NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe. The title started as a cult favorite of many massively multiplayer online (MMO) gamers in North America and Europe and continues its success as the premiere player-versus-player (PvP) online role playing game for the elite PvP player.
Lineage II was launched in North America in 2004 as a modest success. The game has since built itself into one of the top MMOs in the western markets, with a 25 percent growth rate in 2006. NCsoft credits the growth of the game to regular updates and free expansions to the product, and delivering features requested by players. Additionally, NCsoft has implemented aggressive policies to eliminate activities like "botting" and "farming" which give some players unfair advantages over legitimate players.
"This is a great franchise that has dominated Asia and now we are seeing very positive growth in North America and Europe," said Robert Garriott, CEO for NCsoft North America. "This game took a little time to find its audience because it is such a rich, tough and complex world. It is not a game for the faint of heart, but we worked to adjust the game to fit our customers and we’re seeing more players view it as the pinnacle of MMO gaming. More and more players are joining in and staying with Lineage II, making it one of the top MMOs in North America and Europe, as well as in the world."
Lineage II - The Epic Collection is available at North American retailers and at the PlayNC® online store for an estimated street price of US$29.99.
I'm pretty sure they doesn't count in active accounts, I'm pretty sure it's quite possible that they had 14 million accounts active at some point ( not all at once )
14million? LAWL! No offense but that is probably 14 million accounts have been activated at one point in time, they are counting the banned ones, the trial accounts, blah blah blah...you know...the number of 'different' accounts that actually logged in some time in L2's history. Cause I know that there isn't 14million active account world wide at the moment.unless they got confused with another MMO...erhrmm yeah...
100,000 active accounts in Both NA and EUROPE...not that many considering that 100k doesn't factor in % of farmers and dual boxed characters....
Anyway, l2 does have players...but I am definitely not seeing more actual players than I did back in c2...
wow mai you seem kinda whiney today
as mis stated "14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe>" which means that it depends what ncsoft determines is a "customer." which prolly does count in banned accts trial accts etc.
My question is if ppl hate this game so much and whine whenever a great milepost like this occurs why do you even bother posting?
Anyway, l2 does have players...but I am definitely not seeing more actual players than I did back in c2...
Well, i'm one of them !!! :D
I just got in at the end of C3 !
And as a matter of fact, i dont care if they got 14 millions or 300 millions accounts in Korea, i just think it's great that NCSoft NA (and Europe, now that i know they dont forget about us :p) gets more and more players, like the original post says this is a very rich and complex game and it deserves to be the top MMO over the whole bunch of crap that get released almost every day (how many more fantasy MMO do we need out there ?)
Just make a wider-available trial, maybe a bit of advertising and marketing, and i'm sure you will get thousands of new players !
Hmm, not whiny, I just don't like it when a company likes to blur the lines which almost amount to a lie.
This is the best MMO on the market, imo anyway, and that is why I play. I don't care, there is still enough people to have fun, although new blood is rare and it is even harder to find active parties because of issues such as buff bots and then if you want to level then you need to get your own personal buffer too.
I think it is great that the US and Europe have 100k active accounts. I can believe that. And thats great! But it would be so much more awesome if all those 100k accounts were active players and real life people... But nonetheless it is good.
It should have said over 14 million accounts have been created in L2's history. :D That would have been less deceptive I guess...because technically banned and inactive accounts aren't customers anymore...
It should have said over 14 million accounts have been created in L2's history. That would have been less deceptive I guess...
I don't think it's intentionally deceptive, I think the statement assumes that the reader has the common sense to realize that the number is total activated accounts.
It doesn't seem at all to be claiming that there are 14 million active players. Anyone who knows anything about online gaming knows that'd be crazy.
For the intent of a press release, it seems to make a much more positive statement to say "We've had this many customers. *holds up fingers* " than to say "This many customers have tried our game and quit. *sadface* "
NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide
Uhm...you may want to change that, its 14 million subscribers that has ever played, thats not the total active subscribers currently across the globe, even NCSofts own papers says so.
has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe.
Congratulations. Well done. :) *rounds of applauds to the team*
(active *accounts* btw :p , sorry, its the nitpicker in me)
NCsoft credits the growth of the game to regular updates and free expansions to the product
...servers actually moving to Europe, better communication, Mistryl ;) , fansites, free accounts give away, etc.
I think the statement assumes that the reader has the common sense to realize that the number is total activated accounts.
How would they get the "common sense" to assume this when other games always announce total current active accounts and even worse Blizzards constant announcements are the same.
The problem I see with stating this in this manner is that it will be taken by non-L2 players as a cheezy way to "one-up" WoW.
Its like yelling loudly at a party "Hah, I can run 100 metre race twice as fast as Carl Lewis". then when called on it you say "Well, I was counting running my feet while being driven in a fast car". Technically true, but most people wouldn't take it as such.
How would they get the "common sense" to assume this when other games always announce total current active accounts and even worse Blizzards constant announcements are the same.
.. By being sensible and reasonable people? :D I don't know what else to tell you, all it takes is a little applied common sense. I came to the conclusion, I fail to see how others can't. WoW's currently active population is, what, near half the number of L2's total activated accounts? That's a lot of people still playing. It's fairly common knowledge that their game is top dog, especially since they announce their numbers as you said.
I don't see it as trying to "one-up" anyone as much as it is a statement of "Hey, 14 million people have been interested enough to try our game." That's still a fairly impressive number, regardless of how few of those subscriptions were actually retained. (not to mention how many were multiple boxes) Halo 2 sold 9.2 million copies worldwide as of Summer 2006, but the number of people playing its online component today number in the hundreds of thousands.
Point being- the numbers are impressive regardless.
This is what they're saying, and I am sorry, common sense means that you apply what normally is meant by this sentence in the context of MMORPGs.
That's a lot of people still playing.
Actually that doesn't tell us anything about how many is playing, it could be 100.001 worldwide for all the reader knows. Yes, its an impressive number, but we have nothing to compare it with, in fact it could simply mean that the game sucks because people pick it up and then leave again (this creating a larger number).
I work alot in other MMORPG circles and I can tell you that the moment this number comes up, thats what its seen like, a deceptive way to one-up Blizzard, which is kinda sad.
But I guess they do need some way to attract peoples attention.
Actually that doesn't tell us anything about how many is playing
Yes, it does. When Blizzard says 7 million people are playing their game, I don't know how it can be more point blank than that. Read what I said again, I was referring to Blizzard's current online population being half of L2's total accumulated population in its lifetime.
thats what its seen like, a deceptive way to one-up Blizzard.
By you, perhaps. I don't see how it's trying to one-up Blizzard when Blizzard could easily come out and say that their total activated accounts probably number in the twenty millions, if not more. I think if they wanted to one-up Blizzard, they'd have made comparisons to other MMO's in the press release. Don't you agree? That's what a business does when trying to prove their product superior, as in commercials. They dig up information on a competitor and make a comparison. There's no hidden motive here, I think you're digging a little too deeply. :cool:
Yes, it does. When Blizzard says 7 million people are playing their game, I don't know how it can be more point blank than that. Read what I said again, I was referring to Blizzard's current online population being half of L2's total accumulated population in its lifetime.
It doesn't tell us anything about how many L2 players are playing. Wan't talking about Blizzard.
By you, perhaps.
No, by other non-l2 players out there. Heck, I have yet to see a single non-l2 player take it the way you present it, and believe me I get to see alot of those.
I think if they wanted to one-up Blizzard, they'd have made comparisons to other MMO's in the press release.
You don't one-up another company by comparing yourself to a third company. Blizzard often releases its numbers everywhere and now NCSoft is doing the same, with 14 million being the magic number (twice that of WoW's number).
Regardless of wether its meant as an one-up, its seen as one. Which I feel is unfortunate, but I guess its necessary to get attention.
It doesn't tell us anything about how many L2 players are playing. Wan't talking about Blizzard.
Right, but the post you quoted and argued was talking about Blizzard. I can see how you got confused. You may not have been aware of it, but effectively since I was talking about Blizzard in saying "That's a lot of people still playing" and you argued it, so were you.
You don't one-up another company by comparing yourself to a third company.
Which I wasn't implying. In the slightest. If they wanted it to be compared to WoW, they'd have said "Twice as many players as WoW currently has." They released the numbers because the numbers make a statement.
Regardless of wether its meant as an one-up, its seen as one.
Then it's unfortunate that these people are easily confused, but it seems pretty clear to me. You say "other" people think this way, but you might be surprised by how many can rationalize it. I think people deserve the benefit of the doubt. :D
Heck, I have yet to see a single non-l2 player take it the way you present it, and believe me I get to see alot of those.
Where are these people that have reacted to this press release and think that L2 is claiming to have twice WoW's subscriber base? I'd love to see. I mean it as no slander to them, but anyone who believes that is utterly clueless. Right below the 14 million in the statement is the number 100,000, which represents all of the U.S. and Europe. So these people believe that the other 13.9 million comes from where, eactly? China? South Korea? I mean, I know gaming is big in South Korea, but that would mean well over 1/3 of the country's population plays Lineage 2. No one in their right mind would believe that.
For one, the remark at "common sense" is only a dig/flame at me. Simply stating that I have none, or do not use it. Your not seeing what LC is saying imo, it is a simple fact that you don't want to let your opinion go, and end up falling victim to your own claim of "common sense."
The difference between McDonalds and an MMO, is you are not paying a subscription for McDonalds. You buy a burger, and you are a customer. When you go home, you are still not a McDonald's customer and (unless u still have ur burger or whatever), if you think that then you have a sad existence. When you are at the store eating or even sitting in your car when eating, you are a customer, when you are done eating you are not. You WERE a customer of McDonalds. Also "sold" implies a progressive progress happening in the past and most likely continuing in the future. Saying, "with more than 14 million customers worldwide" obviously represents the present because it is "WITH" meaning happening at this moment.
I guarantee you that any banned person that doesn't get another account is not a L2 customer...they are not playing and not paying a customer subscription fee anymore. Someone that gets a 14 day trail key is a customer for 14 days only, unless he continues to pay subscription fees. When you ban someone it is also known as terminating an account "aka" customer.
They couldn't compare directly to WoW per say, because the point is they are trying to "one-up" Blizzard or whatever by using clever usage of words. If they were going to compare to WoW they would have to compare active accounts, and we know what that would mean.
The point is, the 14-million subscribers is deceptive. We know their isn't 14 million subscribers because we play L2. So OUR "common sense" or whatever u wanna call it tells us thus, so we are not as likely fooled. But those who do not play L2 and see that will obviously think they HAVE 14 million customers world wide! And that in my opinion is using common sense, because it is basic understanding of English verbal tense forms.
For one, the remark at "common sense" is only a dig/flame at me.
It actually wasn't, as you were one of the people that realized what the numbers really represent.
Dial back the angst a bit, it's all good. :D
The point is, the 14-million subscribers is deceptive.
Except they never said that they have 14 million "subscribers". Customer can be used in a fairly loose definition, as Elrohir and Ellie have helped point out. You can try to be conspiracy theorists and find some dark motive to deceive, but it ends up seeming a bit silly, not to mention overanalytical and unnecessary.
I hope everyone is smart enough to realize when the McDonalds sign says "Over 10 billion served", they don't mean "right now".
Thank you NCSoft, I have played L2 for 2.5years now and imo it's the best out there. Now it's easy to say "but this game has that and there game you can do this" etc but one of the reasons I like L2 is the challenge. I don't want a game where things are just handed to you.
Additionally, NCsoft has implemented aggressive policies to eliminate activities like "botting" and "farming" which give some players unfair advantages over legitimate players.
Thanks for trying. Though it seems like trying to stop a forest fire with a squirt gun. It's nice after a ban sweep but then 2 weeks later they're all back with a vengance. It's been a huge problem for 2 years and it seems that just now you are realizing that. Now you can't even train them and get free stuff, though it is rather entertaining to see them trying to fight with all those debuffs.
Additionally, NCsoft has implemented aggressive policies to eliminate activities like "botting" and "farming" which give some players unfair advantages over legitimate players.
Thanks for trying. Though it seems like trying to stop a forest fire with a squirt gun. It's nice after a ban sweep but then 2 weeks later they're all back with a vengance. It's been a huge problem for 2 years and it seems that just now you are realizing that. Now you can't even train them and get free stuff, though it is rather entertaining to see them trying to fight with all those debuffs.
From time to time I check out a few of the "alternate" forums to amuse (and annoy) myself. People are getting banned; in large numbers. Some are even panicking. To me, that is a great sign.
Keep up the good work, Spam and crew! I'd send y'all (using Texas lingo) beer and pizza if I could! :cool:
From time to time I check out a few of the "alternate" forums to amuse (and annoy) myself. People are getting banned; in large numbers. Some are even panicking. To me, that is a great sign.
Keep up the good work, Spam and crew! I'd send y'all (using Texas lingo) beer and pizza if I could! :cool:
Yeah I check a few of the alt forums as well and most of them are full of complaints about getting banned and asking others what game they have switched to since getting banned. Quite a few of them seem to be giving up. And that means more fun for those of us playing legit :)
The 14 million number refers to the total number of created accounts worldwide. It's not intended as a lie. :p Although that seems to be the focus of the discussion in the thread, I did want to point out that the 100,000 active accounts in North America/Europe is the real big news in the announcement!
Thanks to everyone for continuing to play Lineage II! We appreciate your support and we strive to provide the best service possible for our customers.
The 14 million number refers to the total number of created accounts worldwide. It's not intended as a lie. :p
I sure am tired of being right.
Regardless of how people want to interpret the news, I think congratulations are in order. Reaching 100,000 subscribers is a mighty fine milestone. :D
No, you just said it was intentionally deceptive and an effort to one-up another company. Neither of which are true.
Mistryl's statement doesn't contradict any of that. Please, the people who work there definetly aren't dense, they know exactly how these numbers are used and percieved in MMORPGs. (and heck, there isn't even any other plausible intent)
And, btw, I must apologize, there was one instance where it was used, by UO way back, and they took quite a bit of bad publicity for it too, to the point where the devs had to make several statements.
Please, the people who work there definetly aren't dense, they know exactly how these numbers are used and percieved in MMORPGs.
Lots of businesses and corporations release sales figures or financial reports. Facts don't have the burden of bias. People can run with the numbers however they like, but the intent is to keep customers and investors apprised of their earnings/losses. Or in this case, to share an impressive milestone.
Of course NC isn't dense. According to you though, they want to pull the wool over the collective eyes of gamers with this press release. That doesn't seem like Mistryl's style. :cool: I don't see what NC has to gain there, because the fortunately few slowpokes that don't catch on will likely have it explained to them by a rational person. And nearly everyone that has discussed this on these forums has a grasp on what the numbers represent. A couple may say it can mislead people, but where are these misled individuals? You claim to know a lot of MMO gamers that may or may not be confused by it, which made me curious enough to try it myself. The WoW gamers I asked that I know in the IRL weren't thrown at all by the press release when the first few sentences were read to them. Granted, they're all capable, intelligent people. But it seemed crystal clear. Are they representative of the common gamer? Maybe not. But there it is, all the same. :D
This exercise in overanalysis has been fascinating, but it's really quite misguided.
Lots of businesses and corporations release sales figures or financial reports.
Yes, they do, but even NCSofts own reports uses active accounts to measure success.
I don't see what NC has to gain there
They have alot to gain, people will see the 14 million and read it. If they didn't believe that, why include it in the first place? The last couple of announcements are the only time they've used that number. They know fully well that an announcement of just 100.000 wouldn't attract outsiders attention on its own, thats considered small in todays MMORPG world.
Facts don't have the burden of bias.
In the way they're presented, yes, they most certainly can have bias.
grasp on what the numbers represent.
Of course we all have a grasp of what they mean. And most intelligent people can see its a much more meaningless number than active accounts, because it doesn't show popularity, nor does it really show if people are playing much worldwide. Its a psychological effect, just like shops will write 9,99 instead of 10,00 dollars, on the same token 14 million is alot more eye catching than 1,5 million.
They have alot to gain, people will see the 14 million and read it. If they didn't believe that, why include it in the first place?
I was talking about what NC had to gain with a questionably "sinister motive" to deceive the readers into believing that the 14 million is their active subscriber base, when people will just as easily grasp what it really means under their own power or not.
Context is important.
Its a psychological effect, just like shops will write 9,99 instead of 10,00 dollars, on the same token 14 million is alot more eye catching than 1,5 million.
Now you're catching on. And if everyone knows what it truly means as you just said (and as I've been saying), then there's really no harm done. :D To summarize: Lineage 2= good. Hawt chix cosplaying as Dark Elves= very good. (http://image.playforum.net:8080/gallery/hotel/10032003/111/4.jpg) Put on some Spock ears and a bathrobe and get your mack on.
Many will initially read it in the context of what customers mean in MMORPGs, then of course realize that NCSoft is using it differently, thats the while point.
But we can go on in circles forever, so yes, lets just agree that L2 = Good. I wouldn't be the Managing Editor of one of the biggest non-korean L2 sites out there if I thought the game was bad :p