Am I the only one who doesn't like the changing of the non-chaotic players not being able to drop now? Does that mean people will just a white cannot drop? Or purple cannot drop either?
well its not really carebear. I don't disagree it takes the harsh edge off L2, which is disputably good ro bad.
But it was really an infrequent and often frustrating part of PvE.
Purples didnt drop, and they wont drop. Reds will (if they have over 5 PKs of course).
Yes carebears like the change, but so do people who like their shiny +6 gear that helps them PvP. And PvP rules are mostly the same, although I think they softened them up a bit, which I could have done without.
Promoting PvP? Where are they promoting PvP? No drops from whites makes me not want to PvP. There should be some gain when you kill another from an opposing guild or just someone you see on the street and you start to fight. Loosing exp is just one thing, and not really even one thing because people use Brez..
Promoting PvP? Where are they promoting PvP? No drops from whites makes me not want to PvP. There should be some gain when you kill another from an opposing guild or just someone you see on the street and you start to fight. Loosing exp is just one thing, and not really even one thing because people use Brez..
There have not been drops from white players in PvP since Prelude, if it even was possible then. Prior to this patch the only way for a white or purple to drop was for the last hit to be from a mob, it's been that way for years.
Oh, so training bots is a bad thing to you mister Realist? Stealing their stuff is bad, mmkay, whatever.
No, its bad that people keep the bots in the game simply so they can use them as a money income. Most of the tmie that simply promotes the greed that makes people train everyone, including regular players.
Am I the only one who doesn't like the changing of the non-chaotic players not being able to drop now? Does that mean people will just a white cannot drop? Or purple cannot drop either?
Whatever people think I like the no drop change simply because legit players who worked hard for their gear won't have it drop after months of hard work due to accident or griefers.
Am I the only one who doesn't like the changing of the non-chaotic players not being able to drop now? Does that mean people will just a white cannot drop? Or purple cannot drop either?
Whatever people think I like the no drop change simply because legit players who worked hard for their gear won't have it drop after months of hard work due to accident or griefers.
Totally agree. Like I said before, the griefers are going to have to get real jobs now.
Whatever people think I like the no drop change simply because legit players who worked hard for their gear won't have it drop after months of hard work due to accident or griefers.
And the bots can stroll around in top equipment, enhancing their killing abilities and making them harder to train to even gain the hunting spot.
Yea, legit players wont be losing their stuff anymore Elrohir, but the bots will be even more dominating. And now there is no point to train them, so they can run around Aden totally FREE.
But training normal players, well that is still profitable since they lose exp and I believe that is something most people care for, unlike the bots ;)
Training is still a viable griefing tool, or a way of waging war but it no longer helps in the fight against bots since bots care not for the exp but for the money they make and every item dropped is a bit less money in their pockets.
The change has good and bad aspects, I dont really like it but cant really change what NC does. But I find it funny that someone thinks that everyone who opposes this is disgusting. Not everyone train legit players for profit and not everyone thinks that this is a good change at all, for various reasons. Some might lose income, some might just feel that L2 is becoming like WoW or some other candyland carebear game where everything is nice and dandy.
UO had the best death penalty of all MMOs I've played so far: you could loot the killed player stark naked(there were newbied items too). But it wouldnt work in this game, since the economy and all is totally different, and totally infested by 3rd parties.
Yea, legit players wont be losing their stuff anymore Elrohir, but the bots will be even more dominating. And now there is no point to train them, so they can run around Aden totally FREE.
You mean the were hampered by losing gear before C5? :eek:
with the party pick up priority, forcelogging and trash gear. I think the occasional mid C gear loss, was easily offset by Ebayers buying adena to replace dropped A and S gear.
Making the game harsher only hurts legit players, and gives Ebayers more reasons to Ebay.
No gear dropping is one less reason to turn to the secondary market.
The only people that are really ****** about this is those people that made money off of training people and bots by dropped gear. Everyone else is pretty happy that they can't drop their hard earned A grade stuff. Granted, trainers didn't really work "hard" for their A grade gear!
Don't try to exploit the 3rd party market...you are still using it to your advantage if you train them! Train them to get your spot back...but that is all you should care about! Craft and work with other players to get your stuff threw quests and mat collecting...thats hardcore yo!
When you actually work for your gear like that, then you will know why they stopped people from being able to drop gear from mobs.
Care bears are the people that try to train you to kill you, instead of actually doing REAL PvP by flagging on you, and when you hit them they BSoe out or gate hop out of a catacomb until you just PK their *** for being such a care bear!
just for comparrison. clannie of mine with 14 PKs in C4 dropped his dragonslayer, doom boots, doom gloves, BO earing, and some kind of mat (lets say, for the sake of humor, it was 1 coal). now, here's the important part. since he Knew he had a chance of dropping that stuff, he died in our clan hall. a person who just started the game, who bought all their gear and character online, is not going to know about the karma system. in C4 they learned a rude lesson. in C5 they are completely protected, from real players. the simple fact is that cheaters have to actually work at it to lose gear now. buy a +10 draconic bow with focus for some ungodly amount of money, and no matter what happens you're not going to loose it. a real player would have to LOSE ITEMS through crafting and over-enchanting to get the same weapon. your arguement is that people that have been playing this game a long time are going to make a mistake, even though they know the rules, and die and drop their gear? please. ive died and dropped gear, but i've always gotten it back, since late c-grade, becasue your party has 15 seconds to pick it up, only if you are soloing with one account (does anyone play without a dual box anymore??) you MIGHT have had a CHANCE of dropping some non-weapon stuff and loosing it. and dont tell me your helmet is worth 200mil, becasue its not. all that said, im not really a mean person. after gaining gear from someone, i typically ask them if they want it back, if they dont respond, their loss.
Yes, I think that game is too 'carebare' now. The extra exp from field hunting and parties, brez, bsoe, ...the list goes on and on of things that have made the game easier.
I suspect that these changes have been made over time as a result of complaints (whines) on the boards about how L2 is too tough. However, I also suspect that the complainers are the kind of people who tend to jump from game to game and complained when they jumped to L2 and found it tougher than they are used to. Most of them have probably jumped to another game by now, and they would have jumped whether or not the changes were made. However, the hardcore longtime L2 players, the ones who were here in C1, grew up on the toughness of L2. They are not game jumpers, but if things keep getting easier and easier then they may well lose their loyalty.
So the whiners/jumpers we cannot keep in game, but we have pandered to with the result that we may lose the ones who would stay without the changes, so perhaps the changes have hurt the game?
I'm not a lowbie ganker, so the change doesn't affect the way I play the game.
I'm not a "bot hunter" and recognized early on that training bots was not going to stop them, or hamper them in the least. Their biggest customers were live players who were getting ganked (or lagged) and losing gear that they couldn't readily replace through legit means.
I've always found that people who need mobs to do their killing for them so they can avoid the risk of flagging were indeed the most "carebear" people in the game, followed closely by people who regained lost XP in their sleep and the high-level "gangs" that gate-hop or pick fights when they have no real risk of losing.
But I digress....
There may be griefers who still get their kicks from mob-training people, and hey they pay their $15 bucks a month too. But boo-hoo if they don't profit from their victims anymore.
Without bots being a source of drops, and with less people needing to resort to illegit tactics to replace lost items, this is actually the best method yet to actually do something about the bots.
Methinks those that doth protest too much would rather see bots stay in the game as a source of goods rather than actually solve the problem. Just an opinion, of course.
your arguement is that people that have been playing this game a long time are going to make a mistake, even though they know the rules, and die and drop their gear? please. ive died and dropped gear, but i've always gotten it back, since late c-grade, becasue your party has 15 seconds to pick it up, only if you are soloing with one account (does anyone play without a dual box anymore??) you MIGHT have had a CHANCE of dropping some non-weapon stuff and loosing it. and dont tell me your helmet is worth 200mil, becasue its not.
There are plenty of ways to drop gear without a player mistake.
I was hunting with 6 other people in DVC a while back. Every one of us got disconnected from the server at the same time, in spite of being spread across the globe IRL. When I tried to log back in, the server was down, and when it came back up, two of us were dead, meaning we died before the server went down. Any item we dropped was obliterated seconds later.
Every death I've had for the past ten levels has been lag/disconnect related, and having a dual box doesn't help as they are almost always network related and a dualbox is going to lag/disconnect at the same time.
And many people carry more than one weapon, for things like PvP or depending on situation. So losing a weapon is a real possibility.
I'm not a lowbie ganker, so the change doesn't affect the way I play the game.
I'm not a "bot hunter" and recognized early on that training bots was not going to stop them, or hamper them in the least. Their biggest customers were live players who were getting ganked (or lagged) and losing gear that they couldn't readily replace through legit means.
I've always found that people who need mobs to do their killing for them so they can avoid the risk of flagging were indeed the most "carebear" people in the game, followed closely by people who regained lost XP in their sleep and the high-level "gangs" that gate-hop or pick fights when they have no real risk of losing.
But I digress....
There may be griefers who still get their kicks from mob-training people, and hey they pay their $15 bucks a month too. But boo-hoo if they don't profit from their victims anymore.
Without bots being a source of drops, and with less people needing to resort to illegit tactics to replace lost items, this is actually the best method yet to actually do something about the bots.
Methinks those that doth protest too much would rather see bots stay in the game as a source of goods rather than actually solve the problem. Just an opinion, of course.
Finally someone that sees the reality of it.
I've disconnected in group only to log back in and see the party dead and myself die shortly after (mobs have been beating on me while I was waiting to see anything).
Training bots for gear was pretty much finished as a constant source of money before C5. The people that relied on that (or from other players) needed to change tactics anyway. There will still be griefers trying to get others to go red (something I've never understood myself) so they can gank them for drops.
File this change under the same one that meant you could PL toons with big boom from 1 to 52 in less than a day.
People still train others to avoid PK penalties (carebear, IMO). Just yesterday I saw an A-grader train a couple of C-grade toons in EV (clan war, probably). Why not just kill them outright?
On another note, I wonder if every ebayer is going to have to change their stories about where they get their gear. There's only some many "mispriced shops" to go around. :)
LOL, I predict a large swell in the number of "well-geared, but poorly-played permareds" (that no one else knows about), popping like pinatas on the 5th of May.
Has there really been a change to the dropping of gear in pvp? How long has it been known that in the old fight against rb farmers that only people under five pk's should go red so you dont drop? PvP is still the same old game it has been.
As for training it is and continues to be a valuable PvP method even if people wont drop stuff. Take a destroyer. Slow run speed but high hp. Unless you were another tank type toon I couldnt really battle you because you were smart enough not to stand still and trade blows with me. Even if I ran up on a toon unexpected they could kite me and win. Now if I run up on you killing mobs with a huge train where you going to go? If you come into my levelling spot and I ask you to leave nicely and you wont.......I go grab a train and bring them to you and I have my spot back. It is called using terrain to my advantage. I never used it as a griefing method but it sure was an effective way to kill bots and against those I was warring or spot stealers. Never cared if the player dropped gear, and if they did I would give it back.
You see training as a griefing tool (which it can be), but I see it as an effective way to use my class.
You see training as a griefing tool (which it can be), but I see it as an effective way to use my class.
You're talking about a "fair" fight. I'm talking about someone merely trying to avoid PK penalties. An A-grade archer has NO problem dropping 2 C grade toons (one an SE). So, the only reason I can see him doing this is to either avoid PK penalty or forcing full 4% EXP penalty.
Either way, I prefer a stand up fight; face-to-face.
That is because you are not a mage type or archer type. Like I said most wont do the stand toe to toe battle. I will against other knight type classes.
You are correct about me seeing it is a fair fight. I dont like gank squads, and really hate griefers. Everyone was complaining about training and I thought I would throw in another opinon about it. Using an A grade toon to grief C grade toons is pretty pathetic. Then again I will never understand the mind of the griefer or the joy they seem to take in killing lower level toons.
Using an A grade toon to grief C grade toons is pretty pathetic. Then again I will never understand the mind of the griefer or the joy they seem to take in killing lower level toons.
I can only assume it was a clan war thing. He saw me (with his train), stopped and ran 90 degrees in a different direction. I'm not *that* intimidating. :p
Either way, I prefer a stand up fight; face-to-face.
I agree.
Getting ganked at a port spot sucks as well, huh? :p
I've had that happen twice. The second time I was able to BSOE just in time.
Some might call that carebear but I call ganking someone at a port spot carebear. Acceptable gameplay to many but still weak. Yet that is what we apparently have to do in order to stay competitive. I suppose in the end there really are no rules of war.
Either way, I prefer a stand up fight; face-to-face.
I agree.
Getting ganked at a port spot sucks as well, huh? :p
I've had that happen twice. The second time I was able to BSOE just in time.
Yeah, you and I were chatting when you didn't make it... :(
Some might call that carebear but I call ganking someone at a port spot carebear. Acceptable gameplay to many but still weak. Yet that is what we apparently have to do in order to stay competitive. I suppose in the end there really are no rules of war.
This is true. The idea of war is to make the other side cry "Uncle". Still...
Anyone complaining about not being able to train bots for gear need to just cut it out. I don't spend a whole lot of time in the catacombs for a very good reason. I go there and I see live players getting trained for gear, not bots. I tried training a bot group once, and they instantly log out. So that leaves the legit players to die and drop gear. And you know, the trainers don't care where the gear came from, bot or not.
Good change IMO, Griefers can find another way to make money.
Yeah, training bots for gear sounds good but it never worked all that well. Most of the trains are well-programmed; they forcelog on a large pile, and if one dies, the others pickup the drops before the time wears off. Only time I've gotten any drops at all were on trains that forcelog on really low HP and then automatically try to reconnect later; the leader reconnected right next to an aggro and was wiped almost instantly. That was the exception rather than the rule, though.
Some might call that carebear but I call ganking someone at a port spot carebear. Acceptable gameplay to many but still weak. Yet that is what we apparently have to do in order to stay competitive. I suppose in the end there really are no rules of war.
All is fair in love and war, training included, lowbie bashing included and 4% exp loss giving included. The idea of training your enemies before was to weaken them, item loss+exp loss=a lot bigger hit on the enemy than if you pvp kill them or pk them in one sided war. Some clans fight wars to exterminate the other clan. There is no surrender, disband or die. So yea, this change made it a bit more carebear for them since they got stripped of one way to fight their enemies.
People play this game for so very different reasons, some want to have fun, some want to associate with other ppl, some want to do a plethora of things and some want to dominate, pwn, WIN.
I want to do a plethora of things, including training with my Destroyer(yes, Destroyer training bots and warred parties when I still was in a clan). Not for profit, since I make alot more money on my WS doing crafts and playing the market than I would ever do with training(unless I trained a 9 man A-grade party and got lots of nice drops). I trained em to clean low lvl catas for low lvl players who have no chance of training them nor fighting their protectors if they manage to train the bots somehow. Yea, I could still do it but now I wont get even a small reward(which compensates for port costs and for possible use of SS/pots if protectors appear) for it, so training them is pointless. But training people that you're in war with is still a viable option, it still hurts them more than attacking them. And it works even in one sided wars, no item loss anymore but still better effect than just killing them.
Ganking at port spot is something that should be done to nukers and archers only ^^ But then again, all is fair in love and war.