I really can't chose, I love being able to summon stuff but at the same time be able to cast some niffty spells :confused:. I know some of you might say go a necromancer, But that doesnt seem to appel to me as much as a SS or ES. So could anyone give me afew Highs and Lows of each of them to help me deside?
Thanks in advance. :D
Elemental summoners are fun and incredibly versatile - they provide valueable buffs, can do some damage (it's not as good as a 'real' DD though), can tank in groups, can do excellent non-strain healing, can AoE on their own...
SpS are high burst damage classes, meaning they can do a lot of damage for maybe ten seconds and then wonder where all their MP got to. Their major selling points in levelling (AoE and crowd control) as well as PvP (cancel) have been hit, but they can still be pretty vicious - it seems to depend on the server a bit, on some servers, people buff up against nukers, on others they don't.
In either case, they gain a pretty **** big hand up in the next update, so it's sort of up in the air what will happen next.
I personally loved my ES to pieces, and I'd still be playing her if she wasn't stuck on a server that went to [censored]. =)
Well.. I am pretty sorry I went spellsinger at this point.
Before C5, spellsingers were manaless wonders...
We did a lot of damage in a hurry, but we made up for it in control and short term power.
Now spellsingers are always out of mana AND offer nothing to a party save pretty effects.
With sleep and sleeping cloud becoming dead spells, Spellsingers are left with only the damage role.
Since daggers and archers are so good at and so durable at that spellsingers are more comparable to tank-longterm-DPS than damage-dealer-longterm-DPS.
Result?
If you are asking about NOW?
Roll Elemental Summoner.
I'm a Warlock and used to be a SPS (check sig). You will have alot of fun on the ES. I have one my clan, a PS as well. We have a great time. I don't know if I agree with a previous poster in this thread on our damage though. I think we should be classified as DD's. When I am fighting, I have my summons hitting the mob as well as myself. I can see that I'm doing fair damage on my own, I imagine that my summons is doing a hell of alot more! Consider that my patk is somewhere around 300 something and My summons, fully buffed (which he normaly is) has a patk of just over 1200!
Summoners are an absolute blast to play! Please, go ES and...........Enjoy!
While I agree with ES being quite good, I should explain why I do not classify Sps as DD's anymore.
Long-term damage actually turns out lower than the tanks over periods longer than 30 minutes of grinding unless the Sps has a dedicated recharger.
Sps deal decent burst damage, but cannot compare to archers critting 50% of the time for massive chunks of damage. Worse is the fact that archers spend tiny amounts of mana and mages spend huge chunks and even with the recharge bonus are a bad place to put a recharge.
Recharge for recharge, a single recharger can keep two archers in mana and each archer will do 4-6 times the damage per recharge that the mage can put out.
Granted the mage can spit out the mana faster... and should be able to out-burst the archer... but not by much.
If the recharger is also serving as a healer, the sps can and will run them dry where an archer will not AND will deal more damage over longer periods of time.
Sps without recharger support have such horrible mana regen and such quick burn that their overall damage output will be LESS than the tank. (yes, even a TK)
In short, the sps REQUIRES an additional dedicated recharger to be even worth the party slot.
Unless you have rechargers in excess, you are better off taking any class besides sps...
In parties right now, I nuke for 2500ish until I am out of mana then if we have sufficient healing, I melee.
I melee much more often than I can nuke in any party that does not have a dedicated recharger. (I maintain a certain mana reserve to burn something down if necessary.)
My melee with 17str is horrid... but doing so adds a significant chunk to my longterm damage because of Sps' horrible mana efficiency and terrible mana regen.
And yes, I use our adena inefficient and nearly worthless mana regen spell as often as possible so as to give my party members the most I can... I am TRYING to not be a burden... but I know quite well they woudl be better off with nearly any other class in almost every situation.
That hurts a lot.
I can deal without sleep... now fix my mana regen/efficiency or make my spellbook full of pointless spells worth something please.
Ok. thanks for that. But a i have afew quetions about ES an that is that the summons take part of your exp, And i was wondering if that affects the leveling speed with them? and also all the crystals that are used, Are they hard to come by? Also whats happening to SpS in the next Patch? They getting buffed?
Thanks again.
You kill faster with your servitor out, so the 5-10% they take is worth it. The crystals are D and C. Not hard to come by at all. Giran seems to be full of them most the time. I dont know the answers to your last 2 questions.
Of the pve summons, Boxer takes 30% (uses D crystals), merrow takes 10% (c crystals) and Seraphim -the buffer pony- I think 5% or 10%? I dont have it yet :p
I'm having tons of fun on my ES ^^ I'd cancel my WC sub for an ES if I could. **** race restrictions ;_;
Seraphim is 5%. I havent used boxer since I passed 40. Merrow does the trick nicely. I havent really decided if aqua cubic is worth the cost yet. Im guessing in a raid situation using mass summon would help alot. But havent got to try that out yet.
I just started one last weekend. Well, okay, he's only level 20 now... :confused:
You will enjoy it im sure. Its by far the most fun class I have played. Maybe for me its just paying more attention now. Use to just point,click,kill,point,click. Now I have to keep track of my summon and his hp and what not now. Last night I was out grinding and before I knew it i leveled. Just wasnt watching the xp bar move. Unicorns are a distraction. :p
ES stands out from all other summoners cuz they aoe solo so well. Summon tanks,aoe nukes, and you can heal / recharge. And buff summon could be very nice in main tank group full of healers in a raid.
Sps have nothing special about them that stands out. SH still rules nuking classes.
The Seraphim is nice in any group that uses MP - although not as nice as the Queen if that group is an archer or dagger group.
SHs don't 'still' rule nuking classes - that would have required them to start ruling more than one chronicle ago.
SpS or Sorcs were never big DDs outside of burst damage to begin with - for that, they still do nicely enough. Plus, as pointed out, they're getting a huge hand up in Interlude as far as DDing over prolonged periods of time is concerned.
I just started one last weekend. Well, okay, he's only level 20 now... :confused:
You will enjoy it im sure. Its by far the most fun class I have played. Maybe for me its just paying more attention now. Use to just point,click,kill,point,click. Now I have to keep track of my summon and his hp and what not now. Last night I was out grinding and before I knew it i leveled. Just wasnt watching the xp bar move. Unicorns are a distraction. :p
Why do you think I play 3 toons at once most of the time. :p
I play two toons at once since I switched servers away from my summoner - I miss not having to tab between two windows to control two 'units', but it's still cool with multiple characters.
I'm looking forward to necromancer AoE, it should be almost as good as ES AoE. :D
I play Mielle and Laeska together just fine (Laeska is not much more inactive than any live healer coming with me), and I'm confident that if I could actually run a third client on a secon dmachine, I'd have no problem playing a second ES to match. :p
I play Mielle and Laeska together just fine (Laeska is not much more inactive than any live healer coming with me), and I'm confident that if I could actually run a third client on a secon dmachine, I'd have no problem playing a second ES to match. :p
It's all a matter of practice and routine.
Ok your disqualified from this contest! :) I thought about boxing something off my wifes account she hardly uses. Then I realized I would spend alot of time dead.
ES and SpS are both good, don't harp on the SpS so badly lol.
Of all the nukers SpS turned out much much better with the sleep nerfs due to their speed. I still use Sleep Cloud in groups and it works excellent.. I SWEAR the land rate was increased. Of course, I do have Dark Crystal set and Acumen SA as well as +4 WIT. You would not want to use sleep in a solo setting anymore though and nor should you really have to. Nukers should solo on 2-shot mobs for maximum mp and especially as an SpS you shouldn't have to waste mp sleeping things, they should die fast enough.
SpS is more of a duo and pvp class. In groups you have to watch your mp, but really any nuker should be doing that. You should not be constantly casting and running out of mp.. what if there was an emergency? You'd just sit there looking pretty while your party died? >< In PvP they're still amazing. You dish out the damage like mad and can kill someone before they even know you're there. More crits too and more casts in is more chance of crit or interrupt.
In terms of raid bosses... SpS are not very good at all anymore. With the combination of mp usage and doing such little damage to the raid, you're better off having archer teams than mage teams since C5 anyway.
But ES seem like a very neat (although expensive...) PvE class, especially if you like the support role as oppose to an intimate duo that an SpS usually does. ES actually is an awesome trio partner for an SpS. <3Seraphim buffs.
All in all it's a personal preference. I will never ever regret going Spellsinger as summons are just not my thing and I love my SpS to death. So much that I'm just gonna try straight for 78 instead of sub. =)
Well I have no idea how to play one, which is the main reason I picked this class this time. So, if anyone sees a LE dude cussing at a unicorn that is just running around chasing butterflies, that will probably be me.
lol man that could be your or me really. Last night I almost killed the unicorn. It got put to sleep so I just went to give a little smack in the head to wake it up and aqua cubic fired on it to. I have alot of stories that start with "last night" Next time ill tell the one about how I forgot merrows nuke was aoe. ;)
lol man that could be your or me really. Last night I almost killed the unicorn. It got put to sleep so I just went to give a little smack in the head to wake it up and aqua cubic fired on it to. I have alot of stories that start with "last night" Next time ill tell the one about how I forgot merrows nuke was aoe. ;)
...and you woke up everything that someone else had slept right?.....lol
This past weekend I was out in a party and my son was on the BD. We were in DN, anyway he got slept and no one had brought waking scrolls with them, I gave him a whack and woke him up. A few seconds later he is yelling "wth? I woke up and I'm para'd!" I completely forgot that I had my binding cubic up. hehe, One hit, one para! The bishop was laughing so hard he almost forgot to purify him! I preach and preach, "Don't flag on people with the cubics up!", then I turn around and do it my own self!
Wasn't as funny though when I started getting hit from behind, as my son started tossing various items off his desk at me from across the room!
:D :D :D
SpS or Sorcs were never big DDs outside of burst damage to begin with - for that, they still do nicely enough. Plus, as pointed out, they're getting a huge hand up in Interlude as far as DDing over prolonged periods of time is concerned.
Ok, I'll bite...
What exactly is being done about the mana issue?
I am not doubting... just wondering about the current rumormill...
It got put to sleep so I just went to give a little smack in the head to wake it up
Speaking of waking someone. We were on TOI and an AW got slept. Before I was able to scroll him awake, our PR and SR both shot him with a "love tap" to wake him. He lost all of his CP and a fair chunk of HP with those two hits... I was laughing too hard to be much use for a while after that.
...and you woke up everything that someone else had slept right?.....lol
Fortunatly I was solo at the time. What happened was I was fighting non social mobs. Ran up into a bunch of about 6 and thought it would be cool to nuke the one i was attacking. Merrow made it out alive. Cant say the same for myself. ;)
...and you woke up everything that someone else had slept right?.....lol
Fortunatly I was solo at the time. What happened was I was fighting non social mobs. Ran up into a bunch of about 6 and thought it would be cool to nuke the one i was attacking. Merrow made it out alive. Cant say the same for myself. ;)
This starts working at around 48, and I know it works at least up to the low 6xs - after that, I don't know anyone who's done it.
Basically with your available support, the prophet and BD are best (Emp 3 you get yourself at 52 or 56, and recharges are nice but not worth the extra MP that not having acumen will wind up costing you).
Buy a robe (Karmian, Blue Wolf) and an acumen or mana up weapon (it need not be good, two shot consumption preferred) - that's a matter of taste, I've been doing this without SA actually.
Dance Concentration and Mystic, buff acumen/zerk/windwalk/shield for the pony and yourself. If you're squeamish, don't zerk yourself - but do zerk the pony. Use bright servitor.
Target, in order of priority, the aggro group leader if it's closest to you (<- there isn't one like this at first) of a group or the most central mob of the group, then send the merrow in to nuke. Let it kite back to you (leave some room), and then gently tap the nuke key again hoping it's ready - some practice will be needed to get a feeling for the reset time. If you jam the nuke button, the merrow will stop in its tracks and take a lot of damage it shouldn't have.
Melee down possible survivors.
You might die a few times at first, but once you have the hang of it, this is stupid exp. :)
ES and SpS are both good, don't harp on the SpS so badly lol.
Of all the nukers SpS turned out much much better with the sleep nerfs due to their speed. I still use Sleep Cloud in groups and it works excellent..
I disagree... my party is easily handling most of the targets that would be affected before I get in range and finish casting. Worst is that a paladin can completely control all of them (including the few that resist him with single-target root/taunts) before I can come close to landing sleepcloud.
I have 1313 cast speed reasonably buffed...
Sleep/Sleepingcloud is slow as molasses in January and lands at it usual AoE reduced rate.
Granted, I am used to parties which think anything under 10 deep red mobs in combat is boring (Our healer starts falling asleep and then goes and pulls to relieve boredom.)
I hate the current sleepcloud so much that I would prefer they remove it entirely and give me back my SP...
I removed both Sleeping Cloud and Sleep from my main toolbars permanently.
I haven't found a use for either of them since shortly after C5.
I can get myself into the back of Saints Necropolis to my party and sleep all the mobs on me with sleep cloud. Like I mentioned before, it also works well for the parties themselves so I love it. Then again I am 73 so I dunno if this makes a difference. I also tend to party with a TK but it's not hitting her for long before I sleep it even then.
Personal perference. You can like what you like. I'm just offering the perspective that some still do the skills, me of one. Personally I hate the people that simply whine about the nerf and fail to adapt their playstyle or get used to it.
Edit: To clarify, I am not doubting that the skill was nicer when it is faster (that would be ridiculus). However I am saying that the skill still works. It may work differently (sloooow), but it indeed works and can be put to use.
It's simply not a no-fail 'get out of trouble NOW' card anymore.
It is now more en par with the other AoE crowd control skills (Serenade of Eva, Word of Fear, AoE stun from WL, whatever that's called), as it should have been in the first place.
But some people just can't adapt at doing a job only as well as all the other people who are supposed to be better at it, not infinitely-out-of-compeititon better.
Thalenduros will probably say something about the level differences now, and how it 'just doesn't work like that' at 75+ anymore as far as the landing rate goes, too... since getting the skill to +4 to keep it working is too much to ask.
Sleeping cloud never was no-fail before...
Like any AoE spell, it has a lowered land rate...
(inexperience again maline...)
Powerful? Sure.... but less so than AoE root is now...
And it was cast by one of the squishiest characters in the game. I died many times saving my party... but I was valued for that very reason.
Paladins not only root but TAUNT in the same spell. The rooted mobs are focused on one of the most sturdy characters in the game and the melee have no defense against repeated ranged attacks. (sleep breaks on damage)
Sleeping cloud always had a cooldown, but I could see reasonable arguement for slowing the spell a little and having a longer cooldown. Slowing to 15 second base cast time is simply rediculous.
As it stands, NOTHING has been nerfed as badly as Sleeping Cloud ever... and worse, they put in more powerful AoE control on classes which are more durable which have nearly instant cast times...
That being said... I have adapted.
I don't use useless skills... I find other ways...
If you insist on using spells that are a waste of your mana overall, then go right ahead. Not everyone studies the effect of the character as I do... some people are happy with pretty colors and flashy shiny things...
This doesn't change the fact that Spellsingers are currently massively limited by mana problems and since other classes are better at control, they are no longer grouped for that either.
I have been playing this class since Prelude... and not once have I had this much trouble justifying my existence in a group.
Sleeping cloud is dead... so be it...
What are Spellsingers supposed to offer to a group?
It isn't damage... the tank will be doing more damage than the spellsinger in the long run due to mana issues...
(It doesn't matter whether you space it out or nuke yourself out of mana... due to the limiting reagent (mana) there is only so much damage in so much time that any spellsinger can put out period...)
They managed to find a hppy medium for cancel...
Why did they need to completely destroy nearly every other spell in my spellbook?
Thalenduros, to clarify my sentence about people failing to adapt was not about you but about people who do whine. I did not see you whining persay, you were just giving your outlook on sleep cloud as I gave mine.
You did however offend me with this following statement:
I don't use useless skills... I find other ways...
If you insist on using spells that are a waste of your mana overall, then go right ahead. Not everyone studies the effect of the character as I do... some people are happy with pretty colors and flashy shiny things...
I am fine in understanding that for your situations it has not been useful and it's fine that you don't use it but please do not assume things about me not studying characters or preferring flashy colours. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding here as well though and it's more of a general statement, though unlike me you did use "you" to make the sentence sound personal towards one of us on the boards.
I, too, study the mana use of things. My usual party in saints consists of a TK, BD, and Prophet. Without me they have no real crowd control and they're okay with it but it's much easier with me there. Since the cost of sleep is more expensive to individually cast upon 2+ mobs than a single sleep cloud, I tend to use sleep cloud. I am very adamant the land rate was increased because it hardly fails anymore. It's much more useful in my (personally me!) parties than fear ever will be since fear has actually gotten me yelled at. =P Naturally when I'm with healers in a party, I no longer crowd control. It's much faster for an EE to trance 3 things than I to sleep cloud. However all the new crowd controls have a very short duration so I still <3 sleep.
You mention playing since Prelude, good for you. I have had my character since closed beta as well. Granted, I took a year break.
My point, as I said.. was simply to give my (personal, personal!) outlook on the skill (and originally spellsingers in general...) so please don't assume things with (seemingly) directed statements such as that.
Note I'm taking my time to word things rather well as not to offend because in no way was my original post meant to start this sort of battle. >.>