Hi
I just tried the 10 day free trial for wow and found things I like alot better then L2
1.The world it's a much more living place with animals NPC ect.
The races are well defined and Alliance Hord conflict is well done <hint we can do the same thing on l2 men le dwarves agaist de orcs.
I also like the time in WOW 1hr=1 real hour game time and they have a calender for event like holidays ect.
Don't know if they have seasons have not notice any weather yet.
2.Quests they are more intressing and the rewards are equal to the effort.
3.I been playing a mage and the spell system is much better
also what is nice is the skill everybody can learn to craft or gather stuff or cook ect you can do other things rather then grind.
4.Economy it does not seem run by ebay/dwarves! since everybody can craft and most stuff is avliable at the npc<at least of my lvl>all prices seem very resonable compared equivalent stuff in l2.
Also seems to be alot less bots <they might be there but you don't see 9men groups takeing all the mobs>
5.Home area Inns where you rest.
6.also food and drink seems more realistic to eat & drink to gain health/mana.
7.Items looks alot like it was taken from diablo <great items>
and finding useful stuff as loot is nice to get stuff not have to grind days weeks months to get a full drop ;)
Things I like about L2 better
1.graphics L2 looks better <although I never had WOW crash like L2>
2.The Guilds & People are better on L2 i guess becuse L2 world is a harsher world people band together.
3.expantions are free <this is a big one hat rebuying the game every 6 months ;)>
In conclusion L2 has better people <what few real people there are :p> WOW has better world and game system.
I don't know which one I like better I like playing WOW but I like being a part of L2 :( will place both this month and decide at sub time ;)
1. The self-defined fractions of L2 are one of the major attractions of the game. I love being able to play with all the people I like regardless of race - and pre-defined factions are always a slap to the face for RPers.
2. Lineage quests are mostly not a requirement (almost every time someone has to do a quest, they remember why they are so grateful for the otherwisely unobstrusive quest system). Yes, some quest rewards could be better. But there are some very good quests, too.
3. Can't say anything about this at all. But yes, L2 gameplay is beyond sucky.
4. The economy on WoW doesn't exist by all accounts I've heard... an auction house? The L2 economy is player driven. Most of the players getting really rich are dwarves, true - but this is not because they're dwarves, but rather because people who like making money are more likely to make a dwarf. On a whole, the economy in L2 is self-fixing and currently fine.
5.) Would be very nice, yup. "I want this pub open!"
6.) Realistic seems lying down to have an eight hour sleep period (that's one hour every four hours in game, by the way), being found by mobs in your sleep, slaughtered and never waking up again. :o There's a limit to where realism is good - food healing items are one of them. Besides, how many bananas can YOU eat without getting sick?
If WoW appeals to you more, play WoW. If L2 appeals to you more, play L2. Between these two it's less of a question of quality (they both have incredibly large pitfalls), but more of a question of personal preference.
and pre-defined factions are always a slap to the face for RPers.
Sorry Maline, I disagree with this. You really need to read Stravinsky's Poetics of music. There is a section where he talks about limitations on any art from actually setting the artist free.
I highly agree with this.
What would happen if you were in an acting class and you had to create a scene but in the scene you were given 5 things you must accomplish.
I belong to a Composer's group where we had an exercise where we could only say 5 lines and we had to accomplish several things in those 5 lines.
That's where creativity comes into play.
To OP: yeah, there are some really nice things in WoW. They did great job creating a game that caters to the average Joe player. One thing I like about that game is that every detail is covered. Sure, people might not like the graphics (me) and not like the pvp or the ease in leveling but I find it hard to take away from their work as the world has a very finished and well crafted feel.
The L2 world never had that for me.
However, the nature of L2 makes things a bit more "serious" (as much as a game can be serious) and a lot more epic.
But I suppose that is because games like WoW are more like Amusement parks where you ride the "rides" where in L2 it is a bit more like living it.
If you want to role play warring factions, it's not an issue; it's when you have two characters that from a role playing perspective grew up together, that have never allowed their differences to come between them, that a game like WoW is what Maline describes. It makes no sense, unless you role play them as mercenaries. I read a book years ago that this happens in; if you can find a copy of Elizabeth Moon's Sheepfarmer's Daughter, which is book one of the epic story The Deed of Paksenarion, I would suggest reading it.
pre-defined factions are always a slap to the face for RPers.
Not to this RPer, and not to a lot of others I spoke about it (some of them are playing WoW, too).
What is a slap to the face for RPers is lack of internal consistency. In WoW's case, it's the facts that you can't attack your own faction and that you can't talk to the other faction that are causing the RPers to have problems WoW's two factions system.
The restriction is there - you have the in game lore to work with on the fact that there is conflict. The EE here twitches every time he has dealings with dark elves.
But faction systems (which almost always involve inability to party and/or talk, even for a common cause) aren't just a limitation or constricton - they're a brick wall. You can work with such a restriction, but in terms of trying to roleplay when the population for such is already thin enough in most games, it usually means roleplayers will flock to the same faction or a lot of OOC arrangement will be necessary.
But faction systems (which almost always involve inability to party and/or talk, even for a common cause) aren't just a limitation or constricton - they're a brick wall.
Not necessarily - just WoW's implementation thereof is.
WoW is a good game, no doubt about it. But for some reason I got bored of it after playing for ~4 months. I kept playing for about another month then I quit and went back to L2. Sure, L2 has it flaws, but I can't stop playing it. ^^ I love my gimped little TK ^_^
Hi
I just tried the 10 day free trial for wow and found things I like alot better then L2
1.The world it's a much more living place with animals NPC ect.
The races are well defined and Alliance Hord conflict is well done <hint we can do the same thing on l2 men le dwarves agaist de orcs.
I also like the time in WOW 1hr=1 real hour game time and they have a calender for event like holidays ect.
Don't know if they have seasons have not notice any weather yet.
2.Quests they are more intressing and the rewards are equal to the effort.
3.I been playing a mage and the spell system is much better
also what is nice is the skill everybody can learn to craft or gather stuff or cook ect you can do other things rather then grind.
4.Economy it does not seem run by ebay/dwarves! since everybody can craft and most stuff is avliable at the npc<at least of my lvl>all prices seem very resonable compared equivalent stuff in l2.
Also seems to be alot less bots <they might be there but you don't see 9men groups takeing all the mobs>
5.Home area Inns where you rest.
6.also food and drink seems more realistic to eat & drink to gain health/mana.
7.Items looks alot like it was taken from diablo <great items>
and finding useful stuff as loot is nice to get stuff not have to grind days weeks months to get a full drop ;)
Things I like about L2 better
1.graphics L2 looks better <although I never had WOW crash like L2>
2.The Guilds & People are better on L2 i guess becuse L2 world is a harsher world people band together.
3.expantions are free <this is a big one hat rebuying the game every 6 months ;)>
In conclusion L2 has better people <what few real people there are :p> WOW has better world and game system.
I don't know which one I like better I like playing WOW but I like being a part of L2 :( will place both this month and decide at sub time ;)
you do realize that in every game that you look at, there will be stuff you like better then other games right? So what is the point of this? I can go to some random small mmo and probably find something I like better then L2 or any other game.
I agree on alot of those points. For me the crafting system, the versitilaty of the armors (not just a solid set-only bonus), npc guards that actually attack mobs that get too close (how many have wished the guards would save them while running into town in the old days?), the skill and traits tree, and the auction house (still player driven since players set the prices and bid on them, think of ebay but inside the game) just to name a few.
For me the downfall wasn't the graphics nor the instanced dungeons, not even the faction system. I could work with all of that and not have much problem. For me it was the lack of a really in-depth community, guilds not really meaning squat to overall gameplay, no form of territory control (this was big draw of L2), and the lack of massive ammounts of high content tied to the extreme ease in leveling. (nothing to do at max lvl other then reroll another toon and go on pvp raids) In the end it was the ppl and the politics of clan vs clan/ally vs ally that kept drawing me back to this game. I live to die in pvp..... err I mean I live to kill in pvp, yah that's what I meant. :p
If someone were to combine the best of both of these games and have the support that we all would like to see in-game, then we would have a game that would kill all other fantasy mmo's out there.
Hi
I just tried the 10 day free trial for wow and found things I like alot better then L2
1.The world it's a much more living place with animals NPC ect.
The races are well defined and Alliance Hord conflict is well done <hint we can do the same thing on l2 men le dwarves agaist de orcs.
I also like the time in WOW 1hr=1 real hour game time and they have a calender for event like holidays ect.
Don't know if they have seasons have not notice any weather yet.
2.Quests they are more intressing and the rewards are equal to the effort.
3.I been playing a mage and the spell system is much better
also what is nice is the skill everybody can learn to craft or gather stuff or cook ect you can do other things rather then grind.
4.Economy it does not seem run by ebay/dwarves! since everybody can craft and most stuff is avliable at the npc<at least of my lvl>all prices seem very resonable compared equivalent stuff in l2.
Also seems to be alot less bots <they might be there but you don't see 9men groups takeing all the mobs>
5.Home area Inns where you rest.
6.also food and drink seems more realistic to eat & drink to gain health/mana.
7.Items looks alot like it was taken from diablo <great items>
and finding useful stuff as loot is nice to get stuff not have to grind days weeks months to get a full drop ;)
Things I like about L2 better
1.graphics L2 looks better <although I never had WOW crash like L2>
2.The Guilds & People are better on L2 i guess becuse L2 world is a harsher world people band together.
3.expantions are free <this is a big one hat rebuying the game every 6 months ;)>
In conclusion L2 has better people <what few real people there are :p> WOW has better world and game system.
I don't know which one I like better I like playing WOW but I like being a part of L2 :( will place both this month and decide at sub time ;)
To start this, I just recently quit WoW after playing both L2 and WoW for the past year. I started off play causally, and then got into an end-game guild and downed KT, so I'm not gonna be just saying things outta my [censored] =p
1. Not sure what you mean by a well-defined faction pvp. I mean if you acutally look into the background story not all factions of the alliance are warring with the horde, the alliance located in theramore should acutally be friendly to some of the horde (as they worked together in defending the world tree at the end of WC3). The Forsaken are allied with the horde?? That doesn't quite make sense, I think they just had to come up with something for a 4th race and couldn't find anything else.
2. I'll agree with this one.
3. What do you mean by the spell system is nicer? I don't really see how it's that different from L2's (cast time, spell casts, can be inturuptted (sp)) Yes.. you can craft with blacksmithing, leatherworking, and tailoring.. if you like crap. Barely any of those crafting professions are good, there's very few good plans /patterns in there. So yes, everyone can craft.. but there's hardly anything worth crafting compared to what you can get through many of the 5-man instances.
4. Depending on what aspects of the economy you're looking at, it's completely run by farmers/ebay. Go to any of the end-zones like EPL, Felwood, Burning Steepes and you'll find at least 6+ farmers in each zone mining all the nodes, picking herbs, or grinding mobs. The auction house is full of herbs overpriced and farmed by the chinas.
Botting is fairly uncommon to see (due to the amount of obscure places people can level at), but still exists.
5. Not sure what this would do for L2? (are you refering to rested exp)?
6. I guess so? I don't know, with herbs it's not that much of a problem anymore.
7. This changes alot at level 60, it took my guild over a month of farming 4 horsemen before we finally got a the rogue/warrior Tier 3 chestpiece token. The difference between gear of a fresh 60 and a naxx farming guide is just stupid. At least in L2 players can farm solo and will have a chance at getting A grade armor. In WoW it would be impossible for anyone to get gear solo.
It took me 4 months of Naxx to get 5/9 Tier 3 on my priest before I quit, I had to put in 5 hours every night raiding for 4 months to do this. Not to mention the countless hours of farming to prepare beforehand and having to compete with the china's in getting to herb spawns before for consumables.
Can't say I've had L2 crash often on me really (maybe twice), and never had WoW crash.
Actually I like everything about L2 more than WoW except one thing.
Reward vs. Time! L2 doesn't reward properly for the time put into the game... Oh yea, and some more interesting quests with proper rewards would be great!
Yeah, some of the things mentioned that I think WoW has over L2 are more organic environments. With creatures and NPC's about doing their daily routines. L2 has an NPC or two in the starter towns kinda roaming around, but it just looks weird and out of place.
I also prefer the faction-based pvp, because it gives purpose to the violence and makes it seem less random. For me, it makes it more satisfying as a ganker and less frustrating as the gankee. I'd rather get stomped for being different than get ganked because some jerkass little kid is trying to get his jollies.
Beyond that, WoW holds no interest for me. All the tie-in merch must be nice, though.
I also prefer the faction-based pvp, because it gives purpose to the violence and makes it seem less random. For me, it makes it more satisfying as a ganker and less frustrating as the gankee. I'd rather get stomped for being different than get ganked because some jerkass little kid is trying to get his jollies.
O.o you will rather kill some DE who you never saw before becouse you are LE. And not go gank the people who sighned to help you defend your's castle and tryed to crest if for themcelf or someone who ninjad droped loot of a clanie back when you could still drop 100-200m worth of stuff being white? :confused:
Just got skill in wow that is lot of fun polymorph!
Some big bad beast is chomping at your leg turn it into a sheep!
Lots of fun and makes you feel like a mage should little things like that is what L2 is missing ;)
Actually I like everything about L2 more than WoW except one thing.
Reward vs. Time! L2 doesn't reward properly for the time put into the game... Oh yea, and some more interesting quests with proper rewards would be great!
refer to the 2nd part of #7 i posted =p
Raiding 5 nights a week for 5 hours + time included farming for consumables (think about 20+ hours a week on the server i played on) and try telling me reward vs time is better in WoW
I also prefer the faction-based pvp, because it gives purpose to the violence and makes it seem less random. For me, it makes it more satisfying as a ganker and less frustrating as the gankee. I'd rather get stomped for being different than get ganked because some jerkass little kid is trying to get his jollies.
O.o you will rather kill some DE who you never saw before becouse you are LE. And not go gank the people who sighned to help you defend your's castle and tryed to crest if for themcelf or someone who ninjad droped loot of a clanie back when you could still drop 100-200m worth of stuff being white? :confused:
I was talking about open pvp, it kinda goes without saying that siege pvp owns all. Sieges aren't the only place I come into conflict with other players, maybe your experiences differ.
I stand by what I said though, I prefer faction pvp.
I also prefer the faction-based pvp, because it gives purpose to the violence and makes it seem less random. For me, it makes it more satisfying as a ganker and less frustrating as the gankee. I'd rather get stomped for being different than get ganked because some jerkass little kid is trying to get his jollies.
O.o you will rather kill some DE who you never saw before becouse you are LE. And not go gank the people who sighned to help you defend your's castle and tryed to crest if for themcelf or someone who ninjad droped loot of a clanie back when you could still drop 100-200m worth of stuff being white? :confused:
I was talking about open pvp, it kinda goes without saying that siege pvp owns all. Sieges aren't the only place I come into conflict with other players, maybe your experiences differ.
I stand by what I said though, I prefer faction pvp.
if you could find any open pvp in WoW =p
since the introduction of BGs in WoW, there's hardly been any open PvP, except for the random "oh [censored], there's a 40 man raid about to zone into naxx and they're going to steamroll me" hardly counts as pvp.
most of the time even if you do find someone, they'll just ignore you and run away.
I had no difficulty finding trouble in WoW, it helps if you play on a pvp server. =P Every hunt I'd unintentionally encounter and chase down at least six people who wandered out further than they should have. Maybe I'm just lucky.
Past level 30, nobody really goes past anyone and ganks them just because.
What server is this? It sounds like a lovely change of pace. :)
Actually I like everything about L2 more than WoW except one thing.
Reward vs. Time! L2 doesn't reward properly for the time put into the game... Oh yea, and some more interesting quests with proper rewards would be great!
refer to the 2nd part of #7 i posted =p
Raiding 5 nights a week for 5 hours + time included farming for consumables (think about 20+ hours a week on the server i played on) and try telling me reward vs time is better in WoW
Think 5 hours 5% and loosing money to have the luxury to level that fast. Then talk to me about rewards, lol.
Eveyone knows that WoW is marketed as a causal game that any gamer could get into. You can play casual games hardcore but it is much harder to play hardcore games causal. L2 is marketed as hardcore.
I just tried the 14 day free trial for EVE-Online and found things I like alot better then L2
The space combat is much better in EVE than in Lineage2.
The pictures of the races are much more customizeable than in L2.
The Security System for the different systems is much better as a protection for PvEers vs. PvPers.
The Mission system is much better than the quest system of Lineage2.
EVE is cheaper than Lineage2.
The learning system of EVE allows me to learn skills, while I am offline.
...
...
...
You might wonder, why I do play Lineage2 and not EVE ?
Because I want to play Lineage2 for what it is and do not want to play some other game.
Do not tell a Poker player to go play Roulette or vice versa and do not try to turn Poker into Roulette.
*looks at the forum section, reads that it is labeled GENERAL DISCUSSION* (hint hint sarcastic kitten)
Perhaps you've heard of the idea of simply discussing things we find interesting? No? Perhaps you should get out more.
The idea of this section and this post is not to say "we should make this apple an orange". It's simply to come together and say "hey I saw this the other day and thought it was kinda neat so I'd share". Thus the idea of general, being of anything and nothing at the same time, and discussion, to talk about it and share it with others to see what they think.
What we are all doing here in this thread is actually what the game designers do in all games, especially mmo's. They get together to discuss ideas, sometimes inspired from a competitor. This how games continue to change and evolve in order to keep players playing and to attract new players. They take what works and what doesn't work and try to find a happy balance that fits in with the original idea and with what the players are asking for. This leads to a 3 way balance, new ideas, game core, and player wants. To survive they need to find a happy balance between the three and discussions like these help them find that balance.
So keep discussing and let the naysayers just keep being naysayers who will add nothing but negativity to threads.
I came to lineage from Guild Wars, which although I really liked, just lost hands down to L2. The whole look of L2 is gorgeous, not only that but I just felt the gameplay of L2 more suited to me. GWs just seemed full of kids, or people dancing their way around the main area trying to pick up chicks/guys. Yuk, some subtlety please, lol.
Dungeons and Dragons, forget that one, I couldnt get to grips with it at all. Everquest same response.
Its different strokes for different folks. But I agree, its great to have people discussing this, because it helps the game to evolve.
One thing I would like to see taken from other games, is the opportunity to do a little more customisation to the look of my chars. Im a woman, what do you expect? lol
1. Not sure what you mean by a well-defined faction pvp. I mean if you acutally look into the background story not all factions of the alliance are warring with the horde, the alliance located in theramore should acutally be friendly to some of the horde (as they worked together in defending the world tree at the end of WC3). The Forsaken are allied with the horde?? That doesn't quite make sense, I think they just had to come up with something for a 4th race and couldn't find anything else.
Well, within the nightelvs campain you fought against the Horde, just the last mission was some kind of temp. ally :) Also Nightelves and Tauren are still a bit allied, try to play a druid. The forsaken are, well, kind of allied. As an undead ya got a good rep to undercity, but a kind of low rep to the other cities. Other horde races got a overall good rep, but a bad one to undercity. They dont trust them in some points. Also the forsaken are lead by Sylvanas Windrunner, who were a Elv before she was forced to life as undead by Arthas. So I think its ok if they "make use of the horde" to slay the lich king.
3. What do you mean by the spell system is nicer? I don't really see how it's that different from L2's (cast time, spell casts, can be inturuptted (sp)) Yes.. you can craft with blacksmithing, leatherworking, and tailoring.. if you like crap. Barely any of those crafting professions are good, there's very few good plans /patterns in there. So yes, everyone can craft.. but there's hardly anything worth crafting compared to what you can get through many of the 5-man instances.
I kind of agree. Crafting in WoW is most times just crap ya get some money off in the start. In the end, tailoring is needed for big bagpacks, also enchanting is kind of needed and ofc alchemy (without high lvl potions ya cant do some high end raids well). Nothin applys to L2, since we enchant with scrolls and use buffs instead of potions. Our bagpacks become bigger by fishing. All other proffesions have maybe 3 out of 100 good items and are not worth the efford.
4. Depending on what aspects of the economy you're looking at, it's completely run by farmers/ebay. Go to any of the end-zones like EPL, Felwood, Burning Steepes and you'll find at least 6+ farmers in each zone mining all the nodes, picking herbs, or grinding mobs. The auction house is full of herbs overpriced and farmed by the chinas.
Botting is fairly uncommon to see (due to the amount of obscure places people can level at), but still exists.
Yes, WoW got plenty of bots, you just dont notice them the way you do in L2.
5. Not sure what this would do for L2? (are you refering to rested exp)?
It would do nothing. Rested exp in WoW is for players who cant play every day. L2 is more of a hardcore game, not just for 3hours/week (that goes to the OP).
7. This changes alot at level 60, it took my guild over a month of farming 4 horsemen before we finally got a the rogue/warrior Tier 3 chestpiece token. The difference between gear of a fresh 60 and a naxx farming guide is just stupid. At least in L2 players can farm solo and will have a chance at getting A grade armor. In WoW it would be impossible for anyone to get gear solo.
It took me 4 months of Naxx to get 5/9 Tier 3 on my priest before I quit, I had to put in 5 hours every night raiding for 4 months to do this. Not to mention the countless hours of farming to prepare beforehand and having to compete with the china's in getting to herb spawns before for consumables.
I so much agree. End-game in WoW is just bossrun a instance to hope for a drop. And if it really drops, you need a lot of dkp sometimes (dkp=dragon kill points, a system run by players, the more often you join a raidparty the more points you get, using them to bid for you item. If ya dont raid everyday for like 4 hours you wont have enough points and some other player simply overbid you).
L2 endgame means grinding. WoW max lvl is so easy, but endgame means countless runs through instances just to hope to get a item droped (and hope noone will overbid ya on it). Else you "farm" reputation with battlegrounds to get items from NPC fractions and honor to get a pvp armor set (and both is much more farming then farming in L2 I think). I bought WoW the day it was released in germany. Got to max lvl in less then 3 month. Got bored by the endgame and switched back to L2.
Interesting subject !
I also tried the 10-day WoW trial, but in the end i decided to stick to L2 (obviously, otherwise i wouldnt be here :p)
The races are well defined and Alliance Hord conflict is well done <hint we can do the same thing on l2 men le dwarves agaist de orcs.
The Races are very well defined in L2 i think, if you go through the Lore and everything, but yes i do agree that there could be a Race-vs-Race event sometime, that'd be awesome !
Quests they are more intressing and the rewards are equal to the effort.
Oh yes, no doubt about that !
L2 quests suck big time, and the "rewards" are just laughable :mad:
(which is too bad because most of the time the quest background is very well-written)
also what is nice is the skill everybody can learn to craft or gather stuff or cook ect you can do other things rather then grind.
Hm not sure about that, i kinda like the fact that Dwarves are the best crafters, i find it more "realistic" (in a RPG point of view :))
Economy it does not seem run by ebay/dwarves! [...] most stuff is avliable at the npc<at least of my lvl>all prices seem very resonable compared equivalent stuff in l2.
Here too, absolutely no doubt about that !
Although i know most people disagree with me on that, L2 economy really sucks, the awful way it's designed is 100% responsible for the bots and for most of my previous high-level friends quitting the game because they couldnt compete with ebayers (fortunately i now have found new friends here :))
Home area Inns where you rest.
This is a nice idea, i dont remember seeing this when i played the trial, but yes, nice idea and good RP possibilities (and what about Player-owned Houses ? :p)
All in all, i do think that L2 is a better game, otherwise like i said i wouldnt be playing it, but we could certainly use some of the above stuff to make it even better and more fun to play :)
*looks at the forum section, reads that it is labeled GENERAL DISCUSSION* (hint hint sarcastic kitten)
Perhaps you've heard of the idea of simply discussing things we find interesting? No? Perhaps you should get out more.
The idea of this section and this post is not to say "we should make this apple an orange". It's simply to come together and say "hey I saw this the other day and thought it was kinda neat so I'd share". Thus the idea of general, being of anything and nothing at the same time, and discussion, to talk about it and share it with others to see what they think.
What we are all doing here in this thread is actually what the game designers do in all games, especially mmo's. They get together to discuss ideas, sometimes inspired from a competitor. This how games continue to change and evolve in order to keep players playing and to attract new players. They take what works and what doesn't work and try to find a happy balance that fits in with the original idea and with what the players are asking for. This leads to a 3 way balance, new ideas, game core, and player wants. To survive they need to find a happy balance between the three and discussions like these help them find that balance.
So keep discussing and let the naysayers just keep being naysayers who will add nothing but negativity to threads.
I think other people have said the point I'm trying to make here.
It's that there's many different MMOs out there. Certain features of MMOs cater to a certain type of playerbase.
Just because of the fact that WoW has such a huge playerbase does not necessarily mean certain features in the game will mesh with another one very well, nor does it mean the game is overall superior to another.
Once you start using ideas from another game to cater to a certain type of player (to attract more customers). You may end up losing what gives the current game it's unique identity, and from that some of the customers that played the game for that reason.
This applies to almost any game in any genre out there.
I think this is also one of the main reasons you're seeing such a negative reaction here is that once you introduce elements that will have a decent impact on the current game, it could have a very negative backlash on many long-time players.
Why do you play L2? Because there's features to L2 that you enjoy, and that you can identify with. Of course, no one (well not many people) will like all the features of L2 and I'm sure many players would like to see changes made to make it better. But, you can't make a game that's perfect for everyone, nor can anyone expect to find a game that's just "perfect" for them. The reason one plays is because overall, you enjoy playing it, and like the game how it is. If you liked what WoW offered more than L2 you wouldn't even be here right now, you'd be playing WoW right now..
WoW has gameplay / style / features / whatever that many gamers like. Does this mean that all games should be this way or take their ideas, short answer is no.
Long answer is.. yes, features of WoW will definitely be used in games coming out in the FUTURE (if it ain't broke, don't fix it), but other established MMOs should not make any major changes just because of the success of another game because of the risk in that move that may make the game because something else than previously perceived.
Think 5 hours 5% and loosing money to have the luxury to level that fast. Then talk to me about rewards, lol.
Maitreya: I would rather see a change in-game for a reward than to go "yay, i have more DKP to spend on items that may or may never drop for me to get"
At least seeing a 5% increase in exp is something noticeable in-game rather than just some number on a website you use to get loot (which you don't get all that often =p)
L2 endgame means grinding. WoW max lvl is so easy, but endgame means countless runs through instances just to hope to get a item droped (and hope noone will overbid ya on it). Else you "farm" reputation with battlegrounds to get items from NPC fractions and honor to get a pvp armor set (and both is much more farming then farming in L2 I think). I bought WoW the day it was released in germany. Got to max lvl in less then 3 month. Got bored by the endgame and switched back to L2.
Yes, before the latest patch it would on average take someone about 2-3 months straight of PvP grinding to reach Grand Marshall. PvPing every single day for at least 12 hours (if not more depending on queue times / server population / amount of other people pvping / etc) is definitely not a fun grind. I got up to Field Marshall on my priest and just stopped because I couldn't take it anymore.
I think I already went over the PvE grind in a previous post =p
Edit: Just realized I should have said the end-game PvE grind. The 1-60 grind is a joke =p
Once you start using ideas from another game to cater to a certain type of player (to attract more customers). You may end up losing what gives the current game it's unique identity, and from that some of the customers that played the game for that reason.
This is very true, and this is exactly what happened to SWG :confused:
But, there's nothing wrong (imo) in using some inspiration from some successful other MMO, as long as you keep the uniqueness of this particular game. And, even if some of the "Elders" here may not like it, this is indeed what the development team from L2 is doing, with each Chronicle the game is a bit more casual-friendly :)
I agree, most idiots here just keep chanting "WoW suckorz, good riddance carebear", when really,Blizzard has some great ideas, and does many things much better than L2. Such as raids, class balance, world that feels alive, and yes, a better economy because ebay is a non factor (for the most part)
I agree, most idiots here just keep chanting "WoW suckorz, good riddance carebear", when really,Blizzard has some great ideas, and does many things much better than L2. Such as raids, class balance, world that feels alive, and yes, a better economy because ebay is a non factor (for the most part)
actually, it's fun the first time around. but its so incredibly easy and soft that the fun part gets old after a month, maybe 2... after your first hits level cap (took about a month for me, and not rushing either) there is NOTHING to do but reroll to the opposing faction and learn the different newbie quests/areas.
the 2 sides of horde/alliance both have the same endgame, you memorize an instance and then you farm it ONLY for drops, because you are at level cap and the top gear is drop only, no chance to craft it. the "pvp" is awful and goes stale so fast it's so disgusting :p mass of random players vs 2nd mass of random players, most of which are 8 years old and COMPLETE idiots. and you will suffer for thier stupidity as rewards are dependant on group effort... imagine a castle siege with only kindergarten kids participating, and not a one listening to your appointed 'leader'. only way around it is to find a pvp oriented guild that plays together(you will have to sign up and wait sickening length of times, 16+ hours to get in if you attempt it as a group esp alliance side as the 2 factions are terribly unbalanced, no joke) - and even then its not guaranteed you'll get tossed in together. btw, thats the part that destroyed that game for me >.> disgusting.
The PvP queue times aren't too bad now since the new cross-realm BGs, but really it just created a huge influx of idiots in the battlegrounds. (Not only do you deal with your server's idiots, you now get to deal with other server's!)
The PvP queue times aren't too bad now since the new cross-realm BGs, but really it just created a huge influx of idiots in the battlegrounds. (Not only do you deal with your server's idiots, you now get to deal with other server's!)
sounds like a whole lotta fun, no more wait to play with ******s yay! .... ill keep L2 as it is ty :)
ITS FREE!
well....not free you have to pay for the game
but theres no subscription costs and its about the same type of gameplay.
well/.....depending i cant say better or worse...judge it your self
but try it before you get into another subscription game during your soul searching......
i did same thing. i think it was the pointless pvp in wow that turned me off. it is fun game but there is no consequence to dying in pvp. fought horde one day for hrs, rezzed at grave yard and went at it again. got boring. even though the horde where my nephews. l2 the world gets boring but the pvp never does.
guild wars is not a good game. played it for abit but it more like a mmorpg for kids out of pre-school. i think we could rate the mmorpgs as follows: guild wars for 5-12 year olds, WOW for 12- maybe 15, and when you mature ( or digress )enough to appriciate a good PVP game L2. All my high school nephews play WOW and think its great. Then they graduate..
I'd hardly call it a MMO.. since all the PvE and PvP is instanced.. the only reason it's "MMO" is because the "lobby" area is full of players and that's about it.
Ok I am now lvl 10 in wow here are some things that L2 and equiv WOW stuff
1.Basic world WOW wins the world is a living place has weather animals and npcs that do stuff.
L2 looks better but WOW world is more dynamic.
2.Character delopment WOW wins again I ma 10th lvl mage I have more skills and more intressting choises to play in WOW I just don't shoot mob i can look for plants do alchemy fish cook make a fire for my buds to realax my 10th lvl character has more depth then my 56 lvl mage!
Also my spells are alot more varied I have aoe Ice spell that is equiv to aoe sleep and does not take 1hr to cast ;)
I have 3 diffrent types of fire spell and 2 diffrent types of frost spells I have armour spells and also I am starting to get talents that modifiy my spell effect.
Also I find scrolls that i can scribe in my spell book.
I don't know for melee type but I feel more like a mage in WOW :p
3.PVP here I think WOW is better if you see a enemy you can kill him no penealty you can't gank sombody on your side unless he agrees to duel no 50 lvl people ganking starting areas..and you can see his lvl ect...so you know if it's a good match and if you do pvp you get rewards for it !
I Like the clan system from L2 better though this is one thing L2 does better then WOW
5.Items WOW is better I like the idea of item durability.
Everybody does not have the same set I like the diabloisk rareity system.
Also something neat there is a craffted by tag so if you are a great warsmith people can see who it is !
6.ECONOMY! :) Big one I thing WOW is hell of alot better
While there is a player market you aren't spamed by dwarves everytime you go into a town.
Also while there might be bots & ebay it's not so noticeable becuse of the auction house and npc to keep prices resonable and since everybody can craft repair it is not run by DWARVEN GREED! i don't see ebay inflaition you can find what you need or can hunt in since the mobs have full drops.
7.transport WOW wins you can get mounts for resonable prices or use spells cool thing is player mages can learn teleport spells :p
Also something I love Gryphen rides between towns takes a bit longer then tele but it's verry impressive flying over the land :)
8.QUEST WOW wins again it's another big one so far there is verry little grind your always qesting in wow and the reward make sense do sothing for a farmmer you get food do somthing for the lord you get money & rank do somthing for tradesman you get a item money.
Also you get rep with the diffrent factions in the world.
What faction do I have no idea yet but looks like somthing out of the elder scrolls games i you piss off a faction they migh KOS or not deal with you and if you get good with a faction they might give you stuff ;)
I find WOW has more RPG feel rather the quest for the biggest purse and L2 does not do that well either ;)
9.territory propety ect. well I guess L2 does that better although all of it is owend by EBAY/BOTS/DWARVES it like the idea of clan halls castles ect but in practise only Bots & ebayer clans get them who else can afford the billions of ad that the dwarves demand for stuff to get them or paying billions for a ch
While WOW does have somthing simular to a ch the inn a place where you can get food/dirnk heal and other services benifets.
I don't think WOW has any ownable castles yet.
Again I think WOW is a better game but the people of L2 are better ;)
Now if we can take the best of wow and add it to L2 get rid of bot farmmers and cheaters then maybe L2 or it's heir might be the best game ever !
If you think WoW is a better game, then GO of L2 and it's forums and go play it.
You're an idiot for even posting this here, because those of us that play L2 do it by choice we like L2 better. It's not because we have never heard of WoW.
So run along and get back to the kiddy game with the cartoon graphics.
6.ECONOMY! Big one I thing WOW is hell of alot better
While there is a player market you aren't spamed by dwarves everytime you go into a town.
Also while there might be bots & ebay it's not so noticeable becuse of the auction house and npc to keep prices resonable and since everybody can craft repair it is not run by DWARVEN GREED! i don't see ebay inflaition you can find what you need or can hunt in since the mobs have full drops.
I completely disagree....
One of the things i dislike the most is the feeling of not being unique... In WOW everyone can craft anything....
In lineage only dwarfs can craft as it should be in any game.
I disagree with you on this matter. If you look at all other games all the races have the ability to craft.... as it should be. All races in truth of a storyline (something L2 tends to not follow very much for some reason) can craft stuff for their own people. Hence the Elven Long Sword, which would have been crafted by Elves, not Dwarves. What about the Dark Elven Bow and Dagger, again these would be created by Dark Elves and not the Dwarves. The Dwarves, according to the storyline are "good engineers, skilled mathematicians and excelled in fine craftsmanship." This does not mean they are the only ones that have the ability, just look at all the story's that RPG's get their inspiration from. Dwarves have always been the MASTERS, with only Elves rivaling them on some things, but only in L2 are the ONLY craftsmen (not including the common craft).
But this is an argument (the whole tread included) that is strictly a matter of opinion. And whether some people like it or not, these types of discussions will pop up again and again. So instead of just flaming them and telling people to "go play your little cartoony game and never come back", just ignore these posts. It's peoples' right to post these discussions to compare and it's your right to not read them and get annoyed at other people's opinions. This is after all the GENERAL DISCUSSION thread, so get used to it or stop reading them.
This is a good post and some really good issues. I think that L2 already took things from WOW to the latest Chronicles.
They should implement quests that give 100% rewards but that takes much longer to do. (TOI Blue print quest is the worst joke ever imo). 100% certain with good rewards is the key and spread them all over the L2 world. High level quests in low level areas! Spread out the population over the server.
Several new hard quests with SP/XP/Recipe/Adena/Pet/Pet assessorial-rewards. You can choose a quest that fits your needs. Make a pure quest expansion.
Except for the quest system and some other small things, I think that L2 is the best, top of the line MMORPG in stores.
What's so good about WASD movement? I'm on a free WoW trial now, as well. That this is nothing like good and comfortable. While you are hunting you MUST use both hands at once (to move and to target/attack with the mouse), and I seriously lach another hand for using skills on shortcuts..
Also extra troubles while talking, each time you want to say something must type in /s or /w or what ever else...
What's so good about WASD movement? I'm on a free WoW trial now, as well. That this is nothing like good and comfortable. While you are hunting you MUST use both hands at once (to move and to target/attack with the mouse), and I seriously lach another hand for using skills on shortcuts..
Also extra troubles while talking, each time you want to say something must type in /s or /w or what ever else...
Coming from a FPS PC gamer, the WASD system is really nice.. for FPS games, it does make for an easy transition from FPS to MMO tho. I just don't see it having and really benefit in L2 tho.
I'm getting tired of hearing this "player-run" economy crap about WoW. WoW has just as many, if not MORE bots / ebayers / china farmers than L2. If you're talking about the crappy greens you use to level up, fine. I'll agree that's run by the players. Once you hit level 60 and we start talking the herbs needed for consumables, or the ores needed for higher level crafting, or even the epic drops, it's all china farmers / bots.
When you hit 60, go to Felwood, EPL (tyr's Hand), burning steepes, and all those places.. and then come back and tell me there's not any bots / china farmers / ebay. You can't make the excuse that level 60 isn't the only thing that matters because in WoW it IS all that matters.. the level grind is SOO easy that anyone can hit 60.. random 5 man pugs is proof of that. Overinflated AH prices in WoW is caused by the following:
1. Blizzard's choice to put the largest, and most consumable based raid instance they'll ever make in the game.
2. Due to the lack of mats to be found in the world, end-game raiders are ebaying just so they can have the required consumables for the next week.
3. Due to the demand for herbs, prices go up, players buy more gold.. it's an endless cycle..
PvP.. isn't that partly what makes L2 what it is? Being able to PvP anyone anywhere. Not knowing if the other person is higher level than you, or if they're some high level player just waiting to kill you when you're like level 25. It's what makes L2 an amazing game.. the PvP.. why would you change what defines this game and makes it unique.. just no..
Transport? i would have loved to be able to instantly teleport between towns.. and hunting grounds. Not to mention my hearthstone (read:SoE to a set location) is on an hour long cool down.. SoEs would have been cool too -__-
Instead in WoW.. I get to sit on an 7+ min flight path from IF to EPL. or don't forget (before it was patched) the flgiht path from auberdine to felwood was about 15 min, even tho the zones were right next to each other.
L2 totally blows WoW out of the water here.
so about your spells..
1. You're level 10.
2. Frost nova is on a 20+ (i think 25) second cooldown, that's only 8 yards around you. That's what the equivalent to melee range in L2 pretty much? What's the range on sleep? 600?
3. Not sure what 3 different fire spells you have at 10.. Fireball? Fireblast.. and?
Either way at level 60 in PvP you'll use a lot more skills, in PvE have fun spamming the same button over and over again =p
I'd hardly call it a MMO.. since all the PvE and PvP is instanced.. the only reason it's "MMO" is because the "lobby" area is full of players and that's about it.
Hehe, yeah. It's not massive, and it's not an RPG - in their defensve, they've always tried to say it's not an MMORPG. They said something about competitive online rpg, although for roleplaying, guildwars is really the worst joke ever.
As far as dwarf crafting goes, Splatter? I know you love Elmore, but make a level 1 elven alt and check the weapon store to see a nice surprise.
I think the idea that if you want a weapon crafted you goto a dwarf... If you want armor crafted you goto a dwarf.
The purpose of the dwarf has always been that of a crafting race. It's unrealistic to think other wise....
If you don't then why even have a dwarven race?
I resubmit my statement though: how did orcs, elves and humans get above stone age then? They never learned forging? Elves having the most powerful magic (and thus advanced learning) never learned how to work metal?
Sometimes I really hate the L2 devs. It's like they made design decisions with a dart board.