NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe.
However, from the 14-day trial link:
over 14 million people have played since launch and thousands more join each day
Perhaps they should have said "with more than 14 million past and present customers worldwide..."
A quick look at MMOGCHART (http://mmogchart.com/), which was updated June 29 of this year, shows active subscriptions worldwide at just above 1 million. I'm sure it's gone up since then, but I doubt there are 14 million active subscriptions today.
Note: I'm not saying their numbers are wrong, but I do think they are misleading.
The original quote is perfectly clear to me. I don't think anyone would assume that everyone that's ever created an account is still playing.
But they would assume that customers are active players, since thats how its normally used. Active accounts shows an active game, how many customers there's been is pretty meaningless in a MMORPG (as opposed to McDonalds, where people don't subscribe to their food, and you're really going out on a logical endpass to even try and compare this with McDonalds), since all that shows is that we cycle through alot of accounts and don't retain people, because the longer people stay, the less that number would have been.
But then you see McDonalds have that "Over x billion served" as their slogan. Does that mean x billion people frequently buy from McDonalds? That is misleading too.
But then you see McDonalds have that "Over x billion served" as their slogan. Does that mean x billion people frequently buy from McDonalds? That is misleading too.
That's different. "served" is past tense, and has nothing to due with their current customer base.
But then you see McDonalds have that "Over x billion served" as their slogan. Does that mean x billion people frequently buy from McDonalds? That is misleading too.
No, because McDonalds isn't a subscription based place. The more they serve, they better they are (because people are coming back), the same doesn't hold true for MMORPGs, if I keep playing for 3 years, day out and day in, I count as 1, if 5.000 players join and think the game sucks, leave, they count as 5,000. In the McDonalds case I would have counted as a customer for every meal I had.
So the comparison between the two is completely invalid.
As for SirE, pleaes show me the MMORPG company, game site, game research site or otherwise besides NCSoft that uses the numbers like that.
As for SirE, pleaes show me the MMORPG company, game site, game research site or otherwise besides NCSoft that uses the numbers like that.
I wasn't speaking about MMORPGs specifically but company publicity statements in general. Use some common sense. I took it at face value and immediately understood what its intent was.
You may now continue being offended by the statement. Some people like going out of their way to be offended by something.
This is a MMORPG, this isn't a restaurant, it isn't a nuclear facility, it isn't NASA, this isn't the YMCA, its a MMORPG.
Therefor any terms will be taken in context of MMORPGs.
You're free, of course, to do what you like. I'll continue to do what I like. However, I don't need to read a bunch of MMORPG sites to know what the statement meant. Only a complete moron would've read it and thought "There are currently 14 million people logged on!"
I took it at face value and immediately understood what its intent was.
Oh, I think people understand what the intent is.
Then man-up and say it. Quit tap-dancing and say what you think, like an adult.
You may now continue being offended by the statement.
Ok, lets try this again...this isn't about how you and I take it (heck we're playing L2 anyway), this is how its taken by the MMORPG community in general.
Then man-up and say it. Quit tap-dancing and say what you think, like an adult.
Ok, lets try this again...this isn't about how you and I take it (heck we're playing L2 anyway), this is how its taken by the MMORPG community in general.
And like I said, only a moron would read it and say "Jeepers! 14 million people are playing L2. Screw you, WoW!"
The point is, it is publicity! It is intended to fool people that have never played L2 or maybe people that even played it long ago to think that now it is way more popular than it was housing over 14 million customers world wide!
We know this isn't true because the L2 community knows it isn't. To us it is common sense, to some guy reading game reviews it is "wholly cow, look how popular this game is 14million customers world wide." That is where it sits! It is meant as a ploy to make the game seem extremely popular.
Common sense would tell us that a customer is a current subscriber. That is common sense! Someone that had their account terminated or quit is not a customer anymore. You are not a playboy magazine customer if you don't buy the magazines or if you aren't subscribed to get them, even if you were a PREVIOUS customer...but not a current customer. So saying that you have 14 million customers world wide is bad wording if anything, playing on people's likely hood to want to believe statistics.
The only reason that this was brought up is because it is questionable. If you do not find the wording questionable then you are either trying to defend NCsoft (dunno why) or you aren't being open to reality...
The point is, without previous knowledge of the L2 player base, this advertisement is very misleading... But most advertisements are, they just don't try to fudge statistics that much unless it is some political advertisement.
If you do not find the wording questionable then you are either trying to defend NCsoft (dunno why) or you aren't being open to reality...
I saw the statement and immediately assumed it meant 14 million accounts had been opened from the beginning. I'm no expert on MMORPGs. I have only briefly (like for hours) played any other one. I don't spend time reading about the "MMORPG community" or other game forums. I do, however, possess a large degree of common sense. Unfortunately, that seems to be lacking greatly by several people here.
NCsoft today announced Lineage® II, with more than 14 million customers worldwide, has reached 100,000 active players in North America and Europe.
However, from the 14-day trial link:
over 14 million people have played since launch and thousands more join each day
Perhaps they should have said "with more than 14 million past and present customers worldwide..."
A quick look at MMOGCHART (http://mmogchart.com/), which was updated June 29 of this year, shows active subscriptions worldwide at just above 1 million. I'm sure it's gone up since then, but I doubt there are 14 million active subscriptions today.
Note: I'm not saying their numbers are wrong, but I do think they are misleading.
so when they give numbers on how many cd's an artist sold, they should only tell number for the people who are still listening to that cd and not the ones who arent anymore?
How can you claim to have common sense when you're trying to act like you know something about what these words means, then admit you really have no idea.
Its absolutely irrelevant wether you think its moronic or if McDonalds has a trillion burgers thrown after people, what counts is the gaming communities which this is aimed at.
so when they give numbers on how many cd's an artist sold, they should only tell number for the people who are still listening to that cd and not the ones who arent anymore?
Give me a subscription based artist, then we can talk.
How can you claim to have common sense when you're trying to act like you know something about what these words means, then admit you really have no idea.
Simple. Because I am correct about what they mean.
And thats why your common sense is in question, because what was being questioned wasn't their meaning, we all know what it means.
You're talking about a supposed "hidden meaning." Yeah, I get that. I'm not dense. However, I still understand that 14 million refers to accounts created. I don't know how else to explain it to you.
I read it as 14 million people have played, Not necessarily play anymore, but have PLAYED lineage 2.
Now, if they said 14 million people PLAY lineage 2, then that would be false advertising.
It's not misleading unless you decide not to READ what is placed on the paper. Played means in the past, now if you are going to argue the contents of what the past is....I'll start screaming.
The content is not misleading, it is pretty clear. They have played, and don't play currently.
Total amount of people who have played from the beginning, while probably not playing anymore.
No, there's no hidden meaning. The problem is that there is a common usage of the word in the gaming community and what its understand as in gaming circles, which makes this a very misleading number (and its a rather silly number to use in the first place since it doesn't show pupolarity on its own, but I can see how it sounds good and attracts attention).
However, I still understand that 14 million refers to accounts created.
I was one of the first to point that out (if not the first) back when this number was used the first time. I know its refering to all accounts ever created in the game, but this is like McDonalds all of a sudden claiming they served 14 trillion customers simply because they now count each individual item you order as a seperate customer order.
What if I just buy the game and then do nothing with it? Isn't that considered a "customer"? NC makes money off each box-set sold. You need to take into consideration that the game might have been given to alot of people as a gift. I know I've given L2 as a gift thrice. Two played for about a year, one never even opened the box.
To Shonen, FYI, it doesn't say PLAYED it says WITH! "...with more than 14 million customers worldwide..." Nothing here is past tense, actually quite the opposite, it is present tense...if it said PLAYED we probably wouldn't have the problem... Ur mind decided to fill in the words that WERE NOT present in order for it to make 'sense' but since these words you speak of are not present, the true answer is obvious...
Eveyone on these forums know what the TRUE meaning of these words are. The truth is what causes the arguments. If people were naive as you thought they were Sir.E then there would be no discussion. There would be no questioning the 'wording' of NCsoft because naive people would automatically think what is said is true.
Your common sense if flawed. Basic English grammar will prove that the word "with" when used correctly represents a present action or state. Your previous knowledge is clouding the new knowledge stated. Again l2 players (unless living under a rock) all know that L2 doesn't have 14 million customers as NCsoft states, but rather that they HAD 14 million customers over a certain given period of time.
To question someones common sense is naive and in the end will only come back to bite you in the ***. Common sense would tell you that a customer is someone who is being served by a company or firm.
I could point out a few things about your personality which are quite amusing sir.e, but I will not judge people from what I see on a forum...I mean in RL you actually might seem bright or whatnot...
Anyway lets define a customer, I will use some help from my friend Webster...then you can decide if the sentence NCsoft stated was meant to be deceptive since Webster is the authority on the English language...
Customer 1.) A person who buys, esp. on a regular basis. 2.) A person with whom one must deal.
Obviously a banned or trail account that isn't active is not purchasing anything from NCsoft after their termination (usually) or trial period. So obviously they are not a customer. NCsoft after termination or voluntary quitting...whatever, will not deal with that person for more than a few weeks if that person tries to revive their account or whatever. ACTIVE accounts = CUSTOMERS. End of the line!
This is less a test of "common sense" as some may wish to call it, but more of a test for reading comprehension. When you read something that can have multiple meanings you can assume many things on it's meaning. But we all know what assuming does right? We shouldn't assume, we should use our education to understand the written meaning of the sentence, not the the assumed meaning.
What if I just buy the game and then do nothing with it? Isn't that considered a "customer"? NC makes money off each box-set sold. You need to take into consideration that the game might have been given to alot of people as a gift. I know I've given L2 as a gift thrice. Two played for about a year, one never even opened the box.
Well it depends. If you bought the game box from a NCsoft affiliated store such as the play NCstore then you WERE a customer of NCsoft. If you bought it from like gamestop then you were a customer of gamestop. Without logging into the game and activating an account you were never a customer of Lineage II, and will never be until you reactive your account again...
That game box you bought if from gamestop...NCsoft already made the money from the store purchasing the game for resale. You gave the vendor your money, not NCsoft. The vendor hopes that you buy it so that they can make profit from purchasing the game to sell from NCsoft....
I could point out a few things about your personality which are quite amusing sir.e
what does my personality have to do with anything? If you cannot judge what I say by my words instead of what you think of me personally, we cannot have an intelligent discussion. End of story.
I mean in RL you actually might seem bright or whatnot...
Nah, I'm a moron. But a moron that was able to figure out what the numbers meant the instant I read them. Fortunately, you'll never get the chance to meet me in RL.
2.) A person with whom one must deal.
I must deal with my wife on a regular basis. This does not make me her customer.
do any of you have access to the data to suggest it is not the case or is the case? if they claim 14mill accounts active they probally have more access to the facts than any of us here. Are they lying then? Who knows. 14mill is alot either way even compared to WOW. l2 is the most massive of the mmorg's. Just because it has more accounts in the asian countries doesnt take away from the games success. L2 is the pvp mmorpg for the hardcore gamer. Doesnt have much else going for it but that much is true. You want player vs player combat in a mmorpg, try to find a better game. WOW is not it. Maybe some of the new games comming out will replace L2 for pvp, but nothing else has done it so far.
To Shonen, FYI, it doesn't say PLAYED it says WITH! "...with more than 14 million customers worldwide..." Nothing here is past tense, actually quite the opposite, it is present tense...if it said PLAYED we probably wouldn't have the problem... Ur mind decided to fill in the words that WERE NOT present in order for it to make 'sense' but since these words you speak of are not present, the true answer is obvious...
not sure if anyone said this, but, those accounts are still with NCsoft. They dont delete the accounts. So saying "with more then 14 million" is correct as NCsoft still has those accounts. Just cause they arent active or havent been active for 3 years, doesnt mean the accounts arent with NCsoft anymore.
Im sure someone from open beta, if they knew their info, could reactivate their account.
do any of you have access to the data to suggest it is not the case or is the case? if they claim 14mill accounts active they probally have more access to the facts than any of us here. Are they lying then?
they never said the 14m are active. They did say over 100k active in NA.
What they are saying is, if you combine all the NCsoft data for L2 worldwide, there would be a list of over 14m accounts.
Never once has NCsoft said they are going to deleted accounts if not used. Im pretty sure they would announce something like this for various reasons.
this game is a pvp game, it needs many active players to shine, with few players it´s just a really bad pve game.
Actually this is NOT a PvP game...Guildwars IS...this is made for mass PvP (like sieges) or roleplaying...yet 99% of the ppl in here,just focus on the PvP...sorry mates...wrong game :p :p :p
That was more of a tribute to Douglas Adams than anything else. I really hoped someone would've gotten it. :(
I played EQ for about 1 hour. I played WoW for a little over 2 hours. I honestly do not care if I am included in their "customer" numbers. I don't listen to music or watch movies based on popularity. Why the hell would I play a game for that reason?
Like Mistryl said in the other thread, the main point of the release was that we've eclipsed 100,000 accounts and that the game is growing. PR's reference to the global numbers is to put things in a global context.
Really, it's all good news for the game. No need to get too worked up about it. This coupled with *other* events means that y'all should keep seeing new blood joining the servers.
Like Mistryl said in the other thread, the main point of the release was that we've eclipsed 100,000 accounts and that the game is growing.
Thats awesome news. We've ecplipsed some pretty impressive milestones ourselves in the last 6 months, so I think things are boding well for Lineage 2 in US/Europe. Well done.
PR's reference to the global numbers is to put things in a global context.
You can't really put a number of active accounts into context of a number based on all opened accounts ever, heh. Apples and Oranges. :D
this is the best pvp game . Guild wars is lame!!! not really even a mmorpg. more like diablo engine. L2 is all about pvp, what else is there in game? WOW has better pvp than Guild wars. pvp with consequence is challenging pvp, all the others are cute lil care bears...
this is the best pvp game . Guild wars is lame!!! not really even a mmorpg. more like diablo engine. L2 is all about pvp, what else is there in game? WOW has better pvp than Guild wars. pvp with consequence is challenging pvp, all the others are cute lil care bears...
In the original Ultima Online, if you died, everyone could strip your body of most of your possessions.
pvp with consequence is challenging pvp, all the others are cute lil care bears...
You dont drop items when you are killed now.
If you are in a siege you can use an item that means you dont lose xp when you die.
If you are not in a siege you can get blessed resurrected and get back all the xp you lost. Even if you have no blessed res scroll a bishop or EE can give you back most of the xp you lost.
this is the best pvp game . Guild wars is lame!!! not really even a mmorpg. more like diablo engine. L2 is all about pvp, what else is there in game? WOW has better pvp than Guild wars. pvp with consequence is challenging pvp, all the others are cute lil care bears...