S grade dorfs

just trying to work out what the best build would be
still want to hang onto my shield so 1 handed weapon is prolly the only option id accept
is the pattack increase on a basalt battle hammer (prolly never be +3) gonna output more damage than the meteor shower with focus?

EDIT: i take it there is no such thing as a S grade dwarf :P

Just go for the highest damage stuff you can always get more or less.

Anythiing will outdamage an meteor shower with focus as long as your unbuffed. Thers on other hand hadventages on geting an 2 handed blunt thoght, such as running targets you hit them harder, or robe users you 1v1 one this way beter as your stun will last longer ( have a chans to break on hit, and each hit is slower but harder = more damage )

As for armor always heavy, Light armor dosn't do it.

yeah i was waiting for your reply
i basically want to keep the shield for archer fights but i may rethink that if it gives me an edge
primarily im thinking of the olympiad but would love to keep my current set up for pve (+5 str -5 con)
i always have se buffs and dont kill a single mob without the golem

Have u guys actually tried light armour? I haven't bothered yet, but the fact that we get the masteries keeps nagging me.

light armor doesn't work for pvp, I've tried.

it does work pve, with reservations. you won't evade anything, for one. for another, you'll need a dedicated healer. however, doom light or (especially) plated leather can work for dwarf. you won't ever be an uber DD, but you can do some nice damage, especially while buffed.

I did some test on green/light blue mobs on PTS when it was up between Majestic Heavy and Nightmare Light.

the P.def difference was 16%, the evasion difference was 5%.

If you want to earn something on it, you need to evade 16% of the hits, on other hand you did not evade 16% on blue/green mobs.......

So truthfully Light armor sucks for dwarves.

all depends on the set bonii

I did some test on green/light blue mobs on PTS when it was up between Majestic Heavy and Nightmare Light.

the P.def difference was 16%, the evasion difference was 5%.

If you want to earn something on it, you need to evade 16% of the hits, on other hand you did not evade 16% on blue/green mobs.......

So truthfully Light armor sucks for dwarves.

Evasion doesnt work linearly like pdef does. How effective it is depends on the differance between your evasion and the accuracy of your attacker, you cant simply find the % of change to determine how effective an evasion boost will be. In most cases, no light armor will not be worth it. But lets say youre in olympiad versus someone who doesnt have good base accuracy and has no accuracy buffs... the evasion boost could make quite a differance. Also when you are going against nukers, pdef doesnt matter so youd prolly be best off with whatever gives you the most damage... Light armor sets are usually good for this.

Most dwarves I see do prefer heavy tho 8)... but for certain cases light could be better... Youre a dwarf! Buy em both ;)

Evasion doesnt work linearly like pdef does. How effective it is depends on the differance between your evasion and the accuracy of your attacker, you cant simply find the % of change to determine how effective an evasion boost will be. In most cases, no light armor will not be worth it. But lets say youre in olympiad versus someone who doesnt have good base accuracy and has no accuracy buffs... the evasion boost could make quite a differance.

It's unlikely anyone in olympiad will have worse accuracy than a blue monster.

Light Armor could be very nice...very nice for Dwarfs! Couse it's better to evade than to withstand the hits from mobs or a player. Take Zubey light for exapmple +4 evasion. You'll have 124 evasion @ 75 lvl. That's pretty good. And if you wear light armor - don't you wear a shield!

By the way. Why do u say that you don't want to get rid of a shield? What is better: to have bigger Evasion or P.def?? I can tell you 100% Evasion is better. Why? Couse you evade a 100% damage, and you can resist only 40-60% if you are with shield... But you are a Dwarf - and you don't have shield mastery. So, a shield is twice useless thing.
I think you should take "S" dual Blunt with either +25% HP or I would recomend with +HP regeneration SA.
Try Spear also (bigger P.atack and critical).

I was in plated leather till 55 on my dwarf and it worked fine. That and along with +5 str - 5 con w buffs was great for pve...Pvp leaves less to be desired on the other hand :P

Accuracy/Evasion works differently in PVE than in PVP. It has a much more profound influence in PVP, on the other hand monsters have high accuracy, negating good evasion alot (to battle evasion tanks).

Light armor can be decent on dwarves against archers, but even more so if you're fighting people lower level than you, then it's much better than heavy ^^

You guys also need to count in a few things here.

First off if they are MUCH lower lv then you, you will evade in heavy armor as well, so hers an % you need to count in for.

Secondly after that you need to count in the fact of the P.def difference between light armor and heavy, I know by fact that top A grade Light and heavy is 16% P.def difference. As someone wrote above low B vs top B is probably more like 30% P.def difference which mens you need to evade 3/10 hits MORE then the heavy armor.

I've done quite lot of intensive tests for this as I wanted to make sure what was the best option for me, Heavy is all around the best option, Light armor is never good for a dwarf in any situation.

First off to start evade 16% of the time in PVP, you need at least 12 DEX MORE then the other player, this won't happen at 78+ it will happen on an 7x char vs an 60 char. But then you also need to count in the loss in P.def and also how much your heavy would have soaked up the damage instead.

All I can say heavy will always be better.

And PS (Tallum Heavy = More damage then Plated leather ) just a note there.

I think you're pulling those numbers out of your ***.. if someone is lower level than you, like 10 leves, you're way better off in light armor, even 5 levels below is a very noticable difference. I'm a human archer with +5 dex, I evade same level players pretty decent even without agility, and humans have medium evasion at best..

Now if someone will hit you every hit, you're better off in heavy. At end-game I agree that in most cases, heavy is the way to go for meat shields. But don't discount it that easy. I've 1v1 a dorf in Draconic, me in Nightmare, he had no Dex-dyes but he beat me every time, because he took less damage in light than in heavy.. weird huh? :p


Of course I'm talking PVP here, PVE is totally different because of increased monster accuracy since C1(?).

well because of the pdef equation a person 10 lvls lower than you will hit you for basically nothing

the reason i prefer to keep the shield is because 99% of archers who step foot into the arena will have a draconic bow with focus
while a shield is useless for a dwarf against another melee the time spent getting kited and crited by a S grade archer makes the shield a logical choice

please no discussion on how leet plated leather is on a dwarf
while i agree im pretty sure it would need to be +30 before anyone actually wears it in the olypiad

I take my numbers from my *** alright. Here is the test I did. Where is yours if I may ask? And keep this in mind again, and specially what I wrote before, to earn it, you need to evade 20% by having 9 MORE evasion Get this okay? Becose the stats below if you use your Brain you will see that it's not gonna happen.

---------------------


Did a LOOONG and intensive test befor just sumerised the stats for it and the conclusion.

The conclusion is quite simple, to EARN on it you need to evade 2/10 hits on you to have light armor, if you find a spot like this sure go ahead you WILL earn on it, you for sure will earn on it being 75 and PVP chars below 60 they won't be able to barly tutch you.

And that kind of sumerise what I said befor anyhow, you have hte data below.

I will do a ton of more tests later on to try to figure out the exact curve the evasion / accurecy effect have, but that gonna require a TON of more tests.


Anyhow for theos who don't get the conclusion, to TRULY figure out if you earn on it or not we NEED to figure out 1 thing, that is if 9 evasion will make you evade 16% or more, IF IT DOES NOT, then it's NOT worth it, I hope you all get this, I don't have this data yet but from the test below I can say this si not true, you truly are beter of in Heavy armor if the difference is just 9 evasion, if the armor maby have Evasion bonus to put you up to 13 example then it MAY be worth it but as far as I knwo thers no higher lv armor for this except zubei light.


<font class="small">Code:<hr /><pre>
Okay thats all DATA I got, Now For the Defence difference.

Tested betweel Majestiv Heavy and Light.
840 P.def with Light Armor (+ Shield buffed )
975 P.def with Heavy Armor ( + Shield Buffed )

Damage difference:
With Light armor average hit by the orc no shots and low A grade sword.
Also Crits ecluded.
Light Armor: 38.4 In Damage.
Heavy Armor: 32,4 In Damage.

This Conclusion is that thers an ca 18% Damage Difference taken.
Just looking at the armor difference it says 16% deffence so in the reality it's probobly 16-18%
For evasion to be usefull you need to evade 1,6-1,8/10 hits
So to make it simple you need to evade on average 2/10 hits or more To truly earn on it.
Also you need to count in that you WILL probobly evade in the heavy armor to thers after all
an 9 evasion differece between Light armor and Heavy armor.



Now for how much you evade.


Evasion buff + Light armor on an Lv 75 BH.
Evasion 120.

Banderdnatch Lv 69 ( Duno what accrecy sadly )
Total Hit Miss
-----------------------------------
13 10 3
17 7 10
14 9 5
14 11 3
-----------------------------------
58 37 21
Ca 36% Evade Rate.



Dammerung Lv 75 War Cryer:

Blunt + buffed got 113 acc (7 Difference, also typical accurezy for that lv for melee )
Total Hit Miss
------------------------------------
13 13 0
13 11 2
13 12 1
14 14 0
-----------------------------------
53 50 3
ca 5-6% Evade Rate


With Spear remmember new penelty on accurezy so this test is what an average 60 and below wuld hit a dwarf for.
Acc: 96 (24 Differene )
Total Hit Miss
------------------------------------
22 5 17
22 4 18
21 5 16
------------------------------------
65 14 51
Ca: 78% Evade Rate.

With Sword:
Acc 108 (12 Difference)
Total Hit Miss
------------------------------------
16 10 6
14 11 3
15 12 3
15 12 3
------------------------------------
60 45 15
Ca 25% Evade Rate.

Acc 108 (Dwarf now 123 due +5 DEX so 15 Difference )
Total Hit Miss
------------------------------------
13 10 3
15 10 5
15 11 4
17 11 6
-----------------------------------
60 42 18
Ca 30% Evade Rate.</pre><hr />

reply to Mulch

PleChan is arguably one of the most knowledgeable BH's around. His english isn't the best but once you get around that he does know what he is talking about. I don't always agree with PleChan myself of course, but he doesn't just make numbers up, he has experience to back what he says.

Nice test, good to see some numbers, I can only speak from the little testing we did playing in the arena.

Would be really nice to see some graph of evasion vs accuracy. One thing is for sure, you can rely on pdef, evading someone is much more random. You also have the shield that you can use with Heavy, properly buffed it soaks up a lot of damage, especially from archers. Can you do a test with that?

Well the only thing I know is that a Hero Dwarf @ Divianne is wearing Draconic leather + Polearm. He also has +dex tatoo and + str.

you did under 100 tests ? O_o

you did under 100 tests ? O_o

Your point being? I never said the numbers where accurate down to the number, but they are about correct, give or take some % but it's not a big difference.

going light armor on S grade is draconic set. thats like a waste of money.

going evasion on a dwarf at that high lvl is so stupid it makes no sense. if ur a 76 dwarf what would u gain from a little more evasion from ur almost non exisistant evasion?

only light armor u would want to consider at 76 is probably PL set in a group (aoe is perfect example). but that obviously works in pve and not in pvp.

maybe u could get a nm light set if u have enuff money for mdef..

TBO, Sub and forget main..

Draconic + str and + dex tatoos = good Dwarf for partying! As long as it has +4% P.atack (as all Top "A" heavy armor have) and + 4 Atack. speed!

WHy get top A? When Tallum Heavy have so much more damage output then any other armor out there, yes even then PL, the 8% atk speed and +2 STR LOL, i don't see a reason to get a worser armor for worser bonus.

Btw P.def difference between top A and low A = 439 vs 464 = about 5,5% P.def difference as well so wouldn't go top for just that.

TBO, Sub and forget main..

done
but unfortunately nc wont let my necro compete in the olypiad so im trying to plan ahead
so best weapon to use in olypiad?
im thinking of going with tallum for the extra damage
tats?

you did under 100 tests ? O_o

Your point being? I never said the numbers where accurate down to the number, but they are about correct, give or take some % but it's not a big difference.

I am starting to doubt the accuracy of 100 tests after I ahve done 100 60% crafts and only have a 32% success rate.

The stun resist bonus of majestic heavy outweighs the benefits of the atk speed on tallum heavy. Tallum is by no means a bad set but for pvp and some areas (like hot springs) a maj heavy set wins hands down. I am grinding in hot springs with tallum right now and can tell you how much I wish for maj lol.

I am starting to doubt the accuracy of 100 tests after I ahve done 100 60% crafts and only have a 32% success rate.

Each and every time you craft you have a 60% chance of it working, that doesn't mean that from 100 attempts at it you will succeed 60 times. The effect is not cumulative, the game doesn't keep track of how many times you have failed and say "well this time he should succeed".

Each and every time you craft you have a 60% chance of it working, that doesn't mean that from 100 attempts at it you will succeed 60 times. The effect is not cumulative, the game doesn't keep track of how many times you have failed and say "well this time he should succeed".

True but over a long period of time you'd predict 60% will succeed. I would have thought 100 crafts should be long enough, assuming that's not an exaggeration.