"Unchaotic character: No items are dropped at death."
Can anyone give a good reason why (they think) this was implemented? As I see it, the net effect will be less PvP and uber bots.
Does anyone, besides me, agree that this effectively eliminates most of the point to any character with switch and/or fake death skills? Seeing as there are so so so many professional players utilizing illegitimate/illegal methods, how can we have any hope of effectively deterring them?
I'm just glad I saw these before I wasted another level 40+ Rouge toon by classing poorly. Sadly, I was really looking forward to giving a dagger a go. ;)
"Unchaotic character: No items are dropped at death."
Can anyone give a good reason why (they think) this was implemented? As I see it, the net effect will be less PvP and uber bots.
Does anyone, besides me, agree that this effectively eliminates most of the point to any character with switch and/or fake death skills? Seeing as there are so so so many professional players utilizing illegitimate/illegal methods, how can we have any hope of effectively deterring them?
I'm just glad I saw these before I wasted another level 40+ Rouge toon by classing poorly. Sadly, I was really looking forward to giving a dagger a go. ;)
nope.
the reason for this is to attact some flies. cause apparently you get more with sugar than you do with horse liniment.
To hell with everyone who cries about this. If I had to chose between losing gear to lag deaths and training people to get gear... as opposed to not losing gear at all... then ****it, I would rather keep my gear.
1. You can now train with no loss (making it safer to train)
2. Training the bots are now even more effective since they lose money and they will eventually not be able to fight where they are.
Well, perhaps this will lead to more petitions, since the self-gain option has been removed from the scenario choice when encountering them .......and perhaps thus more bans, which would be better for the game in the long run.
Well, perhaps this will lead to more petitions, since the self-gain option has been removed from the scenario choice when encountering them .......and perhaps thus more bans, which would be better for the game in the long run.
This of course presumes that reporting them has any effect... I am cynical, at best, that it helps.... Furthermore, I have to create a dialy list and report en masse, otherwise I would run out of petitions within 5 minutes of game time.
One good suggestion would be to allow copy & paste of a toons name somehow to the clipboard then back again to a petition window... It can be **** time consuming to pm test the spellings of many farmer toons.
Griefers will still grief as they get to cause you 4% xp loss. They really need no other reason to do what they do than it will tick you off. Makes the 4% xp loss actually still a bonus for them.
I find it funny how ppl think that in every update it is to help bots and not players.
Well I for one am happy I can't drop my A grade helm to some kelter or something. You shouldn't be making money off of bots anyway... :p
You don't drop when flagged, and u even have less chance when red, so that means...MORE PVP and PK! :D
The only reason I train bots is so they go away and I can party with my pals!
But maybe since NC seems to be banning and doing a good job of late, we won't have to worry about it so much.
And your right, I was gonna sub a TH so I could silent step back to my dropped A grade helm surrounded by blood thirsty kelters. But now...I just may sub my destroyer like I wanted to before anyway! :D
I don't think it will effect PvP at all. If anything, people will be able to keep their gear and be able to level up without worry to levels where why might want to pvp more.
As I've said in another thread, you can't change gameplay elements just because there are bots. You can change the client to deal with them, change the way gm's handle them, but that's about it.
Fake death was not created to train people. It's used that way but I highly doubt that that is its purpose.
This is a good thing. At least to average players. perhaps we will get more of them which is only good for the game.
Griefers will still grief as they get to cause you 4% xp loss. They really need no other reason to do what they do than it will tick you off. Makes the 4% xp loss actually still a bonus for them.
Quite a few griefers simply grief to get gear off other players. Now thats gone.
Griefers will still grief as they get to cause you 4% xp loss. They really need no other reason to do what they do than it will tick you off. Makes the 4% xp loss actually still a bonus for them.
Quite a few griefers simply grief to get gear off other players. Now thats gone.
And to hell with em. I worked too hard to get my gear for it to get dropped cause some nub feels like griefing.
I don't think it will effect PvP at all. If anything, people will be able to keep their gear and be able to level up without worry to levels where why might want to pvp more.
Hell yeah. Especially in hunting areas... where we used to worry about silenced/ stunned/ rooted while taking aggro during pvp.
im prolly one of the few ppl who like this change (hate every other one)
the pvp is way to fast and unblanced in l2. all a wartag has to do is walk up to you while xpping nuke you 2 or 3 times and they have wiped off 90% of your hp, not hard at that point for a mob to get last hit (happened to me lost dc boots)
worse yet they can just land para at about 60% or silence at about 70% and down you go
im more conserned about the item changes that will essentially turn all pvp into a potion fight
on gustin if you go to pvp with one of the "good" pvpers the second you hit them its like a friggn fireworks display of potion spam
now add this
1. Quick affective potions(ima call them QAP from now on) added
1) QAP for escaping have been added as following
-QHP – recover HP
-QMP – recover MP
-QCPP – recover CP
nukers instantly recovering 2k hp and cp
and this
4. The following items has been changed to lighter weight
1) Soul ores : from 10 to 5
2) CP pot : 110 to 25
3) Greater CP pot : 500 to 100
5. The reuse time for cp and greater cp pot has been decreased now
great
so not only can a nuker hold 5 times more pots but they can also spam them faster
Yes, the best farming is totally at level 4... positive change for new chars coming to game. Lots of players want to play classes to 15 or 20 to get a feel for them before they pick. Now you can make 1st class change and change your mind safely. +1 for that
It's another necro nerf. During war, I use to be able to anchor my oppenents while they were xping, so that they would not only die for 4%, but also have a chance at dropping gear. Of course NC soft screwed it up again, and it actually nerfs Sk/Warlock more since they don't even need to be in war to 333333333.
Good = not dropping that piece of equipment you worked so hard for (assuming you dont ebay :p) when some PvP loser takes it out on your newbie character.
Bad = Killing/Training on bots just for fun now, not for loot :)
Quite a few griefers simply grief to get gear off other players. Now thats gone.
My thougths exactly. Getting your gear is hard enough (if you are a legit player). Risking to loose it because of a bad pull or a lag spike or a griefer is ugly. As for botters, I can do much. I can't train them myself and it's NC's problem to solve. So, yes I believe the "no drop concept" is to the right direction. PvP on the other hand will not be affected a bit.
I quite like the idea of not dropping items that took me months to save up for.
But i recon this patch will help out cheaters. They will be able to carry around multiple sets of items now depending on whether they are pve, pvp and need pdef, pvp and need mdef. And they wont have to worry about dropping items when they die.
I quite like the idea of not dropping items that took me months to save up for.
But i recon this patch will help out cheaters. They will be able to carry around multiple sets of items now depending on whether they are pve, pvp and need pdef, pvp and need mdef. And they wont have to worry about dropping items when they die.
Able to carry around multiple sets? Are you a dwarf? If so, you shouldn't even be having multiple sets with you :p
hehe, people complain that changes always help automated players. And yet they whine that they cant get gear back because they die due to lag and a mob, then the server crashes and their gear is gone. Alot of people work for their gear and don't wanna lose it for some crap reason like that.
I say people, because they are people. You're not the only one who feels this way so I used a broader word. Yes, this is Lineage 2, and you can drop stuff when you die, lol. Alot of people find it frustrating having invested alot of time in the manor system and crafting, only to lose the gear due to server issues. Now they changed it. Yes the bots benefit, but so does the legit player.
I like the change... they make the red penalty a more effective penalty, as the more they die before they can get this death curse off the more difficult it will be for them to survive. Being red is a joke now on my server and I assume many others.. they are protected, karma washed, and sequestered away to the deepest depths of hunting grounds after they have PK'd the hell out of people. At least this gives them some cause to be more cautious, they will die and get worse at fighting AND have a chance to drop gear.
As far as the comment that what are switch, fake death, etc good for? Why does everyone always assume they are meant o be used on players? Those are last ditch skills.. like UE and UD... you use those to try and get mobs off you, their primary goal is NOT to get them ON other players... that was just a use that players decided to use them for, as it's a byproduct of the way the skill works + the way L2 handles social aggro and aggro transfer. Switch has some limited ability for this, but it's like a reverse hate... it's meant to get something off of you and onto somone else that can hopefully handle it.
Not dropping items on death makes L2 a little less hardcore, a little easier, and I think that makes our game a little less unique and special.
I also rememver the old days when you could drop items from PvP, including being PKed by a much higher level red, so that some players earned their money by PKing new ones. When they did away with that I thought the game was becoming too mild, but I adjusted. So I suspect that I will also adjust to this change.
I have an alt dwarf with a shot making business. I get most of my crystals (perhaps 70%) by crushing items bots drop when I train them. This will cause my crystal costs to go up, so I will raise my shot prices. I wouldn't be surprised to see shots go up across the boards since we will no longer have the wealth transfer from b*ts to players.
A big question will be the impact of the death de-buffs on automated players. They sometimes delevel so they tend to die a lot more than real players. If the hassel/expense of removing the de-buff is significant enough to make the lifespan of a b*t relatively short, then it might be a good thing in the war against b*ts.
I expect that the creative L2 player community will come up with new ways to harrass cheaters (automated players), at least I hope so.
Some of the people I have talked to in game have been very negative towards this change. They feel that NCSoft is making a radical change without thinking through on the implications of it. I think that they may be wrong in this line of thought because they are starting out with the assumption that NCSoft is less than competent. Hang on a minute, the Lineage series is a huge worldwide success, they have other successful games, this is a wonderfully complex game, all of which implies that NCSoft actually has their s**t together in a powerful way. They are running a successful, highly technical multi-national corporation. So, if we assume that NCSoft does know what they are doing, let's wait and see how this all shakes out. We may just end up pleasantly surprised at the long term impact of these changes.
hmm people who dont like the drop rate never got DC IN A NECRO/CATA BY SERVER PROBLEEMS i tell you when you wear stuff of mil's of adena's you realy get a sweet drop on your forhead sinds the NPC SERVER DONT CRASH INSTANTLY
A big question will be the impact of the death de-buffs on automated players. They sometimes delevel so they tend to die a lot more than real players. If the hassel/expense of removing the de-buff is significant enough to make the lifespan of a b*t relatively short, then it might be a good thing in the war against b*ts.
I expect that the creative L2 player community will come up with new ways to harrass cheaters (automated players), at least I hope so.
I really hope that deleveling will make bots less effective so that at least some of the Adena, Inc. companies give up.
hmm deleveling is mostly used by bot's but some toons XP/SP are not balanced or they have to many skills so they will be alwas forced to buy SP scrolls witch cost quite a bit for the 100,000 SP's at level 6x the 100K sp is a laugh
Able to carry around multiple sets? Are you a dwarf? If so, you shouldn't even be having multiple sets with you :p
BS - I play an OL and I always have two sets (one partial) of armor while I play. These are a full set of Heavy armor, and the main parts of a Robe set. (For the extra MP)
I start with the robes, buff, then change to the Heavy while we grind (Or I solo). I leave most of the sleep/healing to our other OL or SE's and I still have enough MP to pull off a few heal/sleeps when needed while regening enough MP for the next round of buffs. (Seals are almost completely useless and a waste of MP 90% of the time in a regular group.) Even in Heavy armor I have enough MP for all but one of my buffs (Berserk) at full, and to cast that takes maybe 30 more seconds. I don't have a Mana Up or Conversion weapon nor the BtS buff but this still means 'buffing on the go' is more of a problem for our SE's than it is for me.
I may not carry 20K shots on me, but thats your problem not mine. :p
I think no drops with an unchaotic is good. On a couple of occasions I dropped my BW stuff when I died and was in a state of panic hoping (and fortunately he did) that my bf could get to me before someone else did. Now I'm A grade and saving for stupidly expensive gear the thought that one mob could kill me and I'd drop the 150mil circlet I'd saved forever for would make me too afraid to wear the stuff which totally defeates the object of the game. Now at least when I eventually do have it I can be proud of my achievement and not worry that a week later I'll be back where I started and no B grade to fall back on.
I don't see the death penalty as an impact on bots.. why? cured with a scroll or by an npc. Worst case? they level bots to a point, sell the account. start over. So you see a higher turnover of bots with slightly more thought out names.. I don't see it hindering them more than a week of adjustment. This also means they will be able to have better equipment (especially raid boss farmers) and run with leaner meaner groups without fear of dropping items.
I've funded myself, and even geared some toons with the "help" of dead bots... and losing that is a bit of apain, but it's been moving towards that realm anyways.. harder to train in general in areas, the party priority for dropped items, the nerf of summoner classes to be all but unable to train. It's not your grandaddy's trains anymore!
And it does make the game a bit less "hardcore" but hardly less unique.. it's not unique in it's harsh grind or harsh penalties.. but it is hardly a sparkling gem that can afford to have the player base atrophy into nothingness.
If that means appealing more to a mainstream flavor, a la WoW, then that is what will happen.
Players being able to drop hurts the game and the legit player more than it would ever hurt the farmers.
Sure farmers have to replace gear, but usually that gear is junk C grade. Sometimes a huge stack of mats. No doubt money out of their pockets, but with the new pickup rule, and forcelogging, their losses are minimal.
Our gear is becomming increasingly more valuable. Yes A helms are comming down, but due to +6 set bonuses, many players are buying/crafting multiples of certain armor pieces. The net worth of their gear goes up and up. I have seen +6 doom pieces for 80-100 mill.
I havent really seen +6 A stuff floating around, but I know it is out there. Ebayers will do what they gottta do to get the advantage. And believe me if they drop that gear they are gonna replace it.
And that is a huge bank for farmers. Farmers sell lots of full items they get as drops, they sell lots of key mats and mats that go in to the crafting, they sell the enchants, they sell the AA.
And of course they sell the adena to pay for all the above.
As I said training hurt the farmers, but to REALLY hurt them you would need a lot of people training a LOT of farmers 24/7. Something that just isn't gonna happen. The great thing about the patch is it universaly effects the farmers. And it is not dependant on player involvement, although training them will help ; )
I would conceed that this takes a little of the edge off L2, but really its a different game than it was back in the day. Back in the day 1 piece of gear didnt cost as much or more than your weapon.
I wish they would have made it so that you don't drop gear or weapons (equipped or not). But anything else in your invo is dropable. This would hurt farmers, and on the rare occasion hurt players, but not in a way that is at all devestating.
The fact that farmers will not want to delevel their low level toons will hurt. If they delevel to a certain point, they will have to pay a lot of money to purchase scrolls to take the curse off. You need a new scroll for every death.
If they delete the toon and start over, they still have to wait 7 days for that toon to be gone. I think this will have a dramatic effect on the bots. Then again, maybe I have no idea what I am talking about.
1. You can now train with no loss (making it safer to train)
2. Training the bots are now even more effective since they lose money and they will eventually not be able to fight where they are.
(i agree with these but i think you forgot one)
3. training bots is now a COMPLETE waste of time. if you dont like competing with bots for hunting grounds 24/7, this is evidently not the game for you. the rules are tailored for a speciffic audience.
background: two deaths ago, durring a PvP with mobs on me, i died and dropped ring of BO +7 and nightmare boots. my thoughts? [923][cencored][92]ing[3]!! . . . wait, my party has a whole 15 seconds to pick the stuff up anyways, no problem ill get it back . . . *uneasy relief sets in* final thought, while chaos continues over my dead body: wow. really havent died in a few days, and i cant even remember the last time i died and dropped something. guess it was about time :)
current thoughts: ebayers, who i assmue dont craft their A/S grade, have an even larger advantage over non-ebayers, who are stuck with 60% recipies and spend weeks trying to find the recipies/materials to make the things they want. if no one looses gear for being stupid, then the stupid people get to keep what they shouldnt have gotten in the first place. the chance of item loss WAS three of the best things about the game. all that is left is 60% recipies and over-enchanting, but im sure they will do away with them eventually.
_Sessha_
The fact that farmers will not want to delevel their low level toons will hurt. If they delevel to a certain point, they will have to pay a lot of money to purchase scrolls to take the curse off. You need a new scroll for every death.
This is incorrect...the Debuff rate is reportedly (By NCSoft) the same as the current rate of dropping Items apon death. and there is another thread where players on the PTS say they have de-leveled from 22 to 21 and only got the debuff once.
I don't think the debuff will stop the farmers immediately...it will probably happen once they rack up 4 or 5 levels of it then depending on the level that they are will just make a new character and just transfer all the items to that one and be good to go...deleting the debuffed character whle leveling 1 of the 6 other characters availible to the account.
nameless1
1. Quick affective potions(ima call them QAP from now on) added
1) QAP for escaping have been added as following
-QHP – recover HP
-QMP – recover MP
-QCPP – recover CP
nukers instantly recovering 2k hp and cp
and this
4. The following items has been changed to lighter weight
1) Soul ores : from 10 to 5
2) CP pot : 110 to 25
3) Greater CP pot : 500 to 100
5. The reuse time for cp and greater cp pot has been decreased now
great
so not only can a nuker hold 5 times more pots but they can also spam them faster
in response to the QMP HP and QCP there is a SS of them somewhere here which shows that they have a 5 minute cool down time. Seems as if it gives you the ability to recover from fighting PVE at the Start of PVP. Not to shabby....but you are also correct that this will be used during a fight. like if the mage went out on a PK hunt.
As for the weight changes...I donno. Why only soul ore why not spirit ore too?
As for the weight changes...I donno. Why only soul ore why not spirit ore too?
Sprit ore is used during hunting for different skills. Like some of new buffs and all the greater heals, and i think some noblesse skills to. SOul ore on other hand is only used in ss crafting.
There are plenty of ways to "make it work" But when the top PVP players on a server can lose S grade weapons with an SA and enchants and have ti replaced within a day... do you really think dropping ggear is going to be a big impact? I doubt it. Dropping gear to mobs hurts the average player more than anything. The ones who have slaved for weeks or even months collecting mats and items to craft something, only to lose it in the blink of an eye. That may make the game less "hardcore" to some, but that determination is a moot point to those who would tell others to suck it up anyways.
no item loss up death from mob is not needed. Why didn't NCSoft make poll about that like they have the useless name change poll? Yes, let's give the people that buy accounts or make stupid names that hard to spell in petitions the option to get to high level then change their names!!!! lllllllllllll <--- old name Pawnanator <---- new name.
Hello, NCSoft, most of the players that are left don't want the farmers to have a happy day and be able to keep their stuff.
I can tell you this much, I've had a time where my whole party was disconnected at once, and then a minute later the server went down. Some of us logged in dead. Had we dropped an A grade armor piece, or one of the weapons that weren't equipped, it would have been an incredible blow to us, and the server down would have obliterated them entirely. And I wouldn't place bets on the GMs returning any gear that had dropped under those circumstances, either. We got lucky, if we did drop anything it wasn't anything important.
Just because it also benefits farmers shouldn't keep the devs from adding things that also benefit real players. A farmer loses a lot less if they drop gear anyhow -- they lose some of their income but they aren't going to be in serious trouble. A player dropping and losing A/S grade gear is far worse off.
I have to agree that no item drops can't hurt. Sucks when a 100 M helmet falls off that is worth more than some player's weapons (mind you the weapons cant drop). If you want to get rid of bots, you can still train them and wipe them out of areas, they just don't give you rewards for doing it. Wait...is an empty hunting ground to use simply not enough of a reward?
I like the compromise idea presented above, that items can drop from inventory but not from equipped gear.
That really hurts classes that switch weapons/armor a lot depending on situation.
Thats why I said in my post, no gear or weapon drops, no matter where they are. I know there are many people who have to carry two weapons, and maybe have 2 sets of armor. And although there is a slim chance a trained farmer might have a full drop in invo, and a smaller chance that he drops it, Im pretty sure we could agree to settle for a stack of CBP, or key mats, or like when I used to train manor farmers and get sweet sweet stacks of fruit.
non-gear invo drops would make the world a harsh place for farmers and let L2 keep a slightly sharper edge.
Not dropping items on death only helps legit layers, it does not hinder them. Will a bot quit if they drop an item? Nah not a chance. Will an ebayer quit if he drops his 150mil helm? Nah more likely he will go ebay more and get it back. Will a legit player quit or maybe reroll? Possible since they probably won't be able to afford replace it for a long while.
Pvp won't be affected since you don't drop in pvp anyway. Griefing will probably be reduced since many griefers DO do it to get items not just cause % losses. Some of those who CLAIM to only train bots are bsers and regularly go after legit players...why? Cos they might get a nice drop.
Plus I think it will encourage players to try those slightly more dangerous areas they might otherwise have stayed away from.
I like it, I spent a long time working my way through hunting/gathering mats, etc to get my Tallum helm. I don't wanna end up dropping it and having wasted all my time getting it.
My main currently has no duals either because I um "broke" my last lot which was my own fault but I would hate to have saved to buy Kesh*kesh for months and then up dropping them from lag death or some rubbish.
Yes, it does make the game a little less scary and friendlier in the long run but it's going to make life a lot easier for high lvls who simply can't afford to replace missing equipment. It may also crash the prices of stuff cos you won't ever drop it and have to replace it.
This is incorrect...the Debuff rate is reportedly (By NCSoft) the same as the current rate of dropping Items apon death. and there is another thread where players on the PTS say they have de-leveled from 22 to 21 and only got the debuff once.
I don't think the debuff will stop the farmers immediately...it will probably happen once they rack up 4 or 5 levels of it then depending on the level that they are will just make a new character and just transfer all the items to that one and be good to go...deleting the debuffed character whle leveling 1 of the 6 other characters availible to the account.
I tried this out on the pts server and died 7 times at level 40 and didnt get debuffed once.
You can buy scrolls that remove the debuff. So they wont need to create a new character.
Not dropping items on death only helps legit layers, it does not hinder them. Will a bot quit if they drop an item? Nah not a chance. Will an ebayer quit if he drops his 150mil helm? Nah more likely he will go ebay more and get it back. Will a legit player quit or maybe reroll? Possible since they probably won't be able to afford replace it for a long while.
Pvp won't be affected since you don't drop in pvp anyway. Griefing will probably be reduced since many griefers DO do it to get items not just cause % losses. Some of those who CLAIM to only train bots are bsers and regularly go after legit players...why? Cos they might get a nice drop.
Plus I think it will encourage players to try those slightly more dangerous areas they might otherwise have stayed away from.
I like it. When (if) I ever get my majestic helm, I probably would've been too scared to use it before this (although price is dropping). Also, it will get rid of some of the vermine on Hindemith that play only to cause others (usually a grade or two lower level than themselves) to drop gear. They might actually have to get "day jobs."
To hell with everyone who cries about this. If I had to chose between losing gear to lag deaths and training people to get gear... as opposed to not losing gear at all... then ****it, I would rather keep my gear.
I have to agree. Its not just lag but disconnects also. On a bad night you could die several times, either after the disconnect, or while trying to log back in.
The whole drop on death is unfair, because people can't control their internet connection.
BTW, while raiding my clan has found at least one spot in Aden where almost everyone disconnect when we try to run through. There was nothing to distinguish the spot.
The problem with not dropping items on death for our little friends is that rather then actually hurting them.. we become nothing more then an annoyance to them. Sure we can train them a dozen times... all it will do it help them delvl to stay in range. After dropping a bunch of stuff.. usually they log out and wait for when noone is there to resume. Now there will be no problems with them rezing and comming right back. Not to mention if they bring in an enforcer.. who gets hurt more? the player that will loose 4% per death or the little friend that will be glad you saved him 1 trip to the guards?
Right now being able to train little friends for a drop hurts them.. once we cant drop to a mob.. all it will do is help them.. unless you are magicly lucky enough to delvl them to the point ehy cant hunt in that spot anymore... fat chance of that though.
I would rather have the risk of loosing a peice of my gear to a random mob then loosing the ability to hurt the automated friends.
Now I do think the idea of no dropping from equiped inventory is a decent comprimise as the little friends often run around with hundreds or thousands of mats.
The day you get your first drop of 20 million red seal stones from a party of little friends you will understand. ;)
the Debuff rate is reportedly (By NCSoft) the same as the current rate of dropping Items apon death. and there is another thread where players on the PTS say they have de-leveled from 22 to 21 and only got the debuff once.
Perhaps it'd be better if the probability of the debuff went up the more often you died in a set period of time. Genuine players who delevel, from what I can tell, rarely spend as much time chasing after the guards as the automated ones. I've seen the latter go at it for hours.
I really hope that deleveling will make bots less effective so that at least some of the Adena, Inc. companies give up.
That's wishful thinking.
This is a good change for partying also, you no longer need worry about whether or not unknown members will return your items if you die.
Good point. It's not happened to me, but I do know people who've had a party of strangers suddenly let them die.
Players being able to drop hurts the game and the legit player more than it would ever hurt the farmers. Sure farmers have to replace gear, but usually that gear is junk C grade. Sometimes a huge stack of mats. No doubt money out of their pockets, but with the new pickup rule, and forcelogging, their losses are minimal. Our gear is becomming increasingly more valuable.
I wish they would have made it so that you don't drop gear or weapons (equipped or not). But anything else in your invo is dropable. This would hurt farmers, and on the rare occasion hurt players, but not in a way that is at all devestating.
The idea of dropping non-gear inventory items would be a nice compromise.
training bots is now a COMPLETE waste of time. if you dont like competing with bots for hunting grounds 24/7, this is evidently not the game for you. the rules are tailored for a speciffic audience.
I disagree. Even if I don't get a drop, I find it very very satisfying to piss off the person behind the bot, although usually the non-professional folk are the ones who get angry. Moreover, I've gotten a few "thanks" from players for clearing a spot of the pests. For me it's a sort of holiday from the grind.
Good gawd..what a bunch of Emo's. L2 is supposed to be a hardcore game with risks and rewards. If I'd wanted to play without that I'd have played WOW.
IMHO - Our auto-playing friends were just handed the keys to the house and told to make themselves comfortable. Now the "players" have ZERO recourse in fighting the bot-scourge. Yes we can still train them but really what "pain" have we caused? All they do is have to wait a bit for us to leave and back they come all set up and farming again. The time penalty we cause them, say 30 mins of their "botday" is NOTHING compared of being "On the hunt" for the other 23.5 hours.
This change is the death knell of L2. Maybe they should re-named it L2WOW? L2Carebear? LineageofWarcfaft2?
And you all thought prices would go down foolish players...now they will have full control of the economy it will be the very opposite.
Good gawd..what a bunch of Emo's. L2 is supposed to be a hardcore game with risks and rewards. If I'd wanted to play without that I'd have played WOW.
The problem is that as you get higher in level the stakes get higher in terms of xp and equipment. Also there is no control over lag. When it happens the mobs keep trucking and you can potentially lose a valuable piece of gear. Many people have.
The no drop patch also allows safer bot testing. Have you seen what happens if gameguard can't connect to the server? You disconnect. At the start of the game and during the game. Now let's say after this patch is implemented someone unplugs the gameguard server. Everyone running a legit client will disconnect. Hehe, guess who's left?
Good gawd..what a bunch of Emo's. L2 is supposed to be a hardcore game with risks and rewards. If I'd wanted to play without that I'd have played WOW.
The problem is that as you get higher in level the stakes get higher in terms of xp and equipment. Also there is no control over lag. When it happens the mobs keep trucking and you can potentially lose a valuable piece of gear. Many people have.
The no drop patch also allows safer bot testing. Have you seen what happens if gameguard can't connect to the server? You disconnect. At the start of the game and during the game. Now let's say after this patch is implemented someone unplugs the gameguard server. Everyone running a legit client will disconnect. Hehe, guess who's left?
The problem is that as you get higher in level the stakes get higher in terms of xp and equipment. Also there is no control over lag. When it happens the mobs keep trucking and you can potentially lose a valuable piece of gear. Many people have.
The no drop patch also allows safer bot testing. Have you seen what happens if gameguard can't connect to the server? You disconnect. At the start of the game and during the game. Now let's say after this patch is implemented someone unplugs the gameguard server. Everyone running a legit client will disconnect. Hehe, guess who's left?
What is life w/o risk? I'll tell you what it is...it's WOW (the New L2)
you can alwas leave if you think no item drop is bad dot_Guppy
i think lot of real players while be full of joy about it they can finaly after months of work to get their helmet on and start into a battle not to wurry to much
and no i did not read anywhere this game is harcore or some people just consider it hardcore whatever
i actually like the no drop of items. it will encourage more pvp, and hopefully bring more people to game.
this update affects both the legit and unlegit comunnity equally.
the game will still be hardcore with this update, lineage 1 has a system where you dont drop any item if you are at full lawfull status(which is extremely easy to get) and the game is still hardcore
I don't know about you all, but I am still having things drop. I just got killed this afternoon and it dropped my boots. So either that was a bug or things are still dropping. :(
well, heres a simple reason why i like this patch, i was exping in DV and died (it happens) and droped +4 doom heavy...... less than 15 seconds later our automated friends arrived, good bye doom armor.... i never saw them again :(
you can alwas leave if you think no item drop is bad dot_Guppy
i think lot of real players while be full of joy about it they can finaly after months of work to get their helmet on and start into a battle not to wurry to much
and no i did not read anywhere this game is harcore or some people just consider it hardcore whatever
Yes that is true. I can take my business elsewhere.
This game is supposed to be different then other in the market. It's why I got into it because of those differences. It's what set L2 apart. Now as we move through these updates it's becoming more like every other product out there in the market and hence it's becoming that which I didn't want. So while you sit there and like the "changes" I sit here and watch a company change what they sold me to something I didn't want in the 1st place. So you tell me who here has the best case for protest me or you? I bought something that had features I wanted and those features are now being taken away, one-by-one…and appluded by people like you.
I am glad you like the updates… but to me they are just making this game the same as every other game in the genre.
The developers (programmers) might have wanted L2 to remain hardcore but NC provides this game for profit. If there is no profit then they'd just shut the whole thing down. So they have looked at the other MMOs to see what works and try to copy it. Anything for a bigger piece of the pie. You might leave but in exchange they may get 2-3 or more casual players in return.
The developers (programmers) might have wanted L2 to remain hardcore but NC provides this game for profit. If there is no profit then they'd just shut the whole thing down. So they have looked at the other MMOs to see what works and try to copy it. Anything for a bigger piece of the pie. You might leave but in exchange they may get 2-3 or more casual players in return.
Be that as it may...they now are providing a different product by eliminating what made them unique. They changed it away from what I thought I was buying...
BTW - I am not all that hardcore. I have really no "real" pvp toons however I DO like the thought of some risk because when you beat that "risk" and overcome some adversity (in RL or in a game that simulates "life") it makes achieving your goals so much sweeter.
This is what has been taken away from us long time players with this patch. The game has become less satisfying and achieving the goals have become that much more meaningless. Losing something of worth and regaining it through hard work is MUCH better then having it handed to you on a silver platter and being told "don't worry we will fix everything, no risk here, just stay and play our game ok?"
In the end I guess I was "risking" my $15 buck a month. And I lost and the carebears won…why don't we all just step right up and have our spoonful of L2 tofu..you know, same texture, same smell, same look….it's now all the same as everything else...
It's taken me over 2+ years just to get myself into top D grade, i don't want any more hardships...The game can still have risk without worrying about dropping something on death.
Can anyone give a good reason why (they think) this was implemented? As I see it, the net effect will be less PvP and uber bots.
To attract new players to the game which atm, it badly needs it.
New players is a good thing, dropping items on death that drove players away is a bad thing, having to get 4 - 8% back per death is punishment enough without losing a peice of equipment that could potentially cost millions and upwards......especially when you hit A grade / S grade.
You're honestly going to sit there with a straight face and tell me that most top hardcore players actually used "hard work" to obtain their items?
If you are, then pardon me while I ROFLMAO for the next hour or so.
How cynical.
Wasn't speaking specifically I was speaking generally. I was speaking about how the game is supposed to be played.
Good job in picking out one thing to comment on...perhaps you can aim that intellect at the relevant meaning of the post and offer something constructive? Prolly not. It's typical poor debaters to pick one "phrase taken out of context" to try to discredit entire argument. Next time try reading for comprehension knowing that illegal players or playing methods are not to be discussed here...
The game is supposed to be hard, it's supposed to be rewarding for those willing to work at it. Its supposed to be fraught with risk (even MINIMAL RISK such as we are talking about) with rewards for those willing to work…but now it will be the straight grind with the player base expecting to be given everything because it's "unfair" to make someone actually lose something they might have had to "work" for...
How so very typical of the entitlement generation we have now.
Be that as it may...they now are providing a different product by eliminating what made them unique. They changed it away from what I thought I was buying...
BTW - I am not all that hardcore. I have really no "real" pvp toons however I DO like the thought of some risk because when you beat that "risk" and overcome some adversity (in RL or in a game that simulates "life") it makes achieving your goals so much sweeter.
The game is always changing with each new update and chronicle or else we would still be in beta.
If I want risks I'd go play the stock market, go bungee jumping, [edited because the wrong people might get excited]. This is a game and there are always risks but I want it to remain just that, a game. As for adversity there's a lot in game. The grind itself is adverse. Try to take a room in a catacomb from our tireless friends and you'll soon have adversity. Try a raid. I could go on.
Be that as it may...they now are providing a different product by eliminating what made them unique. They changed it away from what I thought I was buying...
BTW - I am not all that hardcore. I have really no "real" pvp toons however I DO like the thought of some risk because when you beat that "risk" and overcome some adversity (in RL or in a game that simulates "life") it makes achieving your goals so much sweeter.
The game is always changing with each new update and chronicle or else we would still be in beta.
If I want risks I'd go play the stock market, go bungee jumping, take a small airplane tour and whack the pilot then try to land the plane. This is a game and there are always risks but I want it to remain just that, a game. As for adversity there's a lot in game. The grind itself is adverse. Try to take a room in a catacomb from our tireless friends and you'll soon have adversity. Try a raid. I could go on.
The majority of the changes to date have not changed the premise of what was originally offered they have just refined what was already included I.e.: Open style play, open PvP, Open player run economy, and yes risk vs. reward. So when you'd risk trying to kill a mob you also risk being killed and in dying you risk dying & losing time & potential loss of items.
Now you just risk Time and in all probability you will die more often (and why not you have less risk, right?) and lose Time and which will drive you to spend more Time grinding (to make back the Time ) which will drive you to buy more server Time which will benefit who??
I don't see it as a bad change at all. In all the things that make L2 a great game, this is low on my list of things to worry about. For me and many other people this doesn't detract from the game at all. Like everything in life, change is going to happen like it or not.
Well, I'm sorry that people are upset about this. Personally I never liked the dropping of items. I always felt it was sort of like "hey.. you died. Now we are going to lower your xp that you spent the last few hours making.
And you know what? While we are at it, let's just kick you in the '**** :eek: "