at what point do you think you lose when you actually win?
Never.
If I can fulfil my primary strategical goals, I won. Otherwise, I lost. No ambiguity here.
The outcome of a single specific battle is irrelevant.
Exactly!
If someone else diverts you from what you intended to accomplish--you 'lose' (relative to what you wanted/needed to do).
If you know you need to grind/manor and you run off on a whim to 'teach some lowbie/ganker/griefer' a lession and end up spending 2 million adena and goofing off all over the map--you can try to convince yourself you 'won' but in my book you lost big time!
In the Nameless's initial post that asks "if you went out to collect some wartags and killed some people but had to BSOE..."---in that example since killing was your goal and these days BSOE is what most do--I'm assuming you did what you intended. I would say that was a win.
When others dictate your choices and you have outcomes worse than you intended--you have CHOSEN to lose (at which point in L2 you should blame "hdfhdfhdg")
When others dictate your choices and you have outcomes worse than you intended--you have CHOSEN to lose (at which point in L2 you should blame "hdfhdfhdg")
haha
that guys the reason my pvp score is so low :P
+6 today all of them 4% and somehow i feel that i have lost :/
In L2 is that there is no real win or lose. There is no point where someone will get the merit badge and be able to prance around telling everyone else they /pwned them.
There is however winning and losing. As in, one clan or ally can be winning over another, in that they are accomplishing their goals, while their proclaimed enemy is not.
What it really comes down to is goals. Each player, clan, and ally has their goals. When they are accomplishing them, they are winning, and when they are not, they are losing.
Speaking strictly for myself, I PvP for alot of different reasons. Sometimes it's just for the fun of it, in this case, I always win, whether I die, BSOE, or kill the other guy. Sometimes I PvP with the intent of taking XP from my enemy and/or interrupting their XP time, or even to cause discontent within the enemy clan/ally. Sometimes I PvP because I am defending myself. Sometimes it's over a hunting spot or a room. Hell there's a ton of reasons to PvP.
That reason, and whether or not I fulfilled it, is what leaves me with the feeling of whether I have won or lost.
Anyways the point you win is when the other person starts giving up. As well you win when you kill your opponent when they are trying to exp.
If both of you keep pvping and are enjoying it then it's a win win.
This game is about financial gain. You are winning when you get better gear and levels over the other player. So gaining castles, killing raid bosses gives you points. Going red and dropping your DC Helmet is negative points....
And buying adena and botting is instant disqualification.
You win if you have the same clan tag as me. Otherwise it's a safe bet that you lost or are about to. If you don't play on Bartz, you are just a loser.
You lose when you have regrets or are ashamed of what you have done.
You win when you preserve your pride, dignity, and honor. If an enemy sends a PM after a fight congratulating you for your efforts, whether you lived or died, you win.
I think you also "win" by your actions in other aspects outside PvP. For example, going into a dangerous area to rez a fallen comrade, helping someone avoid death by pitching in on a fight, etc.
L2 is a community where your actions in war, peace, and neutrality all play a factor.
You win when you still hold whatever the objective is, IE, Castle Contested Clan Hall or Hunting spot. Otherwise, you are just wasting valuable time. I fail to understand the concept of the gank group personally, since yes..you -1% me and took a rep point from my clan, but while you were giving me -1% (.05% with CH rez) your gank group of X# of people did not gain any XP either and chances are good that I had been XPing there for a while anyway and was already +XP before you got to me.
Meanwhile, that 1 rep point is meaningless as most players can run a toon from 1-40 in less than a week and collect full Reps for the clan. Or the clan can go and do raid bosses that give reps and not care about that 1 rep point.
Not that long ago, I was in beast farm soloing and picked up a Majestic helmet rec, about 5 mins later I was dropped by a 78 Archer, so I lost .05% 1 rep point, and cared not at all because I still had 60m in my pocket. I went back to BH, rebuffed and went right back to hunting and had the .05 back in a buffset.
You win when you still hold whatever the objective is, IE, Castle Contested Clan Hall or Hunting spot. Otherwise, you are just wasting valuable time. I fail to understand the concept of the gank group personally, since yes..you -1% me and took a rep point from my clan, but while you were giving me -1% (.05% with CH rez) your gank group of X# of people did not gain any XP either and chances are good that I had been XPing there for a while anyway and was already +XP before you got to me.
Meanwhile, that 1 rep point is meaningless as most players can run a toon from 1-40 in less than a week and collect full Reps for the clan. Or the clan can go and do raid bosses that give reps and not care about that 1 rep point.
Not that long ago, I was in beast farm soloing and picked up a Majestic helmet rec, about 5 mins later I was dropped by a 78 Archer, so I lost .05% 1 rep point, and cared not at all because I still had 60m in my pocket. I went back to BH, rebuffed and went right back to hunting and had the .05 back in a buffset.
And if he would have been there 6 min earlier you would not have gotten the maj helm rec. If you were a nuker with an adena field, a very stupid thing to do when you are at war, god knows how much you would have lost.
Just the other day I was on my SM spy running ahead of 1 of our gank groups and the other people ended up pring. They left 500k+ adena laying on the floor at mos+some nice mats.
If you wouldn't have been ganked, you might have gained 2 maj helm recs.
Thats true but what do the gankers get as a reward? Preventing you from getting 120mill and only 60mill? They don't have a chance to get any reward (unless nuker adena field).
Gankers gain no exp while ganking. Spend adena porting using soulshots, pots and bsoe's. The people being ganked lose some exp maybe but they were exping and rarely do people end up with less exp when they set themselves to exp. Even if you are at war with 30 clans you can still manage to get positive exp.
Ever since the latest patch with the cp pots and elixers I've had a harder time enjoying PvP outside siege and olympiad.
Thats true but what do the gankers get as a reward? Preventing you from getting 120mill and only 60mill? They don't have a chance to get any reward (unless nuker adena field).
Gankers gain no exp while ganking. Spend adena porting using soulshots, pots and bsoe's. The people being ganked lose some exp maybe but they were exping and rarely do people end up with less exp when they set themselves to exp. Even if you are at war with 30 clans you can still manage to get positive exp.
Ever since the latest patch with the cp pots and elixers I've had a harder time enjoying PvP outside siege and olympiad.
they gain a slightly more frustrated enemy. They gain an enemies members complaining in vent. They gain bragging rights. They gain video footage. They hurt their enemy and helped their ally. Is it monetary? Not really. Is it xp? No. It's helping them win a war.
Also people do level on gank runs. I've looked at my xp bar and see I have gained 10% and have done nothing but chase people out of xp spots for the past few days. A lot of times we will send a pvp party to make enemies pr then xp where they were until are spys find them again. Then we go chase them out of a new spot and level there. Repeat...
All it is is hurting your enemy. You gain when they are hurt.
you win when you find a wartag running a bot program that auto-accepts rez, and get all of their rep points in one night. you win when there are five of them and one of you and they bsoe or die, regardless of how many cp pots you used. you win when you go up against red x5 mobs and players 10 or more levels against you, regardless of the outcome. sometimes, when you get killed, you actually win (like when someone goes red on you then his party members kill him twice just to work the karma off) you lose when instead of being mildly annoyed that you got killed, you get so angered by the game that it effects real life. loser.
Not being afraid to die is a winner. Provoking ur own death is a loser. Spamming CP and GCP pots is an exhibition of the rich towards the poor player (loser).
I win when I accomplish the goals I've set for myself. (Mostly xp/playsession)
If an enemy comes and kills me I don't lose (even though the enemy that killed me might think of me as a loser). It's just a minor set back that I'll have to overcome.
If I kill an enemy I don't win. It's just merely a way towards the goal I've set to myself.
If an enemy gank squad kills me I win. I'm so important that they have to send a gank squad to kill me! :p
'victory is mine!' when you change the politcal structure of your server so as to gain more allies and discourage more enemies to the end point of having more toons on your side during the seige which results in your side taking more territory and dominating the servers landscape. securing that situation and taking the entire map. holding it until you are ready to play l3.
Financial gain is only important to some people. I have, on my main, what will most likely be the last weapon and set of armour I will ever buy in L2, and I'm happy with that.
Levels, I dont care so much about, my skill-set from here to end-game sucks, so NCS has provided absolutely zero motivation or reason for it.
I've had some fun in my time in Aden thus far, so I've won.