystals I like because of the fact that im a healer. Such a pain to lvl crystals with no mana regen and constantly breaking at lvl 2. >< In all due time everything will be balanced...then L3 comes around
You need to +4 to get an SA to compensate for how regular weapons can only be made at 60% for A/S Grade. its very fair imo. Keep in mind my Arcana Mace will fail being crafted and I'll get nothing... you get crystals
Except that S grade requires quite a lot more mats that doing the tallum blade and the DLE. It also means you don't need S grade recipes -- the recipe alone for a draconic bow on my server could almost buy the Tallum blade and DLE premade. It's worth thirty times the cost of any A grade weapon recipe, which you can buy the coins for pretty easily. You can also get the Tallum blade from the subclass quest, so you only need to craft the DLE.
Further, the SA on those duals is vastly better than any SA on anything else.
There are pros and cons to each. On my own server the Tallum Blade*DLE + 4 is the cheapest S grade w/ SA I've seen. Hell in S grade I might go for that, because it's cheap and it's got some really nice SA.
You need to +4 to get an SA to compensate for how regular weapons can only be made at 60% for A/S Grade. its very fair imo. Keep in mind my Arcana Mace will fail being crafted and I'll get nothing... you get crystals
S duals are 2x60%. I need to craft TWICE and succeed to get S duals. Not to mention it costs another 3.5kk AA to dual the DLE/Tallum. Point is once you get your S grade weapon, you have a 100% SA. Even if it takes abit more time. I can fail 10 times in a row for +4.
A to S grade is a bad comparison as prices haven't settled yet. In the end, your SA is free (when you +4) as many players with other weapons do anyways. On top of that, duals are generally some of the cheapest weapons (compare BOPs to dual tsu*sls). Yes there is no 100% route, but in exchange the SA is free. Many things are like this in L2. There are no 100% A recs...unless you are a dual sword user. Then you can go ahead and make dual A grade swords at 100% craft. I think that's unfair. If you want SAs from soul crystals, your swords should fail combines at a 60% rate.
No, you're happy with how it is now that you think it over? Ok.
S duals are 2x60%. I need to craft TWICE and succeed to get S duals.
On my server, buying an already crafted DLE and Tallum blade together costs about 150 mil.
Buying just the 60% recipe for a Draconic bow costs 120 mil. Then there are the 136 mil worth of key items, and the additional 100 mil worth of materials that have a 40% chance to vanish in your face.
In fact on my server for the cost of gathering all the craft materials for a draconic bow (which only have a 60% chance to make the bow itself!) costs about the same as the +4 duals themselves.
To make the duals +4 (buying all items from sell shops) you need:
Tallum Blade -- 55 mil premade
DLE -- 100 mil premade
4 EW:S -- 105 mil total
Total: 260 mil @ 66% success.
To make a draconic bow with focus (again buying all from sell shops) you need:
Recipe -- 120 mil
Key items -- 130 mil
Materials -- 100 mil
SA level 13 -- 300 mil
Total: 350 mil @ 60% success + 300 mil
Heck, if it's so easy to get an S grade weapon with SA using the soul crystals, make one, sell it, and buy the duals which are cheaper than any other S grade w/ SA (unless you put a really dumb SA on an unpopular weapon or something). I'm serious -- I often craft gear I don't need for the purpose of selling and using the cash to buy gear I do.
As I said, I may well get them myself not because I need duals, but because they are the cheapest S grade w/ SA, and the SA is really, really good.
Oh, and level 10 soul crystals are cheap as dirt. The last one I made took about two hours. That was never a hard part; the hard part has always been stage 11/12/13.
hmm for 150 mil you got a compleet S duel set on Dev
x4 S srolls=200 mil
makes 350 mil adena's ofcourse not funny if it blows but hey you got 66% it's successfull :) at least it gives you S crystals :)
Actually the S crystal point is good. When you fail a craft, you get nothing at all back; failing an overenchant at least gives crystals. For the Tallum Blade*DLE, you get 1973 S crystals, which on Lionna is about 108 million back.
Effectively, Lionna prices:
Duals +4: 260 mil + 150 mil/failure
Drac Bow w/ Focus: 650 Mil + 350 mil/failure
You know, I actually agree with you. I remember when I first saw that "that" was how you used two weapons. All I could think of was "what the hell were the developers smoking?".
There really isn't any reason for it. It's just another example of the "artificiality" of the game. Goes hand in hand with "why do male dwarves and female dwarves not look like they come from the same game?", "why do wyverns only become wyverns because of a castle", "Why do dwarves 'spoil & sweep' crafting materials from bodies?", "why do you plant seeds on bodies so you can manor crafting materials", etc.
S duals are 2x60%. I need to craft TWICE and succeed to get S duals.
On my server, buying an already crafted DLE and Tallum blade together costs about 150 mil.
Buying just the 60% recipe for a Draconic bow costs 120 mil. Then there are the 136 mil worth of key items, and the additional 100 mil worth of materials that have a 40% chance to vanish in your face.
In fact on my server for the cost of gathering all the craft materials for a draconic bow (which only have a 60% chance to make the bow itself!) costs about the same as the +4 duals themselves.
To make the duals +4 (buying all items from sell shops) you need:
Tallum Blade -- 55 mil premade
DLE -- 100 mil premade
4 EW:S -- 105 mil total
Total: 260 mil @ 66% success.
To make a draconic bow with focus (again buying all from sell shops) you need:
Recipe -- 120 mil
Key items -- 130 mil
Materials -- 100 mil
SA level 13 -- 300 mil
Total: 350 mil @ 60% success + 300 mil
Heck, if it's so easy to get an S grade weapon with SA using the soul crystals, make one, sell it, and buy the duals which are cheaper than any other S grade w/ SA (unless you put a really dumb SA on an unpopular weapon or something). I'm serious -- I often craft gear I don't need for the purpose of selling and using the cash to buy gear I do.
As I said, I may well get them myself not because I need duals, but because they are the cheapest S grade w/ SA, and the SA is really, really good.
Oh, and level 10 soul crystals are cheap as dirt. The last one I made took about two hours. That was never a hard part; the hard part has always been stage 11/12/13.
minus 30 mil please from total cost because ur logic is fault... at lvl 75 you can do fate whisper quest, quick turn a SOES (cost 20-24 mil to craft) to a low A grade wep(talum blade, which cost 55mil).., so you only need to craft a DLE atm.
Leveling it off of raidbosses is harder than you think!
Even though statistically it is 60%, usually most people can +4 their duals.
Also you get more damage by enchanting them.
If you actually had to get a Stage 13 Crystal for your S grade, I am pretty sure you would want to go back to your +4.
Edit: But yea, anyways...I don't like the idea of buying the soul crystals, nor being able to level them without breaking. Kinda sucks tbh...when I got my +9 Red Crystal, I was so **** happy after breaking 5 of them before. And now I lvled up some more I have a Blue 5, and a Red 7 in my WH, dunno I guess that was a waste of time, :P
It never takes more than an hour to go stage 1 to 10 on a soul crystal and those were the only areas that they could break anyways. Nothing will change whatsoever as the prices from shops are higher than player prices anyways.
its much cheaper for duals b grade and below so I understand it. There is a huge jump in cost for A grade and A grade enchants. IMO duals b grade and below stay the same. A grade and above use soul crystals.
DLE - 65 M
Stage 12 SC - 70-90 M
gemstones for the SA - 15 ish
You can BUY kesh*kesh +4 for that. You can make your own for less, and one weapon is STILL enchanted in the process of SAing.
At best you have to compare A grade sword + SA + 3 enchants to +4 A Duals. You guys seem to forget nonduals enchant weapons as well. The comparison is TOTALLY out the window if we compare...all +4 weapons. Then the sword takes the same risks as duals but still drops 100 M to SA afterwords.
its much cheaper for duals b grade and below so I understand it. There is a huge jump in cost for A grade and A grade enchants. IMO duals b grade and below stay the same. A grade and above use soul crystals.
120m for a lv 12 soul crystal, 40m for 4 EWA sure a chans to break.
its much cheaper for duals b grade and below so I understand it. There is a huge jump in cost for A grade and A grade enchants. IMO duals b grade and below stay the same. A grade and above use soul crystals.
Duals are ALWAYS the cheapest/easiest weapons to SA, even at A grade. Compare:
* A grade duals have a 66% chance to go to +4
* A grade crafts have a 60% chance to succeed
Advantage: Duals
* A grade duals that blow up on enchant give ~25 mil worth of crystals back
* A grade crafts that fail give nothing back
Advantage: Duals
* A grade duals need 4 EW:A to put an SA on, cost ~60 mil
* A grade crafts need a level 12 crystal + gemstones to put an SA on, cost ~140 mil
Advantage: Duals
* A grade duals that reach +4 also give a large PATK boost in addition to the SA
* A grade crafts that get an SA get only the effect of the SA.
Advantage: Duals
I already did the math above for S grade, showing how duals are cheap to SA (a level 13 crystal alone costs almost as much as the S grade duals +4 premade).
Blow up 2 pairs of kesh*kesh in a row, going to 4 and tell me you feel cost is same as you sell A crystals in town for the next 3 weeks. At least the stupid SA on another weapon has no risk. Im looking at S Duals to OE myself, if it fails, and I have to buy another set to make them, the 13 SA crystal would have been cheaper.
Well if we have to consider also C and B grade duals i think it gets even more unfair ( that's why i didnt put it in the first place in this topic ). The price to make sls*sls is almost the same as to make AOBA ( well abit less but that advantage is lost at a later point ), but then again when you craft that top B ( at 100% ), you just go to luxury, get the crystal, go to a blackmisth, pay 2-3kk and tadaa....you get SA. Even with the old EWB prices ( around 1.5kk ) it would cost 6kk just to get the enchants and you have 66% chance to add the SA. Fair ?
I think it's a good idea to add Blessed Enchants for Duals that only work from +3--->+4. They should equal the cost of the crystal from the luxury store.
It all depends on how many Korean BD/Gladiators complain, i think.
Blow up 2 pairs of kesh*kesh in a row, going to 4 and tell me you feel cost is same as you sell A crystals in town for the next 3 weeks. At least the stupid SA on another weapon has no risk. Im looking at S Duals to OE myself, if it fails, and I have to buy another set to make them, the 13 SA crystal would have been cheaper.
Fail two a grade weapon crafts in a row, and you'll lose even more cash. And you won't get any of those crystals back.
5 pairs of Dual Keshes have poofed going for +4 for me.
I don't know, but after adding it all up, that's anywhere from 650-800mil worth of adena down the freaking tubes. Now try and tell me that the SAing of a +4 set of duals is "cheaper"
Yes cheaper if your bloody lucky several times over. Cause i've failed to craft a DLE or Tallum blade just as many times.
While someone only has to chance something ONCE to get there weapon, people with duals have to chance it SEVERAL times over which in the end results in a less then 60% chance of success, it's more along the lines of 24% chance of success (60% x 60% x 66% all in a row to get 2 weapons and then enchant to +4)
Yes, you can fail 5 SAs in a row. You could also fail 5 A grade crafts in a row. Which is both more expensive and more likely to happen.
As to the chance of S-grade -- Buy the dle/tallum blade premade. Which is still cheaper than buying the materials for most S grade weapons. And you can buy the entire **** weapon already +4 for about the cost of a level 13 soul crystal.
When you chose to attempt +4ing the duals yourself, you accepted the risks, just like when someone crafts an A weapon.
If you don't want to take the risks, then buy the weapon premade/preenchanted. On Lionna buying +4 dual kesh costs as much as getting a +3 SAed low A weapon.
Dude, Judas, what server do you play on? Lionna you can buy a +5 Kesh*Kesh for 200m. Well under the price of most of the popular +3 A grade weapons with SA.
its much cheaper for duals b grade and below so I understand it. There is a huge jump in cost for A grade and A grade enchants. IMO duals b grade and below stay the same. A grade and above use soul crystals.
120m for a lv 12 soul crystal, 40m for 4 EWA sure a chans to break.
PS then 20m more min to put the SA in as well.
So it's not truthfully much cheaper at all.
difference is my clan will help me level a stage 12 FOR FREE and I cant do the same with A grade enchants. If you could guarantee that duals would succeed enchant the second time around then it would be cheaper. Once you blow two sets of duals you start getting in the hole big time.
Soul crystals are free for those that want to work for them. It really isnt very difficult at all. A grade enchants...to get them 'for free' would take a few days of a full team in the catas 24 hours a day and thats just for four of em and no guarantee.
Anyway, I stand by my point b grade and below no SA crystal A grade and above require SA crystal.
difference is my clan will help me level a stage 12 FOR FREE and I cant do the same with A grade enchants. If you could guarantee that duals would succeed enchant the second time around then it would be cheaper. Once you blow two sets of duals you start getting in the hole big time.
The 66% chance to enchant to +4 balances out because everyone else has a 60% chance to even successfully craft the weapon. You have a 100% chance to craft that A grade weapon, and failing a weapon craft is a larger setback (moneywise) than failing an enchant, as well as being more likely. You can also use a blessed EW:A on the fourth enchant to guarantee no loss of the weapon, nobody else gets "blessed recipes" that prevent you from losing the craft items if they fail.
Soul crystals are free for those that want to work for them. It really isnt very difficult at all. A grade enchants...to get them 'for free' would take a few days of a full team in the catas 24 hours a day and thats just for four of em and no guarantee.
Get a bounty hunter and go to the rift if you want those EW:A for free. For the vast majority of people, getting enchant weapons for free is far more doable than getting a stage 12 soul crystal for free. Further, if you CAN get stage 12 soul crystals free, get one, sell it, and you can buy eight EW:A or so.
Hell if you have a clan that does bosses to level crystals, take a castle, and get those EW:A incredibly cheap.
If you really wanted to add SAs without risk, then are you willing to accept the same risk as everyone else -- that is, when making A grade duals, would you be OK with them adding a 40% chance to fail to turn your two swords into duals, causing the total loss of both swords and the money spent on making them duals? That's the odds everyone else lives with.
difference is my clan will help me level a stage 12 FOR FREE and I cant do the same with A grade enchants.
Not true. My old clan used to collect Blessed EW: A from raid boss drops. They would distribute them to classes that needed +4 on their dual swords, such as gladiators and bladedancers.
problem is most b grade recipes that can be found or hunted within some sort of time frame are 60%. Ideally yes, it is possible to get them at 100% but I can tell you that it isnt likely. Sure, A grade can be argued but when you get to S grade and when things go above S grade where is your argument when EWS are 40 mil or more each. Wait, that means you have to craft two A grade weapons too! So thats two chances to fail for one S grade weapon then another chance to fail at +4.
I dont see how that point could possibly be argued.
difference is my clan will help me level a stage 12 FOR FREE and I cant do the same with A grade enchants.
Not true. My old clan used to collect Blessed EW: A from raid boss drops. They would distribute them to classes that needed +4 on their dual swords, such as gladiators and bladedancers.
yes, that is possible but in c5 with raids the way they are its a lot less likely. My clan can do rift with 9 people to level a soul crystal and if by chance we get the 4-5 parties to do a normal raid we would have to recruit outside.
Yes, it is possible to hope for ewa's from raids that are very difficult to do and still blow up your weapon. I am willing to concede on A grade but for S grade and above duals should switch to blades and a 60% recipe like everything else and have an soul crystals.
Level a soul crystal in the right to 13...sure. You seem to neglect the getting to stage 12 part and the 100 M there.
Dual SA is free at +4. Many players +4 their weapons anyways. Compare a +4 Soulbow w/ SA to a +4 kesh*kesh +4. The price is absurdly cheap for the duals. It is cheaper to get a set of dual kesh +4 then it is to get a +4 soulbow WITHOUT an SA on Hindemith. You're 100 M cheaper comparing +4 weapons and still far cheaper comparing +3 weapons w/ SA to +4 duals with SA.
Don't tell me "for free." There is no such thing. People talk about crafting items "for free" out of mats they hunt and pretend the currency is the only thing with value. Whether you lose mats or a stage 12 crystal, the item has a particular value on the market. That value is based upon supply and demand; it cannot simply be neglected in the evaluation of cost. Trying to compare weapons at no soul crystal cost is simply absurd. Could trade a soul crystal stage 12 for 10 A enchants a last month. That's enough to try two sets of swords and still have leftovers.
Finally, would you really carry a set of +0 swords while everyone else carries +4 items? Your SA is free, you are getting a steal.
I already said I concede to A grade and I am wrong about the costs. S grade 40m*4=120mil wow ok I just bought a level 12 soul crystal right there if I didnt go and level it myself. You cant lose a stage 12 crystals dont break after 10.
As stated, A grade you guys are right, S grade its not right to have to face 3 60% chances to fail and to have to pay an extra 120mil for one of those potential fails.
Not the way you get the SA is wrong, the SA itself is wrong. S and A duals just have crappy SAs. Blue glowing low A duals is a way, but most ppl go for even more glowing B duals.
As for S grade, what is a BD/Glad doing with more hp/mp/cp? PvP, usefull maybe, but PvE crap. Normal S weapons got usefull SAs PvP and PvE wise.
S weapon enchants are just out of whack still. It will take another 6 months or so for prices to normalize there, it is only more observable for S duals because they are more obtainable weapons than regular S weapons (zero risk).
problem is most b grade recipes that can be found or hunted within some sort of time frame are 60%. Ideally yes, it is possible to get them at 100% but I can tell you that it isnt likely. Sure, A grade can be argued but when you get to S grade and when things go above S grade where is your argument when EWS are 40 mil or more each. Wait, that means you have to craft two A grade weapons too! So thats two chances to fail for one S grade weapon then another chance to fail at +4.
I dont see how that point could possibly be argued.
Yes, the A weapons can fail (or you can just buy both A weapons already made), but each failure is much, much cheaper to recover from.
Worst case, you blow up a DLE craft and lose 60m in mats. You fail an S grade craft like a draconic bow, you lose 360 mil.
In fact it's cheaper to buy the DLE and tallum blade already crafted than it is to buy the Drac bow rec and key items.
Here's my cost analysis from before:
------------------------------------------------
To make the duals +4 (buying all items from sell shops) you need:
Tallum Blade -- 55 mil premade
DLE -- 100 mil premade
4 EW:S -- 105 mil total
Total: 260 mil @ 66% success. Failure gives back ~110 mil in crystals.
To make a draconic bow with focus (again buying all from sell shops) you need:
Recipe -- 120 mil
Key items -- 130 mil
Materials -- 100 mil
SA level 13 -- 300 mil
Total: 350 mil @ 60% success + 300 mil. Failing the craft obviously doesn't consume the soul crystal.
----------------------------------------------
Overall, the net costs:
Tallum*DLE + 4:
260 mil + 150 mil for each time you fail, 33% chance of failing.
Draconic Bow +0 w/ Focus:
650 mil + 350 mil for each time you fail, 40% chance of failing.
Draconic Bow assuming the SA is somehow obtained for free:
350 mil + 350 mil for each time you fail, 40% chance of failing.
Even if you DO get the level 13 crystal absolutely free, the Draconic bow is more expensive to craft.
Not the way you get the SA is wrong, the SA itself is wrong. S and A duals just have crappy SAs. Blue glowing low A duals is a way, but most ppl go for even more glowing B duals.
As for S grade, what is a BD/Glad doing with more hp/mp/cp? PvP, usefull maybe, but PvE crap. Normal S weapons got usefull SAs PvP and PvE wise.
I use +11 nightmares for my bd. Only weapon above B grade with a decent SA is dle*tal w/ the nice pvp stats w/ cp/hp/mp bonuses.
S weapon enchants are just out of whack still. It will take another 6 months or so for prices to normalize there, it is only more observable for S duals because they are more obtainable weapons than regular S weapons (zero risk).
This is where I think you're wrong. I cant remember the last time I have seen an EWA for under 13 mil and now they are back up at 18 mil. I dont think EWS will go much below 35 mil for the next 3 chronicles.
It's nice that you take the Drac bow route considering its the single handedly most expensive S grade craft due to the high demand, So you basically try to stomp on my argument by taking the most expensively possible scenario and applying it to your case. To my case you try to provide the least expensive possibility and then try to show it as an even comparison, I hope you arent in charge of any real studies ;D
Now, since you want to take the most expensive you should allign that with the worst case scenario for duals
40% chance fail, 40% chance faik, 33% chance fail (according to some test done by someone I have no idea who so who even knows if this is really 33%).
Othere S grade weapons are signifigantly cheaper than a Drac bow around the 200m range for top S grade and not the 360m range for drac bow.
Either way I disagree, I think S grade infinity wing should adjust to recipe w/ mats and go ahead and add a soul crystal which would mean it would cost the same mats and require a recipe as a drac bow or any other S grade. Also, 4 ews is only 105 mil? I must have missed something because I dont see them under 35 if not 40 at current market prices which means 160m-135m ^%^^^^
S weapon enchants are just out of whack still. It will take another 6 months or so for prices to normalize there, it is only more observable for S duals because they are more obtainable weapons than regular S weapons (zero risk).
This is where I think you're wrong. I cant remember the last time I have seen an EWA for under 13 mil and now they are back up at 18 mil. I dont think EWS will go much below 35 mil for the next 3 chronicles.
Guess we are lucky on Sieghardt with 9-10M for EWA then.
It's nice that you take the Drac bow route considering its the single handedly most expensive S grade craft due to the high demand, So you basically try to stomp on my argument by taking the most expensively possible scenario and applying it to your case. To my case you try to provide the least expensive possibility and then try to show it as an even comparison, I hope you arent in charge of any real studies ;D
Even in the average case, it still is better for the duals.
Angel Slayer w/ SA:
470 mil + 170 mil for each time you fail (40% chance)
Arcana Mace w/ SA:
480 mil + 180 mil for each time you fail (40% chance)
Even a basalt battlehammer or dragon hunter axe costs more to make than the duals unless you fail a lot.
Here are the average craft prices (the prices you pay, on average, if you try to craft an item and keep crafting until success) This takes into account both the odds of failure and the price of failure into account. If you craft items to sell you'd need to sell above these to earn money on average. Obviously the actual costs can be more/less than these depending on number of fails, this is effectively assuming an average number of failures (that is, all crafts fail at 40%, all OEs fail at 33%):
Draconic Bow: 883 mil
Arcana Mace: 600 mil
Angel Slayer: 583 mil
Basalt Battlehammer: 450 mil
Dragon Hunter Axe: 446 mil
Tallum*DLE+4 buying the A swords premade: 337 mil
Tallum*DLE+4 crafting the A swords as well: 315 mil
Some hypothetical scenarios:
Tallum*DLE crafting the A swords if you could use a level 13 crystal instead of +4ing it: 448 mil (42% price increase)
Arcana Mace +4 if you didn't need the level 13 crystal but could SA at +4: 400 mil (33% price decrease)
End result of analysis: Tallum*DLE is the cheapest S grade to get an SA on (this is reflected in the market prices, where it's the cheapest S grade with SA), and changing the method to using soul crystals would, on average, make it considerably more expensive. Weapons using level 13 crystals would become considerably cheaper if they could be +4d instead.
His excuse will be that he has to do a 60% DLE craft, a 60% tallum craft, and then a 66% enchant. Leaving you a 25% chance of success. It's funny to note, however, that even at 25%...the statistics say that on the average it is far cheaper than the regular S weapons.
Did some other math, if they did change it to use soul crystals, it would raise the cost in 89% of all crafts of the +4 duals -- it would only reduce cost for the remaining 11% of crafts.
Even a basalt battlehammer or dragon hunter axe costs more to make than the duals unless you fail a lot.
It's important to note...statistically speaking, you will fail the axe more often than the duals enchant.
66% according to some test over a sample of only 100 swords of a single grade on a lineage 2 chronicle 1 server. I hate to say it but thats not a very good sample.
I have to do my own calculations, have to go to work going to double check your mathin and price basing when I get home tonight. I could be wrong by all means but I want to be sure everything is being accuratly interpreted!
66% according to some test over a sample of only 100 swords of a single grade on a lineage 2 chronicle 1 server. I hate to say it but thats not a very good sample.
No, the-site-which-cannot-be-named has stats from C4 as well, of over 2500 items of all grades on the live servers.
And in Prelude, there was a trick to measure enchant success without actually enchanting. The same set of duals could be used to run thousands of tests. The numbers for enchants do not appear to have changed between then and the C4 Ari mentions. That creates a 5k + database of enchant measurement. Those values are accurate.
Also, his material prices would influence both S duals crafting and S weapon crafting. The only way he could misinterpret the pricing would be to simply break the ratios of actual required materials. Though the stage 13 crystal would factor against these values as well. As you can see, 3 or 5 M off on enchant prices isn't going to influence the factors...and the weapon is still +0 not +3 which is the minimum comparison. I still say you have to compare +4 Angel Slayer with +4 DLE*tallum and then the S grade duals are absurdly cheaper.
No word on C/B duals also ?
Some more maths about prices and crafting ?
You dont get it, dont ya ? Did you see me complaining for the way things are NOW ? No, not a single time. I am speaking AFTER that new patch hits the live servers. Turns up i have to risk C/B duals to blow for something the others just need to visit the luxury and have no chance to fail. Also ALOT more 12/13's will be produced as a result of that ( hard to believe but for now leveling soul crystals is NOT so easy, you may do 3 lvl 10's in a day, then break all others you try in the next 3 days ). Wich in a way reflects upon A/S duals and A/S weapons. It's not a tradeoff anymore, that's my point, but you're all too busy calculating stuff >.<
No word on C/B duals also ?
Some more maths about prices and crafting ?
You dont get it, dont ya ? Did you see me complaining for the way things are NOW ? No, not a single time. I am speaking AFTER that new patch hits the live servers. Turns up i have to risk C/B duals to blow for something the others just need to visit the luxury and have no chance to fail. Also ALOT more 12/13's will be produced as a result of that ( hard to believe but for now leveling soul crystals is NOT so easy, you may do 3 lvl 10's in a day, then break all others you try in the next 3 days ). Wich in a way reflects upon A/S duals and A/S weapons. It's not a tradeoff anymore, that's my point, but you're all too busy calculating stuff >.<
What? Leveling crystals is in no way difficult. I regularly make crystals on Hindemith to sell to Kiffy's shop when it's up. You can make a level 10 every hour of play with ease at FG. Getting lucky you may be able to create three in an hour. The price in the luxury shop is also reflective of current prices in shops anyways, so it does nothing to change the market. If anything, it holds the prices via a set value from an NPC which solidifies the expense.
At the end of the day, all that matters is cost and as much as you may cry about things, the calculations are how you anticipate the market (real life, video game, that's investing so get over it).
On Hinde Tsu*Sls +4 = 44M
Tsu*Tsu +4 = 30 M
A sword of Damascus +3 w/ focus = 62 M
A sword of Damascus +4 w/ focus = 70 M
Hell even the sword of Damascus = 45 M...making the +0 one handed more expensive at B grade than your +4 SAd weapon.
Every +3 SAd weapon has a value greater than dual swords and +4 or greater B grade weapons are absurdly expensive compared to +6 Tsu*Tsu for 45 M. Are you honestly stupid enough to think that a crystal worth 1 M adena becoming 10% cheaper or more expensive on the market is going to shift the value of nondual weapons by 50% so they are cheaper?
You can think whatever you want, the fact remains that the ACTUAL prices are all that matter. At the end of the day, your math doesn't add up, and ours does. So if you're in high school, back to algebra. If you're in college, go back to high school...or at least make sure you get a job where the lives of other human beings doesn't hang in the balance of your ability to add.
Had to finish class change yesterday and at work now so havent had time to post my reply but I will try today.
I dont think A grade and below really needs to be argued any more. I think it is blatantly obvious that it is cheaper even if you fail once the prices are about the same as a normal weapon would have cost with its SA. Usually people dont fail a third time and sometimes you succeed the first time.
Anyway, I forgot all about that site that cannot be mentioned that info should help in my data colleciton.
Even S grade is cheaper, which is why I'm strongly against changing it -- dual swords will be the S grade that's best for me and it's also the cheapest :p
Well it does seem that S grade is equal or some cheaper depending on what weapon you would take so that seems fine. Yes, I am a bd but overall B grade duals are probably the best and the cheapest but that pvp hp/cp/mp bonus looks pretty good on the top S grade. Shoot, when ewb's were 1.5 mil not so long ago you could make mid grade b duals with 76 crit bonus at 10 mil a pop plus OE so you could buy 10 sets of duals with 100 ewb's at 250mil, I would rather go for a +16 b grade at those prices than A/S. To each their own I suppose.