Ya know going through the skill section, I noticed some things, Dwarfs arent half as bad as some people make them out to be, if you want to pvp on a dwarf maybe you should pick the correct build, correct me if Im wrong but there are 2 handed Axes out there now, that include the Health SA, ya know, Blade dancers and Sword Singers get no heavy armor masteries, and a SwordSinger just gets self buffs where BD only gets sting, you get a stun, that lands at a fairly high rate, maybe if some of you knew how to play your class, buffed of course, im talking buffed here by the way, you could do fairly well. Im really tired, I just noticed that BD and SwS dont get heavy armor mastery, so say fully buffed your in a Heavy Armor pvp party, and you have earth, warding, fire, wind, and fury on...you can still hurt alot of ppl god ****it, you will have higher p def than the **** blade dancer and swordsinger, not to mention a stun attack, you should be able to **** daggers, not to mention your exceedingly high weight and alot of money, cause all you lil [censored] are rich, you can spam cp pots, as well as your already insanely high cp. Maybe you should just learn how to work with what you got, you should by now realize this is a group pvp game, and tanks/heavy armor classes that arent DD based, dont get the kills, but you can still help absorb dmg, save your clannies with stun, make a ton of money, and survive for a long god **** time, not to mention higher up you get some sweet skills and skill enchants, if you dont get parties its because your not in a good clan or alliance, behind every good dwarf is a clan or alliance, stop crying.
As far as I know, SWS get heavy armor mastery, Heavy armor master at the last lv add 129 P.def ( and if all in S grade that difference is less then 10% defence, ) and an SWS makes up for it with it dances and yet have more then 30% defence then a dwarf LOL and more damage by the way.
I'm not really sure what skill you found in the list, neither do I understand your idea with 2 handed blunts.
You maybe didn't know this thought, 2 handed vs 1 handed have always been within 1% damage. Doom Crusher ( top A 2 handed ) vs Elysian Axe( Top A 1 handed ) the Doom crusher got 1% more damage, and it's still a blunt which make buffs as useless beside haste who you can use pots for.
There is of course advantages of having a 2 handed blunt as well as there is disadvantages.
But in any event, a 2 handed blunt will not make you win magically a ton of more things in PVP.
Not that it matters... even without the Heavy Armor Mastery, BDs still have a P.def comparable to Gladiators and Sword Singers in the same armor (maybe not sws if they go with shields). I have always been under the impression that while NCsoft removed the actual skill from the BDs list, the benefit is conffered anyway (but that's just my imagination... and I am bitter sinse my glad in +3 tallum has a lower P.def and a BD 3 levels lower in unenchanted tallum... which makes absolutely no god****ed sense whatsoever...
cause all you lil [censored] are rich, you can spam cp pots, as well as your already insanely high cp
dude dont bloody call us [censored] in the first place, *******
1 We are not rich because we are dorfs, anyone can play the market and get rich and spam CP pots, or suck at it and be poor regardless of our race. Dorfs are not rich cause they're dorfs, check up on some facts
2 Insane HP/CP? we're not #1 when it comes to big a ammount of HP/CP total and regardless of which bar is which you still have to chew through all of it so HP pots are just as usefull as a cp pot. Yes we can soak some damage but we're still not the 'insanest' hp class there is.
We dont come close to dealing the same damage as a real DD or another Tank UNLESS we sacrifice a very high chunk of our crit rate and attackspeed DEX (though i doubt its a good idea lowering that, crits and atk speed is valuable too) or our HP and CP which is CON and thus.. we dont soak up damage so much anymore and we STILL dont do as much damage as a real DD. Stun lands soemtimes yes but not nearly as often as we like to and usually it dont last too long either, my 13% cristun on my lance usually lands more often upong the few crits that i get with it :P And as we dorfs are buffed and in PvP suits lets just play with the thought that the other group is buffed and PvP setup in gear and tats also.... YAY stun resist suits
Yes we also get wrath that at high lvls remove a good % of CP... we run up remove a good bit of CP and whoops no blunt on since it REQUIRES a pole and we find ourselves dead before we can do anything else cause naturally they'd see that hit as a threat and remove of us so we dont completely clear their CP and stun is out of the question after that and since, well we're PvP setup now and it only takes like 1-3 nukes instead of 3-4 or 2 secs for a dagger to spam their skills instead of 6 secs, we're dead cause gee... we cant soak anymore due to the -CON :)
It is true, PvE we're not so bad but PvP... let me stop that thought and ask you, do you play a dwarf yourself?
Well it's been discussed before to death I think, but the general gist was:
1. Yes, dwarves can contribute in a group PvP environment, the larger the PvP, the better the dwarves tend to do,
2. Dwarves can and will kill other classes on the siege field but they won't "own" much of anything.
which is god **** fine, tank classes arent supposed to pwn, fact is they can beat daggers if they know how to play their class, archers will kite them, but thats there weakness, every class has weaknesses. And dont tell me its not easy for your classes to make money, spare me the bs.
No, it's not easier for a warsmith to make money than for a none-warsmith. It's just that people who are not interested in making money do not play dwarves. Naturally, dwarves are therefore usually played by market-savvy people. As a consequence of that, they're rich.
There is nothing a dwarf can do for themselves that being friends with a dwarf doesn't solve equally well.
As far as describing two-handed blunts as damage-dealing weapons, I do gotta ask: you remember that thing called stacking crit buffs, right? Where with just Dance of Fire, Death Whisper and Kitty buffs you wind up doing about six times your regular damage on a crit - that thing, you know, which makes blunts that don't have focus worthless as damage-dealing weapons?
Yes, a dwarf can stun a lot, and that's very helpful, but they most certainly can't DD effectively and stun with the same weapon (notable exception being the meteor shower: focus which allows for a semi-decent amount of crits (still about half of what you'd get with swords, maybe less) and stuns.
yes, if anything I would love to see 2h sword masteries on dwarves. I pity anyone I see walking around with the wasted adena on an elysian...I cant think of one potential possible benefit of using a blunt. Any dwarf who has thought about this uses a 2h focus sword such as an OE'd great sword your damage rate is much much higher.
a ws will make maybe 1% more than any other class that has the brains to use a private craft store (in many cases they will make more since we have to pay millions to register the recs)
2 handed blunts barely do any extra damage than a 1 handed blunt
and the slower attack speed means less stuns which is our sole purpose in mass pvp
bd has a higher damage/armour ratio due to crit rate and attack speed
tanks have about the same chance to kill someone as a dwarf (slightly higher because of the higher damage output of swords)
but as a bonus they can use skills like arrest or their more effective stun to completely turn the tide in pvp
i take it some higher lvl fully buffed dorf killed you in the arena and now you are ******
what? a dwarf rocks in pvp and makes leet adena?
which is god **** fine, tank classes arent supposed to pwn, fact is they can beat daggers if they know how to play their class, archers will kite them, but thats there weakness, every class has weaknesses. And dont tell me its not easy for your classes to make money, spare me the bs.
Dwarves are not a tank class, they are classified as warriors. Probably should get to know a class before you start spouting off about them.
the skills section means nothing about how good or bad dwarves can be it only lists what the skills do not how useful they are or reload timers or effectiveness on weapons or critrate you'll get with this weapon contra that etc, facts are that you dont know much about dwaves unless you actively play them and claiming that we rock at anything would be silly, yes we dont completely suck but everyone else sucks less than us.. except maybe a healer/buffer that neglected to learn any root or hold/sleep based skills going berserk on a battlefield or a warlord thats gone red, lol
To me this suckage is the fun part, makes things a challenge :)
As for market anyone can play it or cant, you dont make money 'because' you're a dwarf you make money cause you can play the market, now dwarfs have the extra weight (and here i will give you a concrete example, dwarf at lvl 60 with doom heavy without tatoos can carry around 200k soulshots and be around 90% weightlimit when a BD carries like 10k shots and be at 50%) ability and can carry alot more so they'd be the natural choice of char for those who only play for the market i guess cause they can carry more stuffs to play the market with and with the result that people see dwarves and thinks 'rich ********' when it has nothing to do with the dwarf itself since counter the weightlimit there's warehouses =) but all to do with the person behind it
I guess my point is to all dwarfhaters is that just because you read the skills list and its 'awesome, wonderful, outstanding, etc' that you dont know anything about how dwarves functions in the practical knowledge. Where do you think the opinion of 'dwarves suck for PvP' comes from? not because we wanna fool you or that we have sucky mouses and not the right PvP buttons on it, lol, its a hard cold fact tried over and over again, yes we can kill occasionally but thats mostly cause the opponents dont play their class very smart and underestimates us, we dont suck that bad as you can underestimate us but if you know what you're doing a dwarf suck in PvP to practically anything even if the dwarf is played right. So i'll repeat, just because the skills list looks good and you can read it (yay have a cookie) it doesnt mean that it actually -is- good.
Looks can and will ever so often decieve
What the heck is that about the skill list looking good ? Almost every other class got more skills already after the FIRST class change, than dwarves got after the SECOND class change.
which is god **** fine, tank classes arent supposed to pwn, fact is they can beat daggers if they know how to play their class, archers will kite them, but thats there weakness, every class has weaknesses. And dont tell me its not easy for your classes to make money, spare me the bs.
Dont get me wrong here. I like dwarves. I have a level 50 abyss walker. I challenge any dwarf of the same level to pvp. Reality is the dwarf wont win that fight. Sure they can stun. I bet my trick lands more than the stun does. I can UE. Thats 30 seconds a dwarf would be incredibly lucky to land a shot on me. Now lets not even get into backstab. I dont want to discourage anyone from playing a dwarf. They are not built for pvp really though.Great at seiges. Lot of fun to watch the hog cannon come out. Have fun with your dwarf. Just dont get to cocky and think you have the skills to beat anyone. Many players are more than willing to put you in your place on that issue. :p
I think there are basically 4 factors in PvP being 1. DPS (damage per second) 2. Range 3. Run speed and 4. HP
Dwarfs lack seriously in the first 3 departments, this can be compensated somewhat by stun if it lands and is'nt broken by the second hit. The result is that Dwarfs depend very much on luck factor in PvP.
Best way to find out is to actually play a Dwarf.
As far as the skill list: U cant judge a book by its cover.
you get a stun, that lands at a fairly high rate, maybe if some of you knew how to play your class
Im really tired, I just noticed that BD and SwS dont get heavy armor mastery
So let me get this right, you're trying to tell people how to play the game, when you don't even have basic knowledge of the game yourself?
all you lil [censored] are rich, you can spam cp pots
Every other class is richer, since every one of them can manor faster than a dwarf (even healers with a tag team), which is much more efficient than spoiling.
you will have higher p def than the **** blade dancer and swordsinger
Bladedancers have much better P.Def than a Dwarf, even without masteries.
/heavy armor classes that arent DD based, dont get the kills
Tell that to +Str Gladiators and Bladedancers.
stop crying
Dwarves have a lot to cry about, maybe if you actually listened to them and tried to understand why, you'd stop being such a jack.
In Full Plate my dwarf have lower P.Def than my Bladedancer did in composite. I compared them from old screenshots (which, coincidentally, I no longer have since my PC blew up).
well, FP and Compo is C grade, so your char is around lvl 50.
at that point BD can have higher PDEF than dwarf, but BD stops getting his armor masteries at lvl 40 and dwarves get them up to max lvl so dwarves will surpass BD's PDEF at higher levels.
i used to beat any BD -70 in B gear with golem out (full buff but i didnt share dances and golem wasnt buffable bck then). dono now.. id pay to see a 78 vs 78
A dwarf with a blunt will always beat a BD melee, you don't even need to see it. My BD has Majestic and still gets stunned almost 100%. So he has -5 Con, who cares. :p Even if its 50% stun rate, the BD isn't going to get much of a look in.
Remember that your PDef isn't stationary throughout the levels - there's a multiplier based on your level involved. Maybe Llothlian was in comp at around sixty and Girly in FP at 40 or so, that'd make a huge difference.
And ypu, warrior masteries are worse than knight masteries - but not that much worse.