Who realy needs a healer ??? .... yeah ...... ummm .... /click button 1900 insta HP every 5 mins .... and if you are soloing .... HP herb 900 + 1900 Every 5 mins ..... :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Cry whine cry "I'm not assured groups that fawn at my feet everywhere I go now." Shesh, and I thought EQ clerics had a set of waterworks when druids got a complete heal. Looks like L2 healers are going to take the trophy for having some of the whinest members around.
Do you actually try soloing for more than 30 minutes and not just in the prime solo xp spots, or are you just taking the examples that most favor your side and ignoring the normal situation. You know, the situation where you keep wondering where those hp/mp herbs are because all that's dropped that last 25+ kills is buff herbs. Oh and lets ignore that the herbs don't drop in dungeons at all - it's not as if people want to hunt ToI, catacombs/necropoli, GC, etc. We all know all hunting is done in open fields on solo monsters. Heaven forbid that someone might want to actually solo not duo or personally not like you, your clan, or have had a lot of bad experiences with healers being more trouble than they're worth.
Maybe YOU are the reason you aren't getting groups? All those times you wanted "better xp" or cut out early for "clan stuff" and left the group high and dry in the middle of hunting do play a role in if people group with you. Its called your repuation - the sum of how you act, your clan/alliance acts, and how you class as a whole acts. If that reputation involves leaving the group early because you wanted "better xp", to raid (usually where the rest of the group is too low to follow), or to group with clanmates, etc you might just have harder time finding groups. Doesn't matter that you can be a technically flawless healer/buffer - most groups would rather oner that isn't perfect but is there, than a healer/buffer that can be perfect but leaves at the drop of a hat.
I've duoed (durrh) around 12 hours or so in the same spot since the patch, more rather than less. I've never had those "25+ kills without a herb".
If healers were more trouble than they were worth, people wouldn't have needed this boost to make do without them - but they were worth it, and now they're not anymore, and nobody's really sure why.
For those who want to solo, there's a simple option: Turn into a pony and you won't have to dual box to have a healer with you - hell, if you want to turn into a huge black thing you can be a healer AND have a healer with you!
The summoner class, in exchange for being a non-stop-no-downtime-duo has pitiful crit ratings, experience penalty, consumable costs stacked astronomically high.
Nobody is not getting groups - there are, after all, too many groups for too few healers, allowing them to be snobbish gits.
But is making healers unnecessary at a low level, where solo mobs are still the preferred EXP, the solution to not having enough healers?
i agree w/ maline. i had to be p lvled at low level or else i wouldve never made it to high level. groups for healers are non existant for a few reasons.
1. people are working on leveling their 2 box high level
2. everyone is soloing cause its easier w/ the herbs
3. healers cant solo at all. compare a healer soloing to even a dwarf soloing
LOL, you clearly have no idea whatsoever how hard it's been for bishops and EE's since after C2. If it wasn't for my clan through that horrible cata/necro mess we called C3, my clan through the still uber SE era of C4, I would have rerolled at level 60.
I think the real problem is that healers are being phased out not by the updates, but by a combination of the updates and the supposed need for 2-boxing.
When a live healer / buffer such as myself cannot find a group without looking into my clan or alliance (who aren't always on during the odd hours I keep) because everyone and their cousin has a healer / buffer trailing behind them...
Yep we got into that argument on another thread, yes yes we CAN solo but it would be much more effecient to stop playing a healer and roll a nuker/archer and solo/dual box and keep all items, all drops, all exp, and crack on healers for being greedy suckers that just leech.
Necros still roxxor, imo i think they're even better now, no real nerfs, vamp claw mp++, big deal doesn't affect pvp/pve that much. Anchor, as if 30 secs isn't enough to get killed. Forget, who needs sleep? Mass fear... nuff said
Oh, yah, they STILL have TP. >_>
Necros still roxxor, imo i think they're even better now, no real nerfs, vamp claw mp++, big deal doesn't affect pvp/pve that much. Anchor, as if 30 secs isn't enough to get killed. Forget, who needs sleep? Mass fear... nuff said
Oh, yah, they STILL have TP. >_>
except, when I know I'm going to be fighting a Necro, it will look kinda like this:
You can feel Curse Gloom's effect
Random Necro Hit you for 400 damage
Random Necro Hit you for 400 damage
Random Necro Hit you for 400 damage
Random Necro Hit you for 400 damage
Me: Lawl
Random Necro Hit you for 400 damage
Random Necro Hit you for 400 damage
When a live healer / buffer such as myself cannot find a group without looking into my clan or alliance (who aren't always on during the odd hours I keep) because everyone and their cousin has a healer / buffer trailing behind them...
:p I'm still not sure if I'm two live healers or two boxed healers! Woo.
Well my Prophet can't find a group because of these herbs tanks always reply to me "Sorry herbs can heal me well as a leacher" ><
Get a pair of Duals and heavy armor and show them whose the leacher! >_<
Really, it's the overwhelming 'keeping up with the Joneses XP' that is killing grouping in this game.
BUT HEY! If you *REALLY* want to see people turn you down for parties...just don't use SS! (Annoyed that I need a fleet of chars to pay for my 'mains' SS use? Nooooo...whatever gave you that idea?)
Any and all healers (or players who prefer to play healers) who do not feel like they are getting the love (and parties) that they deserve, please come to Sieghardt and sign up to WrathoftheJust Clan.
We prefer a live healer and buffer over pots and will be happy to help level you up through and beyond the academy. Legit and honorable players only.
We aren't an aggressive clan, but we do protect our own and fight our own battles and thus appreciate the role of the live buffer and healer in both pve and pvp.
It's not so much a problem of getting groups - after all, live healers are scarce enough for groups to be far in excess of live healers available, but a problem of the sort of message this is sending to players.
Including the fact that healers do, when soloing, not benefit from the herbs all that much.
Of course I disagree.
A heal herb returns mana back to a healer as well as a tank, for example. That can save the healer mana for a heal of his own down the road or a disrupt undead or some other such thing. Mana herbs restore mana to a healer just as well as to a nuker.
Casting speed herbs are useful to healers for their heals, self-buffs, roots, sleeps, etc as well as the magic power herbs. Speed, makes them faster. Etc etc etc.
If it extends the amount of time they can go without spending their nown mana on heals and buffs, then it is a benefit.
What do you want the herbs to do? Turn a healer into another class altogether so that they no longer have the ability to hgeal and buff themselves in order to make the herbs more significant to them?
Or maybe I missed the point.
As for the healers that feel they are being replaced by herbs, my previous post stands.
I might agree with some of the things you say here but.....
I don't have a problem with a player that needs to leave because his clan is calling him. Clan comes first and that's the way it should be. However.....
There is a however here. I do not expect any of my clan members to just dump a party. As the clan leader I do expect them to come when when the clan is partying together or other clan functions. I also tell them that they must tell the party they are in, and allow time for them to find a replacement. This is a matter of respect for the other players. I normally allow for 1 buff round for the party to find a replacement before my member leaves them.
Healers are important to my clan and are treated well. No Bishop or EE in my clan is ever asked to except a scroll rez or SE/PP rez just so they can turn around and give high% rez's to the rest of the party. In my clan they always get brez's or cardinal rez's (don't have any cardinals yet, so they get brez). Since they get this benefit from the clan, they are expected to make themselves available when the clan is partying together.
Healers are still needed when someone goes to places where the mobs are double and triple HP. It's just that with the herbs, you don't have to split crappy XP from single HP mobs amongst 2-4 peeps. You can reasonably level without there being so much of a grind.
My summoner gets 0 benifit from the herbs. So Maline I would love to have a healer/buffer out with me and my kitty. heck i will take your EO with me anytime you want to party with any of my charcters :)
well as far as i can see it only really benefits the 9 man clan-led parties out in such places as DVC or any 5person+ party in a catacomb. it helps keep mana up on the buffer and healer for heals DURING the killing process that might be otherise insufficient after 14 mobs aggro you.
if the herbs drop in the rift, i would exp there all day with my 3boxes of buffers. let the buffers heal during killing, then let buffers pick up the loot. bingo bango, no wasted mana, and less time wasted waiting for MP (if i ever did).
duoing and soloing the herbs are still only useful if you dont drop a lot of HP to begin with while killing.
case in point: nameless1 has a current record of soloing as a necro without BTM OR VAMP CLAWing for 2 hours before it was required. in a 9 person lair of valakas exp group, that would probably and more likely drop to 20 mins.
as a level 23 elven knight (which i am not pole-ing up) i have not yet had to use my boxed buffer while duoing in orc barracks on 2x social and aggro mobs 7 levels higher than me.
my point ... herbs = longer BIG PARTY life and longer live healer life. solo, herbs = infinite solo.
Herbs don't drop anywhere a full party would hunt.
The point of herbs is to fill in those places where you needed "one-fourth of a healer". E.g. in solo or duo, we need maybe three heals per buff cycle. Hardly worth justifying taking a live healer (unless clan/alliance needed grp). With a warcryer buffs are mostly handled.
They do also seem (only from second hand knowledge, I don't have a high non-healer) to fill those places where you would have needed a healer to kill more than 10 mobs before resting. That's probably a bit of an exagerration, but you know what I mean, somewhere that a healer would be required to hunt efficiently.
Maybe if they dropped only 3 times in a buff round it'd be a bit more balanced. At the moment the drop rate, and strength of them is a little overpowered in my opinion. The buff herbs don't seem to drop as much though, in 30 minutes of solo I only got 2 Critical Attack potions, but I do kill slowly ;).
I'm just wondering, do most people think that all classes should be able to solo (with varying efficiency depending on damage output) without downtime?
Herbs really only benefit melee classes. I've been lvling all my alts (melee and mystics) to see just how many and what types of herbs drop. The bigest herb drop is of HP, followed by MP and then the remaining others seem to drop at a lower rate.
To say that a healer benefits from these in any significant way is simply not true. I would agree, that it could help a good deal from lvls 1-20 and maybe even into the second class change, but as a buffers skills lvl up to the same lvl as the herbs, they become redundant. About the only way a healer who has reached that point can benefit from herbs is to be a healer geared for soloing/melee against mobs. As most healers can only nuke undead and NCSoft has seen to it that the total number of undead population has been reduced, it's become very difficult for a healer to solo as well as inefficient and expensive. The healer, if that's what you'd like to call them ( I don't think they are), that benefits the most is that from the Orc class.
On my melee class alts, I never ask for buffs and it wasn't that bad of a grind, of course I had a twinked out melee. But now with the herbs, it's just insane. I tried to 2 box with my SE, she was absolutely useless. The herbs gave me better, and at the rate they drop, consistent buffs and thus better xp gains.
It was nice to speed along and gain xp and drops, but I'd give that up for a healthy population of live healers. Playing a healer is a play/lifestyle. People who play healers as their main don't get any glory nor nods of respect. They sit in the background and do what they can to contribute to the group, according to the limitations that NCSoft has placed upon them. Others call this leeching, I call it being part of a team, where all do their part. By making these herbs drop so frequently, NCSoft has basically told any new player, "don't bother with a healer, play a melee". But by endgame and even somewhere along the middle, when healers and buffers are needed, there will be few live healers, fewer than even now. Viva le Boxed healer, cause that's what's going to be left.
People, Herbs are only available in low level areas and solo areas.
If you want to take fifteen times longer to level than take a party into a necro/cata or other dungeon you do that, but don't go crying when it DOES take you that long.
And if you're in a party, and you don't need a healer, you are again gimping your exp collection. Leave a slot for an experienced healer and you're guaranteed to be able to handle a MUCH larger mob load and density. Which once again translates to more exp.
Have any of you tried to get bloody fabric WITHOUT a healer? Wont' happen.
People need to stop complaining about what happens int he game and learn to adapt to it.
If it's unadaptable (such as client crashes, and GG in general) THEN post about it.