Dagger debate. Need help

I was just arguing with a friend about which dagger is better for C grade.

The nature of the argument is greater DPS overtime.

I say, DS + Focus
He insists on CD + CD

Question to you guys is as TH, which dagger is better, assuming the above daggers and sa's, and both at +3, + OOP SE and Prophet

Critical Damage...you already crit a lot with your buffs, so take the extra damage.

It should also balance mobs with resist dagger...massive crits and you won't notice it much too.

I would tend to agree with your friend, if your setup remains as you stated (oop buffers). High critcal classes dont really need a focus weapon when fully buffed, since you'll crit alot with just the buffs alone as Orv already said.

If your not always gonna have a buffer available, then go with the focus.

Let's count DPS in parrots for TH lvl 41 with prophet/SE of 56+ lvl buffs.
Let's say you are using +4STR build and wear Teca.

A) Dark Screamer +3: Weapon.PAtk = 122 + 9 = 131
* + 81 Critical
B) Crystal Dager +3: Weapon.PAtk = 136 + 9 = 145
* +140 PAtk on critical

P.Atk. = Weapon.PAtk.*Level.bonus*STR.bonus*Mastery Modifier*Buffs.bonus + Weapon Mastery

Level.bonus = 1+(41-11)/100=1.3

STR Modifier(44) = 1.38
Mastery Modifier = 1.085

Buffs bonuses:
* Berserker Spirit 2: 1.08
* Might 3: 1.15
Total Buff bonus = 1.08*1.15=1.242

Weapon Mastery = 4.0 + 23.4 = 27.4

So regular PAtk for your character will be as follows:
Dark Screamer.Patk = 131*1.3*1.38*1.085*1.242 + 27.4 = 344
Crystal Dagger.Patk = 145*1.3*1.38*1.085*1.242 + 27.4 = 377

Now we come to critical probability.

Critical = Weapon.Base*Dex.bonus*(1+Critical.Chance.bonus+Buf f.bonus) + SA.bonus

Weapon.Base = 120
Dex.bonus (30 DEX) = 1.10
Critical Chance 2 bonus = 0.3
Buff bonus = 0.3

Dark Screamer SA.bonus = 81

So regular Critical stat for your character will be as follows:
Dark Screame.Critical = 120*1.1*(1+0.3+0.3) + 81 = 292 = 29,2%
Crystal Dagger.Critical = 120*1.1*(1+0.3+0.3) = 211 = 21,1%

Attack speed = Weapon.Base*DEX.bonus*Passives*Buffs*

Weapon Base Attack Speed = 379
DEX.bonus = 1.1
Boost Attack Speed 2 bonus = 1.07
Buffs bonus = Haste 2 bonus * Berserker Spirit 2 bonus = 1.33 * 1.08 = 1.436

So regular attack speed for your character will be as follows:
Attack speed = 379*1.1*1.07*1.436 = 640

Critical PAtk = PAtk * 2 * Crit.buff + Crit.passives + SA.bonus

Death Wisper 3 bonus = 1.5
Critical power 3 bonus = 90

So regular Critical Patk for your character will be as follows:
Dark Screamer = 344*2*1.5 + 90 = 1122
Crystal Dagger = 377*2*1.5 + 90 + 140 = 1361


DPS = Atk.speed*(PAtk*(1-Crit.probability) + PAtk.Critical*Crit.probability)

So regular damage potential for your character will be as follows:
Dark Screamer = 640 * (344*(1-0.292) + 1122*0.292) = 365`552,64
Crystal Dagger = 640 * (377*(1-0.211) + 1361*0.211) = 374`159,36

Actual damage is dependant on your target PDef, so it's not calculated. The only thing matter here - damage is proportional to damage potential.

So Crystal Dagger SA Critical Damage is 2% more effective in your case.

NB: In case you'd have BD with Dance of Fire in party, Dark Screamer Sa Focus would be 2,5% more effective

heres my opinion.....
crystal daggers are more powerful and a better choice(only because they have a higher Patk)...however they are much more expensive. What I would do is this. Go to the lux shop in Giran and buy 2 DS's (price of crystals is equals about 6.6mil each dagger) then buy a bunch of EWC's....go one for one on the dagger (BEFORE ADDING FOCUS!) until one breaks. If you get really lucky and have one +5 and one +6 then stop there and sell the +5. Now you have a weapon which is more powerful than a CD and has focus (which is a way better function than crit damage in my opinion). Another option is just buy one DS and try to go +5...if it breaks buy a new one and go +3...it its successful stop there and you just got yourself a weapon which is alot better than a +3CD w/ CD and for a way cheaper price.

Crap...after rereading your post i guess i kinda got carried away off-topic :o...but bearing in mind what i said....DS is the way to go cuz its cheaper. :D

Dark screamer.

Crit power does not make for higher DPS - not only are you not fully buffed (you only have focus 3), crit power ignores SS (whee) and mostly increases stab damage.

To see the damage improvmeent, toggle VS on - that's about how much the CD will add.

Plus, DSs carry overenchantments well - CDs do not benefit from them nearly as much.

Dark screamer.

Agreed

Plus, DSs carry overenchantments well - CDs do not benefit from them nearly as much.

If you mean that DS's are easier to OE than a CD, not true. No less and no more difficult to OE than any other weapon.

But if you mean it's more profitable to OE a DS as opposed to a CD, I agree.

And if you mean an OE focus DS benefits more in terms of damage than an OE CD, I agree with that too. :)

I have always chosen focus over CD. The extra damage added by the CD SA does not equal the extra damage by more frequent crits from what I've seen. Of course, my adventurer is generally xping with full prophet buffs, dances and usually POF or COV. But regardless, I'd rather crit more often, than crit harder.

Besides with the money you save using a DS instead of a CD (original purchase expense plus the diff in # CSS per hit) you can buy enchants for it, maybe even successfully OE :)

hmm..

I used CD in Cgrade, Focus in Bgrade, and yet again CD in Agrade.
I WOULD use Focus if the daggers had the same p.attack, but, all CD daggers have slightly higher p.attack, thats why I use it. and its more funny, and good for pvp. focus may be a more steady dps in the long run, but well... normaly its focus > all in pve.

At A grade, I'll probably craft a Bloody Orchid. But I actually like the Soul Separater more. Maybe I'll just craft them both.

Yes SinParabals, the only way to improve overenchantment chances is to hit the scroll at exactly sixteen frames into the /socialwaiting animation of a female dwarf while standing in a scorching brazier in Schuttgart - I know weapon types have no influence on it. ;)

Anyway, yes, CD is certainly better for PvP - unless it's long PvP where you run out of MP and then have to rely on swings anyway. For quick ganks, CD all the way. :D

Yes SinParabals, the only way to improve overenchantment chances is to hit the scroll at exactly sixteen frames into the /socialwaiting animation of a female dwarf while standing in a scorching brazier in Schuttgart...

Hey! Don't give away all of my enchanting secrets. [Does 3 cart wheels counter clockwise before clicking on the EWA.]

:D :D :D