I recently started playing Lineage 2 again. I use to play back when C1 was out, but quit before C2.
Please bare with all my questions, I would really appreciate if anyone here could take the time to answer me. I'm trying to analyze the classes as much as possible before I level too far; to ensure I haven't made a hasty decision.
I made a Shillien Mystic and I'm planning on going Shillien Elder.. and I play with a friend who made a Shillien as well and is planning to make a Bladedancer. But he may go PR instead. Or perhaps AW. I may switch to another healer class..
What I'd like to ask regarding my healer is this:
- Is it a smart choice to make a Shillien Elder as my main character and as a healer?
- Is EE or Bishop and/or Prophet better? If so, how and why?
- I'd like to be a good healer in both pve and pvp, since we both enjoy to pvp quite a bit. SE a good choice or no?
- PVP, best healer?.. or at the very least try to rank the current healers in pvp situations. 1. SE 2. Bishop etc. Thanks!
- PVE, best healer?.. or at the very least try to rank the current healers in pve situations. 1. EE 2. SE etc. Thanks!
- I'd like to fit into groups at higher levels as well... along with my friend. SE a good choice or..? Try to rank the healers here too if possible.
Bladedancer/DPS/Tank:
- Will I duo best with a bladedancer or a phantom ranger or a abyss walker?
- If my friend chose to make a PR; will we get groups as easily.. or would it be better if he went BD?
- Are SE's/BD's wanted for groups much at all? Or is SE/PR just fine? Or any other combo's? .. I.e prophet/pr, prophet/bd, bishop/bd, ee/bd?
Overall I'd like to know if SE will remain a strong healer in both PVE and PVP for a long time to come. Also in groups and duo situations? And.. compared to the other healing classes in L2. Also, what class (preferable shillien) would I fit with best in a duo for pve and pvp.
to be honest from my exp i found buffer/healers generly dont last much in pvp i know im told to kill them first and they normay dont stand a chance. But for a class with good buffs and some pvp skills id try a WC if i were you. As for ur friend BDs are always welcome into party/clans before there other classes hey are great at pvp and the dances assist any class. but to put the buffers u have listed in order id say a 1 prophet 2 se 3 bish but truthfuly it all depends on what class ur assisting. As a Prophet would be better towards a AW and a PR and the SE is far better in the melee DD classes. But really its up to yourself and what u enjoy.
Ps WC get both haste and VR and good luck
Thanks for your reply. Well, I considered making a WC, but I decided I want to be able to heal more then what a WC is able to do.
Any chance you could tell me from personal experience and what you know; would a SE together with a BD do well if they got attacked by.. let's say, two archers or two nukers? My main concern is how a BD and a SE would have no range attacks except for wind blast, etc. Watching the BD getting kited around can't be too fun.. obviously there's snare spells and such, but you get my drift.
Also, I'm reading that SE was nerfed with C5 and that Greater Heal is not as good as it use to be.. and thus Major Heal (Bishop/EE) is the way to go for the harder exp areas and also the most intense pvp battles?
If you'll be duoing your friend, and he goes any melee class, you'll want your Shillien Elder or a WarCryer for VR. (The WC gets the buffs at later levels, but gets Haste as well as VR. This saves a great deal of $$ on alacrity pots or GSAP.)
If he goes archer, your VR won't be of any assistance (it doesn't work with ranged attacks) and Haste and Zerk are your best friends, so you'll want a prophet.
If you'll be pvping a lot, consider a bishop for the fast heals and good rez, but you won't have much in the way of buffs to help him level. (Focus 1 & Zerk 1, compared to the Focus 3, Deathwhisper 3, and Zerk 2 of a prophet.)
Do you feel that the buffs SE have will outshine the heals EE's/Bishop's get? I'd like the most ideal duo combination.. but with certain restrictions:
- I want myself to play a healer. WC is nice, but I do not consider them healers. So there's SE/EE/PP/Bishop
- My friend really wants to play a shillien insert-damage-class-here (preferable BD or perhaps PR)
- We'd love to have a strong duo. It's possible more friends will join us later on and then we can add other classes. But for now we have a total of two players.
- While we want a strong duo we also want to be able to join groups at later levels and also be wanted in the top guild(s).
- I've noticed that as a SE you surely cast a lot slower then Bishop's (Had a level 65 in C1).
- Prophets lack in the healing department at later levels. I know this very well. EE's outshine SE's too.. but by just a little or a lot? Bishop's heals for the most.
- Will we level a lot slower if we go Bishop/Bladedancer, compared to SE/BD or EE/BD?.
I realise the things I mentioned above is a bit complicated. But that's the way I look at it right now. Also, I have barely no knowledge whatsoever of all the changes since C2 to C5. I've tried to play catch up by reading the patch notes, but I doubt that is enough to get an accurate understanding of how it really is like.
SilverWolf here is right on about the SE vs Prophet and yes the SE was nerfed pretty bad with there heals and there sleep. Now as for a SE/PR vs 2 archers or two nukers id say no chance unless u had lvlvs and gear on them than mabey a small chance. but either the class u will get a Root skill to stop them from running if ur able to cast it. Also the BD gets a root of there own i belive 70+...but if u plan to take it into pvp more than pve id go Bish
Ok for what u want i would for sure go BD and SE youll have a strong duo and would be invited to nearly any party or clan. as well they are great with a group.
But if I go Bishop we will level a lot slower as a duo, due to the lack of buffs correct? And, would it be best to go Bishop/BD or Bishop/PR? In terms of pvp survivability and pve progression (hah, progression). Also in terms of desirability at later levels for group-based pvp and pve.
Bish/BD i think would be better yes party would be harder to get since u dont have the buffs and lvling would take longer but a high lvl bishop are rare and hard to come by theres nutting like a 95% skill rez or 1k heals every few seconds
Alright thanks for your recommendations and help SirBlazeAlot. I will check back and read this post tomorrow and then make my final decision. I'm most likely sticking to my initial plans of making a SE. I truly enjoy healing though - and I'm worried SE's was nerfed bigtime in that department.
SE is only buffer+healer. their buffs are good enough for melees (just buy swift pots) and the heals are more then enough, usualy. for the duo, there is no other choice. you need vr, so skip bish, PP and EE. only WC or SE will do. me, would do a wc. WC are not a bad DD either, so you would kill a lot faster. even tho, WCs get their buffs later, but at the end, WCs gets a lot better buffs then a SE. and a BD+WC can duo very well. WC got their life chant, and thats enough for a duo I would say.
I myself made an SE to box with my Destroyer. It was great until the mid-50s. Then I started realzing something was lacking. After doing some research, I have created a WC to box with the Destroyer. About the healing part:
There is some give-and-take wirh all the healer-buffer classes. At higher levels, I came to realize, no one healer/buffer is going to be enough to grind the really tough places really well in a duo. They are all missing some buffs or not strong enough in healing power. So if you go for a good buffer that matches the toon you want to duo or box with, at least you can level faster when you're duoing. And when you get into a party, there will usually be plenty of other toons around with healing power.
My advice, go with WC for duoing with melees, SE for nukers, and maybe WC or Prophet for an Archer. (I'm not quite as sure for Archers.) My research seems to show that EEs have giid healing power, but there buffs are more defensive. Nothing wrong with that, but VR and good offensive buffs are a better defense for duoing with fighters, IMO.
prophet for archers. I dont se WC beeing very good for buffing archers.
I have been thinking many times to roll an WC to come along with my melee DDs, instead of having both my PP and SE come. BUT, Im so used to zerk nowdays, I dont think I could level without it >.<
for melee, PP+SE if you want the best, WC if you only can take one char along. SE if you dont wanna spend very much time leveling your buffer, you only want the very main buffs.
prophet for archers. I dont se WC beeing very giid for buffing archers.
Warcryers are only good for archers when their are dances/songs/Queen next to it. Then they do really shine.
Don't forget a Warcryer buffs Haste2 as well.
ofc. warcryares are the overall best buffer, I think. but, they lack zerk (and holy wep, blesses and ww), and zerk is pretty important for archers in PvE.
but yea, they are still very good buffers, but for archers PP>>>>>WC
ofc. warcryares are the overall best buffer, I think. but, they lack zerk, and zerk is pretty important for archers in PvE.
but yea, they are still very good buffers, but for archers PP>>>>>WC
Zerk blows imo. It doesn't add enough anymore since they nerfed it with C5.
o.O
its my darling buff, THE buff :) and Im not even playing an archer hehe...well, I like the buff..I havent realy noticed any change from c4/c5 but I havent been looking into it either (guess i missed it in the patchnotes)
btw it cant blow for archers. less pdef/mdef? who cares, archers dont get hit in PvE anyway, or should not.
prophet for archers. I dont se WC beeing very giid for buffing archers.
wc has all buffs for dmg as pp (only zerk hes missing but he got other buffs for dmg that pp doesnt have)
and for the question hmm
at first place play a char that you like to pla
SE is best for pve but weakest for pvp, SE buffs are on higher lvs not so rare coz other classes have SE buffs too at the end, SE just get tham sooner than others but still can recharge at the end and help with heals
EE is nice for pve coz of buffs and good for pvp coz of heals and buffs that no other class will have, can recharge and has sleep
BP is 90% for heals so the greatest class for pvp heals, but they are rare and any clan would welcome you as BP, in C6 bishop gets more love so if you wanna end this game in big clan that likes pvp go bp
WC is a buffer and DD in one person, it has nearly all dmg buffs as PP does and some more and WC has also all 3 armor masteries and can make a nice dmg, also has a sleep skill that was not nerfed and 78+ WC are just wanted, WC are the best party buffers in game, theyr party heal is stronger than SEs party heals on same lv
PP - are best one target buffers, if they are buffed in heavy armor thay can be nice DDs too so you can play tham as buffer and as DD too, but PP are not healers, they can help with heals and save lives with that but theyr heal ends on 35lv after that are only buffs, but you can still play him as DD in contrast to SE and EE
at the end you can go also OL but thats a hard class to play but have the best buffs for ally/clan
but you will be lookin at your char every day so the animations and textures are important too :p
PP vs WC for archer.
zerk, ww, blesses, holy wep, and they get their buffs a lot earlier.
only buff needed for an archer that WC gets and not PP, is chant of victory (is name correct? and evasion I guess) and Im not sure i would use it for a duo, would be a **** expensive buff for only 1 DD.
PP vs WC for archer.
zerk, ww, blesses, holy wep, and they get their buffs a lot earlier.
only buff needed for an archer that WC gets and not PP, is chant of victory (is name correct? and evasion I guess) and Im not sure i would use it for a duo, would be a **** expensive buff for only 1 DD.
holy weapon has effect only on close combat or not? :eek:
anyways, to the OP, if you wanna play both buffer and healer SE is your class, I guess. they dont heal bad, but they have a heal-over-time. the overall healing is actualy 120% of what it was in c3 (I think its 120%) but now it takes, um, 15 sec I think, for the full heal to apply. so if you heal twice i na row, you would get 60%+120% = 180% heal (correct me on the numbers if Im wrong), compared to 200% heal in pre c3. so, in PvP, i would say SE heals are not as good as they used to be, and a lot worse then bish and EE.
for single-target melee, they are still very good, maybe the best? cheap(no ore used) and high HP heal (over time) but a bit slow, SE has very slow casting speed. what SEs are realy bad at, is healing in polepartys, where you have to heal a lot in the beginning, and your mana will drain fast.
PP vs WC for archer.
zerk, ww, blesses, holy wep, and they get their buffs a lot earlier.
only buff needed for an archer that WC gets and not PP, is chant of victory (is name correct? and evasion I guess) and Im not sure i would use it for a duo, would be a **** expensive buff for only 1 DD.
holy weapon has effect only on close combat or not? :eek:
nope its a attackspeed/pattack buff, no mather what class you are. (unless it was changed in c5? o.O)
o.O
its my darling buff, THE buff :) and Im not even playing an archer hehe...well, I like the buff..I havent realy noticed any change from c4/c5 but I havent been looking into it either (guess i missed it in the patchnotes)
btw it cant blow for archers. less pdef/mdef? who cares, archers dont get hit in PvE anyway, or should not.
Less evasion too, In a raid less M Def can conflict big damage, it is a malconception people always think archers never get hit in PvE.
Well news update for you all, that is a myth. The less P Def or M Def we have, the more we die. Archers are not invincible.
ofc you die :) with stupid pulls! j/k ;)
what I meant is, its not as important to archers/nukers as it is to melees.
That is true, still I always so NO to Zerk on my SE or HE, on my TH I'd say yes, cause the speed together with VR makes up for the less P Def, so more damage taken.
So... before I level too much, what class would everyone (anyone?) recommend me to make if I want to be very viable in small and large(group) scale pvp and also in small and large scale pve?..
.. Bishop, EE (prefer not, I dislike how they look), or SE? Prophets appear to lack in heals.
Where can I find what Bishops and the other classes gain in C6?
I really do not want to feel shafted when it come to healing. Nor be shafted when it come to grouping - in the sense that I prefer being needed.
SE's can heal , but that's about it, their buffs are still viable but personally I don't believe an SE has much endgame content, that's why my previous main is kinda stuck in high 60's.
A PP is a great buffer, and as Hierophant in endgame PvP a force to be reckoned with. Their heals are less then those of SE's though.
Elven Elder is a great healer, and very wanted in end game, Bishop has the best heals available and also very wanted by many clans at higher levels.
You can say EE and Bish starts to be good when SE skills are maxed out (So from 61+ on)
Any idea where I can read about the changes made to all classes in Interlude? Also, what would you recommend me to make right now? Taking Interlude into account.
Any idea where I can read about the changes made to all classes in Interlude? Also, what would you recommend me to make right now? Taking Interlude into account.
Certainly not an SE. We got nerfed heals with C5, they will nerf Death Whisper effect in Interlude, + the inability to recharge us while hunting. And we have practically no endgame content to look forward too.
A PP will always be wanted as their buffs just are that good. Bishop or EE depends of your style, they shall both be good in Interlude.
Changes for Interlude are a bit scattered info, but you should be able to find some stuff in the Interlude section.
Mind elaborating on styles? I enjoy healing, but I also want to be able to last long (survival and to heal for a long time before downtime.. no VR will be bad no?) and bring a lot to the table. Be it in a duo or a larger group. I plan to play with a bladedancer, or what other class do you feel is better to duo with.. melee preferable. Treasure Hunter perhaps or Swordsinger?
What do Bishops and EE gain in the next expansion?
Any idea where I can read about the changes made to all classes in Interlude? Also, what would you recommend me to make right now? Taking Interlude into account.
hmm bishop they will just rock in C6, but you have to take him to 50+
if you want fun in low lvs take SE :)
if you want fun and buffs but low heals take PP or WC
Ok so bishop it is. Thank you. Now, what melee class would fit best with me to duo and pvp together at later levels? Bladedancer, Phantom Ranger, Treasure Hunter, Hawk Eye... ?
Mind elaborating on styles? I enjoy healing, but I also want to be able to last long (survival and to heal for a long time before downtime.. no VR will be bad no?) and bring a lot to the table. Be it in a duo or a larger group. I plan to play with a bladedancer, or what other class do you feel is better to duo with.. melee preferable. Treasure Hunter perhaps or Swordsinger?
What do Bishops and EE gain in the next expansion?
Wow lots of questions in one sentence there. Let me try to explain.
VR is a really good healing buff for melees, both provided by WC or SE. In PvE melee party's an SE that gives VR2-3 (VR4 is overkill imo) will be good enough to heal till the real high lvls. So situationally you will still be favoured in PvE at higher lvls over a Bish-EE.
If you want to bring a lot to the table, then you should look into the end game content. An SE fails miserably there as endgame is PvP, the casting speed and healing power of a Bishop/Elven Elder far outwheigs the small heals an SE or PP can do.
An SE best xp comes from duoing with a nuker (Empower-Recharge). Bladedancers and Swordsingers are assisting chars on their own, so if you want to party with them, you will probably be in a very big party anyway. So then your advantage fades away a bit. I think most people agree, that in a 9 people party, an SE will very rarely be the only buffer available.
Hope that kinda replies to your question.
EDIT towards your last post
You don't pvp in duo...
So... before I level too much, what class would everyone (anyone?) recommend me to make if I want to be very viable in small and large(group) scale pvp and also in small and large scale pve?..
There is no such healer classes (Warcryer is the closest, though).
Speaking about healers viable in PvP... well, EE+BD is an ok PvE duo. Not great, but ok, especially on undeads.
.. Bishop, EE (prefer not, I dislike how they look), or SE?
Bishop if you want to be the main target in large-scale PvPs. EE if you want to be good in PvP, but still to be able to find some rare random groups in PvE (make a female toon, though). SE if you want to level to 60+ really fast, and then whine in the forums about lack of both PvE and PvP groups for you.
Where can I find what Bishops and the other classes gain in C6?
Interlude forum here.
I really do not want to feel shafted when it come to healing. Nor be shafted when it come to grouping - in the sense that I prefer being needed.
Then you need to play another game.
And there is another class you can consider playing: Phantom Summoner.
Hmm Vital you sure you aint confusing yourself, do you want to be a buffer, or a healer.
if you want to be a buffer, Prophet, WC, or SE.
If you want to be a healer, Bishop or EE. Bishop is the strongest healer in game, they however have no more important buffs then Wind Walk, EE got a few defensive buffs and second best heals ingame.
Why I don't nominate SE as a healer is because... LOL they are far from any PVP healer now days, sure they can somewhat heal PVE... but there heal in PVP is pointless. There buffs however is really good for small parties, or nukers in general, perfect buxed char, sad but true.
Prophet and WC is a true buffer, both have benefits, WC for buffing faster and got VR eg. But both ain't healers either, they got heal, but really weak ones.
So anyhow what I want to ask is, do you want to be a buffer, or a healer?
My friend wants to play a strong melee class that is viable/wanted in both pve and pvp. And that can duo pretty ok with me. Any suggestions for my friend? Bladedancer is what we're thinking currently. We're aiming high. Most likely trying to get to the cap eventually. I'm well aware of the grind, since I use to play this game quite a bit.
I want to be a healer, but also be able to duo pretty well with my friend. Eventually I see us getting to know more people or bring more people into our party.. but, we will duo together for a pretty long time (up to 50 or more is my guess) unless we meet some nice people to group up with.
Buffs are fine to have - I simply do not feel SE's are good enough after reading what all of you have said here. So that leaves me with EE and Bishop to fit my style of play. However, will EE's increase our rate of leveling by a long shot - or in the end is it worthwhile to go through the "pain" of leveling slower to get the best heals as a Bishop?
Not sure if I'm elaborate enough, and yes I'm slightly confused =) thanks for helping me out still.
Ok so bishop it is. Thank you. Now, what melee class would fit best with me to duo and pvp together at later levels? Bladedancer, Phantom Ranger, Treasure Hunter, Hawk Eye... ?
Thanks again
for duo bd, its easyer to find good party for BD than for others dds, but bp is not a char for duo partys, it will shine in pvp, siege, rift, raids and places that are normaly too risky for your party
yes you can dou with any class also 2 PPs can duo well but most of the time L2 is not about duo if you really want some fun from this game
If you really want to play a healer as a matter of. um, personal style, then I agree with the others who say go Bishop or EE. I will add, I partied with a Bishop once, and their mana regen was a real issue. Very slow, so we wound up all sitting for several minutes from time-to-time.
Two things to remember:
1) The right buffs cut way down on the amount of healing needed, so unless you just realy want to play a healer, still consider the WC or PP for duoing with melee. With the herbs and VR, plus attack speed, accuracy, etc, keeping the HP up on most open fields won't be an issue anyway. (If you do just want to play a healer for, don't let me or anybody else deter you. I play a Destroyer myself, which is not exactly a popular path.)
2) I don't know that a WC's problem with healing is weakness, at least for PVE. It isn't really strong either, just, um, average. It is heal-over-time, which might be an issue for low-hp classes. But the real issue is, WC buffs take so much mana, that healing has to be a secondary role for a WC.
I will add, I partied with a Bishop once, and their mana regen was a real issue. Very slow, so we wound up all sitting for several minutes from time-to-time.
True and not true. We bishops seem to need more time to regen, because if we are in groups that aren't well put together or don't have some sort of vr, we are doing some serious but-saving. So we are using our MP a lot more than an SE would (usually.) Also, fully buffed, my mp pool is close to 6k, so yeah, if you use that up, we will be sitting for 10 minutes before I am full again. ( I regen mp at 20 a tick, anyone got better?)
Every class in this game is pretty much dependent on VR for fast, no downtime, group levelling. What you may want to think about with SE vital, is that you will still have a strong root. For an archer, thats perfect for when they pull too much. Or when they need MP, the prophet and warcrier can only sit down and wait on regen as well.
All sorts of scenarios, but the best advice I can give you is to play what you want, because that friend won't be there all the time.
If you two are going to duo a lot, i would go PR/Prophet combo. If you as a prophet are not going to do more than 2 or 3 man groups you can be a great asset because you can put on heavy and duals and kick some but. The PR will love you for the buffs and your root. Its a great duo party and both of you will get groups and pvp will be fun. Especially in sieging.
P.S. if you duo with a PR, you wont have to be the best healer, the prophet heals will be fine and you wont have to worry about mana much either. My opinions are for you duoing.
You shouldn't run out of mp as a bishop, unless the group is bad. It happens. I find it amusing that people think any form of sitting ever is bad, use to have some good times resting up in Cruma pre ss spamming and "perfect" groups.
Anyway I have a cardinal and we have ALL the best heals. (I'm not gonna get into buffs because everyone else has). Every last one. Major heal, major group heal, greater heal, greater group heal, benediction, greater battle heal, restore life, vitalize, balance life, body of avatar (because it also heals). Best rez, mass rez. Purify. You are A GOD at raids and epic raids, no two ways about it. Even at sieges, if you have a decent amount of people you can do pretty well. If people know you, yeah you'll probably go down first but it's not completely hopeless.
EE's get major heal, greater heal, and only the baby group heal and battle heal from 30ish. Their major heal can be as fast as a bishops battle heal with a speed set up. They also get vitalize, and the second best rez. They have the best recharge because of speed and good mana regen. No purify. Much, much more common than bishops. I think our clan has like 10 EE's and 3 bishops, seriously.
SE's get no major heals at all, greater heal, greater group heal, baby battle heal from 30ish. Purify. Crap rez, slow heals. VR makes up for that at least in melee groups.
So imo as far as healers go, bishops are the best, then EE, then SE. All have their own little problems getting levelled either due to all the boxed healers out there, or just flat out not being needed in most parties (bishop).
Umm yeah...I wont be on my card until im noblesse and possibly hero :P. Watching my alliance get scattered like roaches was something that really interested me in trying, soon.
In a duo you won't see much difference in heals from an EE or Bishop. Later on once you get a bigger group you will want the Bishop.
The EE has good buffs, and good crowd control.
If you want to level fast you should go PP for haste and zerk. Also varous potions and herbs drop in some areas now that can make leveling for small groups/solo much easier.
The BD is DD/tank class, though they use duals. SwS are the LE verion of the BD, they can use one handed weapons and a shield making them a better match for duo with EE.
PVP is mostly archers and nukers though, melees have a hard time gettinng close enough to do anything.
As an Sh Saint i have to say that we lvl rather easily, we have rather good buffs and to some extent heals. we duo good, but dont fall in love, we are bad buffers and bad healers in terms of big party, we even bad rechargers, we are jack of all trades, you just have to love us.
in pvp the best thing is buff every1 what they need, go into battle spamming heals, and after 1-10sec press "go to tawn"
playing a BD+bishop will be hard in the long run, or at least slow. go for it if you want.
BD+WC in the other hand, will be close to a perfect duo. fast buffs, you can heal a bit, enough for your duo for sure, and you both are good DDs with dances.