Can someone pls explain to me the idiocy of buffers 'buffing' themselves? This doesn't really apply to Clerics/Prophets, cause at least those guys do usually jump and flex their little muscles. The problem is moslty with SO/SE/EE.
Say like, you're trying to do a raid, and the buffer buffs everyone, including themselves. To what purpose? Oh they will heal better when they have Empower, Focus, Kiss of Eva, etc?? Oh way, they won't because they've waisted a good number of their MP pool on useless buffs for themselves and now may not have enough MP to heal the raid party.
Even if the SE is not raiding, but say in a Cata group, the **** SE just buffs itself, buffs the others and sits down. What the hell is the purpose of doing that?
The main reason, so the buffer will know when others buffs are expiring. That is why they buff themselves first, so no one loses buffs before the buffer notices.
Second, there are buffs that help the buffer avoid sleep, and increase MAtk (which increases the effect of other spells.)
he's talking about people who give themselves EVERY buff.
Exactly.
so the buffer will know when others buffs are expiring. That is why they buff themselves first, so no one loses buffs before the buffer notices.
The buffs get applied in a certain order, and they expire in the exact same order, meaning the one that was applied 1st, will expire 1st, etc, etc. Right? Right.
So say if the SE gives itself WW, and the rest of the buffs go to other people, the SE will still know (unless he/she is half blind), that when their own WW starts flashing, than that means other peoples buffs are gonna go soon too right?
Lastly, now I admit, I'm a noob buffer, my SO is yet to make lvl 30, but please explain what out of all the buffs that an SE has, what does increasing it's M.atk does for the SE? Does higher m.atk give better heals? probably not, does it let it buff faster? no, does it give a better chance that the buff actually lands? no, because buffs land 100%. What then does raising m.atk on SE does for it?
I buff off macros now (since staggering without them is a PITA and if I don't use macros, I'll be unable to heal on the EE while the PP buffs), and my macros look like this ... depending on the spot I often won't run the macro through entirely but break it off a buff or two early (i.e. if I'm in a relatively safe spot, such as one without potential magic crits, no BtB or magic barrier).
Caster Buffs
Acumen, Bless the Soul, Berserker Spirit
Basic Buffs
Windwalk, Shield, Bless the Body, Magic Shield
Damagedealer Buffs
Might, Focus, Death Whisper, Guidance, Haste, Holy Weapon
I buff Berserker on damage dealers seperately depending on the situation, Concentration, Mental Shield and Bless the Shield I don't have since the EE does those. :p
I'm thinking of making a DD macro for blunt users that skimps on focus and guidance, since I sometimes get into a tight spot with MP in a big group. ~.~
Of course, I started this practice since I need to stagger buffs into two sets (basic + caster consume almost all my MP in a group, so I buff those, we run to hunt spot, I buff DD, and then I take turns buffing them every 10 minutes), so I've started to think about what buffs I should or should not use. ^_^
I think having several non-overlapping macros really helps, since that way I can give the proper selection of buffs to people. I think for an SE, it would be:
(Vamprage should go last so you can start doing something else while guidance casts if you're, say, buffing an archer ~.~).
Situational buffs should go on a seperate macro that you redo off your buff bars every time you enter an area ... except holy weapon since it's not defensive. There is no buff macro that should have GoE unless you got one specifically for going down to a cata!
Actually, the difference it makes with BSPS is rather small.
The whole MATK thing is a little strange actually. MATK plays a much larger role in determining heal amount if you don't use shot; when you do use shot, the role is very small.
However, for raids and the such, healers do need buffs. Apart from your SwS (and BD if you can spare one), you'll want:
Acumen, Zerker Spirit, Empower -- To cast heals much faster and at least a little stronger.
Shield, Magic Barrier, Greater Shield -- As you run a high chance of pulling aggro, meaning you may tank a few hits.
Windwalk -- Because if you pull, you're probably going to kite it (here kite = run around in circles crying like a little girl).
Bless the Body, Bless the Soul -- To have a larger HP pool if you take aggro, and a larger MP pool for the boss. (BtB is usually taken care of by Body of Avatar from the bishop anyhow). BtB is especially important as you're probably using a Conversion weapon if you're doing raid healing, and that means -30% to your HP.
Resist Shock, Concentration, Mental Shield -- To protect against status debuffs and cast interruptions.
Clarity -- To make your MP last longer.
That is already thirteen buffs; with three songs you're up to sixteen. Not completely fully buffed, but still a respectably large number a healer has a substantial use for.
Oh, and for MP saving, a raid healer isn't going to buff themselves except their uniques. Buffing should be left to the prophets/warcryers/overlords on raids, with as little done by the elders as possible. Their MP has a far greater purpose.
Lastly, now I admit, I'm a noob buffer, my SO is yet to make lvl 30, but please explain what out of all the buffs that an SE has, what does increasing it's M.atk does for the SE? Does higher m.atk give better heals? probably not, does it let it buff faster? no, does it give a better chance that the buff actually lands? no, because buffs land 100%. What then does raising m.atk on SE does for it?
It increases the amount of hp healed (there are whole threads on this, depending on what the matk is before emp (i.e. what weapon/grade you have), the level of the heal and whether you use bsps or not, the increase can be anything from barely noticeable (like 10-20hp) up to 50-100 hp in optimum cases). It also greatly increases the chance of landing root, sleep, wind shackle and probably block shield.
When I buff myself, it pretty much depends on what kind of group I am in. Basic buffs I always give to myself are ww, emp, shield, conc plus an acumen pot, and maybe mental shield depending on the place we are in - that is for a group in which I am mainly healing/recharging. When I am in a small 3 person catacomb group where I actually "dd" myself, I of course give myself melee buffs, too.
Lastly, now I admit, I'm a noob buffer, my SO is yet to make lvl 30, but please explain what out of all the buffs that an SE has, what does increasing it's M.atk does for the SE?
I guess your SO is just tagging along you as box or playing primary in parties. But: there were a times, when SOs were able to solo let's say in Execution grounds. One day you find spell called "Disrupt undead" on your skill list, and if you buff yourself empower, gues what happens? Not only you are able to use your root more realiably because it lands with higher matk, but also ... you give more damage with dusrupt undead spell!
For al reasons stated here before me already and as well to keep an eye on the time left on buffs before the incoming next one. Why a SE, EE would buff him/herself the total of all it's buffs is a mystery to me...maybe a mistake (thinking he clicked someone) or else a macro (which is really stupid then).
As for the bsps I was told it didn't increase your healing points but the speed of casting...Naturally I ain't a trained SE yet
For al reasons stated here before me already and as well to keep an eye on the time left on buffs before the incoming next one. Why a SE, EE would buff him/herself the total of all it's buffs is a mystery to me...maybe a mistake (thinking he clicked someone) or else a macro (which is really stupid then).
As for the bsps I was told it didn't increase your healing points but the speed of casting...Naturally I ain't a trained SE yet
bsps increases heals (and, yes, speed) by a HUGE amount. Before C5, bsps was the difference betweeen a 800hp heal and a 1100 hp heal. Now in C5 it's a bit less, since the immediate heal part of the greater heals is smaller. But it still increases heals.
As for the buffing - it really depends on what the SE/EE is doing. If he is hitting the mobs, too, then it would be stupid not to use available buffs. If he's just healing/recharging then the buffs are of course not necessary and just a waste of mp.
Some people just buff everything off a macro... everything. It's sad.
Yup, I know. I once was in a party with some nukers and another SE. Because I was higher level, it was agreed that I recharge while the other SE buffed. And hooray, every buff round I received VR and Wild Magic on my SE... I told him that it was a waste of mp, and he answered "nah, don't want to change my macro". I don't want to know what his macros look like when one of them hands out nuker buffs plus VR, but no other melee buffs (so it was not a full buff macro, he deliberately chose these buffs...).
But it's not only SEs who can buff like an idiot, the same can be said for all other buffer classes in game. I just love prophets who give focus buff to nukers because it "increases magic crit rate" or who give so many crappy buffs like vitality, mental aegis (even though there are no bleeding/sleeping/rooting mobs around) and so on so that everybody gets buffed up to the last slot or even over it with bd+sws buffs.
Some people just buff everything off a macro... everything. It's sad.
The only reason why you should overbuff, is to trigger BTB from a staff.
Then you buff WW all the time, and no other buff when your done buffing to trigger it, why? Because it's the buff of yours who take the least MP.
And as for healer during raid, they really need every defensive buff they can get an hold on, not only that, they need everything they can get for cast speed and M.atk and HP/MP pool. More or less _Arigato_ Covered what healers need. And saying that eg they don't need defensive stuffs is wrong, thers ben a ton of times healers have just pulled aggro out of no where. Like _Arigato_ Himself with his PS last time we raided :P
Anyhow there will always be bad healers/buffers whatever in game, gladly I haven't' seen to many of them, I've encountered one EE I needed to tell to heal me or buff me or whatever she did nothing of that sort before being told... That party didn't last long I can say :P
Had an BD who never danced before being told.... well yeah. Bad tanks who don't use hate and DD's who always run off on there own.
They exist everywhere, and not just bound to healers. I have mostly problems with DD running around everywhere truthfully :) Like waking sleeping mobs when the group is hitting other things.
I have a SE, and I do buff myself.
*empower for slightly better heals, and root/sleep
*windwalk, so I can move fast and heal when the group move, to other room for example, or in the field.
*Shield, concentration and mental shield for my own protection if I get hate, from agro mobs or from overheal.
The SE should buff himself Empower, WW, and defensive buffs (e.g. Shield). But unless the SE is going to be hitting the mobs, that is about all he needs. I lol at the prophets that give themselves full mage/melee buffs and by the time they get to the last person in the party, they don't have enough mp to buff. And then they sit for 20 minutes, not even needing the buffs they gave themselves.
I lol at the prophets that give themselves full mage/melee buffs and by the time they get to the last person in the party, they don't have enough mp to buff
That's what happens to me, and that's why I stagger (when I'm in heavy).
However, I don't wind up sitting and not needing the buffs. I like getting up in the face of things and stabbing them. :p
SE's properly equipped can increase your raid killing speed if they actually atacked as well as buffed.
this is the reason why u see many SE in BW LIGHT and DUAL SLS. properly buffed in these equipment, a high level SE hardly need to heal in a normal raid. sitting down would be a waste. so might as well fight.
i like it when they chime in while fighting. it takes usually for my raid groups 10 minutes LESS time to kill the boss with SE buffed and fighting.
i am all for it if they come fight.
but i do see your argument; SE's that dont want to fight shouldnt be overbuffing i know and i concur.
I party mostly with DDs instead of a tank (as should a VR healer... wish I had it), so that should be a non-issue.
In any case, while I'm an active healer in standard PvE, I don't believe in getting up and whacking a boss a good one when I should be healing or recharging.
EE's and bishops don't get guidance, meaning you can end up missing a lot using a dagger. As for the original poster, EE's can pretty effectively buff themselves at raids. Clarity, Shield, WW, Bless Shield, Advanced Block, Resist Shock. Not a bad set. With those buffs on a level 30 toon, you can (for a while) tank a raid boss with a healer. Now that's fun. :)
:P as I mentioned last raid boss, we had our bishop tank for a while, we decided to let her die thought as it burned MP a bit to much :P same goes for _Arigato_ he managed to pull aggro magically to ^^. :P and he tanked for like 1 min LOL.
It however depence on the raid boss, some got just insane DPS.