how the... is it posible to crit like this,it isnt normal crit for 10k ....and how much does that archer crit on Tank .. for sure it will be 5k or even more.
So about what kind of balance here we are talking about,NC fix a little bit nuker but what about archers? This is just 1 shot any class in game.
Yeah, my then Sh has gotten hit like this before. You sort of sit there amazed for a while when it happens. It usually takes three to four shots from an archer to take me out.
Well let's just say, because you covered it, you're level 70.
You're wearing Blue Wolf Robes and probably had Zerk 2, you are a caster afterall. With a +4 Con tattoo, and that prophet giving you btb 6, you would have 4176 HP. Zerk 2 brings your p def down to a measly 606, that's with everything at +3.
There's no shot of the archer's gear or anything so it's impossible to tell his level. Just letting you know you should get used to taking massive amounts of damage from other characters in C5.
Well let's just say, because you covered it, you're level 70.
You're wearing Blue Wolf Robes and probably had Zerk 2, you are a caster afterall. With a +4 Con tattoo, and that prophet giving you btb 6, you would have 4176 HP. Zerk 2 brings your p def down to a measly 606, that's with everything at +3.
There's no shot of the archer's gear or anything so it's impossible to tell his level. Just letting you know you should get used to taking massive amounts of damage from other characters in C5.
well
nuker hit you for 1k dmg, you use ghp and cp pots = recovered 700 hp
archer hit you for 10k ....you are dead
tank hit you for 200 dmg,archer use cp pot = full cp and hit a tank like 4k dmg
Is that right ? all classes do dmg in c5 ? i dont think so
and He can get like 120 cp pots with arrows and ss and be on 40% of weight limit... this just LOL :eek:
Well let's just say, because you covered it, you're level 70.
You're wearing Blue Wolf Robes and probably had Zerk 2, you are a caster afterall. With a +4 Con tattoo, and that prophet giving you btb 6, you would have 4176 HP. Zerk 2 brings your p def down to a measly 606, that's with everything at +3.
There's no shot of the archer's gear or anything so it's impossible to tell his level. Just letting you know you should get used to taking massive amounts of damage from other characters in C5.
well
nuker hit you for 1k dmg, you use ghp and cp pots = recovered 700 hp
archer hit you for 10k ....you are dead
tank hit you for 200 dmg,archer use cp pot = full cp and hit a tank like 4k dmg
Is that right ? all classes do dmg in c5 ? i dont think so
I have a sorc hit me for ~7700 HPs. I was in full +3 BO jewelry.
nuker hit you for 1k dmg, you use ghp and cp pots = recovered 700 hp
archer hit you for 10k ....you are dead
tank hit you for 200 dmg,archer use cp pot = full cp and hit a tank like 4k dmg
Is that right ? all classes do dmg in c5 ? i dont think so
and He can get like 120 cp pots with arrows and ss and bi on 40% of weight limit... this just LOL :eek:
You haven't told us what the archer was using yet. If he was some HE with a Draconic Set and Epic Jewels then 10k crit would be expected on a level 70 BW Robe user.
A dagger can one shot you with just the same luck. 76 Adventurer with Crit Buffs would 1 shot you if his backstab landed no problem.
Saying this same archer will crit a tank or any other class for 5-10k is a gross exaggeration. Tanks of that level have over 1k P Def, Deflect Arrow, and great shield block rates. The tank could Arrest or Shield Bash the archer and royally [censored] them up if either lands. You could have even spammed Trance on the archer until your partymates had him on target. Looks like you were afk or just choked up though.
Yeah, archers and nukers both have high DPS, except nukers' DPS can be, to some degree, buffed against (of course the whole surrender system is still broken, but let's not go there).
They are trying to take measures to slow down the PvP, and everyone whines about it like no tomorrow. I'm glad they're doing this.
However, 10k crit from someone who quite possibly outgeared you by two grades (they must be wearing boss jewellery for that kind of crit damage, and that probably means a high level clan, therefore a high level character) when you're not buffed defensively (no songs?)... well, it's not much of a surprise.
In the end, they need more defensive buffs - and possibly block death whisper/focus debuffs for the main healers (block focus to PP, block DW to SE or something like that).
I was wearing majestic robes and jewels all +3 or 4 and had a caster hit me for 7800 as well. There's no outhealing anything that one shots for more than your entire cp, and hp even with btb on. Sadface emo.
but look crit dmg is x8 ... it should be like this nc need to fix crit buffs cos they stack and each buff incrase your crit not the base dmg of unbuffered critical,and maximum crit dmg should be x4 but not x8 its insane
Well first of, all you guys who scream HE IS IN BW, HE CAN BE IN HIGHER LV GEAR AND SOAK THE DAMAGE UP.... Screw you, do you know how anything at all?
Very tiny example here, he can be in DC sure, best P.def for her lv.
the % P.def difference between BW, and DC on an lv 70 Bishop with all masteries learned and the fort: Using http://www.l2guru.com/l2calc/
Is: DC: 688 P.def
BW: 624 P.def
(Majestic robe 677 P.def just so you get that DC give more )
Both set +0.
Anyhow that is an 10% P.def difference.
So the crit would have ben 9k ..... OK I hope some of you guys get this part at least.
For crits like this, it doesn't mater what robes a user use at ALL. In fact it wouldn't even mater for a dwarf, a dwarf got about 930 P.def around that lv, thats about 35% more P.def so that crit would hit for 6500, 2 of em would kill almost any dwarf.
This game really have insane bad balance issisues between ranged vs non ranged class, and it does not just apply itself for archers, nukers is overpowered as well. All other classes more or less is gimp. And I for one have asked for an extream long time to get this fixed, but it's yet to get fixed.
It's not so much a problem with archers, mages, or any other class being overpowered. It's a problem with buffs being skewed and causing classes to be overpowered.
Without buffs archers and mages are not that bad. With full buffs, boss jewels, SA's, and armor set bonuses, it just gets ridiculous.
Jesus 10k, dam i gotta make a archer :) Remember being hit for 5k when i was a noobie lvl 22 in full brig on my dwarf. Some lvl 52+ 1 hit me, the went hahaha owned =/
Yet another reason why there should be a whole slew of defensive ITEMS in game, not just buffs. Like jewels that aren't freakishly epic that give resistances to wind, water, whatever. Armor that is strong vs archery, or has naturally extra high mdef.
There should just be more things in game that can counter level 5 x-men raid boss Vina's out there :P
I am totally for that. I prefer defense over offense in games, but offense is always overbalanced comapared to defense (in eve too, and that's why I don't play it)
should make some sort of system for adding SA to jewelery, like resists, or resist arrow... stuff like that. (kinda similar to GW rune and armor system I guess.)
It doesn't matter when the damage is so high and the crits are so common.
Archers one-hit robe users 50% (49.7% of the time for DE archers) of the time with full buffs and A or S-grade robes... even if the shield goes off, and they have +4con, it simply does not matter.
NO class should one-hit any other even levelled/equipped class ever.
Not archers, not daggers, not mages.
If he's full buffed and you're not, and even more, you're in B grade, you're going to be one shot.
On my GS with a +3 draconic bow, ant queen ring, baium ring, full buffs with greater might, cov, full dances (fury fire warrior), and deadeye on, basically everything except cat queen buff, it takes 4 or so crits to actually kill a properly buffed robe user, like a healer or nuker. That's just as much as the 4 or 5 nukes it'd take to kill me.
You were one shot because you were outclassed, not because anything is wrong.
If he's full buffed and you're not, and even more, you're in B grade, you're going to be one shot.
On my GS with a +3 draconic bow, ant queen ring, baium ring, full buffs with greater might, cov, full dances (fury fire warrior), and deadeye on, basically everything except cat queen buff, it takes 4 or so crits to actually kill a properly buffed robe user, like a healer or nuker. That's just as much as the 4 or 5 nukes it'd take to kill me.
You were one shot because you were outclassed, not because anything is wrong.
Read what I wrote above, difference between top B grade robe and A grade robe P.def is 10%, Difference between top B grade LA and top A grade light armor is 5% P.def
So even IF she was in P.def it wouldn't mater at all, is that so hard to get?
And by the way, please tell me what gear you suppose to use as a robe eg healer to be able to survive 1 hit from this hits? because it ain't DC robe ( highest P.def for robes of all A grade )
4 or so CRITS to kill a robe user???? Crits on me are like 3-4k, and with btb and maybe song of vit I can have 6k hp but that's still like a crit and a half at worst. , what the hell buffs are going to protect against an insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels??? Shield 3? Greater Shield? gimmie a break.
If he's full buffed and you're not, and even more, you're in B grade, you're going to be one shot.
On my GS with a +3 draconic bow, ant queen ring, baium ring, full buffs with greater might, cov, full dances (fury fire warrior), and deadeye on, basically everything except cat queen buff, it takes 4 or so crits to actually kill a properly buffed robe user, like a healer or nuker. That's just as much as the 4 or 5 nukes it'd take to kill me.
You were one shot because you were outclassed, not because anything is wrong.
Read what I wrote above, difference between top B grade robe and A grade robe P.def is 10%, Difference between top B grade LA and top A grade light armor is 5% P.def
So even IF she was in P.def it wouldn't mater at all, is that so hard to get?
And by the way, please tell me what gear you suppose to use as a robe eg healer to be able to survive 1 hit from this hits? because it ain't DC robe ( highest P.def for robes of all A grade )
Yeah it's DC robes for the most part that all the healers use. =o And it's more about what buffs you have than your robes!
4 or so CRITS to kill a robe user???? Crits on me are like 3-4k, and with btb and maybe song of vit I can have 6k hp but that's still like a crit and a half at worst. , what the hell buffs are going to protect against an insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels??? Shield 3? Greater Shield? gimmie a break.
Excuse the arrogance, but I am an "insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels", I have everything that I stated earlier.
You have 6k HP(I'm not sure how your HP is that low btw, what class are you?) Of course you're going to have greater shield, cov, shield 3, song of earth, shield buffs (bless shield and advanced block), and archers won't hit you very hard. I mean they will, but even with 6k hp and let's say like... 1.7k CP or something, you'd still be a 3 shot.
4 or so CRITS to kill a robe user???? Crits on me are like 3-4k, and with btb and maybe song of vit I can have 6k hp but that's still like a crit and a half at worst. , what the hell buffs are going to protect against an insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels??? Shield 3? Greater Shield? gimmie a break.
Excuse the arrogance, but I am an "insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels", I have everything that I stated earlier.
You have 6k HP(I'm not sure how your HP is that low btw, what class are you?) Of course you're going to have greater shield, cov, shield 3, song of earth, shield buffs (bless shield and advanced block), and archers won't hit you very hard. I mean they will, but even with 6k hp and let's say like... 1.7k CP or something, you'd still be a 3 shot.
ooo yes if archer wont crit on you ... and if he does well its 2 shots max to kill a robe user,even if you get umber p.def like 1.2k still archer kill you with 2 shots
and aezen do you think its ok to give thet crit chanse on bow if bow has already higest p.atk in game +range, and in lv 76 you get focus on it .. comon what a h... is this you can get like 4k p.atk,800+ aspd and 900 range and in new uppdate it will be like 1.2k of range.Tell me how long will your HK gonna live Vs a Sagittarius who can hold 120 great cp pots +50 qhp and be on 1/2 weight limit ??? and yes with like 1.3k or even more p.def
Then just look in any RPG game ..archer is DD support for melee to get in to the enemy,nothing more then that,but no here archer can do whatever they want.
PD: what i am seening during all 5 cronicles is what NC can destroy one class ,but overpowerd another.Its realy sad :(
Calling Kularus a noob...? Do you not know who he is?
this post is not about how is noob and who is who, i just want to say what this dmg is not right, and nc should do somthing to balanse the game.
I'm just saying, eventually when you get up top to where we are, it balances out, so have faith in NCSoft. Of course things won't be balanced when there are people who have better equipment/buffs than you.
first of all hero shoudnt be added to that, its not a buff everyone can get (only those whit hero's)
secondly relaying on cov lol
our archer party destroys people who pop cov
again there are no real buffs against archers, only small pdef adding buffs nothing compared to elemental protection etc, something that actuly affects the damage rather then chaging the stats a bit
and as for needed 3 crits to kill a mage same lvl at 78
your doing something very very wrong
Excuse the arrogance, but I am an "insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels", I have everything that I stated earlier.
You have 6k HP(I'm not sure how your HP is that low btw, what class are you?)
Obviously, I was referring to you when I wrote this post.
How is my hp "that low"? Are you joking? I'm a robe wearing healer, a cardinal to be exact. With +4 CON, and the highest level of body of avatar I have (I'm 76 btw) I have "only" 4,735 hp. With some other HP boosting thing I get up to 5,682, looking at a fraps of me at a siege. With 2363 cp on a good day I have 7-8k total squishyness to deal with.
This past siege I was getting hit for, what I ASSUME are crits, for between 2-4k dmg a shot, proper buffed for once. Now if you were critting on me I'm guessing it would be 4k or more, so I'm not sure how that would end up being more than 2 crits.
If he's full buffed and you're not, and even more, you're in B grade, you're going to be one shot.
On my GS with a +3 draconic bow, ant queen ring, baium ring, full buffs with greater might, cov, full dances (fury fire warrior), and deadeye on, basically everything except cat queen buff, it takes 4 or so crits to actually kill a properly buffed robe user, like a healer or nuker. That's just as much as the 4 or 5 nukes it'd take to kill me.
You were one shot because you were outclassed, not because anything is wrong.
Read what I wrote above, difference between top B grade robe and A grade robe P.def is 10%, Difference between top B grade LA and top A grade light armor is 5% P.def
So even IF she was in P.def it wouldn't mater at all, is that so hard to get?
And by the way, please tell me what gear you suppose to use as a robe eg healer to be able to survive 1 hit from this hits? because it ain't DC robe ( highest P.def for robes of all A grade )
the archer has clan pattack skill, the BW bishop has no clan pdef skill or greater shield or song of earth(NOTICE that THE SONG OF EARTH HAS WORN OFF system message, the archer was LUCKY to shot right after that), and the sheild did not block
and excellent shield block > Drac bow full buff AQ ring baium ring, etc blah blah blah
all that needs to be done is make deflect arrow work better like it did before the ridiculous focus on drac bow. then tank pwn archer and nuker pwn tank and archer pwn nuker. nice balance. focus drac bow is of course CRAZINESS but if deflect arrow worked better then balance would be restored and all would be fine and good in the world once again. instead i hear that sheild defense now has a chance to deflect a nuke and archer get more powerful stun shot and longer range!!!!!hmmmmmm. well i would stop whinning and make an archer but getting one to pvp lvl would not happen before l3 is out. i am whinning!!! bring balance back to the world! DEFLECT ARROW that works against focus drac bow and all will be as it should be....
the archer has clan pattack skill, the BW bishop has no clan pdef skill or greater shield or song of earth(NOTICE that THE SONG OF EARTH HAS WORN OFF system message, the archer was LUCKY to shot right after that), and the sheild did not block
and excellent shield block > Drac bow full buff AQ ring baium ring, etc blah blah blah
Even if she had all that, it still result that she's dead in 2 crits, and it seems I'm just one fo the few here who kind of can figure out that there is something wrong with that.
As for shield block, you need to be exactly up front of the person you attack for that to happen, if you are sure you gonna get blocked, but if your not there is no chance that she will shield block your attacks.
then make the pdef more effective against archers. think about it, a hvy armor tank gets hit with an arrow from a long range and it should not even break the armor. it is a game but based somewhat on medievel battling concepts. a dagger can do massive dmg if they sneak up behind someone. an archer can do massive dmg form a great distance to light armor or robes. but a knight in full plate style armor would be bouncing arrows unless one finds a gap in the armor....so maybe it should not be so much about sheild defense but more about a lessor chance to crit on hvy armor toons. less chance to crit like the arrow has smaller chance of finding a gap in the plate...
how the... is it posible to crit like this,it isnt normal crit for 10k ....and how much does that archer crit on Tank .. for sure it will be 5k or even more.
So about what kind of balance here we are talking about,NC fix a little bit nuker but what about archers? This is just 1 shot any class in game.
you've played till lvl 70 and still a noob. i got nothing more to add here than what some already posted.
If someone played for a while, and still have no idea how an archer can get such high crit hits, then the definition of "Newby" is far far gone, hence enters the new world into our vocabulary, and that being a "Noob" or "N00b" or my personal favorite: "Nooblet" =)
I agree with PleChan.. there is something wrong with this game.. at the same time it's wrong for a robe user to have almost 2k pdef >.< Hero buffs should be reconsidered as well.
Best defense against archers, is.. hold your breath.. a shield! With adv. block it cuts damage in just about half! Of course, dont turn your back on the archer, that is a guaranteed unblocked critical hit ;)
Interlude will be messed up with invincibility buffs.. LF 79+ SWS!
It's not at all wrong to have more PDef than PAtk - if you check at the lower levels, it is, in fact, the norm....
Personally, I reckon the first thing that needs fixing is OE ease of armour (armour should be much, much easier to enchant than weapons, or at least yield larger results) and stacking buffs.
It's not at all wrong to have more PDef than PAtk - if you check at the lower levels, it is, in fact, the norm....
Personally, I reckon the first thing that needs fixing is OE ease of armour (armour should be much, much easier to enchant than weapons, or at least yield larger results) and stacking buffs.
I agree totally with MalineII on the above quote. There is nothing wrong with robes having way to get more PDef just like it's not wrong for melee to get more MDef. And indeed OE of armor should be easier then weapons or at least yield more effect from the OE be it at +1 or +3 or +6
I agree with the OP that Archers do crit alot and hard, but same goes for daggers and on occasions casters (although the latter ones mostly are pure chance and less frequent than Archers even with Wild magick added).
Then again...Even mobs tend to cause Exorbitant high damage these days, like our spell SInger Amileria had a few days ago in Forest of the Dead...One of the mobs there one shotted her for 28K damage See Picture (http://users.skynet.be/bs905008/img/Forum/28kDamages.jpg) ... I see no reason why robe users should be penalised even furter then they have already been up to this day when all else in the game is made more and more Uber to start with.
There seems to be a tendancy to 'balance' out things each time a new patch comes, but somehow it get's less and less likely to be just that. Then again most of the features do get inplemented after a customer satisfaction (or dissatisfaction) of the total game...To me Prelude was a great time ...Ah the good old days.
If someone played for a while, and still have no idea how an archer can get such high crit hits, then the definition of "Newby" is far far gone, hence enters the new world into our vocabulary, and that being a "Noob" or "N00b" or my personal favorite: "Nooblet" =)
WTS reading comprehension.Everyone knows what buffs and items are required for this kind of damage.The problem is that this damage can be dealt.But since you play an archer its perfectly ok to crit people for this much isnt it?
Problem simply is that there are lots of buffs against nukes, but only pdef raising ones against arrows. That's like only having mdef raising buffs against nukes and no resist <element> buffs. There simply should be a resist arrow buff which is NOT a self-buff, but instead a normal target buff. And, like many already suggested, debuffs which lower crit chance and crit damage. or a complete overhaul of crit rate / crit damage buffs.
Of course a lvl 70 in B grade robes should lose to a fully buffed S grade archers with epic jewels. But a 3rd class change robe user with fairly good equipment should not need all the buffs in the game (including hero buffs) just to not be a 2 shot for a same level archer. That's just wrong. Archer crits happen too often and do far too much damage. Either reduce the crit rate, or change the way crit damage buffs stack. The changes announced for Interlude do not seem to be enough, I think.
On another note, I never understood why archers do so much damage in this game. IMHO melee damage should be higher than ranged damage, simply because "range" is an advantage, so there has to be some kind of disadvantage in the damage ranged attackers do. Nukers still should be able to do huge damage, but not at an insane casting speed.
The arrow resist buff you're looking for is called... advanced block and blessed shield. It messes archers up.. unless they're fullbuffed with boss jewels ofc
It is wrong to DOUBLE your pdef on robes! Same as it's wrong that crit damage buffs stack so insanely..
Either reduce the crit rate, or change the way crit damage buffs stack.
I never understood why they have to stack at all. From a game design standpoint, it just makes no sense - just make it so that the best buff is the one (and only one) being used, and you don't have any problems at all with overpowered stacking, force multipliers out of control and positive feedback loops.
archers:
- better pdef (light armor)
- better buffs in game for crits and patk
- can crit nearly all the time,
- it takes time to get to tham for not ranged classes
- skills to put archer out of use - anchor, sleep, stunt
mages:
- lower pdef (robes)
- less buffs for makt and crit matk for mages in game
- can crit from time to time
- it takes time to get to tham for not ranged classes
- skills to put mage out of use - anchor, sleep, stunt, silence
(if i forgot something im sorry)
but the best thing is - U CANT INTERRUPT ARCHER BUT YOU CAN INTERRUPT MAGE BY CASTING
daggers are ok they need time to get to ranged class, other classes have better def, archers have to be fixed but this crit thing in C6 will nerf all classes patk so less dmg from all classes, only mages can still do nice but... just see above
archers:
(...)
- skills to put archer out of use - anchor, sleep, stunt
(Emphasis mine).
LOL.
Just ... LOL. Anchoring an archer is about as useful as silencing a Dwarf. Sure, you might get them sometimes if they're subclassed ... but 99% of the time, it's not worth the effort.
archers:
(...)
- skills to put archer out of use - anchor, sleep, stunt
(Emphasis mine).
LOL.
Just ... LOL. Anchoring an archer is about as useful as silencing a Dwarf. Sure, you might get them sometimes if they're subclassed ... but 99% of the time, it's not worth the effort.
I agree anchor would not really cut it...Use slow instead and reduce the runspeed of an archer
I rarely interrupt mages. Mages and archers are more equal than you would think. Nukers have constant high damage, no matter what buffs they got. Archers rock only with bd or fullbuffed. I had a Storm Screamer 78 nuke me for 2.3k 1.8k 1.8k 1.8k dead.. he only had SE+PP buffs, i had like 960ish mdef. I did 850 dmg on crits to him with PP buffs, GG he had adv. block as well.. didn't stand a chance.
Focus Draconic bow isn't so bad either, doesn't increase damage anything nearly as much as acumen/armor/tatoos/buffs/SAs and such for nukers..
The arrow resist buff you're looking for is called... advanced block and blessed shield. It messes archers up.. unless they're fullbuffed with boss jewels ofc
So, tell me then, why are there 2h mage weapons (staff) in game? When every nuker is supposed to carry around a SHIELD to survive in pvp? (btw this is pretty much the only fantasy game or story where nukers carry a shield, I think it is just "lol" - if I were a dev, i would introduce a penalty for classes without a shield mastery skill (i.e. tanks, dwarves) who try to use a shield)
2H mage weapon have to be a viable option, too. The solution to the uber-archer-damage cannot be that people are forced into one particular cookie cutter build to even have a slight chance of surviving in pvp.
Let's face it, there's no place for healers on the siege field anymore. Archers and nukers die too fast to be healed, and getting close enough to heal tanks or melee is too dangerous. So we're relegated to being buffers and rechargers or getting repeatedly dropped quickly.
My lvl 58 b-grade sws is more effective than my lvl 66 a-grade healer, so that's what I'll be playing now.
You are right, there is only room for buffers, dd's and rezzers. PvP is way too fast, I preffered pre lvl 50 PvP in Prelude almost. Critical damage has ALWAYS been a problem. Most skills people get do LESS damage than critical hits. Adding even MORE damage to the game always allows archers to benefit. Who would have thought that the classes who specialize in non skill attacks and critical attacks would be far superior in this system. Daggers, Archers, Destroyers and nukers all have insane P.Atk.
What this game needs is a way for a party to (if played correctly) can defend themselves from an onslaught of the highest dps a party could do at equivelant level.
The critical damage nerf in Interlude is long awaited... but now a passive to increase range? :confused:
4 or so CRITS to kill a robe user???? Crits on me are like 3-4k, and with btb and maybe song of vit I can have 6k hp but that's still like a crit and a half at worst. , what the hell buffs are going to protect against an insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels??? Shield 3? Greater Shield? gimmie a break.
Excuse the arrogance, but I am an "insane archer with a drac bow and epic jewels", I have everything that I stated earlier.
You have 6k HP(I'm not sure how your HP is that low btw, what class are you?) Of course you're going to have greater shield, cov, shield 3, song of earth, shield buffs (bless shield and advanced block), and archers won't hit you very hard. I mean they will, but even with 6k hp and let's say like... 1.7k CP or something, you'd still be a 3 shot.
According to http://www.l2guru.com/l2calc/ bishop of 70 lvl with Shield 3, Earth Chant, Song of Earth and DC Robe set +0 will have 1124 PDef.
That is, crit would made not 10478 damage, but only a half (5239).
With CON+4 tatoo, Bless the body 6, but without Song of Vitality it will be over total hit points maximum for bishop (5011).
As you probably know, parties generally can't allow a luxury of song of vitality.
In short, bishop is 1-shot target if for some reason he has more than 1 attacker. And 2-shot target if he's with shield and attacked by single attacker from the front.
WTF???
I have to agree with Varaya. In most of the games, a spell caster with a shield means increased chance of spell failure (not existing here). On the other hand, the archer class has some advantages that are not consistent with archery. I have to state though that I like to view the game with "real life" terms. Some may agree with that, some others may not. That being said, here are my suggestions
1) Hitting with high accuracy all the time is flawed to begin with. Here are some proposals:
-Since they use a ranged weapon, the weapon’s natural accuracy should be lower than any other weapon’s.
-A bonus to accuracy should be provided depending on the range from target (closer to target->more accuracy).
-Receiving damage should introduce a chance to miss (similar to spell interruption).
-If a target is running away from them they should also have increased chance for missing. The opposite if the target is running towards them
-A skill that improves accuracy can be introduced (like higher accuracy-longer time to shoot the arrow).
2) Hitting for high damage is too much. To be exact, not the critical damage amount but the rate that critical hits occur. That can be fixed by giving the bow a natural decrease in critical attack rate.
3)Archers also have natural high speed that helps them survive but the ability to slow the enemy seems a bit too much. Instead, all melee classes (not only tanks) should have a version of slow (something like tyrant’s cripple) not archers (who is going to kite them anyway?).
4) Another idea that doesn’t involve any class nerfing but provides some balance, would be to introduce a buff that would give increased resistance to arrows (like deflect arrows) or reduce their critical attack rate or damage. The alternative would be to make the shield block rate and the shield block effect increase against arrows, even without shield masteries (I do prefer though the first option. I find unnatural mages with shields)
All the above suggestion could apply on PvP only and not in PvE.
I am not suggesting that all of these should take place simultaneously (that would make archers an underpowered class and this should not happen), but some of them are needed in order to balance their many advantages. I believe that in a PvP game all classes should have at least a (reasonable) chance of achieving victory against any other class. Of course some classes will have better chances against others, but that’s the game.
Let's face it, there's no place for healers on the siege field anymore.
Nah we do alright in archer parties, less ok in mage parties. But since no major healer (bishop/ee) can heal cp, we're just sitting on our hands until it hits into HP and anything short of spam battle heal or extreme ee speed set up is a waste of time.
Archers are a little better. Not being able to heal any cp is a real problem. Usually once a mage is into his hp (which is often in 1 hit if its a ranged attack), you can heal them to full, and they'll still die in the next hit. And at sieges where usually people use assist....
Ignore the archers intent on keeping their perma-insta-win.
Robes with full buffs and a shield die in one hit to a fully buffed archer. (provided he crits)
If the archer doesn't crit, robes are mathematically likely to die on the second shot.
Honestly,
Archers aren't actually broken.
BUFF STACKING is broken.
Crit chance, Crit damage, Castspeed are the worst offenders.
I wouldn't mind one bit if they put in a cast speed penalty to shields provided buff stacking was fixed to be reasonable.
I wouldn't want shield mastery actually, I'd like to see more defensive skills like in old console games :) Like blur, which would make you extremely hard to hit for a number of attempted attacks, vanish which would entirely avoid one attack, etc.
I wouldn't want shield mastery actually, I'd like to see more defensive skills like in old console games :) Like blur, which would make you extremely hard to hit for a number of attempted attacks, vanish which would entirely avoid one attack, etc.
/cast mirror image
Archer 1 - wth theres 8 of them now
Archer 2 - Lag!
Archer 1 - Dead
Archer 2 - Dead
Nerf! lol
That would be fun though. I loved the stacking defensive buffs and combinations you could use in games like Baldurs Gate. So many choices :cool:
I just don't think skills should be taken from classes that should have it, like the tanks, healers should be given something new. IMO nukers don't belong using a shield anyway, it's stupid.
Who cares what there is the most of out there, one thing is for sure, both Nukers and archers is overpowered.
Who the HELL cares who is the MOST overpowered with the problem exist with BOTH.
The difference between ranged and non ranged in this game is way to extream.
It's pretty extreme if you let it be extreme. Ever fight a dagger in a catacomb?
These classes aren't overpowered... you guys just seem to be bad. :(
We're having robe classes at the very end game tell you that you can defend against them, and showing you guys how, but instead you guys are just continuing to cry about how they're overpowered and that's kinda weird. Easier to complain than learn I guess! :p
Simple solution: make tanks tougher against archers. nothing else needs to be done. Balance restored. Arrows should bounce off tanks. A lucky crit here and there against tanks but not as high as other robe wearing or light armor toons. Tank pwn archer, archer pwn nuker, nuker pwn tank. BALANCE.
It's pretty extreme if you let it be extreme. Ever fight a dagger in a catacomb?
These classes aren't overpowered... you guys just seem to be bad. :(
We're having robe classes at the very end game tell you that you can defend against them, and showing you guys how, but instead you guys are just continuing to cry about how they're overpowered and that's kinda weird. Easier to complain than learn I guess! :p
Verry much fun that you mention dagger users in catacomb, my EE's few PVP score came from beating 2 of them in a catacomb, your point being?
You gota be really blind to not see that some classes in this game is sickly over powered, hell all buffs in the world for many classes won't help at all When they are dead before they even got a chance to reach there target.
Example warrior classes in general, not just BH, BH got the most M.def of them all and oh by the way also more HP then some of them. Yet again, even if they are buffed with M.def related stuff they can be drooped in 3-5 nukes from an nuker at 7x That what happened to me not to long ago, took 4 nukes, all hilted for 2k, was a soloing necro no support beside herself took me down before I managed to hit her the second time. for about 100 in damage, while she drooped 8k of damage on me. Yet again notice yeah BH do have more M.def then any other class who don't have M.def masteries, why? because we got higher MEN but this does not help.
From what I'm getting from some of you guys here, to balance PVP, some classes need 3-4 support classes behind them to beat one class thats far from balanced if you ask me. And yeah, buffs is part of the problem but not all. Clare to eg explain why mages can only use SPS at Olympiad? And no Archers is overpowered to my example just took up that this exist within all rangers. It may not usually be as extream as the pic at the front page, but saying there is non is way wrong.
never played rune , was always able to afford monthly fee based mmorpg's. BUT!!! you cant argue with the logic, tanks should SLAY archers. I will put on a thick plate of metal and you can have the most powerful bow available and your arrow will break against my metal. Now if you can find a joint that is not covered with thick plated armor and an arrow gets in....i feel the pain like everyone else. But from 600-800 range you wont be finding that weak spot very often. Maybe if close range higher crit chance against tanks but from the distance archer usually try to stay when fighting DA, you wont (or you should'nt) be able to crit. Archer should be like a ranged dagger, from a distance a robe wearing toon will die and a light armor toon should take similar dmg. but a tank should be able take whatever you can deal from a distance, front or back. Nukers should take hvy archer dmg it is a battle of who can out dmg who faster when it comes to nuker vs archer. But tanks should be slaying archers as quickly as nukers slay tanks. you can argue buffs and gear and this and that but it is a simple formula based on common sense. I have a bow and it would never peirce even the thinnest peice of metal. Archers should be about being acurate. More chance is needed in their dmg doing ability like daggers. They should not ever be critting for thousands of hp on hvy armored tanks. When a nuker hits me with his staff so should it be when an arrow hits a peice of hvy armor. Find the gaps in the armor should be the concept for archers, acurate shots, hitting gaps based on toons acuracy which increase with buffs and lvl and the distance of their shot.
The arrow resist buff you're looking for is called... advanced block and blessed shield. It messes archers up.. unless they're fullbuffed with boss jewels ofc
So, tell me then, why are there 2h mage weapons (staff) in game? When every nuker is supposed to carry around a SHIELD to survive in pvp? (btw this is pretty much the only fantasy game or story where nukers carry a shield, I think it is just "lol" - if I were a dev, i would introduce a penalty for classes without a shield mastery skill (i.e. tanks, dwarves) who try to use a shield)
2H mage weapon have to be a viable option, too. The solution to the uber-archer-damage cannot be that people are forced into one particular cookie cutter build to even have a slight chance of surviving in pvp.
2 handed mage weapons will be a viable choice for my spellsinger when the staffs actually look like something a not very strong mage could be wearing. The staff heads themselves need to stop weighing 50 pounds each and the staff length needs to be less than the normal 10 feet. Right now, the mage staffs tend be very ugly or very top heavy, and are something I don't want to see on my character.
On the other hand, the B and A grade mage swords are very well made, quite appealing and look like something a mage should be carrying, they are quite slim and delicate.
I am totally for that. I prefer defense over offense in games, but offense is always overbalanced comapared to defense (in eve too, and that's why I don't play it)
should make some sort of system for adding SA to jewelery, like resists, or resist arrow... stuff like that. (kinda similar to GW rune and armor system I guess.)
I've made comments about that.
Why NCsoft don't do that is beyond me.
But the fact that they are adding the refinement system in interlude is nuts. (as if Archers and nukers aren't strong enough!)
Why make weapons stronger, and easier to kill; but not make armor and Jewellery's resist better.