I am aware that they added these herbs to some mobs that did not drop them before the patch. However I was not aware that they would be removing them from mobs that dropped them before the patch. I have been soloing Doom Knights all moring and have not gotten a single herb from there where as before the patch I would get several in a buff round. Personally I think they should drop from every mob in the game...why should we only be able to solo in certin location with the added efficency of the herb potions? Anyone else notice areas where the herbs dropped before the patch but do not now?
I don't need a healer/buffer in Forbidden Gateway anyway. It just means a lil more downtime. Seems silly to have them in some places and not in others. Especailly taking them out of DV...where healers can solo easily in robes. Forced into duos that don't need a healer or forced into light armor. I don't like to be forced into anything.
those herbs cant realy replace a buffer, maybe you will use less healing pots, but for buffs, they only help soloers, not replace buffers.
Well I soloed with my dwarf for more then an hour, only used like 5 ghps in the time and didnt need any rest. Dwarf is 42 with not enchanted gear.
So hell yeah, it replaces buffers.
well for the people who dont have the option of having a clan hall or an oop buffer, I think this is a great idea. For me I have a clan hall and still think its a great idea, it saves adena spent on ghp's.
Well, I like it for my dwarfie too. But My main is WC, she doesnt benefits from the buffherbs, exept for the ww2 herb. And if other people can solo easier she might get little less parties..
I really liked the herb thingies, especially the mp recovery ones...it's kinda hard to solo without them...and I totally understand the healer's point of view, but it's also true that it's not always easy to find a healer to party with...I'd give party to any healer who wants to join me but only an EE/SE can recharge my mp, the other healers can't, so at least the mp herbs are not replacing all healers...
It's a crappy loop IMO. This is my personal, shortened time line as a bishop in l2.
C1 solo/group to 30, group 30-42.
C2 still continue to enjoy extreme popularity in 9 man groups 42-56.
C3 become next to completely unwanted thanks to both SE VR and decentralized hunting areas, aka cata/necros and small parties. Forced into undesirable parties made desirable for me and other gimp classes (dwarfs, pole arm users for mass AOE). Most reroll.
C4 continue to be rather unwanted thanks to the wave of nukers (SE's/EE's) or archers (prophets). Most reroll or quit.
C5, stacks of herbs that heal for more than a bishop or EE ever could. good game.
Because some places you should actually need a healer or buffer :mad:
As a spellsinger... there is no such thing as a replacement for an SE or EE.
It's the difference between 82% downtime (no SE/EE) and 10% or less downtime(with SE/EE).
The solo pots do not come anywhere near an SE or EE.
There is no intellgent reason why anything outdoors should REQUIRE an SE or EE.
It should be easier... but requiring a buffer is just rediculous.
Buffs are indeed TOO powerful in this game.
(That being said, buffer classes would require class changes giving them combat viability if they were nerfed...)
Well, I like it for my dwarfie too. But My main is WC, she doesnt benefits from the buffherbs, exept for the ww2 herb. And if other people can solo easier she might get little less parties..
just becuz you dont have downtime it doesent mean they replace buffers. sure, you may not need a healer, but you will not kill nearly as fast as if you have buffs. sure, herb of power drop, and focus and some other, but not every 2 min, and you dont get them all at the same time, and still if you did, its not half as good as good prophet buffs.
Please review the patch notes for some basic information regarding the changes in herbs and pot drops.
To be honest, the drops of herbs and such don't really help SH's anyway, if you're employing the proper hunting style (i.e., walking to take advantage of your passive mp regen skills and using B2M and CLD). Assuming your nuking at range, the pots usually vanish long before you get to them...especially if you're taking out 2 or 3 mobs at once.
Well I'm hunting Doom Knight for Soul Crystals and so they must get to close range to cast the crystal and thus I can get to the herbs fast enough. AND Empower/Acumen herb would most certinly help not to mention that even with Clear Mind, B2M, corpse life drain etc you will eventually run out of mana. So clearly the pots would help in the long run. I am extreemly efficent in my mana maintainance...ask anyone who has played with me for any amount of time but every bit helps. The fact is it's silly to have them drop in one place and not another. It is simply NC decideing where we should solo and where we should not. I don't like the idea of being forced...period.
To be honest, the drops of herbs and such don't really help SH's anyway, if you're employing the proper hunting style (i.e., walking to take advantage of your passive mp regen skills and using B2M and CLD). Assuming your nuking at range, the pots usually vanish long before you get to them...especially if you're taking out 2 or 3 mobs at once.
now try the same thing with death spike
i managed 1 full hour of non-stop nukeing without a single recharge or btm yesterday
I honestly think it should be possible to solo to 78 without a healer or buffer - but not nearly as fast as with one. But then... that'd require some thinking through of more than ten seconds and some ... balance.
Simple enough would be determining whether someone can even get buff herbs by saying if the whole party is under a certain % of HP/MP, only restorative herbs drop - it would help, and make healers important over buffers again.
As far as I can tell, t he buff herbs don't drop often enough to replace a buffer anyway, although it might be nice if they pushed the duration of buffs 'out' so that a live buffer winds up being required for staggering the buffs on people based on their herb consumption. :p
(And yes - of course a boxed player can stagger buffs too, but it's annoying and hasslesome.)
i wonder indeed how the future of this game will be
i started on franz when it released and there was a decent amount of support classes in the beginning
as people started ebaying more and more and started spamming soulshots and getting VR or simply doing enough damage to not really need heals support classes got less and less teams, and most rerolled
atm i know of ONE live support class on entire franz, the rest are just boxed chars, the sheer amount of SEs being the empower bishes for SH/SpS is making me nauseous
all the while NCSoft is racking up the money, while rubbing their hands when people will start to ebay even more due to recent changes in the game
and what happens to healers that actually could solo a bit ? yep they got kicked in the face by removing herbs from the only place in the game there are undeads (and a certain lack of unmentionables) and moved to a 3x health area that is not designed for soloing at all (werent herbs meant for SOLOING? since they drop in "SOLO AREAS" originally). Said 3x area has a surprising amount of unmentionables
sometimes you wonder who it is NCSoft balances this game for...
No your right...they don't. However if they want to solo with any semblance of efficentcy it would be wise. Holy Weapon and Might of Heaven...make em work on Demonics and everyones happy.
I disagree. My EE isn't very high yet but he is very happy with +4 DEX -4 CON since he is using a Grace Dagger with Focus. Upped that crit rate/attack speed just enough to make it worth using...and a lil extra run speed is always nice.
Yes, I personally have -7 STR because back in the day when I made this char, I thought the sole purpose was to party with other players and you know. Heal them and stay alive myself.
The margins become slimmer if your CON is lower, certainly - but the reaction time is not. Maybe you'll get into marginally more Oh [censored] situations, but in my experience, a situation where a healer is very LoM and getting hit will generally lead to a wipe (or a scroll res) or a PR anyway, and a few hundred extra HP would make little difference.
The margins become slimmer if your CON is lower, certainly - but the reaction time is not. Maybe you'll get into marginally more Oh [censored] situations, but in my experience, a situation where a healer is very LoM and getting hit will generally lead to a wipe (or a scroll res) or a PR anyway, and a few hundred extra HP would make little difference.
one stun at the inapprioate time however could lead to verryyyy bad things
It's a crappy loop IMO. This is my personal, shortened time line as a bishop in l2.
C1 solo/group to 30, group 30-42.
C2 still continue to enjoy extreme popularity in 9 man groups 42-56.
C3 become next to completely unwanted thanks to both SE VR and decentralized hunting areas, aka cata/necros and small parties. Forced into undesirable parties made desirable for me and other gimp classes (dwarfs, pole arm users for mass AOE). Most reroll.
C4 continue to be rather unwanted thanks to the wave of nukers (SE's/EE's) or archers (prophets). Most reroll or quit.
C5, stacks of herbs that heal for more than a bishop or EE ever could. good game.
But you can't hug an herb, and boxes are cold.
<3 real healers. :D
one stun at the inapprioate time however could lead to verryyyy bad things
Yes, the same goes for someone without -CON, or with +CON - you're by default more careful and simply react sooner based on absolute numbers rather than percentage with -CON.
The one EE I wouldn't party would be someone carrying no acumen weapon and not having at least +4WIT. :p
Well I'm hunting Doom Knight for Soul Crystals and so they must get to close range to cast the crystal and thus I can get to the herbs fast enough.
It is now possible to purchase the Soul Crystals in the Giran Lux shop. With an SH's kill speed, you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to level a soul crystal. In the time it takes you to level it, you could have earned enough in adena drops to purchase it outright.
AND Empower/Acumen herb would most certinly help
No argument here. I am leveling a Wizard in EG, Field of Whispers and Red Rock Ridge and the pots (along with B2M, CLD) almost make my SE buffbot obsolete.
What I do find annoying, however, is that if you are using a lesser haste pot (cast speed or movement), the herbs will essentially replace them...albeit with a much shorter effect period. Or at least that's how it seems to me. (Someone please confirm if you've experienced this too).
Even with Clear Mind, B2M, corpse life drain etc you will eventually run out of mana.
It's been a minute since I hunted with my SH, but with Death Spike, Clear Mind, B2M, CLD, and either an occasional smattering of Vamp Claw or GHP's, my SH was always on her feet. But I admittedly had a larger pool of HP to pool from, as I kept an SOES with Bodily Bless in inventory. (This was looooong before I rolled the SE buffbot.)
The fact is it's silly to have them drop in one place and not another. It is simply NC deciding where we should solo and where we should not. I don't like the idea of being forced...period.
I tend to view it as NCSoft's way of determining where the botters and adena farmers will hunt.
At the end of the day, you have to remember that hundreds/thousands of people before you leveled without pots and herbs, without armor and weapon SA's, without dyes, etc., in the same regions where you are currently xp'ing. Sure, having the pots and herbs would be ideal, but there is something to be said about turning the disadvantages of a hunting ground to your favor. Adapt and overcome.
It is now possible to purchase the Soul Crystals in the Giran Lux shop. With an SH's kill speed, you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to level a soul crystal. In the time it takes you to level it, you could have earned enough in adena drops to purchase it outright.
I can take 3 to level 7 in about 1 1/2 hours and sell them for 600k per (not to mention I still am getting drops from the mobs I kill)...PLEASE tell me where I can hunt and earn that kind of cash from drops alone. On my server 600k is a lil less then the lux shop sells them for if you purchase the crystals from player shops.
What I do find annoying, however, is that if you are using a lesser haste pot (cast speed or movement), the herbs will essentially replace them...albeit with a much shorter effect period. Or at least that's how it seems to me. (Someone please confirm if you've experienced this too).
I have found that when the herb runs out the orignal buff/potion returns even if it is of a lesser strenght then the herb
It's been a minute since I hunted with my SH, but with Death Spike, Clear Mind, B2M, CLD, and either an occasional smattering of Vamp Claw or GHP's, my SH was always on her feet. But I admittedly had a larger pool of HP to pool from, as I kept an SOES with Bodily Bless in inventory. (This was looooong before I rolled the SE buffbot.)
I try not to use the Cursed Bone spell outside of PvP (what it's ment for) due to the cost. My weapon currently has no SA because I just got my hands on an A weapon and have not yet gotten the chance (or cash) to purchase the Soul Crystal for it. Also I only use CDL in large parties and in PvP (again what it is really ment for) due to the risk of dropping one's HP so low to make it effective. Especailly consierding that, like I said, the Doom knights have to be close range to cast the Crystal. I could go none stop but that means more time B2Ming between mobs and less time killing (plus the cost of the occasional heal potion and curesed bones as you suggested). I also don't use any sort of two-boxing or buff bot nor do I have a clan hall for buffs.
I tend to view it as NCSoft's way of determining where the botters and adena farmers will hunt.
At the end of the day, you have to remember that hundreds/thousands of people before you leveled without pots and herbs, without armor and weapon SA's, without dyes, etc., in the same regions where you are currently xp'ing. Sure, having the pots and herbs would be ideal, but there is something to be said about turning the disadvantages of a hunting ground to your favor. Adapt and overcome.
Well I also don't like the idea of honest players being effected by anit-botting measures. They have effected this game enough on their own without the devs getting involved in the process. Also I am one of thoes 'hundred of thousand' who leveled without herbs and SAs. I have adapted...I have overcome. I can hunt there easily and did so everyday for weeks prior to the patch. I just don't see a reason why they do not drop in this particular area.
I can solo, yes with the herbs, and much better than I could if I there wasn't any. I now an soloing green and light blue mobs in VoS with the help of herbs. The herbs don't make it so I CAN hunt in VoS by myself, they just make it possible for me to log out there, log back in for an hour and grind a bit with not sitting on my butt for 20 minutes of that time.
Anyway, healers are the best! Also everyone knows if you wanna PvP you will want LIVE healers! There are places such as ToI, DVC, etc. etc. any good place that has decent quests requires a small party and a healer and buffer or two.
But seriously, adding more pots was a GREAT thing to do. How many active healers do you really think the pots are replacing? NONE! That is how many! The only healer these pots are replacing is maybe someone's dual boxed buffer or healer. You should be able to solo and whatnot without the need to have two accounts. Although still having your own buffer is a huge advantage, especially if you wanna solo with your buffBOT in these new areas. But it at least gives those of us that can't have 2 accounts an advantage.
If there are any live SEs on Kain that want to party, you can drop me a PM I am always up for a real group or duo when I have the time.
And to the OP... Just find a new hunting spot that gives you the herbs. You may not make as much exp, but if you are set on lvling in DV then get a healer. :)
one stun at the inapprioate time however could lead to verryyyy bad things
Yes, the same goes for someone without -CON, or with +CON - you're by default more careful and simply react sooner based on absolute numbers rather than percentage with -CON.
Not when you are AoEing (or just hunting group mobs). Not when you are hunting AoE-stunning mobs. And then why would you need an EE in the first place? :D
And definitely not in PvP.
And I would not expect to be "more careful by default" from a healer that goes -Con, which by itself shows that they don't really care :p