Just wondering what your guys oppinions are on which is the best tank class. I have a b-grade DA but i haven't used him since C4. Just wondering if tanks have gotten any help or if they are still pretty much left to solo in the corner. lol as u can tell i haver some hard feelings towards soloing. Thanks for the input.
I love my lvl 58 DA, use the cat with beast SS and you are a soloing machine, especially if you get prophet buffs. But just with the herbs its great too.
I may seem biased, but i've played every tank except a temple knight and can safely say the dark elf offering is the superior tank. Dark Avengers come in a close second but their lack of matk makes their magic lackluster. However, they do have the advantage of looking cool in almost any armor. :p
I may seem biased, but i've played every tank except a temple knight and can safely say the dark elf offering is the superior tank. Dark Avengers come in a close second but their lack of matk makes their magic lackluster. However, they do have the advantage of looking cool in almost any armor. :p
Well what do most tanker type player pick DA!!!lets face it what do we see more DA's!!!,u know why??Cauz DA's looks great in most heavy Armor,DA tanks real good,DA's PvP's good.And come on a fully buff panther how cool is that.
Only tank that really gives me a run for my money agaisnt my Destro at equal lvl or more.
OK, now, why he tank with hate/hate aura needs hate cubic? Am I missing something? Does it mean enemy will start hitting cubic instead of player? Or will it automaticaly hate anything that player smacks? Sorry I am a bit confused.
ehhh who knows for sure =( but ... it will save us MP that we can Spam on things like Guard Stance rofl
also this is total speculation due to the name and no description "Summon Attarct Cubic : Summons Attarct Cubic"
So it looks like Attract .... I wish it meant somethin cool like Attack-instant kill cubic ^.<
Tk would be FOTM REROLL ROFL
now to that sandwitch search Stun dun dun >,<
I may seem biased, but i've played every tank except a temple knight and can safely say the dark elf offering is the superior tank. Dark Avengers come in a close second but their lack of matk makes their magic lackluster. However, they do have the advantage of looking cool in almost any armor. :p
I have a SK toon myself but I would hardly say they overtake the DA. DAs have double or even tripple the HP of a SK in most cases, and only slightly weaker nukes. furthermore they have a summon, albeit a costly one, that does damage equal to or greater than his own at higher levels, and the sheild stun skill that SKs have to live without.
Both classes are hordcore badasses in PvP. but if I had to put my money on one in a fight, I would bet on the DA every time. unless lightening strike lands 2 or 3 times in the same encounter the SK will realy have a hard time.
DAs give any mellee character more than a run for their money. I play a DPS spec Glad and in a fight with a DA I murder myself in about 15 seconds.
DA with Nightmare Heavy (Sheild Bonus) and Reflect Damage skill = me hitting myself for upwards of 250 damage.
The only hope I have against them is my ranged skill, which hurt pretty bad now in c5 since it has a higher crit rate than my other skills, but even then it is imperative that I ration my MP for continual use... No fight with a DA is an easy one.
I have to disagree with you, Fushigi. While DA does have considerably more HP than an SK, we have quite a bit more power in our nukes. I have multiple magic attack options. When you combine that with my cubics, SK is superior in PvP. In addition, we have higher strength and higher dex. We hit harder and more frequently, and consequently crit a lot more.
DA gets Drain Health., and Shield Stun.
SK Gets Drain Health, Life Leech, Freezing Strike, Lightning Strike, Hex, Power Break, Sting, Poison, and Poison Cloud.
DA gets Dark Panther, a melee summon.
SK gets Phantom Cubic (debuffs), Vampiric Cubic (Drain Health), and Poison Cubic.
Properly equipped, an SK will beat the same level DA after level 61.
Hun?? No Sk never beaten my DA and no Sk never given me a run for my money against my destro like a DA does.
And Da's gets more than shield stun,and drain health,they also have Life scavange,Hamstring,also has a AoE poison Corspe plaque,they have a hold spell Shackles,relect damage,deflect arrows,horror that when it lands can be very usful.
And the Sk has 41 STR while DA got 40,and Sk as 34 in dex while a DA gets 30 so nothing few dyes cant fix but con here we have 11 points in difference for the DA so higher HP's combined wth the Pdef for a tank is good in either PvE or PvP situation.
Plus the panther much more cool lokin summun than just hovering lights and u cant buff cubics they dont take Beats SS for that extra punch they dont even fight so u cant manouver them ,u cant add them to ur PvP stratagies
Maybe a cubic to attract women. The last hope of TKs.
j/k, I love TKs :)
pshhahh ever see a TK in Dark Crystal ??? OMG Sexiest Armor Ever !!! But I roll Tallum Heavy caus I like to solo in FOD ROFL ... less **** and it makes my head look big but nevertheless effective against those nasty BLEED AND POISON MOBS =)
Hun?? No Sk never beaten my DA and no Sk never given me a run for my money against my destro like a DA does.
And Da's gets more than shield stun,and drain health,they also have Life scavange,Hamstring,also has a AoE poison Corspe plaque,they have a hold spell Shackles,relect damage,deflect arrows,horror that when it lands can be very usful.
And the Sk has 41 STR while DA got 40,and Sk as 34 in dex while a DA gets 30 so nothing few dyes cant fix but con here we have 11 points in difference for the DA so higher HP's combined wth the Pdef for a tank is good in either PvE or PvP situation.
Plus the panther much more cool lokin summun than just hovering lights and u cant buff cubics they dont take Beats SS for that extra punch they dont even fight so u cant manouver them ,u cant add them to ur PvP stratagies
So here's ur 2 cents and i raise ya 50 cents lol
Don't get me wrong, I like DA's, but my SK has never been beaten by one. Granted, i've been playing since OB, and most folks around these days haven't.
I do agree that humans have a great setup for tats. They have a lot more points in the "fighter" stats than either race of elves. Which I think is a major weak point in all elf classes.
However, as far as pvp goes, some of those skills you listed don't even work in pvp. You can't life scavange or corpse plague a player (unless they changed that in c5). The panther got nerfed big time for PvP damage and is extremely easy to kill. An SK's cubics are invincible and, at higher levels, attack very frequently which is extremely deadly considering how dangerous the magic the cubics use it.
A DA has good magic skills, but unfortunatly they pay for all those extra "fighter" stat points by having weak "magic" ones. Thus, even though they have the same drain as an SK it does far less damage. Unless of course you want to nuke the stat that deals with resisting debuffs for more matk, which makes you fall prey to skills like hex and powerbreak.
Finally, at 77, SK's get shield bash which, while not a stun per say, does cause their opponent to lose target and interrupts attacks, which can be devastating when used properly.
I hate fighting a destroyer on any melee class though. The more you hurt them, the more they hurt you. T.T
After playing a 75+ Paladin on the test server, I have to say that a paladin is my overall favorite.
Given the new C5 skills and their balanced stats they are bordeline overpowered.
-Undead nukes now actually do something for damage and are mana efficient.
-AoE Root + targetted root + nice self-heals = pretty much unkillable in PvE and make you the king of party tanks. Nobody can save a whole group like a paladin. Remember the power of Sleepcloud? Now a tank can cast something just as powerful, and it also aggroes the tank! Did I mention it casts quickly?
-Root + Stun + UD + Angelic Icon = reactive threat to ANY CLASS as long as the cooldowns are up. I was killing pretty much any class save buffed archer with no trouble whatsoever.
Solo? Paladins solo very well. Find some undead and you solo even faster.
Siege? AoE root can turn the tide of a siege... and most people ignore you.
Unique! Not a lot of Paladins out there despite their power.
Easy to level... you are almost invulnerable in decent gear... recent potion drops help paladins to a massive degree.
AoE roots have reportedly rather sordidly low landing rates, and comparing their power to sleep cloud... well. Need we say archer mobs, nuker mobs, mobs that you are standing right next to?
Find me a sleepcloud where you can have your ranged destroy everything without taking a single lick of damage...
Its more powerful than sleepcloud... sleepcloud came from a low-hp-low defense damage-oriented class. Mass shackle comes from a nearly-invulnerable class that can heal AND UD and its a taunt as well...
All AoE spells have a lowered landing rate... As I remember, you have never even cast sleepcloud ever...
I have to disagree with you, Fushigi. While DA does have considerably more HP than an SK, we have quite a bit more power in our nukes. I have multiple magic attack options. When you combine that with my cubics, SK is superior in PvP. In addition, we have higher strength and higher dex. We hit harder and more frequently, and consequently crit a lot more.
DA gets Drain Health., and Shield Stun.
SK Gets Drain Health, Life Leech, Freezing Strike, Lightning Strike, Hex, Power Break, Sting, Poison, and Poison Cloud.
DA gets Dark Panther, a melee summon.
SK gets Phantom Cubic (debuffs), Vampiric Cubic (Drain Health), and Poison Cubic.
Properly equipped, an SK will beat the same level DA after level 61.
Again, just my 2 cents.
DAs have weaker nukes, yes, but they make up for it in a variety of ways. First, both classes have passive M.Def skills, so neither one will be hitter the other very hard with magic of any type. Freezing strike is less than half as effective as hamstring, and the cubics, while not completely useless, can't even come close to the panther. fighting te panther is litrealy like fighting another character in terms of the damage you will take. And once you kill the panther, he can just summon it again.
Sheild stun is what will realy kll SKs though. They have nothing to even compare to it Pre-77, and that means they (having the lowest Con of any tank) can expect to attack once or perhaps twice between a long serries of chain stuns.
DA hamstrings you, catches you, stuns you, you loose. Freezing strike will not slow him down enough to save you and when he catches you all the atk. spd, and STR in the world won't save you from being chain stunned to death and beaten by the DA and his pet.
the ONLY hope a SK has to fight a DA is lightening strike, and that won't land often through a DA's high M.Def.
SKs are hardcore, and they can beat most classes on the field, (expecially archers :cool:), But DAs are one of the few opponents that savvy SKs should know better than to go up against.
I've beaten a DA two levels higher than me. And he had his panther out. And he didn't "chain stun" me. He landed stun twice in the fight. I landed LS once. Cubics > DA any day of the week. We have not one, but three drains, one of which hits quite frequently, and doesn't take an ounce of effort on our part. We have MDef debuff from our cubics, and while it doesn't say that in the class skills list, go ahead and get hit a couple of times by a Phantom cubic and tell me what all the debuffs do.
DA may be able to stun. SK gets both poison and bleed, more powerful drains, para, and massive debuffs.
P.S. I use a dd build for my SK as well. Tallum Heavy and -3 CON. And the DA only got me to half HP. It's not how much better your skillset is, but rather how well you play. And a well played SK will beat a well played DA due to the insane offensive imbalance that an SK has compared to very similar defensive skillset.
It's not how much better your skillset is, but rather how well you play.
Than you seem to be fighting DAs that are about as PvP effective as brick.
If your argument is that a "well played" SK beats an DA than the inverse must therefore also be true and a "well played" DA would certainly change your mind.
I won't argue further about this as you know your class well enough to have played it to cap, but your words dictate that you have not experienced PvP against other players of significant talent, in as much as DAs at least.
fighting te panther is litrealy like fighting another character in terms of the damage you will take.
DAs can't heal or buff the panther, so it goes down fast and usually stays down, since their summoning speed is atrocious to say the least.
Yes, DAs are nice - but they're not 'better' than SKs by any means. It's an even match between the two, coming down, as you and Blue both say, to player skill.
It's not how much better your skillset is, but rather how well you play.
Than you seem to be fighting DAs that are about as PvP effective as brick.
If your argument is that a "well played" SK beats an DA than the inverse must therefore also be true and a "well played" DA would certainly change your mind.
I won't argue further about this as you know your class well enough to have played it to cap, but your words dictate that you have not experienced PvP against other players of significant talent, in as much as DAs at least.
Actually, I have only PvP'd against one DA. A guy I have massive amounts of respect for because he is great in PvP.
Also, I said that a well-played SK beats a well-played DA. Not that a well-played SK beats a poorly-played DA. SK wins on account of the offensive imbalance of it's class. Player skill determines how well an SK fights. Even a decently played SK will win a lot of fights just due to the offensive imbalance.
Both classes are great in 1v1 situations. Both classes are also great in small to medium PvP situations. DA is better in large scale PvP situations where there is a lot of action on both sides, due to their HP being triple the SK's. In guerilla warfare type PvP, the SK shines, again because they are an imbalanced class.
I have an A Grade SK. I love him to death. He is waaaaaay over powered for his level, and has always been overpowered. I don't lose in 1v1 PvP, but then again, I love 1v1's and small scale PvP. SK is one of the most unbalanced tank classes, we don't lose a lot of defensive skills, we have fewer HP, but we more than make up for that in the number and types of offensive skills.
P.S. to the guy who says that DA's have Corpse Plague, SK gets that as well. Yes, Hamstring is more effective than Freezing Strike, until I magic crit on you. Then you will sing a different tune. Damage + debuff > debuff. SK > Destroyer. Why? Because Lionheart doesn't help you against an SK, and while you may get a new skill that increases your speed, we get too many debuffs. Frenzy is only good for a short period of time. I land Freezing Strike or LS on you, and the game is over. Also, while Rage is plenty nice, it lowers your PDef, just like Hex does, and they stack.
Well ur on crack^^lol =P if u think u can beat a well played lvl to lvl Destro, no Sk ever beaten me on my destro and on my DA for that matter.No Sk ever gotten pass my CP gage,and i've pvped with more than just one.Destro's are tank killer's that's there main job in pvp if u've beaten a same lvl destro,well it's cauz the dude was a noob no offence to the victim =P lol
I know u love ur Sk toon and play him well but we gotta face the facts and not the bias opinion of a dude that love's it' s toon and only fought one DA to compare with ,just sounds to me ur more skilled than the DA u fought agaisnt.With all do respesct=))
But lets stick to facts the numbers of DA's are out there to prove it ,what do we see more on any server as a tank DA's, why cauz there the best out there if tank type player thought the Sk was better then u'd see more dark elf with shield running around ,most DE i see are either nukers,archer's or BD
And if we would be to play the skills of a player vs skills of a toon. well i could well enuf debat that my destro is a good enuf tank class.I played with a budie Pally for about a year and he never managed to get the skills needed to kept aggro on him and with many lvls on me he couldn't.But on paper he's supposed to be the superieur tank class.
You are right, Grumdor. Destroyers are tank killers. Which is why you should be able to kill any DA your level. An SK, however, is a hybrid DD/Tank, not simply a tank.
A Destroyer is much too slow to be able to 1 catch an SK and 2 catch an SK with a bow. Oh, did I mention that a destroyer can't catch an SK?
I'm not so foolish as to fight a Destroyer toe to toe. That would negate all the offensive bonuses I get as an SK. I have a DD build on my SK, as opposed to a tank build, and as such would utilize my ranged attack capabilities when dealing with a Destroyer.
Also, there are only three classes that can hold aggro from me for long periods of time:
Archers with crit build and full buffs.
SPS/Sorc with casting speed builds.
Destroyers using frenzy.
In a fully buffed setting, I have 1k+ Patk and 700+ attack speed. I have hex, hate, and arrest. If there is an archer in party, then I use hate. Anything else, and hex and/or arrest keeps aggro on me without question. Destro with frenzy can pull aggro from me no problems, just like an HE with Snipe and full buffs can.
Also, the DA I pvp'd against was surprised that I was able to beat him. He had a tank build, which meant a lot of HP, but few offensive capabilities. He is a great PvPer, and I have seen him take down many, many toons. SK is an over-powered tank class, IMO, and could certainly use a bit of nerfing. The increase in landing rate of LS from C5 makes them nearly unbeatable against enemies of the same level, provided they use a damage nuker build for it.
That being said, I have a lowbie destroyer (lvl 43) who is a monster in toe to toe combat. No melee class in the game can stand toe to toe with a destroyer. As soon as you add in multiple ranged attacks, the destroyers offensive capabilities are reduced. Especially since C5 meant that bows were not included in Frenzy and Rage bonuses. Yes, you still hit hard with a bow. But shield block rates, 360 degree shield use, guard stance and deflect arrow will reduce your damage output on a destroyer with a bow to nearly nothing.
BTW, have I mentioned that SK's get three drains? People keep forgetting that. Drain Health (same as DA), Life Leech (less damage, more healing) and Vampiric Cubic. Need I remind anyone that a high level SK with cubics out is a monster? You can't stop the cubics. Higher level means they attack more frequently, and for more effect. My poison cubic has a land rate of about 95% on anything within two levels of me, and my Phantom cubic hits about once every three seconds in PvP and lands about 70% of the time.
No melee class in the game can stand toe to toe with a destroyer.
This statement made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :o
As a DPS Gladiator I have lost only once in a fight to a Destro, and he was 9 levels higher than I was at the time.
There are realy only two types of Destros out there, STR spec, and CON spec. I can rip through a STR spec destro withut loosing 1/4 of my CP, but the CON spec destros are the ones to watch out for, they're monoliths...
Ironically enough I have never lost in PvP against an SK... only one SK has ever broken my CP, and I don't even have much CP. (At one point, an SK landed her lightening strike on me and I almost lost becouse of it, but she couldn't do enough damamge to kill me before it faded and I eventually beat her).
I fought one DA... one... and I murdered myself so badly that I have steered away from fighting them ever sinse.
man! i see i have struck a sensitive nerve with many tanks out there. lol. I for one love my DA. The only dificulty is i am having a hard time choosing whether to be a STR. Tank or CON Tank. I am pretty much in the middle right now, i have a doom set but then i have a +4 STR -4Con tat. so im kinda middle of the road. Can u give the pros and cons for each build. i mean which build is good for each playstyle. thanks guys. commence arguing! :)
Basically, if you're a tank, and you're not a DA, you ain't worth a hoot....
DA's are the only real tanks. Everyone else is a pretender.
That's my completely unbiased opinion.
Pally's are usually played by sickly, weak, children.....no one has ever seriously looked at a light elf and thought "tank".....dark elf tanks are close but basically are played by people with self confidence issues.
Only DA's count. All other tanks are wussies.
(completely unbiased opinion)
And the elf (light or dark) tank hasn't been born that can take down the same level DA AND his/her panther. Sorry.
I also have a +4 STR -4Con tat on my DA with Doom....plus a Damascus w/Focus. So I guess I already took the "tanking" part of my DA out...
I guess it only depends on the play style. I mostly play solo....so the real chances of me tanking are quite slim. The only tanking I do is for my kitty....and if it dies I don't get flamed in party chat xD
But if you are always the punching bag of your group then you might as well get a +4CON and an AOBA w/Health SA.....
But the last one I just think is boring and I leave that for palas...
Basically, if you're a tank, and you're not a DA, you ain't worth a hoot....
DA's are the only real tanks. Everyone else is a pretender.
That's my completely unbiased opinion.
Pally's are usually played by sickly, weak, children.....no one has ever seriously looked at a light elf and thought "tank".....dark elf tanks are close but basically are played by people with self confidence issues.
Only DA's count. All other tanks are wussies.
(completely unbiased opinion)
And the elf (light or dark) tank hasn't been born that can take down the same level DA AND his/her panther. Sorry.
See what happens when you don't take your medications?
P.S. Panther dies quickly in PvP if the opponent even thinks about attacking it. With C5 came the nerf of summons in PvP, like 75% less damage. A panther to me is just a tiny gnat waiting to be squashed.
I prefer my SK to a DA. I have beaten a DA two levels (and a skillset) higher than me in PvP. I have seen both DA's and SK's destroy opponents if they are played well. I have also seen both classes fail horribly by players who have no business playing either one. My preference is towards more options in battle, rather than the ability to simply take a lot of damage while doing meager amounts of damage.
If reference to the question of a tank build vs. a DD build.
++ CON, Doom Heavy/NM/DC and a health weapon on a DA makes them formidable opponents because they will have a gamillion HP. They tend to take forever to kill anything, however, so if this fits your playstyle, then by all means do so. This setup holds roughly the same benefits for Paladins and TK's. The SK on the other hand is hampered because they have low HP to begin with, and thus the increase in HP decreases their damage dealing skills.
++DEX/STR, BW Heavy/Tallum/Majestic/Avadon/Zubei and a focus or haste weapon on a DA can work to offset the lower attack capabilities of the class. This type of setup does not work well on TK's because they have no attack skills worth mentioning, and is inefficient on Paladins, because they get a better bonus from DC. SK on the other hand, benefits enormously from this type of setup. I would suggest increasing DEX before increasing STR. DEX will allow you to hit faster, have a higher run speed, and crit much more frequently. And remember, a little goes a long way. You don't have to go with +4 DEx/-4 CON, a simple +2 DEX/-2Con will suffice to increase your stats about 5% or so.
My experience is that, unless you are raiding high end bosses, a DD build will out perform a tank build in most cases. At least with DA/SK. Pally and TK are something I am not 100% familiar with, although I see them all using tank builds instead of dd builds.
My experience is that, unless you are raiding high end bosses, a DD build will out perform a tank build in most cases. At least with DA/SK. Pally and TK are something I am not 100% familiar with, although I see them all using tank builds instead of dd builds.
I do not have that have any experience in high end content but from what i have seen and from what i do feel when playing my soon to be TK is that gooing a DD build is pretty useless since all it makes you turn out to be in the end is a mediocre everything. By gooing for a tank build you play on the strengths you got and use them to your advantage instead.
Basically, if you're a tank, and you're not a DA, you ain't worth a hoot....
DA's are the only real tanks. Everyone else is a pretender.
That's my completely unbiased opinion.
Pally's are usually played by sickly, weak, children.....no one has ever seriously looked at a light elf and thought "tank".....dark elf tanks are close but basically are played by people with self confidence issues.
Only DA's count. All other tanks are wussies.
(completely unbiased opinion)
And the elf (light or dark) tank hasn't been born that can take down the same level DA AND his/her panther. Sorry.
lol... that is some unbiased oppinion there, mate.
Honestly most Tanks have completely different things to offer.
DA is most comonly received as the top PvP tank, given their increadable balance of offensive skills and survivability.
Paladins are among the best RB Tanks, due mostly to their self heals (and other heals), as well as undead benefits for tanking undead RBs.
TKs are literaly an incomplete class atm, NCSoft has promised TKs their final cubic, amongst other things, in the upcomming update. Until then, they remain a steady PvE tank, but fall shy of the SK.
SKs are the undisputed kings of PvE tanking. They have next to no HP compared to the other tanks, but most mobs have little M.Def and their drains compenstate for that time and again. SKs are also the only class I can think of that performs similarly when buffed and unbuffed... they are very easy to solo, and do so better than any other class.
Yeah, call me uselss because Im a paladin? Sheesh. Hardly call that unbiased. I have no need to change how I play. Undead mobs, Cata groups, & RBs and I am happy all the way to lvl 78+
C'mon people! My post was supposed to be light-hearted!!!!!
"my completely unbiased opinion"!!!???
Jeeeesh--what a literal group!
Since NO ONE has a sense of humor anymore (seriously? you thought the comments including those saying pally's were played by children and elves were 'wussies' were serious comments?????), the facts are that the tank classes all do a couple of things differently.
And yes, Maline has convinced me that the so-called 'dd' build will leave you as an effective tank as well.
Lighten up, people!!!! You folks to need to laugh a bit!
Well in my opinion i luv the Paladin Tank and espiecally since c5 they have come a very long way in pvp and pve if u look at the skills they possess they are pretty ruthless and i think 1v1 can beat a DA tank
SK WITH NUKER SETUP BEATS ALL MELLE, AND ALL ARCHERS. THATS JUST THE WAY IT IS. BEST TANK CLASS IN THE GAME, TY AND GN.SORRY FOR CAPS MY KEYBOARD IS BROKEN =/.
LoL u buying ur crack from Blue6 lol(just kiddin)Trust me dude there,s not way in hell and equal lvl Sk no matter what the build can beat a Destro with doom crusher,tell me how u gonna use all those nice offensive spells if ur stuned,how u gonna use ur speed onces ur stuned,and when ur gonna be stuned ur mine^^and if ur not mine by then trust me ,zealot+frenzy+rage=7000 P.Atk or so then ur sure to be mine.NO Sk EVER passed my Cp bar and i PvP everyday in and out of the arena.
Here's how in IMO i see the ranking of tanks:
Da;Best overall Tank good tanker,good PvP tanker
Sk:Good tanker,Offensive spells make him good in PvP
Pally:Very good tanker specially in raid party's moderate in PvP
Destro:Moderate tanker lacks aggro skills,IMO(maybe bias here ^^LOL)best PvP meleer
Tk:moderate tank good enuf for party's,moderated PvPer sadly a way over looked class from Nc
What elevates a DA above a Paladin? Oh right... nothing.
As a tank there is no way a DA can compete with a paladin, as a character it's argueable (although I still say paladins are cooler).
As a party tank in a VR party, the SK outshines the DA by a margin (most DAs refuse to use the kitty in party anyway), and the TK does fine for raids, is superior for AoE and does well enough in a party.
It's just a shame that there's so little else they can do.
I agree Maline, it's a shame TK's can't do much else right now. Hope NC fixes it for Interlude tho.
LoL u buying ur crack from Blue6 lol(just kiddin)Trust me dude there,s not way in hell and equal lvl Sk no matter what the build can beat a Destro with doom crusher,tell me how u gonna use all those nice offensive spells if ur stuned,how u gonna use ur speed onces ur stuned,and when ur gonna be stuned ur mine^^and if ur not mine by then trust me ,zealot+frenzy+rage=7000 P.Atk or so then ur sure to be mine.NO Sk EVER passed my Cp bar and i PvP everyday in and out of the arena.
Obviously playing an Orc suits you. Do you not understand what I mean when I say: A Destroyer can't catch an SK.
How on god's green earth are you going to stun me, if I keep you at range the entire time? Oh, that's right, you can't. My magic > your stun. All the SK's you have been "PvPing" against are nubs if they think there is any way possible for an SK to go toe to toe with a Destroyer. Oh wait, there isn't a class in the game that can do that.
Destroyer is great at it's one job: toe to toe melee. Anything else, they suck at.
you lost your ability to mass kill things when NC took away Frenzy and Rage from bows. now, you are exactly what you are supposed to be, feared in toe to toe melee. Nothing else. I have multiple nukes to hit you with, I have slow, I have drains, I have para. All you have is frenxy and rage that you can't use until you are at 30% HP. I'm sorry, last time I checked, a Destro with 12k HP at 76, has only 4k HP. And when you're poisoned, and being bombarded by nukes, you don't stand much chance.
I must say that I love my DA, I'm not saying that she's the bad @ss ****** that she is, but.. when I'm group with my clannie, I do my best to hold my grounds, and though my Clannie has a TK, and a PK and a Paladin I must say when it comes to def DA's kick but, when it comes to Melee it's given to the SK, and support goes to the TK.. but Paladins I must give props for having awesome def when it comes to mad mobs.. but like I said I enjoy my DA and when I solo with her she's a pretty tough chick.
I'll say it and say it again WHAT DO WE SEE MORE as tanks DA's!! for heaven sakes So they got to have sumthing more speciale dans any other Tank class.We cant all be nubs that made a mistake in tank selection.So no matter what we think about who's best r not the numbers on ALL server r there to prove it.
P.S. Zealot will get in me range to ya Blue6 ^^and all i really need is one or 2 stun to land to do my deed=)Poison good luck landing that on a Orc wth Tallum set.And even if i dont get the job done on Frenzy+rage combo,i still have guts that gives me about as much P.Def as Sk give or take a few and add Battle roar to the mix and we got a hole new ball game.Hmm altho it's gonna be a short 1 cauz u'll probably spent ur self just trying to lower tha mass of Hp an Orc as O les not forget 25% Hp bonus from health.
And the true job of a Destro is to kill tanks it's 1 of the rare class that got enuf, P.Def+P.Atk+Hp to conter ur moderate spells(lets face it tank r no nukers) and Massive P.Def.Its not like it's gonna be glady's,BD,SWS,Tryant's will be able to do an Sk in or a DA for that matter.
Anyways to bad we're not on the same server we could of duke it out try to prouve each other wrong lol^^But i like ya u debat ,u argue but u kept it clean respect for that =))
Okay, first things first, no one making any posts on this thread thus far has access t othe actual number on what there are more or less of class wise on any server. Some of you may see more of one, but that doesn't mean there are more of them.
Second, NCSoft has, despite the common sentiment, done a decent job balancing the classes (with the exclusion of a few *PR, AW, TK, WS, BH*) the other 27 classes are balanced enough that no one is a better class than the other.
Anyone who says SK < or > than any other class is delusional. The same applies to anyone who says Destro < or > than other classes.
Ironically enough, most people in the game play different classes, and we fight all types of classes. And guess what? we win some and we loose some. As a Glad I have lost once in pvp... ever... and that doesn't mean that my class is better han any other class... it doesn't mean that my class is wrose than the 1 lucky *** who beat me... it means I know how to play my class... and I am not the only one...
before more posts are made saying baseless things like "SK is best or DA is best" think about the idiodic nature of that statement before you post it on a forum attatched to your name for everyone to see...
the other 27 classes are balanced enough that no one is a better class than the other.
Oh let's have a look at this... is a SwS en par with a BD? Is an SE en par with other support classes? A prophet with a WC? Sorry, but you're delusional if you think this.
Yes, some classes are internally well balanced (summoners). Few class groups are exterenally well balanced (duelist types seem to be avoid of stupid degrees of overpoweredness while not being gimp either).
Sorry, but how you could get as far as 6x without noticing the balance issues is just ... wow.
SKs and DAs both have inherent advantages and disadvantages in their classes, which do make them better or worse in certain situations. You can never pass an overall judgement of course (they're both [censored] buffers :p ), but that is not what people are trying to do.
I have to disagree... SwS are very much capable of contending with BDs... BDs are not PvP classes in and of themselves... they are a support class either way, and the SwS, while opperating on the same principle, stacks up far better than you seem to think. I find it hard to beleive that a BD can do much damage through the SwS's increaced P.Def and the fact that most savvy SwS use a Shield (which block often enough regardless of mastery).
Contrastingly, the SwS would shine less when pitted against various other classes that the BD may fair better against.
Any way you slice it, a class that plays into its existing skill set can beat nearly any other class... the classes I exluded in my previous post were so exluded becouse they lack the performance of many other classes.
This is simply my 2 cents... making silly statements like "how you played to 60+ without..." is juvenile... I am not trying to proove anything with my posts, just state my opinion... if your oppinion differs, try and be mature about it, saying why it differs, or offering a counter-statement...
Saying "you're wrong you noob, and I am soo cool 'cuz I know more than you" by implying that I know nothiung makes you seem like not just an ***, but a bit of a noob yourself.
before more posts are made saying baseless things like "SK is best or DA is best" think about the idiodic nature of that statement before you post it on a forum attatched to your name for everyone to see...
This is simply my 2 cents... making silly statements like "how you played to 60+ without..." is juvenile... I am not trying to proove anything with my posts, just state my opinion... if your oppinion differs, try and be mature about it, saying why it differs, or offering a counter-statement...
Saying "you're wrong you noob, and I am soo cool 'cuz I know more than you" by implying that I know nothiung makes you seem like not just an ***, but a bit of a noob yourself.
Im sorry Fushigi but it doesn't sound like ur stating ur opinion,it's sound more like ur being jugemental about ours.Whats been said so far is acounts on what ppl think is best as tanker class(wth a bit of side tracking)from what they've exprience in there game time or from personnal knowledge of a tanker class,so how's ppl gonna get real based data and actual facts u tell me,but what we can do is offer our opinion and personnal knowledge and experience.Before u came along nobody said thing like idiodic,or discretited ppl opinion by saying there ur making baseless statements(im sorry but many months or even years of observation in a game as a X type class don't seem baseles to me)and nobody said ur a noob for saying such and such.Most kept it clean and humourus.
And from what i've seen of ur posts, u ur self are not offering much based statements or counter-arguements on whats a good tanker class should be ,the only arguement about class ur doing has nothing to do with the subject at hand, that is whats the best tanker class ,as for the other they went with there expirience and personnal knowledge of said class(wth a bit of root for the home team hatitude ^^).
So what would of been the MATURE thing to do is to let the orginal poster make up is own opinion about what was stated from what was exposed from ppl expirience of a class they actually played let him be the juged of what seemed credible.
So thank you for side tracking more the subject,O! try not to take it personnal it is just my OPINION.
now plz back to the subject ,altho by now he probably made up is mind of what tank he sould play ^^lol.
The fact that you seem to think that the only way to compare them would be a direct 1v1 match says a lot...
This game is not usually about 1v1 matches. Even among 1v1 matches, there is a whole slew of various rules that can tip the scals in favour of one class or another.
You can call me juvenile if you will, but you're trying to pass on a whole lot of reasonable discussion with 'there's no such thing' when in fact, yes, there is such a thing as a tank that outperforms another based on class given equal gear and player skill in a given situation. You're trying to end this discussion by claiming balance - which might exist, if you squeeze your eyes tight so shut you can barely see most of the game.