It seems lately that every group that I join has these tactics.
We enter the area, and the leader(s) just takes off whacking everything in sight until they die. The poor healer doesn't have a chance because the group is so split up.
Does anyone know what "squad tactics" are?
The people in the front watch the front; the people in the back watch the back; and the people in the middle provide support. This, of course, requires that the group stays TOGETHER.
Whew...rant over...thanks I feel much better now..... :confused:
These are new people who don't know how to play this game. You have to know how to maintain a party in the dungeons in LineageII. Healer/buffers/nukers have to be able to maintain and regulate MP. Damage dealers have to know the mobs and pull mobs that aggro on sight, pulling those mobs away from social mobs (mobs that help other mobs) Then kill the mobs that don't give a shiit lastly. Have fun.
Yeah and it helps if a healer/buffer talks to the tank about how to party the room so MP last. (I myself have seen too many people learn how to tank.) It's not a big deal but it's necessary. Tank is the one to blame if party gets overloaded.
Gotta weigh in on your comment from the 'tank' perspective.
I've been tanking in dungeons and in hunting grounds and on RB's for quite awhile now.
Generally I know what I'm doing.
Nothing is more frustrating than concentrating on the mobs and making selection and maneuvering choices only to find some Glad or BD decided to grab 4 or 5 mobs at the same time the tank thought everyone was following them!
Imo, DD's are the ones that don't know how to pull and can't keep in their place when they are new to groups. Tanks learn very early that you better be able to handle what you pull cause they don't have the patk to eliminate the mobs quickly.
More inexperienced groups have been killed from the actions of DD's than have ever been killed by the tank or some healer.
It seems lately that every group that I join has these tactics.
We enter the area, and the leader(s) just takes off whacking everything in sight until they die. The poor healer doesn't have a chance because the group is so split up.
Does anyone know what "squad tactics" are?
The people in the front watch the front; the people in the back watch the back; and the people in the middle provide support. This, of course, requires that the group stays TOGETHER.
Whew...rant over...thanks I feel much better now..... :confused:
dont play with noobs.
when party splits do as the wise. SOE. when they ask why, tell them plainly. stay together or die.
when they kick you, begin the next 3 hr wait for a pickup group.
sometimes its good to box a buffer. you can fall back on old reliable.
nope
its what i do too
if you come party with me ill just run off and start bashing mobs, ill never pull more than i can handle and if you dont keep up and die its your fault
I get impatient and split off sometimes - but only if I know that I can handle whatever crap I pull if the tank chooses the exact moment to start pulling again. :p
Well, I play mostly DDs. And I understand my backup position to the tank. I do usually tell the Healer to "Let 'em die". when 2 people go running to the next room.
I played with a PLayer on Bartz, that had just rolled a new toon. It was great going to AC, and having someone give orders like: "Left", "right", "behind", "rest"...etc. Unfortunatly she went back to her main, so I'm back on Dev., with my lvl 32 Elf...soon to be Silver Ranger...I hope...
If anyone is still low enough to team with me, I promise that I always "got your back".
Loriena on Dev.
It seems lately that every group that I join has these tactics.
We enter the area, and the leader(s) just takes off whacking everything in sight until they die. The poor healer doesn't have a chance because the group is so split up.
Gotta weigh in on your comment from the 'tank' perspective.
I've been tanking in dungeons and in hunting grounds and on RB's for quite awhile now.
Generally I know what I'm doing.
Nothing is more frustrating than concentrating on the mobs and making selection and maneuvering choices only to find some Glad or BD decided to grab 4 or 5 mobs at the same time the tank thought everyone was following them!
Imo, DD's are the ones that don't know how to pull and can't keep in their place when they are new to groups. Tanks learn very early that you better be able to handle what you pull cause they don't have the patk to eliminate the mobs quickly.
More inexperienced groups have been killed from the actions of DD's than have ever been killed by the tank or some healer.
That is so true. Many DD feel very secure with the presence of others in a party so they start killing anything within range. The result is that the group tries to keep them alive (wasting MP and SS/SPS) instead of supporting the tank and making good profit/exp.
Would it be safe to say that the tank should always lead? When I tank with my DA i make sure everyone is ready, then i go in. I keep an eye on my chat box to make sure I dont miss anything, like healer out of mana etc. I also keep my eye on the group life/mana bars too. if someone starts to repeatedly pull aggro (when i am useing hate even) I give a reprimand (sp) then boot them. Its not wirth the trouble in my opinion.
It seems lately that every group that I join has these tactics.
We enter the area, and the leader(s) just takes off whacking everything in sight until they die. The poor healer doesn't have a chance because the group is so split up.
Does anyone know what "squad tactics" are?
The people in the front watch the front; the people in the back watch the back; and the people in the middle provide support. This, of course, requires that the group stays TOGETHER.
Whew...rant over...thanks I feel much better now..... :confused:
Let the leader run off a few times and die. Maybe he'll get the idea to what for his support team.
My pet peeve are those that run off in the middle of buffs. When I'm the buffer, and buffing with a macro, if they start running off, I stop buffing. They figure it out pretty quick.
My thought is that if you are a party then play like a party. Otherwise go solo.
Tank is in charge of picking mobs. That's his/her job and a good tank IS maneuvering the room in such a way that they don't pull too much.
People go off because they can take on extras only to find out a spawn just happened behind them.
Also, and perhaps people didn't get this one, if you divide the group then the main mob is going down that much slower which means slower xp. No wonder many people prefer to solo.
Tank is in charge of picking mobs. That's his/her job and a good tank IS maneuvering the room in such a way that they don't pull too much.
A tank pulling too few mobs (pulling them too lately or too rarely) is not good either. I'm yet to see a DD that runs for a distant non-aggroed mob when there is another mob pounding on a tank (I've seen a lot of DDs - and even tanks -that don't see mobs sleeping behind their backs, though).
People go off because they can take on extras only to find out a spawn just happened behind them.
Extras usually die faster than these just spawned mobs aggro, though.
For me, the prime reason for running off is inactivity from the tank - if the tank isn't targeting anything for, say, 10 seconds or so (right-click-spam ftw) and there's a mob there for all that time, I start moving eventually.
The tank pulling is all good, but if the tank is pulling slow, DDs are bound to get antsy - I've played with many tanks that target a mob only when they're almost on top of it, and that usually means assisting DDs get there way late, costing the healer more MP/mob than the DDs crowding over the same mobs are.
If the tank is slow, I prefer a dagger or archer to pull - or even someone with hex.
I'm an SR tank/puller, we would do full rooms (argo group mobs) in imperial tomb, with SR(me) HE, SH, SpS, Bish, SE, and that's it', i was puller and tanker, ...
i find that if you're in a necro or inclosed place tanks are best for pulling, but in an open area... DD pulls are the best, but not a DD that don;t really know how to play their class yet, that's when it get tangly.
and I was tanking/pulling down there when i was lvl 70
Just follow party leader or main tank and heal him/her. If anyone dies out of your range ... well ... they should stick together. They'll learn eventually.
I still don't buy it. If the tank is pulling too few mobs then let them know. they are not going to learn unless someone tells them.
or else don't party with them again.
I've seen too many parties where there were several little fights going on and not really efficiently. There is the main party trying to take down the mob the tank pulled, the DD (or two) who is (are) hitting on other mobs because they can but should be lending their talents to the main party to take it down quicker or and the people in the back who have to contend with adds while the others are busy.
I'm sorry, but I just don't consider these good parties.
There is a difference if there is a mistake and someone pulls the wrong mob, but that is why the tank is there, to pull that mob back on to him (her).
The only time I've ever fought mobs by myself (while in a party) are in the top floors of TOI where the are Angels/and other weak to wind mobs that have glommed on to the tank.
I can usually clear out of few of these in a few hits (with surrender to wind) and ease up on the tank's job. But I usually tel the tank that if such an attack happens to just let me deal with it and he can then pull and hold the non wind weak mobs. It's all about communication and knowing what others are going to do in certain circumstances.
But in no other way will I be in a party and just pulling other mobs for the sake of it. Especially because good tank is going to be watching for all these adds. Now you are pulling his attention away from the floor and to you and the mobs you've pulled.
But if this is how others like it, then fine. I just don't want to be in your party.
The main thing is whether or not the tank keeps pulling - I usually just say 'I'll pull' if I'm unsatisfied with the tank's targeting, and that's that. I can regenerate back the hits I take (if any at all) just fine, and it cranks up the exp.
A tank need not be a good puller, although many feel it is not only their duty but also their perogative - they do need to be a good CC.
Both healers and daggers have better options for pulling.
There are three cases why a group can be split in their spot:
1. Natural factors that cause a group to split to get better exp here. There are 3 main factors that can limit a group's exp rate:
1.1. Group's MP. When it is regenning slower than spending, you may want to optimize its usage. Usually it means that the group must stay together. For a melee group it can also mean that all members hit one target, although melees may want to pull (and tank) by turn, to optimize the load on the healer. If there is a nuker (or even a healer with Turn Undead) in the group, it still can want to fight several mobs at once (melees finish off the previous mob while a nuker pulls the next one).
1.2. Group's DPS. When the killing rate is the limiting factor, it's quite natural to fight those mobs that have weaknesses but not those that have resists. If a group has different kinds of DDs (different "optimal" mobs), it's natural for them to fight several targets at once.
1.3. Mobs respawn rate. If mobs respawn too slowly for a group's DPS, it's natural for a group to "spread" and cover larger area of respawn. The classic (but not the only) example is AoE groups, especially ones with several pullers.
2. Mistakes of group members can also be responsible for group splitting associated with non-optimal exping:
2.1. Spliting as a primary mistake (overpulling). Caused either by the lack of agreement on who pulls (a tank is not always the best candidate for a puller) or by lack of discipline.
2.2. Splitting as a compensatory mechanism where current pulling is not optimal for group exping. Usually caused by lack of (general or specific) experience by the puller. Very common, for example, between tanks partying an EE for the first time. Demonstration of what the group can sustain is usually the best way to train a puller there.
3. Not everyone hunts for exp. Spoiling extra mobs, or even getting extra fun as a group can be associated with splitting a group, too.
the problem alot of times it seems to me the fact that ppl ignore true tanks (hate trained above the lvl 40 skill set + hate aura) im not saying this cause im a tank and feel left out of groups.. im saying this because in high lvl dungeons mob control is a must
BD, SwS, Destroyer, Dwarf(?) all work great as tanks for 1 mob as long as they attack it b4 the rest of the group and can do enuff dmg to keep it if it gets away they have a hard time pulling it back
bd - sws can use arrest to control a mob but its hard to arrest 3 or 4 mobs and lead target while dancing
if your heading to a heavy mob count area (most high xp areas) going w/o a tank is asking for a group to be split up, drained of mp, and really stressed to keep it going
not saying it cant be done... if everyone is synchronized cutting a low damage dealing tank out of the picture and taking on a xtra dd can increase xp
stability is where the the tank comes in a true tank can control X amount of mobs and remain targeted and attacking 1 of them
the healers job becomes simple... instead of switching targets every few seconds to heal
saving 1 persons life while another is getting ganked
heal the tank the only person taking dmg
the dds job becomes simple instead of trying to decide who to assist or if they should try to control 1 of the few mobs attacking random ppl in the party
assist the tank who has 1 mob targeted and the others hate auraed on to him
everyones job becomes simple pretty much just follow the tank assist or heal....
sure you may kill 3 less mobs per buff round w/ a tank instead of a dd in that party slot
but you can xp indefinatly instead of burning out your resorses after a hour
when you get high level you won't even need tanks in a group.. I xp in IT with a CoV archer party.. we have no tank, and we can do the group mob room just fine. in fact we kill way faster than it spawns. :s
the group mob room is 10x10 feet CoV +++ everything - speed... there is alot of areas in game that standing in 1 spot w/ all mobs in range isnt possible
or maybe it is the fault of the healer hence everyone run away? i played with some healer, i don't know if the are dreaming or what. they are so ******...by the time they click on the heal , i l already dead..
I play both a Destro(good hybrid tank,DD) and a DA the prob most the time wth anybody else taking there own mobs except the main grp tank is the risk that incures when ur low on ressources like MP.If anybody else pulls that means they might need a heal also,so less MP for heal for the dude that takes the most and generally 85% of the hits from mobs so when a tank takes on a bad pull either unseen respwan,link mobs ect ect (trus me it happens ive been a tank/puller in all my MMOrpgs and i still get some )so it leaves ya with less MP for those critical moments,then what happens either tank dies cauz when ur a Destro tank or DA with hate u take back aggro of mobs ,then tank is left with to many mobs may not be able to handle.And even if the tank is not dead and everybody managed to stay alive ur still left having to sit down to regen and we al know thats not to xp productive.
The reasons to have a tank is that its easier to manage mobs and ressources .If u pull 1 mobs then assist tank it will be faster to kill thus less mp consumtion on heals and if one dude tanks only one dude to heal thus less mp for heals simple is it not,so u'll either have enuf mp for heals in those critical moments and/or more mp for the long haul thus more xp for ur buck
We all take on a role went u pick a class a tanks jobs is to manage mobs and take there beating,as a tanker its usally ur job to know the mobs,how many u can take on,if there aggressive or passive,if there link or not ,knowledge ur suppose to get as u go on in lvls.
Personnally i hate when people take on other mobs while im tanking one specially when there close enuf and they are link,cauz i know as soon as hit one ,that sucker gonne turn to me fast,or if i play my DA and i feel carebearish and i hit hate so that the little low Pdef DD doesn't take on to much damage and die.
Anyways just do the jobs ur class is meant to do if ur a DD then assist the tank and deal ur damage ur not a tank u either dont have the Hp,Pdef or aggro capabilaty for it,if ur support class then support.It not a question of if ur capable to take on the mob it's how u want to spend ur game time u wanna spend ur time rezing and/or sit to regen every 15 to 20 mins or ur wanna hit mobs till moms calls u for diner lol.