Lately I've been having an issue finding parties as Heirophant (Prophet). Despite my sweet buffs, +4 str,+4 dex,-8 con so i can help DD, and the fact I try to be really nice to people who play with me.....I don't get parties, no more than the occasional 45 minute duo.
And I have the reason why, it's not because Warcryers are overpowered, it's because of 2-boxed prophets (or buffers in general). This is a very serious issue that is hindering the enjoyment of the game for MANY players who enjoy the holy class of prophet.
Here's what I saw today while looking for party in Goddard.
Don't start with the 'omg there aren't enough prophets so i have to box one!" crap, look at the waiting list tards. And none of that "i'd invite a real prophet if one was LFG" crap either, I've seen "FRIENDS" running by me in groups with 2-boxed buffers on their trails at least 10 times. Also, none of that "I only use it to solo because I cant play much"; this is bull because no one plays an MMO to solo all the time unless they bot.
This is a serious problem that needs to be adressed NCSoft; here's a few solutions.
#1. Make a reportable offence out of 2-boxing and refusing a similiar level player a party.
#2. Make off-party buffing impossible by making buffs not work if the buffer is not in party ( add a feature where d/c'd players stay in party 5 minutes for safety).
#3. Make buffs level based, such as a level 58 buffer can't buff a level 70 player (perhaps 12 lvls limit).
#4. Give prophets and shillien elders something that helps them deal damage, such as warcryer's Soul Cry; just give it another name.
#5. Make buffs from out-of-party buffers take exp. It's only fair because it's how they do damage...with their buffs...
Se's are pretty much in the same boat.After 60 level 90% SE's are boxed.And i love idiots stating "SE's are overpowered!!!!I know it because i box one!!!!"...
After playing this game scince shortly after Release, And playing a Tank (at first) I can tell you it hasnt always been this way. It use to be harder to find a healer. Now that i box a SE I can play again. I quit once for like 3-4 months because i couldnt get a grp.
All those ideas suck IMHO. If thoses kind of rules are put in place, i wouldnt play anymore :(
After playing this game scince shortly after Release, And playing a Tank (at first) I can tell you it hasnt always been this way. It use to be harder to find a healer. Now that i box a SE I can play again. I quit once for like 3-4 months because i couldnt get a grp.
All those ideas suck IMHO. If thoses kind of rules are put in place, i wouldnt play anymore :(
Maybe you shouldn't play you heartless bastard. God forbid you play with a real SE or keep your stupid box in-party.
As for the picture you show, I dunn if all those are boxed, secondly for the LFG page... I have NEVER ever used it, and majority's of the server does not either use it, I have clicked the icon some time, and well I see nothing in it.
Pick up groups is something from the past, find a good clan, that is a must.
As for the picture you show, I dunn if all those are boxed, secondly for the LFG page... I have NEVER ever used it, and majority's of the server does not either use it, I have clicked the icon some time, and well I see nothing in it.
Pick up groups is something from the past, find a good clan, that is a must.
I know for a fact they're all 2-boxes and most are shared accounts. I shouldn't have to be clanned to a bunch of elitest jerks (called 'good' clans) to get a party.
After playing this game scince shortly after Release, And playing a Tank (at first) I can tell you it hasnt always been this way. It use to be harder to find a healer. Now that i box a SE I can play again. I quit once for like 3-4 months because i couldnt get a grp.
All those ideas suck IMHO. If thoses kind of rules are put in place, i wouldnt play anymore :(
Maybe you shouldn't play you heartless bastard.
MAybe you should get a second account and quit (you want some cheese with that?"
I know for a fact they're all 2-boxes. I shouldn't have to be clanned to a bunch of elitest jerks (called 'good' clans) to get a party.
And neither should you be here throwing bad words at everyone.
If you so much believe every good clan is yerks then well, what the heck are you playing this game for?
I'm only gonna say this once again, Pick up groups is GONE, I haven't played in a single pickup group since the cruma times back in Prelude, C1, and neither is most. All play with peoples within there clans, Why invite peoples from the outside beside friends? And help them lv when you get no benefits from it. Why help enemies?
Only times our clan ever party with outsiders except friends, is peoples who are interested to join the clan.
But I'm sure you will have a massive hard time to find a clan, when you behave like this.
I love the entitlement complex some people have in this game.
But it makes Baby Jesus cry, and do you really want to do that on his birthday?
Think of Baby Jesus!
Seriously, though...
I don't get parties unless it's in clan or in alliance. Why? I'm a 63 SE. Everyone and their cousin has at least an SE on the box burner. Does it make me sick? Yes.
Do I come in here and whine about it? No. I figure out what I have to do to get what I want.
Be a good boy and go stand in the corner. ooh and pick up that donkey hat while you at it.
Seriously tho, I made that some kind of suggestion concerning buff limitations in another thread a bit back. I for one never play within pickup groups unless I was in a group with clannies where "outsiders" where added at a later stage.
I do not see why it would be a problem to have that what you (the OP) suggested but I kinda have the feeling that those that think of buffers/healer as perfect 2-boxes are the same folks that enjoy FPS-games.
Unfortunately it instantly becomes whining if you suggest things like this. We are to make DD's ourselves and solo in a non-FPS-game.
I have to yet to see any real valid points why buffs should be cast on out of party folks in general. The first biggest whine I saw from mostly DD's was when Holy Weapon and Berserker Spirit became party casts only. Oddly enough the OL/WC can casts their buffs on party members/ally members only but that is up till this day never seen as a big problem by those same folks that like out of party buff boxes....
I've had more parties than I wanted to at any given point - including OOP pickup groups. Of course, I approach people for them actively.
I'm sure my friendlist would be overrun with people to party with if I'd already had 70+ levels to do so.
Live support > box.
Live support in group > having to box a prophet.
The 'waiting list' doesn't matter, party matching isn't where you get good parties to begin with.
A 'good' clan isn't one full of elitist jerks, but one full of nice enough people to offer anyone a party spot - making 'perfect groups' isn't required to get to 78, nor to get to 78 fast (see DevilStar of Devianne).
Like mentioned, pickup parties are dead. I haven't even looked at the party matching feature for 2 chronicles. All my groups are from Clan or alliance.
And I 2-box my prophet! And because of that many people in my ally have buffs, not just me, so my dear PP helps the entire alliance, at least those that party me :p
Maybe, just maybe, I don't want to party a complete stranger. I'd rather put my prophet and SE in party with me.
You cannot force a player to party someone that they don't want to party. It's an unfortunate situation for Prophets, SEs, Bishops and EEs but there is no easy fix. All you can really do is force these characters to be in party, which won't solve the problem for people who play those classes live.
The IMHO isn't H at all, and it's actually not just my opinion at all.
If you're not better than a boxed healer, you don't deserve parties. :)
But you do express it as that opinion of your MalineII is everyone's opinion.
Opinions make a discussion but for results you need the figure out what argument is to make things stick.
I know it's Christmas day and all, but this is my advice to the OP:
[923] it - start a clan of outcast buffers and healers - use pets as your main DDs - you would be the most unique clan ever. :D
Thought about this actually, considered leveling a BD to 74+ to Exp my Prophet; worthless BD's; I'd box 'em to get the points rolling in. Or an archer; they sucks anyway, only good for 2-boxing.
A good live buffer is always better than a good live box.
A bad live buffer is still always better than a live box.
Not having to play a box is always more relaxing than having to play a box.
I don't believe you have encountered any real bad buffers or support classes. I can mention a few types, specially the types you usually encounter during pickup groups. And yeah this is the types I have even partied with.
*Healers you need to ask to heal LOL, if I boxed here this problem would be gone.
* BD who don't dance.... LOL yeah encountered that not to long ago.
And the absolute worst kind of all, buffers who buff, then leave there keyboard to return way later......... OMG what i hate them.
But I agree, an good player playing it's support class is good, but bad... hell no.
Bun this is the last post I expected this holiday. The two hardest to find for me are Bladedancers first then Prophets after. Everyone is rolling a Warcrier yet forgetting the resists a Prophet recieves after 76. You cant get those from a 2box prophet, nor can you get GMight 3 as well. Prophets can heal you in small groups when there is no need for a main healer. Alot of my time I'm in pagans and it's perfect for a Prophet. They can buff, DD, give resists to dark attacks. In our clan when they are grouped up I then have to look outside the clan. You know who I goto first? Battle Prophets. Just the other day I had a bd and the whole thing, I just didn't have a freaking Prophet. I pmed you... not on as well as every other 69 prophet on the server.
Prophets above 76 are getting some good qualities. Does Block Shield work on mobs? If so you can stack with Hex! You can resist to Unholy attacks, theres alot of dark mobs out there! You can eventually give out PoF too!
So far theres only been a few Prophets who have made the effort to try and be a DD in a party. Besides my clanmates the only ones who do so are you and Nya.
As well to expand on the idea that I look into clan before looking outside of clan. If you aren't finding parties within clan/alliance and it's ruining how you enjoy the game then maybe you need to rethink that ;)
Also all Prophets aren't better than 2boxed. A real 73 Prophet in our Pagans group recently just buffed the normal buffs... no unholy resist and no Holy weapon, and gave zerk to the tank and no one else. After 1 death and 20minutes later we got it fixed but it just shows an example of how there are good and bad live prophets!
A good live buffer is always better than a good live box.
A bad live buffer is still always better than a live box.
Not having to play a box is always more relaxing than having to play a box.
Large group in tight spot - sure 100% true.
Small group/duo in relaxed spot - live healers are uselless.Live buffer's advantage - group dont need to stop for buffs , but with box you will get more exp even with 2 minute stop.
So you can believe that live buffers/healers are better than boxes everytime , but the fact that on Sieghardt 90% small groups use boxes means that your opinion is not that common.
The problem with support doing stupid things is caused by the fact that only really good friends will invite live support in small groups.And since small groups grinds in "safe" spots you dont need uber players.Just someone who buffs every 20 minutes.Or just someone who boxed their support to high levels.
Do your groups stop when a boxed buffer buffs? :p Hehe.
I'm plenty asset as a live healer - not as much of one as an OOP box, but more than an IP box.
Just someone who buffs every 20 minutes.
Don't CC so your party can go to a more dangerous spot. Don't help DD (let me guess, -10 STR?), don't heal, don't recharge, don't see to a good flow of mobs, don't help deal with adds.
Just don't do anything, that'll be good practice as for what you 'have' to do in a small group.
Or help and get your party to go to a higher exp spot.
MalineII.Try to understand.With good buffs high dmg mellees dont need heals.Ever.If mellee is idiot , sure , he will run into group of mobs and will die.Just go to Hot Springs and i'm sure you will find boxes sitting in every third pool there.
My personal experience there grouping with duelists , BD's , daggers in HS : buff , leave my SE on autofollow and read a book for 20 minutes.
my EE has a lot of grouping problems too... shes 73 after almost 2 years. seen clanmantes and friends pass her on both main and sub classes because support classes are only "worth partying" in large groups and occasionally PvP. i doubt she will ever get to sub cause my clan's wars take her exp a lot faster than she earns it, but i havent the heart to leave them after being together for so long :p so, now i play my ES most of the time and only log my EE when it sounds like theres a chance she'll get to play. gonna end up with an "alt" who's higher than my "main" this way.
its sad that people continue to put Exp gain above meeting new people or playing with old friends. but none of your solutions will work really, thats just the way it is. try to find someone who plays the same hours and is willing to share that Exp he is so piggishly gobbling by himself.
If you put another healer in group except of noone. You say 'putting the healer OOG is faster', but then, if you compete with a box in a small group, you're not up against a real DD, but up against an OOP boxed healer.
And in that case, in duos at least, you definitely add more than you take - in trios or groups of four, you take exp.
Then you get into decently big groups, and it won't make a big difference if you have a healer or a DD whacking something - and actually, in a big group, an elder's extra MP to other DDs adds more overall damage than adding a DD.
Lately I've been having an issue finding parties as Heirophant (Prophet).
Feel free to send me a PM if I'm on and you're LFG. Can't promise you a group everytime, but you'd be welcome to join us. If you can put up with the bad group makeups (and exp ;))we have (gogo, EE/Bish/TK trio!).
I don't really like most of the ways that get presented for dealing with two boxes, since they usually cause impact the game in other areas (buffing random strangers with ww etc.).
Live healer/buffers are dead, end of story. The few that are left will either quit or start a melee/DD class. The riduculously selfish and greedy attitude that mostly melee classes have in regards to exp is the cause of this. You will get no sympathy from a dual boxer because they have no reason to give you sympathy. They have their exp and that's all that matters. I constantly go on tirades about this and only get the same attitude... "I'm not botting!" Then what is a buffbot! These players do the same thing that they gripe about. "Why don't the GMs notice that 9 man party all acting in unison!" Dual boxes do the same thing.
TheBun, sadly you will have to deal or drop. There is no reasoning with knuckleheads who only see one perspective. People really don't understand what it is to have a healer/buffer as your main and primary character.
The perspective that a healer/buffer leeches exp has only come about because people do dualbox oop. The enormous saturation of buffbots has led people to believe that the moment a live healer/buffer starts sharing exp, that something is not right. Players say "that darn buffer/healer is just sitting there doing nothing, I hate that" Yet with every strike and every cast made by the those same making that comment, that "lazy" healer/buffer's power is there backing them up in a passive way. Healer/buffers are not tools that have a drawback, they contribute as much as any crit the strongest DD in group makes and helps shield as much as the hardest hit any tank will take. Quit, stay or roll another, not many other options. Just be glad you have lvl 75+ status tho, many other live healer/buffers won't get there.
Live healer/buffers are dead, end of story. The few that are left will either quit or start a melee/DD class. The riduculously selfish and greedy attitude that mostly melee classes have in regards to exp is the cause of this. You will get no sympathy from a dual boxer because they have no reason to give you sympathy. They have their exp and that's all that matters. I constantly go on tirades about this and only get the same attitude... "I'm not botting!" Then what is a buffbot! These players do the same thing that they gripe about. "Why don't the GMs notice that 9 man party all acting in unison!" Dual boxes do the same thing.
TheBun, sadly you will have to deal or drop. There is no reasoning with knuckleheads who only see one perspective. People really don't understand what it is to have a healer/buffer as your main and primary character.
The perspective that a healer/buffer leeches exp has only come about because people do dualbox oop. The enormous saturation of buffbots has led people to believe that the moment a live healer/buffer starts sharing exp, that something is not right. Players say "that darn buffer/healer is just sitting there doing nothing, I hate that" Yet with every strike and every cast made by the those same making that comment, that "lazy" healer/buffer's power is there backing them up in a passive way. Healer/buffers are not tools that have a drawback, they contribute as much as any crit the strongest DD in group makes and helps shield as much as the hardest hit any tank will take. Quit, stay or roll another, not many other options. Just be glad you have lvl 75+ status tho, many other live healer/buffers won't get there.
Disgusted
Thanks for your reasonable post. Only reason I'm so high is I duo'd another real PP on her subclass to 75 and duo'd my best friend till my 77 and her 75, she is subbing now; I dont really have anyone regular to party with while I wait for my clan to get closer to my level.
BTW Larielle, thanks for the offer; I don't have a problem with gimp parties with nice people; I don't buy into the crap elite-expers spew out of their mouths :) I'll have to take you up on that sometime =)
Vent; if you'd like a real fighting (as long as it isnt a full party where I have no mp^^) PP who knows how to buff, try pming me man please >.<
To all who think buffers are a waste of exp; again, go to Hell.
If you put another healer in group except of noone. You say 'putting the healer OOG is faster', but then, if you compete with a box in a small group, you're not up against a real DD, but up against an OOP boxed healer.
Example :
My warlock+2TH's and boxed SE with prophet in catacombs.We dont need heals (if we need i can heal with that lowbie heal).We need at least 2 rooms and still when we return mobs are only starting to respawn.If we add live healer (assuming we can find one lol) it will not benefit us in any way.
And in that case, in duos at least, you definitely add more than you take - in trios or groups of four, you take exp.
See above.Another part of the problem - gear.Duo with top armor and OE'd weapons can easily operate without healer or with boxed one.
Then you get into decently big groups, and it won't make a big difference if you have a healer or a DD whacking something - and actually, in a big group, an elder's extra MP to other DDs adds more overall damage than adding a DD.
Especially with Invocation coming.
My large groups ended in C5.In C4 we were doing Imperial Tomb with my SE as main healer.Couple of attempts in C5 was enought to understand that SE is not main healer anymore (any idiot who wants to say "but my group consisting of 5 heroes can do it np" go and play with razors).
Will see about Invocation.It just can bee too little , too late.
And i'm not against live support.I'm just stating that because of current buff system , exp/exp in group system and servers being full of top/OE'd gear makes live healer lose any use for small groups.And large groups are so unrewarding and hard to organise/keep going that almost no one bothers to make or join them.
Well, I box an SE and a WC myself. It is a shame, for the people who play "live" buffers/healers. Until recently, the play style was really slow and boring. because, before herbs came out, when ever you soloed, you had to spend a lot of time on your rear end. Now players can solo in fields with herbs, or hunt in other places when party is available with healers. Unfortunately, those of us that invested in a 2nd account and leveling/equipping our boxed healers/buffers are going to abandon them so easy. Personally, I think a "live" healer/buffer is better, when they are available. And I have seen that some clans state a preference for "real" healers. So you might try seeking out those clans.
Lately I've been having an issue finding parties as Heirophant (Prophet). Despite my sweet buffs, +4 str,+4 dex,-8 con so i can help DD, and the fact I try to be really nice to people who play with me.....I don't get parties, no more than the occasional 45 minute duo.
And I have the reason why, it's not because Warcryers are overpowered, it's because of 2-boxed prophets (or buffers in general). This is a very serious issue that is hindering the enjoyment of the game for MANY players who enjoy the holy class of prophet.
Here's what I saw today while looking for party in Goddard.
Don't start with the 'omg there aren't enough prophets so i have to box one!" crap, look at the waiting list tards. And none of that "i'd invite a real prophet if one was LFG" crap either, I've seen "FRIENDS" running by me in groups with 2-boxed buffers on their trails at least 10 times. Also, none of that "I only use it to solo because I cant play much"; this is bull because no one plays an MMO to solo all the time unless they bot.
This is a serious problem that needs to be adressed NCSoft; here's a few solutions.
#1. Make a reportable offence out of 2-boxing and refusing a similiar level player a party.
#2. Make off-party buffing impossible by making buffs not work if the buffer is not in party ( add a feature where d/c'd players stay in party 5 minutes for safety).
#3. Make buffs level based, such as a level 58 buffer can't buff a level 70 player (perhaps 12 lvls limit).
#4. Give prophets and shillien elders something that helps them deal damage, such as warcryer's Soul Cry; just give it another name.
#5. Make buffs from out-of-party buffers take exp. It's only fair because it's how they do damage...with their buffs...
MalineII.Try to understand.With good buffs high dmg mellees dont need heals.Ever.If mellee is idiot , sure , he will run into group of mobs and will die.
Groups of mobs can be good for melee exp, though.
The main limiting factor of melees' average DPS is the time they need to run between mobs. That's why catas are so popular among melees: you kill x4 HP mobs, so you need x4 less time on just running between mobs.
A good puller, a good crowd controller, a good healer, a good buffer of defensive buffs or everyone else who can help to increase effective density of mobs around a melee group actually increases the group's average DPS.
Last i noticed 90% of hunting areas have pretty spread out mobs.And in Interlude mob AI is changed that mobs spawning in larger groups will spread out.
Only classes that really needs this are pole users.
I would rather have a live buffer anyday,they keep a party going nonstop.
A boxed buffer you often have to stop for buffs,or one party member have to go afk to buff up..Same whit healers.Going to a place where you actually need healer,a boxed healer is a waste of time Imo..
Boxed buffer/healer is very good for soloing or to get a small grp going,if you cant find a live one.I recently resubbed to Prophet because we where lacking live buffers during my playtime,for that very reason that live buffer>boxed...If my party needs it ill pick my duals and be DD also,but mostly i just buff and help healing if needed..
Point is i keep the party going...Only propblem i have as a prophet is summoners,i wich NCsoft would figure something out to help prophets whit those><
I suggest you get with the program and stop using your support class. Since 2-boxing is so wide-spread you will prolly have a hard time getting parties and will probably only get called upon in wars/sieges so you can de-level your toon.
Wasn't Lorh among the first to 78 on Devianne? I don't remember it so clearly - she's an SE at any rate, and as far as I'm aware she's live (I don't think buffboxes want pretty signatures).
Problem is not only need for buffs ... problem is that playing support class is so boring in this game. You feel so useless in any group, just buff/sit or buff/recharge/sit cycle :( Nothing to contribute to party second client with box could not do as good as you :(
There are so many reasons to disagree with the OP, I'll limit them to a few of my own. In my clan, we only have one full-time live Bishop, one live fulltime Prophet, and one part-time SE. We could use more, but noone wants to play a buffer or healer. Not because they aren't needed, but because they aren't fun to play. It's much more fun to play a DD or Nuker. For clan hunts we want live players, not dual-boxed healers because most higher-level hunting areas like the Rift work better with a live player behind the keyboard.
The problem imo stems from the grind and how the game is set up. When I want to grind and the clan doesn't have anything going on, I dual box in an area easy for me to handle in a duo to my heart's content. Most pickup groups I ever participated in didn't last that long and if you're seriously grinding you don't want to stop every hour to find another player. It's much easier to dual-box for 4, 5, or 6 hours straight without worrying about what another player is going to do.
And lastly is the issue of clan loyalties. Why would you invite a person outside of your clan when you have a healer already? You act as if people are elitist if they only hunt with their clan. I thought that was the whole reason for having a clan and alliance system. If you're a rogue player with no affiliations, why should you be trusted? If you're a member of a clan, you might be an enemy. The game is designed this way. My advice is, if you don't have a clan, or aren't happy with your clan, find another one that makes you happy. What's so hard about that?
Frankly, as another poster indicated, it sounds to me like you just want to be catered to. It's not easy so you're complaining. The support classes in our clan don't complain because we always utilize them and they feel needed. So maybe you're just taking the wrong approach? :)
I also find it odd that people complain at once about not having anything to do in parties (which would imply having time to grab a dagger and put the pain to things), while others say they don't have the MP to manage... simply veer towards the 'bored' scenarios (small groups, safe areas) to start enjoying yourself by pulling (whee ++exp), assisting damage (whee, ++exp), and trying to manage your MP at the same time.
Great post, it's a shame most people see support as leeches just because they have a passive role, which is just as important as DDing but literally almost no one sees it that way.
The main problem is the experience calculation, no matter how you twist and turn it. As long as experience is simply calculated as damage = exp the problem is unfixable except on a personal level - as most remaining live support classes that are still enjoying themselves are doing.
It's possible to have live support classes of high levels in a highly competitive clan - it's just not necessary.
Thanks for your reasonable post. Only reason I'm so high is I duo'd another real PP on her subclass to 75 and duo'd my best friend till my 77 and her 75, she is subbing now; I dont really have anyone regular to party with while I wait for my clan to get closer to my level.
Bun, you are one of the better players in the game, as far as when you and I have been in groups together. But ya gotta know by now that your lack of tact just isn't healthy for friend making. I agree that last pick up group you and I did in TOI made me want to solo for the rest of the time I play L2. So maybe what you really need is a small group of friends who hunt with their friends because they are just that.
I quoted you above to say that healers and buffers need to network. I know you were networked, but I don't think a lot of your old friends may play anymore.
For those of you that hate buffpets, I am done with the days of c2 where we sat for two hours waiting on an se or prophet to logg in so we could go hunt for an hour. I will bring my own if they aren't already available.
Without boxed support classes, a lot of groups wouldn't happen. As such, boxed support classes will never disappear because people don't like to sit around town waiting for live players to log in every day.
However, this should not make it impossible for you to get groups, I just think that you're going about it wrong. What you need to do is to find an alliance that has active players that make groups primarily with other people in the alliance. I don't know the particular situation on your server, but most likely there are alliances that make parties that include both boxed and live support preferring live support when it is available and boxing what they have to when it's not. If the people that you are currently friends with/play with will really not invite you in preference over a boxed buffer... then you'll want to change who you're playing with in order to enjoy your class.
For those of you that hate buffpets, I am done with the days of c2 where we sat for two hours waiting on an se or prophet to logg in so we could go hunt for an hour. I will bring my own if they aren't already available.
Well said.
This is exactly the reason why I created my SE. Plus, I suck at making groups...
There's nothing wrong with a prophet having an exp pet - I'd get an ES or archer if I were a PP looking for an exp pet. :p
Of course, it's something you have to decide on early on.
In the end, it's frustrating to wait for live classes for a group, and if someone can play two at the same time and it makes a group happen, that doesn't mean that the boxed classes can't get into groups any more, but rather that all those who would have otherwisely sat on their arses waiting for the boxed class now got a party.
For those of you that hate buffpets, I am done with the days of c2 where we sat for two hours waiting on an se or prophet to logg in so we could go hunt for an hour. I will bring my own if they aren't already available.
Nothing wrong with that, in fact we do it quite often ourselves when people are playing subs and no "live" buffer is on. Then somebody brings his 2box along. It only gets annoying when somebody logs on on his buffer main and cannot get a group because everybody else is out soloing/duoing with a buffpet in tow out of party. "SE lfg!" - "nah, we already have one here". Thank god I am in a decent clan where people get parties simply because they are clannies. I actually heard rumours about other (large) clans where 70+ SE/PP were kicked out when space was needed, because they only wanted to have Warcryers/Doomcryers in clan (they had enough SE/PP alts apparently...)
Definitely, the advantage of a live Prophet who knows their class is invaluable in a party. No stopping hunt for buffs, getting the advantage of backup heals and nonregular specific buffs, rooting in tight spots... and all the other little things they can do to make the hunt go smoothly, and if they can, join in the fun and slap the mobs with their weapons. Any of the classes, if they are played badly or the person playing them hasn't bothered to learn how to play their class, can be a drag on a party.
I agree, soloing is nice if you are just after levels etc... There's no way to argue if that is what someone is playing the game for. For me, partying is the way to go... not just because of my class but because it is fun. Most of the fun of this game for me is the people you meet and make friends with and thereby party up with. For me it is about the interaction with other people. It is also about matching up those people with their classes and forming a productive hunting party.
I have been lucky most of my L2 life that I have been in active clan/allies that have partied a lot, and since I am pretty good at getting parties started, I have been able to level steadily and consistently. Over the last quarter, because of the C5 ally changes, I ended up in a clan that basically soloed or partied in small cliques, I didn't level very much... so I can really relate to the support classes who do complain about that; they have a reason to complain, imo. My unsolicited advice is to start hunting for a better clan/ally, one that is about the well-balanced party and the camaraderie.
**** humans, I swear to god. Eating and needing to breath, unreal.
They're still downsides regardless, and the problem with healers/buffers in particular is that they're such focused classes, so if you lose a prophet, you'd need a prophet, if you need great healing from a bishop, you need a bishop.
DD and tank classes have lots of alternatives when one goes missing.
Thanks for your reasonable post. Only reason I'm so high is I duo'd another real PP on her subclass to 75 and duo'd my best friend till my 77 and her 75, she is subbing now; I dont really have anyone regular to party with while I wait for my clan to get closer to my level.
Bun, you are one of the better players in the game, as far as when you and I have been in groups together. But ya gotta know by now that your lack of tact just isn't healthy for friend making. I agree that last pick up group you and I did in TOI made me want to solo for the rest of the time I play L2. So maybe what you really need is a small group of friends who hunt with their friends because they are just that.
I quoted you above to say that healers and buffers need to network. I know you were networked, but I don't think a lot of your old friends may play anymore.
For those of you that hate buffpets, I am done with the days of c2 where we sat for two hours waiting on an se or prophet to logg in so we could go hunt for an hour. I will bring my own if they aren't already available.
Thanks for the compliment bro. I know I come off as a jerk alot though >.> Bitterness ftw! And yeah, when I came back; only about 1/3rd of my friend list still played.
I don't mind PP buffpet so much in itself, but it's the nature of players to ignore the lonely buffers when they want the little extra exp. That's why I'm bitter =)
umm.. if you can't get a group, how did you get to lvl 77???
1-55 =solo
56-67 = Duo w/ best friend
68-70=solo
70-75 Duo w/ another PP on her TH sub
76-77+ =duo w/ best friend and the occasional pity group from some other great friends (who do have a 2box, but let me come with my tallum heavy+dual keshes to DD...) and a pick-up party here and there that I might have had a friend in who threatened to leave if they didn't take me :P
That sufficient? My argument is valid; without the 2 people I duo'd and the friends who let me play as PP; I'd be nothing.
I don't know what it is exactly, but I have plenty of people to party with. My main problem is being casual and having to look over and over again since people usually outlevel me. What I do is:
1.) Offer buffs to any soloer coming through. Sod having to sit down, taking someone into the party like this is usually worth it for me, unless I'm in a party with someone other than myself already.
2.) Buff dwarves and tanks in town. Nobody else is more grateful.
3.) Go to spots where someone who doesn't have a healer or buffer with them would solo and repeat the above.
4.) Specifically approach dwarves and tanks for parties.
That does it for me. It might be different on your server - anI guess it definitely is too late at your level.
I know a few dwarves who have the same behaviour - they insist on sharing spoil even when I say I'm fine without on the first few runs, to make sure I get money and remember them pleasantly, and later we come to an agreement about where to hunt and splitting only certain items.
Back in C4, organising raid groups also helped tremendously, but of course that's not the case anymore. I also find, although it's a tiny difference, that grabbing two reject classes (for example dorfie and PP) and then looking for more to group is often more efficient than asking groups if they want you in - grabbing a lone person looking for a quick party is easier than grabbing a whole party.
No clan that will prefer a box over you is worth your attention, IMHO. In the three high level (7x~3rd class) clans I've been in, live support was treated well. Of course, most of their live support also hit stuff and didn't mind the parties not being perfect, but you don't come off as being too snobbish to do either... and you said you hit things.
There must be people around who appreciate live support even on your server. I just don't know who that might be. :p
As for your dual box not taking a potty break without you LC: I was referring to the fact that when you group someone who brings a dual box, that box (from the group's perspective) has all the same problems as a real live support character.
That said, there's nothing wrong with agreeing in advance to have a little grindbreak every one or two hours, provided you're with people who you know won't run off forever when you do.
#1. Make a reportable offence out of 2-boxing and refusing a similiar level player a party.
#2. Make off-party buffing impossible by making buffs not work if the buffer is not in party ( add a feature where d/c'd players stay in party 5 minutes for safety).
#3. Make buffs level based, such as a level 58 buffer can't buff a level 70 player (perhaps 12 lvls limit).
#4. Give prophets and shillien elders something that helps them deal damage, such as warcryer's Soul Cry; just give it another name.
#5. Make buffs from out-of-party buffers take exp. It's only fair because it's how they do damage...with their buffs...
All that seems a bit harsh, if someone wants to 2box then that's their choice. Not fair to dictate how someone should play the game because it hurts your gaming experience.
All the PPs I've partied with get their high levels by meeting a few simple requirements.
Got to make sure you're going to be on with the same group of friends most nights. Irregular play patterns will just get you replaced. You do play a lot HDB so that shouldn't be a problem.
Got to make sure the party can exp forwards and not backwards. You've got Enkora, there's a 75+ Heavy DD. Pick up a mid to high 60s BD and SwS, possible another DD or two. Got a good party right there. You already 2 box an SE so you've got VR.
Pretty sure you took a break from game for a while so that could be part of the reason you're out of luck getting parties. Maybe you're getting parties just fine, don't think so, a lot of hate in your post so it has to come from somewhere.
As for your dual box not taking a potty break without you LC: I was referring to the fact that when you group someone who brings a dual box, that box (from the group's perspective) has all the same problems as a real live support character.
Yes, but they are less likely and if the group all have boxed support characters, they can discuss in advance when to be somewhere or they can even have more than one available.
Huh? Do you need less breaks when you dual-box? o_O
Bringing multiple boxes to a group is all well and fine - but then, you can of course also bring a box and a live support class, so the comparison of 'multiple boxes' vs 'single live class' is a bit silly.
Instead they take bathroom breaks, gets hungry, has to go, remembers a good movie is on, has the wife/husband nagging, gets a phone call, etc. etc.
It's not just the prophets that do this. There are plenty of other classes that do it too:
I was in a clan that the Tank (with her PP box) would just leave her computer without any notice and no explaination when she returned. She even had the audacity to complain once because the mobs at WoA made it dangerous for her to do so and she didn't want to hunt there anymore!!! LOL. We ended up rarely partying with this one.
After playing this game scince shortly after Release, And playing a Tank (at first) I can tell you it hasnt always been this way. It use to be harder to find a healer. Now that i box a SE I can play again. I quit once for like 3-4 months because i couldnt get a grp.
All those ideas suck IMHO. If thoses kind of rules are put in place, i wouldnt play anymore :(
Maybe you shouldn't play you heartless bastard. God forbid you play with a real SE or keep your stupid box in-party.
LMAO
HAHAHHAHAA
i dont agree either with IMHO but i cant help laughing at the reply. :D
BUN,
let me begin by saying that your a witless chapstick head. Most of the Major clan leaders if you havent noticed are Prophets. At least on Seig theyare either BD or prophets or SE. Support classes are very well respected. They always have been. If you cant pick up a party as a support class, you either dont have a good pick up line OR are very unfriendly. SInce you dont want to be in a clan, YOU want to SOLO as a support class!!?? But your complaining about people soloing. I thought I was confused but then i realized your a chapstick head.
LOL BUN
No wonder Im no longer your hotdog.
BUN,
let me begin by saying that your a witless chapstick head. Most of the Major clan leaders if you havent noticed are Prophets. At least on Seig theyare either BD or prophets or SE. Support classes are very well respected. They always have been. If you cant pick up a party as a support class, you either dont have a good pick up line OR are very unfriendly. SInce you dont want to be in a clan, YOU want to SOLO as a support class!!?? But your complaining about people soloing. I thought I was confused but then i realized your a chapstick head.
LOL BUN
No wonder Im no longer your hotdog.
No; I don't want to solo. I'm waiting for my noob clannies to get their rerolls up to my level. I want parties.
Chapstick head.....man you need to come up with something better than that.
#1. Make a reportable offence out of 2-boxing and refusing a similiar level player a party.
#2. Make off-party buffing impossible by making buffs not work if the buffer is not in party ( add a feature where d/c'd players stay in party 5 minutes for safety).
#3. Make buffs level based, such as a level 58 buffer can't buff a level 70 player (perhaps 12 lvls limit).
#4. Give prophets and shillien elders something that helps them deal damage, such as warcryer's Soul Cry; just give it another name.
#5. Make buffs from out-of-party buffers take exp. It's only fair because it's how they do damage...with their buffs...
All that seems a bit harsh, if someone wants to 2box then that's their choice. Not fair to dictate how someone should play the game because it hurts your gaming experience.
All the PPs I've partied with get their high levels by meeting a few simple requirements.
Got to make sure you're going to be on with the same group of friends most nights. Irregular play patterns will just get you replaced. You do play a lot HDB so that shouldn't be a problem.
Got to make sure the party can exp forwards and not backwards. You've got Enkora, there's a 75+ Heavy DD. Pick up a mid to high 60s BD and SwS, possible another DD or two. Got a good party right there. You already 2 box an SE so you've got VR.
Pretty sure you took a break from game for a while so that could be part of the reason you're out of luck getting parties. Maybe you're getting parties just fine, don't think so, a lot of hate in your post so it has to come from somewhere.
Enkora wanna play sub x.x This main reason I try to LFG now -.- But yeah, I'm a bit out of the loop cause of my 10 month break. I'm hoping now that I have PoF, I can get party easy :P
Let's face it, certain types of people are reluctant to continue playing this game, when they start to see what's it all about.
Among those who remain, combination of different reasons is possible.
<ul type="square"> Support classes want and demand high and quick exping. Who would duo a SwS (for example level 44) or Temple Knight or a newbie warlord, if they have a chance to whine their way into mage duo/party as SE, or duo/full-archer party as PP? Also, they'd like the party to go to x15 ultra physical resist group mobs in ToI floor 9129, because it's good exp %_% Not some stupid white-to-green ("lol, how can someone level on that!") mobs, that drop some stupid quest items, that could give some stupid a-grade parts Some of the supportless class representatives, especially from DD, mages, really don't like someone feeding on their precious exp. They would pay for offparty buffs if dual-box were enforced as a strict no-no A laughable for most of the current playerbase moment. Some people have problems with earning adena ingame. Parties with support may benefit them in pve to an extent, but would eat through the finances at great pace. Dual box will never have problems with partial compensating for pots and shots. Live support would call you crazy for even thinking about that.
The popular support has a bit less of a problem here. Those that can't greatly increase patk/matk with buffs, can't improve your crit chance and damage are considered more like exp-leechers (add a well-deserved loot-leechers to that). Oh sure, people like to have high-level Elven Elders at their disposal in pvp and sieges, but when it comes to exping, people have no offers. This also means that if no dual-boxes were around, that will absolutely not guarantee you party.
People can simply have grudges with each other.
I've interviewed some buffers. SEs say, like, lol, let them be without party if they want to share shot-expenses or something, i'll find someone who doesn't. Would dual-box say that? This is a huge problem with support classes, i think. Bishop or EE could be boosted to have something like +50% patk buffs and then they won't have great problems partying (or they'll be new fotm buff-bots).
As of right now, parties are possible only if it's full party (expenses are less noticeable for individual DD, exp is nice usually), or people are rich (you know, how people can and do get rich ingame), and only if they're not crazy munchkins (or even cretins).
And final option is a party, when you're friends. Less demands and more listening to each other needs.
How could you get friendly without partying is a question hard to answer though.
Vent; if you'd like a real fighting (as long as it isnt a full party where I have no mp^^) PP who knows how to buff, try pming me man please >.<
So you are complaining that you don't get parties and now you say that you don't want to join a "Full" party because of MP usage - limit your options why don't you?
I dual-box a 53 SE, but that account also has my BH, SR and misc others, whereas my main account has my SWS (62), WS 53, SH 48, BH 33.
Even though it would be nice to level my SE all the time, I would rather party with a "real" player. However, i'm sure my toons or my personality or something else wouldn't fit your requirements. Don't call us, we wont call you.
It's just sad that people that chose to go a route where they make other classes tons better, but sacrifice their own ability to get exp without assistance, are so looked down upon by so many.
I agree, Ellie. The passive-assistance character is pretty important in the game for many reasons but there are those who think they are simply useless. But I guess that is why men are from Mars and women are from Venus :) It's the age old battle of the sexes, using the corollary of the attack classes as men and the support classes as women. It takes a lot for men to realize what woman/feminine attributes contributes to the overall health of the lifestyle. Man, that is old.. old.. old. Looks like the revolution didn't do much. :mad: IRL, I guess, men would love to have the ability to have a you-know-what bot to pull around out of party to use without having to share anything. LOL.
Again, I say, the key to the healthy experience in this game is the relationships you form and the fun you have hunting together and sharing the experience with friends. Consequently, those who are working a toon that the purpose is to solo to only get xp for themselves, well, there is no mutual attraction. It's why I rarely respond to a request from an SH in VoS for a rez :) even if it is to administer a Brez.
So you are complaining that you don't get parties and now you say that you don't want to join a "Full" party because of MP usage - limit your options why don't you?
I meant I can only fight in a smaller party....I have to sit in full ones.....I didn't mean I wouldn't join.....
So you are complaining that you don't get parties and now you say that you don't want to join a "Full" party because of MP usage - limit your options why don't you?
I meant I can only fight in a smaller party....I have to sit in full ones.....I didn't mean I wouldn't join.....
You certainly got partys somewhere along the line, otherwise you wouldnt be as high level as you are.
I 2nd box a warcrier, which ususally either
A) Allows a party to go somewhere they couldnt normally because none of our prophets are on.
B) Allows me to solo when i feel like it
C) Sits in the clan hall because he's not needed in the group that im in.
In my nearly 3 years of playing I have noticed this trend.
Some people never ever get parties. It doesn't matter what class they are, they just never get an invite.
It's comes down to a couple things.
- The person gets parties, but they forget about those the first time they can't get one and then it becomes "I never get a party"
- The person never gets a party because they are a ****.
- The person never gets parties because he plays at odd times.
- The person doesn't get parties because of bad habits - you know getting to the hunting ground and then having to leave 5 mins later, long & frequent AFK's, etc.
Maybe it's just the people I hang around, but I've seen some stupid parties - 1 DD and 5 healers.. lol In my crowd, if someone wants a party, they get it about 90% of the time. The other 10%, most parties are full, or sometimes there just aren't any going on, sometimes not too many people are logged in.
I have read most of the posts in this discussion, I agree with some points on both sides. Live Healers and Buffers do rule over 2 box's; aslong as they know what the hell they are doing.
For those who do not have access to a Live Healer/Buffer in game why are you asking them to be punished for using or getting their own Boxed Healer/Buffer.
Having difficulty finding a group? Try playing a tank since the game first came out. The last few chronicles have nearly made tanks Obsolete. With the incredible Dmg output of characters such as Daggers, Archers, and Nukers even 4X and 5X mobs are generally dead before a charcters health drops too far.
That is not saying that tanks are not needed in places like the 4 Sepulchers, IT, MoA etc. Or for Raiding. Tank skill set is improving we simply are not as integral to group dynamics as the DD's.
If my playstyle prohibits me from playing 2-4hrs straight each time I sit down should I be punished because it may take me 45mins to 1.5 hrs jsut to find a grp? If I can only play for an hour right now should I have to spend half of that time just looking for a buffer/healer?
I play this game for my enjoyment first and formost, not yours or anyone else's. If I was not having fun because I spent 1/3 to 1/2 of my ingame time just looking for a group or Buffs; and my solution to the problem was to get a "Box" healer/buffer. Who has the right to tell me I can not do that because it may or may not interfere with their Fun.
It's comes down to a couple things.
- The person gets parties, but they forget about those the first time they can't get one and then it becomes "I never get a party"
- The person never gets a party because they are a ****.
- The person never gets parties because he plays at odd times.
- The person doesn't get parties because of bad habits - you know getting to the hunting ground and then having to leave 5 mins later, long & frequent AFK's, etc.
- The person never gets party because they're not a woman (or acts like one) :D
I donno I neve had much problem getting groups really, sometimes I whined just to hear myself but in general it was not difficult. Now I never have problems finding a group, ever.
All can understand and appreciate your desire to get groups as a prophet. It's unfortunate but NC Soft has made numerous changes to L2 which work against prophets:
- Clan halls are one of your biggest killers. Many players get all the buffs you offer AND MORE (resist stun, emp, etc) from their clan hall.
- Buff pots/scrolls added to the game dont help ya either. Players can buff themselves.
- Overall the poor difference between buffs of a 56 prophet and you as a 77 prophet are a factor. It takes ?? 2 weeks to make a 56 prophet and pve the only difference between a 77 prophet and a 56 prophet is Greater Might. The two-boxed prophet you make is available 100% of the time you are. You never have to deal with logging into L2 to find your duo partner isn't online.
Please understand I began leveling with the same prophet almost daily from 5x to 76 and he is now 78. I know other live prophets 77+. It's all about finding a group of players who play the same times you do. You REALLY need to find a group of players who are level 76+ and grinding daily. The grind sucks bad enough for a 76+ char to solo with a dual-boxed prophet. To share half the xp not to mention the $$ and drops is something most players are simply not willing to do. That is where you need to depend on your clan/ally for help.
It's just sad that people that chose to go a route where they make other classes tons better, but sacrifice their own ability to get exp without assistance, are so looked down upon by so many.
Care to support my crystals and soulshots expenses with money?
No. Who's being looked down upon then?
Lately I've been having an issue finding parties as Heirophant (Prophet). Despite my sweet buffs, +4 str,+4 dex,-8 con so i can help DD, and the fact I try to be really nice to people who play with me.....I don't get parties, no more than the occasional 45 minute duo.
And I have the reason why, it's not because Warcryers are overpowered, it's because of 2-boxed prophets (or buffers in general). This is a very serious issue that is hindering the enjoyment of the game for MANY players who enjoy the holy class of prophet.
Here's what I saw today while looking for party in Goddard.
Don't start with the 'omg there aren't enough prophets so i have to box one!" crap, look at the waiting list tards. And none of that "i'd invite a real prophet if one was LFG" crap either, I've seen "FRIENDS" running by me in groups with 2-boxed buffers on their trails at least 10 times. Also, none of that "I only use it to solo because I cant play much"; this is bull because no one plays an MMO to solo all the time unless they bot.
This is a serious problem that needs to be adressed NCSoft; here's a few solutions.
#1. Make a reportable offence out of 2-boxing and refusing a similiar level player a party.
#2. Make off-party buffing impossible by making buffs not work if the buffer is not in party ( add a feature where d/c'd players stay in party 5 minutes for safety).
#3. Make buffs level based, such as a level 58 buffer can't buff a level 70 player (perhaps 12 lvls limit).
#4. Give prophets and shillien elders something that helps them deal damage, such as warcryer's Soul Cry; just give it another name.
#5. Make buffs from out-of-party buffers take exp. It's only fair because it's how they do damage...with their buffs...
To all who truly care; I thank you. To all who think buffers are a waste of Exp; I'll see you in Hell =)
I only skimed this post, and didnt read any replies, but I dont agree with you at all. I am an overlord, I am the most useless class in pve, I am so useless in pve I dont bother asking for parties.
If I did ask, I would get them, but I would be a leech. This is because I have a great clan. Maybe look into joining a clan that has members that will party you? Maybe your clan/friends are the problem, not the game.
"Also, none of that "I only use it to solo because I cant play much"; this is bull because no one plays an MMO to solo all the time unless they bot."
I can play, at most, 7 hours a day 5 days a week, and 12 hours (at most) 2 days a week. I have never used any third party program, im the most useless class in pve. Ive leveled 90% of the time just with a friend of mine, and we use a two box. I dont have the time to sit around waiting for parties. I know the concept is new to you, but a lot of people dont have 20 hours a day to play video games.
To be honest im really sick of these kind of posts, I cant believe you have the audacity to act like boxing a buffer is cheating or immoral. Its not cheating. There is nothing wrong with boxing.
This is a very serious issue that is hindering my enjoyment of the game
I can play, at most, 7 hours a day 5 days a week, and 12 hours (at most) 2 days a week. I have never used any third party program, im the most useless class in pve. Ive leveled 90% of the time just with a friend of mine, and we use a two box. I dont have the time to sit around waiting for parties. I know the concept is new to you, but a lot of people dont have 20 hours a day to play video games.
off-topic a bit but i can't help it: you have 60-hours a week to spend playing a game and you don't have the time to look for a party?
i don't feel bad now for not being subclassed already. :p lol
I donno I neve had much problem getting groups really, sometimes I whined just to hear myself but in general it was not difficult. Now I never have problems finding a group, ever.
I'd like to quote this - I'm one of those guys that teams with Fathips (Prophet) 90% of my own playtime - it's all about having a "network" of people/friends to play with. As Andothe said it seems the topic starters' network of friends is made up from old connections, whom, most of them, stopped playing Lineage2. This is very typical for people that had a few months off, I experience this myself in C2 when I was an EE and I had to rebuild my "network", which was so much work and hard to do I just rerolled a solo class (this ES).
Anyways gl with your endeveours, but IMO blaiming 2boxes is just part of your problem, IMO theres a higher factor in your network of gamefriends. Try to meet new people. Teamplay classes need many friends to guarantee steady nonrandom groups. Since I heard your skills are praised as a prophet I'd start with the friends you have and expand from there.
I could add a cheesy "I'll team you" here but I won't, since I play with Fathips and he'd PK me if I cheat on him <3
Anyways gl with your endeveours, but IMO blaiming 2boxes is just part of your problem
2boxing is the symptom of a problem, the problem is how the game is set up, its incredibly flawed. That people can work around this doesn't mean the flaw isn't there.
I can play, at most, 7 hours a day 5 days a week, and 12 hours (at most) 2 days a week. I have never used any third party program, im the most useless class in pve. Ive leveled 90% of the time just with a friend of mine, and we use a two box. I dont have the time to sit around waiting for parties. I know the concept is new to you, but a lot of people dont have 20 hours a day to play video games.
off-topic a bit but i can't help it: you have 60-hours a week to spend playing a game and you don't have the time to look for a party?
i don't feel bad now for not being subclassed already. :p lol
@ the OP,
I am a 7x OL with a Necro subclass. A friend of mine was going to sub SE with me but he changed his mind and I couldn't convince anyone else to sub SE to duo me. I had to MAKE an SE.... I did the whole academy thing and leveled her to 40 and have been duoing her on my subclass. Then a clanmember of mine Subbed EE. So I put my SE oop only when my clan member is on to duo. It works great
My point here is that I, personally, 2 box but I always take real people over a boxed SE because it is easier, I help a clan member, and he can heal me if pvp comes <3.
P.S. if you read my sig..the Prophet is on the same account as my Overlord..she used to be my main but I went OL because there were way too many buffers in c2..and then they all became buffpets in c3....
even half that is a hell of a lot of time to be playing a game :p
How dense can someone be?
First off, 30 hours a week is not a lot of time to be playing l2 99% of the people who are high level play more than that.
Second, it takes a really long time to get a random party going, you have to find people (sometimes hours) then run everyone to the same spot and hope no one leaves. If someone leaves you just wasted a lot of time.
Third, When I say "AT MOST" I mean "AT MOST" As in, in my day there are 7 hours of "free time" that I can do whatever I want with. Rarely do I get to play the whole 7 hours. Is that blunt enough for you?
Care to support my crystals and soulshots expenses with money? No. Who's being looked down upon then?
No, why on earth would I?
Because you don't use soulshots and don't have to spend crystals for summoning a servitor when duoing?
I do and they cost adena, you know, which doesn't just regenerate over time like MP does.
This is a ******ed post. who are you to force us to play to by the way you would like the game. its already gotten bad enough with all the nerfing and makingit so we cant drop items to mobs, making mobs less agro and what not. I remeber back when this game was really hard core and I loved it.
Get in clan and stop crying.
Most people that 2 box do it becasuse its a pain to depend on others for buffs and heals.
I can remeber many hours of standing around trying to find a party or even a buffer to come and XP with me. Also many buffers are too unreliable. they go afk they leave party shortly after starting. they can take for ever to get to your location
I can remeber many hours of standing around trying to find a party or even a buffer to come and XP with me.
I can remember that too, my current record is shouting for 2.5 hours straight, but that is probably due to the fact that if I dont get a party in short amount of time I just go solo. It was like 4% per hour at 69-70, for comparasing lvl 74 BD I know says he's making 5% at lvl 74..
Also many buffers are too unreliable. they go afk they leave party shortly after starting. they can take for ever to get to your location
I can say same for any class, for example yesterday I waited a total of more then an hour between a pm "hey, want to go to Pagan" and me saying to mycelf "forget it what ever, Im tired of waiting for nothing"..
Do I now scream that all DD's and BD's are unreliable? No.
Care to support my crystals and soulshots expenses with money? No. Who's being looked down upon then?
No, why on earth would I?
Because you don't use soulshots and don't have to spend crystals for summoning a servitor when duoing?
I do and they cost adena, you know, which doesn't just regenerate over time like MP does.
If I was duoing a summoner, who was using crystals, pet shots, and people shots, I would probably donate. Chances are I'd drop a bunch of crystals on them.
Then again, I've been playing my BH lately. How about if I just share spoils instead?
If I was duoing a summoner, who was using crystals, pet shots, and people shots, I would probably donate. Chances are I'd drop a bunch of crystals on them.
Then again, I've been playing my BH lately. How about if I just share spoils instead?
Fair enough :)
No but as a bishop I use bsps and spirit ore to heal. And if I rezzed you I wouldn't ask for 90% of what a brez cost either.
Naturally there would be little point in duoing me with a summoner though.
Oh sure, i can use bsps for heals either :) and soulshots for assisting my unicorn. And actually I'm levelling fine without outside heals.
Please, forgive me, i thought you to be an SE. :) Those are quite full of themselves.
There are points of being from the same clan, of solidarities and sympathies. I have a great respect for those supports who disallow sharing their accounts. And duo with a gimp is better than nothing in terms of experience gain.
You have no point of ressing me, either. So i won't ask you, if we don't know each other well, or if i don't like you.
It's true in some cases though. I find archers, with very very few exceptions, to be the MOST obnoxious players in the game. And the ones that aren't, usually started off playing a prophet or something like that.
As for partying with a summoner, my warlock friend straight up said there is zero point in us duoing, but we do it because we're friends ;) Otherwise yeah unless I can nuke I'm pretty useless.
Sure, some cases. I just think you shouldn't generalize.
On the other hand, most archers I've met are very nice and social people (believe it or not). There are SEs who are pretty **** moody, but the same can be said for prophets, tanks, bishops etc etc.
Okay, I have not been playing L2 as long as some of you guys and gals but I have to disagree with TheBun. You want to find people to play with? You need to be sociable and do more than just want to be part of a hunting group. You want to find some friends that sometimes you can just chat with. I do not duobox and don't intend to either. I never have trouble finding a LIVE buffer when I go hunting. I know several of them, in different clans. But I am always willing to take time and befriend people.
Sometimes I just sit in Giran and chat with 2-3 people at once, not doing anything but being there.
I also disagree that support classes are XP leeches. Hell, one of my favorite things to do at the moment is go and take on the an entire room in Branded and aggro everything on me (did I mention I don't use poles). I would not survive for very long if not for my buffs buddies. I also invite the buffers to come and WHACK the critters while I am doing so. Sure, they don't do much damage, but every bit counts. That is what my clan elders have taught me when I started out. I firmly believe that support classes easily earn their pay. I also firmly my toon is awesome because support classes help me to be awesome. My success is their success as well.
Lone support class out there asks if there is space in MY group? There always IS more room in MY groups. An extra buffer/healer just means I will go pick on something bigger and nastier. It also means we can support more damage dealers and tanks, resulting in faster kills and more XP and loot.
I have a cleric that will go for prophet one day. I usually only play that toon with clannies to support them. Do I mind only that I inflict one tenth of the damage the others do? Not at all, because at the end of the day, I know that I kept them alive and in one piece. I also buff random people in cities and in catacombs when they say hello. The Shillien Elders are always happy to receive Acumen from me and often return the favor with Empower. Do I have to do that? Not at all. But I do it because I feel like it. And people appreciate it. And the next time they want to go to hunt something and they see me, they often ask me if I want to join them.
I was dissapointed that so many people said the party matching page is dead. Such a great resource has recently turned into a WTB or WTS page. That kind of crap just irks me in general.
I say it is a great resource because I have used it to form many pole parties in the past. Often times there are large enough gaps in clan members levels that finding a party in clan is impossible. Back in C4 it was impossible even in large alliances if you werent a nuker.
I beg all of you dont give up on the party matching page. It is another way to meet players and form a great party base for future events. It does get complicated with all the clan wars and such and the ganks that come with them.
Bun if you dont mind partying with a Destroyer who is a couple levels lower than you, I wont mind not getting as much xp. I am often at Goddard. I do have a boxed EE but I suck so badly at 2 boxing that it is comical in nature. Might be a duo for a while but I am always game. Toon name is Gorthol.
Okay, I have not been playing L2 as long as some of you guys and gals but I have to disagree with TheBun. You want to find people to play with? You need to be sociable and do more than just want to be part of a hunting group. You want to find some friends that sometimes you can just chat with. I do not duobox and don't intend to either. I never have trouble finding a LIVE buffer when I go hunting. I know several of them, in different clans. But I am always willing to take time and befriend people.
Sometimes I just sit in Giran and chat with 2-3 people at once, not doing anything but being there.
I also disagree that support classes are XP leeches. Hell, one of my favorite things to do at the moment is go and take on the an entire room in Branded and aggro everything on me (did I mention I don't use poles). I would not survive for very long if not for my buffs buddies. I also invite the buffers to come and WHACK the critters while I am doing so. Sure, they don't do much damage, but every bit counts. That is what my clan elders have taught me when I started out. I firmly believe that support classes easily earn their pay. I also firmly my toon is awesome because support classes help me to be awesome. My success is their success as well.
Lone support class out there asks if there is space in MY group? There always IS more room in MY groups. An extra buffer/healer just means I will go pick on something bigger and nastier. It also means we can support more damage dealers and tanks, resulting in faster kills and more XP and loot.
I have a cleric that will go for prophet one day. I usually only play that toon with clannies to support them. Do I mind only that I inflict one tenth of the damage the others do? Not at all, because at the end of the day, I know that I kept them alive and in one piece. I also buff random people in cities and in catacombs when they say hello. The Shillien Elders are always happy to receive Acumen from me and often return the favor with Empower. Do I have to do that? Not at all. But I do it because I feel like it. And people appreciate it. And the next time they want to go to hunt something and they see me, they often ask me if I want to join them.
*APPLAUDS*
THIS is the kind of player I like to help. I will spend hours helping a lower lvl player like this. THIS is the kind of player I like to party with. I am without a doubt tempermental ingame, but meeting someone like Vicktor is what keeps me going to the low lvl areas and helping TRUE new players. Appreciation for what each class brings to the group and not just exp, exp, EXP!
I've started several alts, just so I can help healers get a group, since all self exping classes take free buffs from high lvl buffers or dualbox instead of partying with same/near lvl buffer/healers.
We who are about to buff and heal you, Salute you! :D
Okay, I have not been playing L2 as long as some of you guys and gals but I have to disagree with TheBun. You want to find people to play with? You need to be sociable and do more than just want to be part of a hunting group. You want to find some friends that sometimes you can just chat with. I do not duobox and don't intend to either. I never have trouble finding a LIVE buffer when I go hunting. I know several of them, in different clans. But I am always willing to take time and befriend people.
Sometimes I just sit in Giran and chat with 2-3 people at once, not doing anything but being there.
I also disagree that support classes are XP leeches. Hell, one of my favorite things to do at the moment is go and take on the an entire room in Branded and aggro everything on me (did I mention I don't use poles). I would not survive for very long if not for my buffs buddies. I also invite the buffers to come and WHACK the critters while I am doing so. Sure, they don't do much damage, but every bit counts. That is what my clan elders have taught me when I started out. I firmly believe that support classes easily earn their pay. I also firmly my toon is awesome because support classes help me to be awesome. My success is their success as well.
Lone support class out there asks if there is space in MY group? There always IS more room in MY groups. An extra buffer/healer just means I will go pick on something bigger and nastier. It also means we can support more damage dealers and tanks, resulting in faster kills and more XP and loot.
I have a cleric that will go for prophet one day. I usually only play that toon with clannies to support them. Do I mind only that I inflict one tenth of the damage the others do? Not at all, because at the end of the day, I know that I kept them alive and in one piece. I also buff random people in cities and in catacombs when they say hello. The Shillien Elders are always happy to receive Acumen from me and often return the favor with Empower. Do I have to do that? Not at all. But I do it because I feel like it. And people appreciate it. And the next time they want to go to hunt something and they see me, they often ask me if I want to join them.
*APPLAUDS*
THIS is the kind of player I like to help. I will spend hours helping a lower lvl player like this. THIS is the kind of player I like to party with. I am without a doubt tempermental ingame, but meeting someone like Vicktor is what keeps me going to the low lvl areas and helping TRUE new players. Appreciation for what each class brings to the group and not just exp, exp, EXP!
I've started several alts, just so I can help healers get a group, since all self exping classes take free buffs from high lvl buffers or dualbox instead of partying with same/near lvl buffer/healers.
We who are about to buff and heal you, Salute you! :D
I seem to recall a group in cruma which was 4 clerics, 1 SO and one EK ;)
My old clan leader, actually two of them, use to run groups that should have been pretty awful, a tank, dwarves, sws, and 2 bishops, EE, SE. Some of the best exp though.
I tried to be nice about this, but seeing how this thread is still going I'll tell you why I box, and "WILL NOT"grp up with a healer outside of the people who play in this household (5 accounts).
Like i said earlier, I couldnt Beg or buy a group or healers to run with. So playing a SK without a healer (besides my bro who made an alt to help me out with b4 i got my second account). I wiould hollar LFG for hours, get dissapointed and go play by myself again and again. Your clans and healers were never there and ignored me for too long.
So now ALL you healers and buffers out there can kiss my overpriced A grade Soul Shot and hopefully you have learned something from all this..
(Yea i know i said i'd be leaving when VanGuard comes out, I was sooo disapointed to see that it plays almost identical to EQ)
Playing an EE I have some idea how hard it might be to find a group, although I'm now in the best clan I've pretty much been in. My clan know how hard it is for healers and buffers to solo, and if they know I'm coming they'll box an SE for buffs but they'll put me in group instead of their buffer. They realise that they need me as much as I need them. Do you people box your buffers and healers during sieges and other pvp as well?
Can't imagine that works as well as having a live healer behind you.
Lately I've been having an issue finding parties as Heirophant (Prophet). Despite my sweet buffs, +4 str,+4 dex,-8 con so i can help DD, and the fact I try to be really nice to people who play with me.....I don't get parties, no more than the occasional 45 minute duo.
And I have the reason why, it's not because Warcryers are overpowered, it's because of 2-boxed prophets (or buffers in general). This is a very serious issue that is hindering the enjoyment of the game for MANY players who enjoy the holy class of prophet.
Here's what I saw today while looking for party in Goddard.
Don't start with the 'omg there aren't enough prophets so i have to box one!" crap, look at the waiting list tards. And none of that "i'd invite a real prophet if one was LFG" crap either, I've seen "FRIENDS" running by me in groups with 2-boxed buffers on their trails at least 10 times. Also, none of that "I only use it to solo because I cant play much"; this is bull because no one plays an MMO to solo all the time unless they bot.
This is a serious problem that needs to be adressed NCSoft; here's a few solutions.
#1. Make a reportable offence out of 2-boxing and refusing a similiar level player a party.
#2. Make off-party buffing impossible by making buffs not work if the buffer is not in party ( add a feature where d/c'd players stay in party 5 minutes for safety).
#3. Make buffs level based, such as a level 58 buffer can't buff a level 70 player (perhaps 12 lvls limit).
#4. Give prophets and shillien elders something that helps them deal damage, such as warcryer's Soul Cry; just give it another name.
#5. Make buffs from out-of-party buffers take exp. It's only fair because it's how they do damage...with their buffs...
To all who truly care; I thank you. To all who think buffers are a waste of Exp; I'll see you in Hell =)
I personally have a boxed pp so I feel guilty.
But I agree, a 77 prophet GG i would love that in my group, and also props for leveling aprophet to 77! you are a god. I simply could not do that, I would go crayza.
Unless you party ALOT im sure it would be kinda fun.