I don't like the new event because Christmas is not named anywhere.
This is not "season" holiday, this is the celebration of Christ's nativity.
People who not believe, are free to not celebrate it, but why should we avoid even to call this feast with its real name?
Collection gifts and all the rest it's a bit meaningless in this way :mad:
Everybody has their thing , and their way. I just mentioned the few i could think off the top of my head. I personally just enjoy the season of people being happy and giving.
I personally just enjoy the season of people being happy and giving.
So much nicer than going out looking for something to be offended by...
It's not a matter of being offeneded, it's a matter of calling things with their name, and not being scared to do that.
Let the Africans and the Jewish call it as they wish, and let us call this feast with it's name too.
Why should people be happy and exchange gifts in this period, if not as a memory of the presents Jesus received when he was born?
That's why i think that without remembering this reason, collecting gifts looses all it's meaning.
I personally just enjoy the season of people being happy and giving.
So much nicer than going out looking for something to be offended by...
It's not a matter of being offeneded, it's a matter of calling things with their name, and not being scared to do that.
Let the Africans and the Jewish call it as they wish, and let us call this feast with it's name too.
Why should people be happy and exchange gifts in this period, if not as a memory of the presents Jesus received when he was born?
That's why i think that without remembering this reason, collecting gifts looses all it's meaning.
Hey, don't blame me because your god had the bad luck to be born on a pagan holiday. I know lots of kids that got screwed out of presents because their birthday was close to Christmas. Tough.
It's not a matter of being offeneded, it's a matter of calling things with their name, and not being scared to do that.
I couldn't agree more. But then realize that Christmas is an old PAGAN holy day. Santa has nothing to do with Christianity but is also something that got stolen from pagan beliefs. So i guess that you want them to have the event being based on the old pagan rituals? Sounds good to me.
I don't like the new event because Christmas is not named anywhere.
This is not "season" holiday, this is the celebration of Christ's nativity.
People who not believe, are free to not celebrate it, but why should we avoid even to call this feast with its real name?
Collection gifts and all the rest it's a bit meaningless in this way :mad:
:) they are prolly gonna shut this thread down. BUT before they do i give u props man (or woman) for stepping out and saying that. btw Matt. 7:13&14 just incase people callin u "close minded"
PS:sorry if that wasn't you're point but i thought it was cool.
Christmas is not a pagan holiday, it is a Religious holiday, pagan holidays are Halloween or Carnaval for example.
The fact that it coincides with feast called in other ways by religious minorties, does not change the fact that every nation has it's national religion, and if this is a celebration according to national religion, the Country where this game runs should call it its proper name.
Why don't you try to go to Islamic or Jewesh country and ask them to change the name of their religios feast because it is politically correct, and see what they answer you?
Don't be wrong and take this behaviour of avoiding to even "name" Christ as a sign of tolerance; it's just a sign of progressive loosing of the values that are the deepest part of our western civilization.
(i know that they are gonna close this thread soon, so i am writing as fast as i can :) )
This is not meant to be a slight, dont post here to give me [censored] because i wont answer, i just thought it was funny lol
For All My Democrat Friends:
"Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes
for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress,
non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice
holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious
persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with
respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of
others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions
at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and
medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally
accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the
calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society
have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily
greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western
Hemisphere. And without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical
ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee. By
accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms. This greeting
is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable
with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by
the wisher to actually implement any ! of the w ishes for herself or
himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable
at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform
as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of
one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting,
whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this
wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher"
For My Republican Friends:
Here's wishing all of You a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
This is not meant to be a slight, dont post here to give me [censored] because i wont answer, i just thought it was funny lol
For All My Democrat Friends:
"Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes
for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress,
non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice
holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious
persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with
respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of
others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions
at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and
medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally
accepted calendar year 2007, but not without due respect for the
calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society
have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily
greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western
Hemisphere. And without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical
ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee. By
accepting these greetings you are accepting these terms. This greeting
is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable
with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by
the wisher to actually implement any ! of the w ishes for herself or
himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law and is revocable
at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform
as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of
one year or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting,
whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this
wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher"
For My Republican Friends:
Here's wishing all of You a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Nice. Yeah screw all the politically correct nonsense. People are just to **** offended by everything.
Christmas is not a pagan holiday, it is a Religious holiday, pagan holidays are Halloween or Carnaval for example.
And that shows just how much you know. Xmas is indeed an old pagan holiday that got taken over by christianity. Look up your facts first. (And btw Halloween is not a pagan holiday, All Hallows Eve is^^)
And honestly if you are offended by that NCS has an event with christmas trees and santa hats and doesn't call it something christian thats your problem. Neither The trees or santa is something that comes from christian practice so whats the problem? Just don't play when the event is happening and you wont have to see the horrors of the event.
Why don't you try to go to Islamic or Jewesh country and ask them to change the name of their religios feast because it is politically correct, and see what they answer you?
Come on dude. This is a GAME. This is in a FICTIONAL land.
jesus wasnt born anywhere near christmas either way
you can blame the roman church for trying to add the cool factor to the religeon read more (http://www.locksley.com/6696/xmas.htm)
btw im christian and i dont celebrate christmas in the slightest
you wanna get really into this and you should be celebrateing jesus' birth everyday
I celebrate x-mas but am not at all religious, I like all the excitement, decorations, and I don't mind people wishing me a merry x-mas, a happy Chanukkah, or joyful quanza. I think there are room for all manner of festivities.
L2 is a bit different than RL for several reasons. For one, it is a worldwide game, and it isn't based in NA. Two, if you call it Christmas event, that doesn't alow people that celebrate other holidays to feel included.
That being said, I certainly don't want to start the L2 war on X-mas (**** O'reily) but the OP does actually have a point. Call it what you want, but the event focuses on the collection and assembling of Christmas tree parts. So it is already non-inclusive. Calling it a season or holiday event doesn't make it any less Christmas-like.
BUT
I did just a bit of research on Christmas in Korea, a very small bit, and I know a little about Japanese X-mas from classes and general interest. It is not so much a religious thing over there. Just a commercial holiday, probably doesn't cause so much of a stir to do a x-mas event over there. Doesn't really exclude anyone, or hold a heavily religious overtone, if any at all. And since this game is made in Korea and not here, I don't think we should be so uptight about it.
Here's wishing all of You a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Oh finally! first "Merry Christmas" i see in this thread.
It's not that i want to prevail, to have the right in this discussion or else. It's just that i feel so sad about all this, it would be far better if people who do not believe just avoided to celebrate at all.
But the fact is that we still celebrate Christmas, because, you like it or not, we have it in our tradition, i should say more, we have it in our souls, and we "feel" that really something special has happened in that famour day.
But, we change it's name, to be "modern", and "tollerant" with other minorities.
Say, do you really think that this makes any sense?
(Elrhoi, you cannot have my event drops because, as i said, i wll not take part to it :) )
lol guys i mean cmon l2 is a game remember GAME fun etc whats all these religious thing ? seriously chill out ppl i dont celebrate thanks giving either but thats has nothing to do with the event we have every year all for the fun++...after all if u dont like it dont participate !!
Here's wishing all of You a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Oh finally! first "Merry Christmas" i see in this thread.
It's not that i want to prevail, to have the right in this discussion or else. It's just that i feel so sad about all this, it would be far better if people who do not believe just avoided to celebrate at all.
But the fact is that we still celebrate Christmas, because, you like it or not, we have it in our tradition, i should say more, we have it in our souls, and we "feel" that really something special has happened in that famour day.
But, we change it's name, to be "modern", and "tollerant" with other minorities.
Say, do you really think that this makes any sense?
(Elrhoi, you cannot have my event drops because, as i said, i wll not take part to it :) )
Sorry c4t, but I believe you are the one in the wrong here. It is ppl like you that have helped perpetuate discrimination like that of the Middle East where ppl have been dieing for centuries for the lack of tolerance of others. I was brought up Christian and remember the teaching of tolerance and brotherhood for thy neighbor reguardless of race, sex, creed, age, or religion. Your actions and posts here show that you have a lack of tolerance for and discriminate against other religions. That in itself is a sin against the teachings of Christ and you should be ashamed of yourself.
Besides the true meaning of Christmas and the celebration of it has nothing to do with Santa, the elves, or decorated trees. These are all things that got added over the years with some of it being just comercial propaganda to make money off of the holiday season.
Since this is not a Christian game nor is it run by a Christian company that resides in a more non-Christian country I think they are more right then you are in the naming of the event. Remember this is a world of freedoms and rights. They have the right to celebrate the season how they wish, you have the right to celebrate it how you wish, and you both also have the right to ignore the other and keep your intolerance of others to yourself.
To all the Christians out there ---- Merry Christmas
To all the Jewish out there ---- Happy Hanukkah/Chanukah
To all the other religions and non-religious ppl out there ---- Happy Holidays
May you all celebrate in your own special way and find the happiness that this time of the year is all about. :D
I officially declare the official religion on the land of Elmoreaden will be Christianity. All follower of Eva, Shilden, Esianad and Paagiro will be burn alive
Christmas has merit and enjoyability just in its commercialised rites (and by that I mean to say 'I like getting presents'), no matter what they are about.
Tbh, make a proper solstice event and I think everyone will be happy.
PS: Trees, santa and elves are definitely part of the pagan holiday, which the Christians hijacked because they couldn't be bothered to teach the pagans to celebrate on a different day.
Not to bust anyones bubble, but there is actual proof that Jesus wasn't born in December, but rather sometime around March. Maline is 100% correct when she says that trees, elves, etc. etc. are related to paganism.
Also because this game is a game that anyone in the world can play that has a computer, that means that not eveyone is Christian and you should just get over it because Holiday includes eveyone but Christmas only includes those who celebrate it, generally christians. Be a bit more open minded and shed your fundamental mind...stop discrimination.
It is a Holiday because it is time off to remember, or celebrate whatever you belive in, even if it is just time off of work.
So have fun and enjoy your holiday, be in christmas or what have you. This should be a season of thanks, not one of complaints. :D
I am a christian pagan buddhist...and one who enjoys philosopy. In the end, religion is the all the same, and once people realize this they can get over the pety differences and start accepting each other and not killing each other, and finally do what most 'icons' of religion taught, which is tolerace and love.
[ I was brought up Christian and remember the teaching of tolerance and brotherhood for thy neighbor reguardless of race, sex, creed, age, or religion.
I perfectly agree with the above too.
My idea of tolerance is that minorities are completely free to celebrate their holidays in my Country, and call them as they like, while i am allowed to do the same, celebrate my holiday in my Country and call it with it's traditional name, and not feeling compelled to "change it's name" for a respect of those minorities.
And since , as i said above, this game runs in a Country with Christian as the National Religion, the feast should keep it's national name.
And again, yes this is just a game, and obvioulsy it has the relevance that it has, but I just took the chance to talk about this here because this phenomenon of "hiding" Jesus name is happening more and more everywhere, not only here, and i think ppl should be aware of what is going on.
Well, that's more or less all that i had to say on the subject: any further discussion would only degenerate in a war, not very suitable to Christmas itself.
Merry Christmas to all, believers and not, and forgive me if i was annoying or boring or meaningless to anyone.
c4t just accept that Christmas is a Holiday! Holiday is everything that is celebrated around this time, leaveing no one out!
Saying happy holidays is a way that a Jew can say to a Christian "merry christmas" without denying that he himself is Jewish. And still showing cheer and love...
Who fregging cares about religion, christmas is a holliday no mater what, I can enjoy it and belive 0% in god or whatever.
And also seriously, this servers is for NA/EU, and I can clearly say that the mayority of the peopels is christians of theos, and most celebrate.
if you don't want to take part of it, then dont, its simple as that, but Im gonna say it yet again, you dont need to belive in religion at all and still atend. My family and relatives is all non belivers, yet we celebrate chrismas, not becose of Jesus but becose it's a familiy tradition.
Well to be honest C4t I agree with you in a lot of ways concerning what's happening in the USA and all that. However you must realize that this game is really run by the Korean devs, not the Western gms (they have to defer ALL decisions to the Korean devs). Also since this game is worldwide in places where Christianity is NOT the official language, NCSoft is doing the smart thing in this. Since this event is made by the main hq and ran worldwide they needed to make it so that it's reconisable yet non-specific. Granted they fell rather short of the second part (as usual) but if they had named it Christmas they could actually get in real trouble for discrimination.
So instead they give it a generic name and use icons that are non-religious specific. Sorry to burst your bubble but santa, gifts, trees, and all that is not Christian based nor only used by them. To say, act, and lay claim to such is to be greedy and discriminate of the others.
Let's also not forget that L2 has so few decent events on the NA servers that we should be thankful for and make the best of what they do give us.
I don't like the new event because Christmas is not named anywhere.
It's because there is no such thing as "Christ" in L2 lore.
This is not "season" holiday, this is the celebration of Christ's nativity.
There is no "nativity" of Christ in L2.
People who not believe, are free to not celebrate it, but why should we avoid even to call this feast with its real name?
If you don't like that there is no "Christ" in L2, you are free not to participate in the event (or not to even play such "pagan" game at all). End of story.
And since , as i said above, this game runs in a Country with Christian as the National Religion, the feast should keep it's national name.
Uhm... the US has a national religion? Just wondering.
Also, Krissa is obviously right. :p
Also: Language and culture grows and changes - just look at the meaning of some words (gay, anyone?) ... you can not deny that Christmas is now also a holiday for capitalists like myself any more than you can deny that gay may still mean happy in some contexts, but mostly refers to homosexual these days.
Your holy day was gutted once to get Pagans to celebrate it, and now again in the name of commercialism. Stop trying to impose your view on it on others - celebrate it quietly to yourself, or leave it.
We have had this discussion before about bringing rl into this fantasy world.
L2 is not just one religion. If you consider this fact, then, we should be celebrating each races' secular events at the appropriate time for each. Though I believe Maphr will celebrate them all due to the fact that they will each bring monetary gains.
Not true. Jesus was not born in the middle of winter as has been taught in churches for over a thousand years. If I were a shepherd, I wouldn't be crazy enough to take my sheep out in the fields in the middle of a blizzard. The current Chistmas celebration is based around pagan customs used to draw in those people back during the Third or Fourth Century
Actually it isn't, Jesus was born somewhere in late spring, even the bible shows that because of the events.
Its placed on the 24/25th to usurb the Yule/Winter Solstice celebration. (Which btw, in the origional countries they still retain their seasonal names, it isn't called anything with "Christ"), so hell, if you want to get technical like that, we should rename them all to Yule Events.
Besides the true meaning of Christmas and the celebration of it has nothing to do with Santa, the elves, or decorated trees. These are all things that got added over the years with some of it being just comercial propaganda to make money off of the holiday season.
Actually, those things predates the Christian tradition. And they weren't "elves" either, they just got translated to that because there wasn't an equalent english word, so they went with Alfer, which translated into Elves eventually. Heck, in northern europe there are no "Santas Elves", they're still the old kind of "Nisser", which are kind of like house spirits that looks like tiny dwarves and live with Santa as well. They got made into Garden Gnomes in the US, lol :p
True; anyone that thinks Shepherds are going to be out in the fields with their flocks at this time of year is nuts. It snows in Bethlehem around this time of year, for those that aren't aware of it.
Yes, and that cold temperature in Israel prolly runs around 15+ Celcius?
Snow blizzards in Israel? I can hardly beleive these are regular events down there...