I’d like to propose the following Thread and ask folks to be constructive, but I’d also ask that NC allow players to be honest without locking or removing it.
Where are we?
Many of us enjoy this game tremendously, but we are also not 100% satisfied with our experiences. The potential is here, but slowly the game seems to be bleeding to death in our minds. L3 is a long ways off and unless some changes happen many are liable to jump ship as new games come out. I know we are the red headed step child of Korea. However way back in open beta and prelude we were told and have been again and again, that we had a voice about what happens in the US, but it seems more often than not the US has no voice.
The game is a good game at heart, but it has its flaws. I’m not going to talk about class extreme issues; I will only look at it from a mechanic stand point:
1) Every class should be able solo some type of mob, there is always times where one can not find a group, and still wants to play. But one of the large problems is not all classes can solo or even duo at higher levels safely. (I’ll talk about population later) NC has done a great job with this with some classes like EE’s with the 25% kills on undead. The problem is at high levels the only place to hunt is in imperial tomb. (77+) I know 2 DA’s who are excited about the same prospect with angles in interlude. But what about the rest, Dwarf’s especially who have such limited skill sets, because they provide x service? Is this reason because, 95% of dwarfs are farmers or what? Many a US dwarf has succumbed to “my class sucks to play” long before they ever make it to where they finally have some skills at 76-78.
2) Population is becoming a large issue on some servers, many servers are so under populated that a class system has evolved. One major alliance with 70% of the nobles and hero’s dominating the server. Only 4 servers have avoided this 2 are new servers and 2 old with the largest populations originally. However even on those there are signs of the strain. The real player population is so low it is almost impossible to find a group or someone willing to group because grouping is so anti-fast exp for the classes who can duo, which sets the stage for an entirely different set of problems.
3) I know bots are bad and several friends have fallen pray to the ban hammer recently, some problems though are systematic! NC does not seem to be addressing the problems facing players thus more and more players turn to the dark side after years of honest play because 1000 farmers per server can’t be wrong and level 80 already on both noble toons is well unnatural unless you have a toilet for a seat, or are a college student with nothing to do for 16 hours a day. Ok, that’s about right 4 hours class 4 hours sleep. I’ll give you the last one. But you see where I’m going here those that have life and want fun should go where?
Players are choosing to bot or drag (boting a healer) after 2 years, because they see no way to have even the slightest chance of keeping up with only 4 or 5 hours a day to play.
Players are choosing to bot or drag because they can never-never find a group and X class cant solo or duo.
New Players choosing to bot or drag, because after reaching level 70 they still get hit for 6000 damage.
4) Hero’s some love them some hate them, but every server I know had the best sieges when they were gone for that week. Hero skills especially Fear and UD are so game unbalancing that at some castles a group of 9 hero’s can hold out forever. I know most folks would still try for hero just for the hero weapon advantage for the month.
Example: Unless your willing at Aden and Hein to go through the front door, all a noble with fear has to do is stand in the breach or run in front of the approaching army and fear you off the field. At Hein you fall into the water stuck till you SoE, at aden if your on the side and don’t get hung you fall usually to your death, with a 4% loss out of siege zone.
Where are we headed?
Interlude: Adds some small nice stuff, but there is really no mechanic changes. It’s really is an almost empty shell. Some classes get skill additions, but really for the most part it only makes the strong stronger and the weak weaker. Some tanks now have a blaster and more Pdef! healers and dwarf’s got what? And the true tanks still don’t have more HP than damage dealers. (I could list a ton here of how disappointed most folks are. Better to leave it short kind of like the patch…….=o)
What needs fixing?
1) Servers need merging! If they stay Light for Population 3 months in a row. People play to socialize, that is the major draw to MMOG’s.
If NC is worried about Clan Hall issues simple plan. Clans get 1bil for a b-grade halls and 2bil for A grade Halls on both merged servers. They then can chose to bid on a clan hall on the new servers or keep the adena. Other wise let everyone keep everything they have. Castles can be seiged again! Call it what you want story wise, but do it!!!
2) Address issues facing players that make them feel compelled to bot/drag. That is the sign of a good game and company.
I’m glad I had a hard curve to get to level 77, but a good game realizes in order to get new players it must also adapt. With the current state of the game, I will never become a
noble, if I’m on the street talking to my friend who has never played L2 what am I to say?
Been playing this game for 2 years, its cool and all, but I know you will not play it for 2 years to get to be where I’m at now.
(I’m going back to the m59/UO days: Want to eliminate adena sellers / farmers and level the playing field, at least 90% of the time, with out selling adena as a company? Provide players a Bot/Drag that is company sponsored so they can farm themselves, but players realize that someone could kill them still. If you make it you set the limits most US players don’t have 4 or 5 Computers to play on. )
3) Exp: Group experience of parties 7 or more needs to have a larger modifier. Like 3x current.
3) Every Class should be inspected and looked at: (I’d love to see some players answers to these)
Can they solo if so what? 1-80 Does it work at higher levels? PvE what’s their job? Do their skills reflect that? PvP what’s their job? Do their skills reflect that? What are they lacking if anything? Do the players play the character how we the developers see the character being played? What differences?
4) Castles are still worthless unless you hold a major. Instead of Clan Skills tied to RP points It would be nice if some were tied to castles. Especially the level 7-8 ones only farmers will ever see. 5700RP to level 6 =/
5) Hero’s are cool but need work so that they alone don’t unbalance the game to the point of unplayability. Hero Weapons yes! Unique Passive abilities sure! Active skills that can keep 100 people from beating 9 NO!
I said in my vent I was writing this and was asked why bother. I know I’ll never be a noble or hero so why do I still play? PvP and Castle Seiges in c1 and c2 and the dream of those one day again. The feelings of clanship, between the circle of friends in our clan. The excitement of accomplishments that are meaningless except to me inside, because in the real world I manage chaos and tread water.
For those that read all this I apologize, but I hope you feel as passionate as I do about this game I love to play. I did this free hand so dont kill me on spelling and gramer. :D
This is a good post, very well written I might add. It touches up upon the problems of the game without overly bashing ncsoft for what they've done to the game. Personally, I haven't played the game for I think around six months or so and only renewed my account to give away some gear to friends who continued to play.
I was a fortune seeker and finally I got feed up and realized that the dwarves in general will never get fixed, that they will never be able to make money, pve nor pvp. So after having made lvl 78 on her and all legit I might add I decided it was time to move on. The game in general was dying anyway and most people don't like to admit that. Its like having a terminal illness yet denying you have it, but all the signs of it are there.
Botting to put it simply, destroyed the community or played a important role. But from a paradoxical perspective I can understand why people did it and continue to do it and sometimes I wish I did. The games grind is so obnoxiously ******ed that the only way to actually progress without donating all your time to it, is by botting. And this is one of the signs of broken mechanics, when individuals NEED to bot to progress rather than do it themselves. And its sad that the developers made the grind that hard to invoke people to actually cheat. And despite most of the stereotypes of how cheaters are rude, egotistical etc. Most of them I knew where good guys and only did it so they could actually compete in the game, because without it they would still be very very low level.
The same goes making money, the games economy is so broken due to placing it exploitable raid bosses and two broken money making classes that it forced people to buy adena to even come close to affording stuff. As a dwarf I acknowledge that I could make slightly more money than most but ONLY if I was allowed to keep my spoils. Other than that, it was the same or worse if I decided to solo because as everyone knows dwarves can not effectively.
Another thing that put the nails in the coffin is the lack of updates for the game or any real balancing fixes. With the updates the pattern always consists of fixing one thing and breaking three things in relation to it. So in the end nothing ever gets solved. Many classes were left undone, Dwarves, Elven Elder, Summoners and thats only to name a few. While skills and boosts for skills could of been added in between the times we wait for a new chronicle, it never did. Nor were any effective skills were added in a chronicle.
The range vs melee thing has constantly been a problem ever since the beginning. It was never solved, but could of been with a simple pvp damage cap for certain skills. But instead they continued to add things that made those classes even stronger than before. I don't want to drag this on for so long, because my time is limited. But to sum it up, if I may. When people bot to progress because naturally its nearly impossible, when you can't find a group nor see anyone in starter lands, when there are couple of class types that simply dominate over the rest, when you have to be in a group to actually play or NEED a certain class to even begin to play. Then there is something wrong with the game and if not fixed it will die. Just like what is happening to L2.
I came to this dilema lately. A largely bot clan of real people wanted to war my clan and im like whats the point he even said we kill them it wont effect them they will jus turn their walker on at night and bot the xp back. One of them got banned for botting on their 78 HE next day he bought a 78 TH....
Ive been playing since prelude and personally it makes me sick, people have CoV/PoF/PoW bought buffers buy full sgrade and here i am since prelude play the market and grind and i cant even hold a candle to them.
Games is turning into counterstrike and the main problem is internet cafes in some countries. NCSoft really needs to address this. See in these countries to play for 100 hours in a month it would be cheaper just to buy a toon that has that level . To play the market you need to set up shop overnight but for them its just cheaper to buy the adena then pay for the time they would have to have shop set up.
Does anyone at ncsoft think about how the gameplay itself and how people pay to play this game are what the main causes of the bot/farmer problem?
I do completly agree with you. Since I started playing this game in CB, I also remember and miss what it was like in the C1 time seiges. They were the best especially when most were ffa and lately its been mostly zergs vs 1 alliance or so. This game is getting boring/dying to put it simply and as much as I dont want to, I will probably end up quitting after the current war on bartz. I wish the game could be like it was back in C1/C2 but if it continues to be like it is....I dunno. NC needs to figure something out or merge a couple servers, I think that would bring some life back to things.
Ive seen a few good castle sieges recently on Hinde but they still are small scale. At max maybe 80 people if they are lucky show up for one side. Back in the old days in C1 C2 ect there were hundreds for both sides. I remember in C1 I went to a gludio siege and got owned because the guards were too high ^.^. Everyone got owned at that siege by guards, but there were hundreds that showed up to have some fun.
As for te voice of the US players, doesn't happen, the most we'll every be able to control are the events. But I think it has somthing to do with Korea giving NCNA the files, and I don't think NCsoft NA is allowed to mess around with it too much.
As for the grind.. Don't ask why, I don't know if all asians are like this but deffinatly the Koreans, LOVE, the grind >< And after all this game is from Korea so stop complaining.
Server Merges, Need to happen but never will.
It would help populations of most servers such as Erica, Devianne, Hindemith, Lionna. The rest of the servers are doing fine, But this would create alot of.. conflicts. Such as Castle owners, Clan Hall Owners, Double Clan/Character Names and such. I suppose they can take the Character information such as lvls/items/werehouses along with them but the owners of Castles and Clan Halls would have to be reset, and they will have to bid/seige all over which im sure most wont be happy about.
From my point of veiw, there are many players who are not Subclassed or Nobless, but are making thier way along slowly but surely, but alot needs to change and fast.
EDIT: Do somthing about Baium becuase Uprising on bartz is hoggin him :<
REDIT: Lineage 2 has got to be the most unstable, buggyest, game I have ever played (no offence, it still looks beautiful) It was made using the old unreal engin and thats the mainstay of the problem. A game should not have any "Critical Errors" period.
As for te voice of the US players, doesn't happen, the most we'll every be able to control are the events. But I think it has somthing to do with Korea giving NCNA the files, and I don't think NCsoft NA is allowed to mess around with it too much.
As for the grind.. Don't ask why, I don't know if all asians are like this but deffinatly the Koreans, LOVE, the grind >< And after all this game is from Korea so stop complaining.
Server Merges, Need to happen but never will.
It would help populations of most servers such as Erica, Devianne, Hindemith, Lionna. The rest of the servers are doing fine, But this would create alot of.. conflicts. Such as Castle owners, Clan Hall Owners, Double Clan/Character Names and such. I suppose they can take the Character information such as lvls/items/werehouses along with them but the owners of Castles and Clan Halls would have to be reset, and they will have to bid/seige all over which im sure most wont be happy about.
From my point of veiw, there are many players who are not Subclassed or Nobless, but are making thier way along slowly but surely, but alot needs to change and fast.
EDIT: Do somthing about Baium becuase Uprising on bartz is hoggin him :<
As for the server mergers never happening; i beleive they will sooner or later. Compensate for clan halls ect. I only forsee one problem with a server merge, and that is it would affect the current servers economy heavily in a good way or maybe a bad way.
I'm not convinced that there needs to be server merges. Though for a game that is 3+ years old, having many "light" servers is a bit disturbing. I take this as a sign that NC is trying to eliminate the bot problem. But then again the idea that the servers are mostly made up of the "mindless" is a bit more disconcerting. My hope is that they will bring in new players.
As far as state of the game? Well.. that's the "I don't know part". Where are we? I feel that it is one of the most beautiful games out there, great animations, etc. But I feel that there is a bit of stagnation.
I haven't been excited about an update in a long time. C2 to be exact. C3 found me burned so I took a few months off. C4 was ok I suppose and C5 made me feel that "yes, classes need balancing so it is necessary before they can bring in the big guns".
Interlude is supposed to be the big guns? I'm not really interested in Interlude.
I love the community though. All of you on these forums as well as on my server are great and make the game worth signing into.
But I feel that the design team (not the artists) have lost their way or are burned out or something.
It would help populations of most servers such as Erica, Devianne, Hindemith, Lionna.
I would not put Lionna in your list though.. But Sieghardt instead. I play on both.. and Lionna is just fine with population currently, and much higher than Sieg is currently in active player population. Sieg has lost a lot since last June even.
Healthy population of a server is prone to debate as well. Since if you count the bots on some servers (like Kain where I reported 22 of them on an alt yesterday).. then you end up with a skewed account of what the actual active non botting population is. And the latter is what you need to determine before making any kind of server merger. If you as a server are not willing to police your own bots, why would I want you merging with my server that does? Thats just two examples of why I disagree with any server merging.
What this game needs..
1. Better customer service (The recent issues in tech forum are a perfect example of this problem).
2. Active banning of botters (it has been happening lately thank goodness, just need to keep it up).
3. Better xp for groups (xp/sp/adena/drop bonus for groups increasing as the size of group grows larger. So at 3 you get x1.5, 4 x1.8 5 x2, 6 x2.3, 7 x2.7, 8+ x3). This would encourage more grouping.. as any class could then add to a group to some extent just by enlarging it even if they were not the "perfect fit" for that groups dynamics.
And more grouping would then in turn create more player interaction.. which would then help create more demand to play the game (from newcommers, etc.. ). Eg.. help the community grow rather than stagnate.
Ive been playing since prelude and personally it makes me sick, people have CoV/PoF/PoW bought buffers buy full sgrade and here i am since prelude play the market and grind and i cant even hold a candle to them.
Looking back at my gaming experience in this magical realm of Aden, I do have to agree with a few things, but only to a very slight extent. Here's one of the things I agree with: The economy is screwed. Ok, so the farmers really messed it up and it's been insane lately and has really been fluctuating as of late.
For example, Gustin saw it's A grade SS prices skyrocket from roughly 90a per shot to in excess of 160a per shot, an increase of almost 200%. The funny thing is, where A grade Helms were once 100mill or more, they are beginning to drop almost 50% from what they once were. Basic materials are dropping. Adena is drying up so people can't go and spend like there is no tomorrow. The mass bannings that have ocurred lately have been music to my ears because for one thing, I can walk freely around Giran and secondly the mat prices are much more reasonable, instead of inflated by sometimes 10x what they should be.
I also agree that the populations have been dropping it seems, but again on Gustin the server has just begun yet another power shift that is making the server very very interesting. For so long various alliance have tried to claim being a "third side" and have worked toward that end. It's now beginning to show up in various facets. My alliance is currently at war with two alliances who are at war with each other. Needless to say, watching your back is always on the forefront of everyone's gameplay. I do not think a server shift would be necessary. Let's say that at sometime in the next year or so, we get an update that radically changes the game, there becomes more advertising for L2, and people flock to the game. Ok, so the new people flood the old servers first, then to any others that may exist. At this point people will complain that the server is too laggy or unstable and post another complaint to NCSoft and we're back to square one. So why not keep the same configuration and ramp up the marketing campaign to where we add people to the game.
As far as classes being "less effective" in some situations, I also agree a little bit, but I also watched a Hero die today by two people who were not 75 yet. Pretty nice, eh? A Gladiator and a Necromancer against a Hero. Some classes aren't built to go head-to-head with all classes. Archers are overpowered to an extent, and some classes get a boost that need them in Interlude. My Gladiator will be a lot better off in Interlude and will be able to do well in PvP as well as PvE.
I think the problem we have is that we're not the Koreans who have a completely different idea of what they want in an RPG. They are able to muster forces to achieve common goals where in NA we have too much infighting, hatred, and general insanity to complete anything worthwhile, such as raid Antharas and Valakas.
If you want to change the way this game works, start with yourself. If you choose to bot it up, you're going to face the consequences. Some have seen this and it's made the populations drop. Once people realize this game isn't taken over by bots anymore they might start returning and we then have an increased population to supplement the blood thirst that many of us have seemed to develop.
The problem with the game isn't the mechanics, it's the people who manipulate or downright cheat to break the rules and become "The best."
As for the grind.. Don't ask why, I don't know if all asians are like this but deffinatly the Koreans, LOVE, the grind >< And after all this game is from Korea so stop complaining.
i agree game is dyeing slowly. I quitted my self 6 month ago , came back to find out nothing has really changed except for the fact that some clan broke up, reformed etc. I dont know, the way i see it is did they needed to make the map so freaking large ? I think thats killed the fun. People are so spread out now all over the god **** map ... that there is hardly fun pvp anymore. The spies at entrance of rooms kills it either. You get no more suprise pvp. Now there is just arranged pvp and arranged ganking parties.
C1-c2 was fun because most of the people were leveling at the same spot, cruma. It was fun back there reading the drama in shout and see the fights. And yeah Siege were lotta more fun though. Well yeah, game is dyeing thats obvious. People come back for new chronicles out of curiosity just to quit again not long after. And the freaking grind is not meant for people that have only few hours to play everyday. The exp is ridiculous. I know Ncsoft had planned to get this game to last for like 5-6 years, with this ridiculous grind, take so long to exp and level... but it bores people out of their mind, its so much repetitive. I tried coming back but lol...i lost all interest.
A post well put together and thought out. One point I would make here it is not the Farmer that causes the problem, but the players that buy from them that do so. It is supply and demand. No market means no money thus no reason for them to be about. I have been here since CB, I left for a year and returned about 5 months ago and was floored at the prices. It did not take long to see why.
Very good post... I would love to see this go straight to the top in management of the development team.. They are really failing to realize that we are VERY different than they think....
I think that sometime near the end of Lineage2's time as an MMO, they will realize that the service they were offering had SUCH HUGE potential, but their lack of customer service ruined it all..
Electronic Arts did this with another absolutely AWESOME mmorpg, and thousands of people still talk about it after it's been gone for almost 3 years.. If NCsoft makes this same mistake, I will never play another of their games, just as I did with EA...
Hat off to the calm tone, but I just can't agree with everything of what's written there.
I still say that the chief problems of the game are with the players (botting, ebaying) and a large slew of secondary problems (handling of cheaters [much recent improvement], communication with the playerbase [remains problematic], early promotion) happened with NCSoft.
In all honesty, though, I think no matter how well NCSoft might have handled the game, L2 was just not a game that could appeal thoroughly to the people it was supposed to appeal to - too many contradictory aspects.
A great deal of the problems that face this game stem from it's community. We all know people can be animals, and it's a fact the conditions in Lineage2 are literally intended to bring that out! Is it any wonder than, that without the rigid control of a leash the players have tore this game to shreds?
In my opinion, if NC soft had devoted enough money to deal with this from the outset, Lineage2 would be a completely different game! I think they underestimated their playerbase's ability to bot, ****, Ebay, grief, scam and exploit their game until even people who don't play MMOs heard about the nasty reputation and steered clear of it!
When I play this game I'm always impressed by it's art and music, and I can't help but wonder if there really is a way to realize the potential that's there. Like many people here who have thought about this, I feel that the population is the key. Besides server mergers and advertising, what can be done to attract players to the game?
I have read many great suggestions here, but inevitably they have some tiny flaw that people demonize in the course of the discusion (if it isn't derailed outright), rather than explore the idea. In a sense, they are to blame too!
The only way to realise the potential that's there is to shrink its playerbase to maybe just barely enough to fill one server - if all those that don't actually enjoy the game go, you pretty much have to start at cleaning out most of the current population.
As I said - Lineage 2 narrowed its niche in so far that only a tiny amount of people could enjoy it thoroughly, but part of that narrow niche was in an otherwisely empty niche (the open PvP) and drew up a crowd that really despised the game at its basics.
Thus the constant attempt to claim that the game is primarily PvP oriented, despite the EXP curve at the end.
Hmm there seems to be disconnect somewhere between what the players believe and what NCSOFT is reporting. They just said last month they reached 100,000 active users, which is the HIGHEST amount of active players NA has ever had. Of course thats spread out in with the original servers + 2 more new ones...coupled that with the extra capacity of the server upgrades we got in c3? c4? and the fact that the land mass gets geting bigger 2x or 3x the original that was in prelude, no wonder there is an illusion that there are less people around?
But are there really less people around? NCSOFT needs to confirm this and i guess with the next quaterly results we can see for ourselves if indeed NC NA is growing or decreasing.
As for "dying" about that already. This game is FAAR from "dying". People who use this term so loosely really can get a clue about what a "death" of an MMORPG is. When Lineage 2 becomes like Shadowbane or SWG then we'll talk "dying".
As for the "light" status on the servers, I think NCSOFT is doing a hell of a great job. Ban those botters thats what we have been crying for and thats EXACTLY what we want. Make a clean slate and do some advertising and we can get the ball rolling again.
No need for server merges. Doing server merges = defeat. We don't need that in Lineage 2. If WoW can keep growing why can't Lineage 2? Lineage 2 is a faaaar SUPERIOR game than WoW will ever be. Its about time though that NCSOFT NA did some **** marketting.
Apart from visually, Lineage II is certainly not 'superior' - it's very different. And it has the problem of being built with a very rare kind of player in mind and attracting a more common, but completely incompatible, player.
Right, Lineage II is superior to WoW. Thats why wow has 300+ servers in NA alone while Lineage II has 10 for NA and Europe. Numbers show what the better game is, even though this is not a debate what game is better. Like there could actually be one anyway.
Man ? You are here playing Lineage 2 and your saying WoW is better? What is the problem with you people? Hell you like WoW, GO PLAY WOW?! How simple is that?
Obviously you don't like it and thats why your here? Otherwise why the **** are you here? seriously? I don't get it?
Blizzard is a name brand. Warcraft is a name brand, waaaay before NCSOFT ever came into being. Warcraft is an INTERNATIONAL name brand. Get it? It had the marketting behind it already from its RTS heyday.
Hell most people play WoW BECAUSE of the RTS Warcraft they remember and enjoyed. Its not about WoW being the better game. Why don't you go to MMORPG.COM and see how many people there love WoW?
LOL most of the people that play WoW are MMORPG first timers. Not hardcore, not veterans. Theres a huge difference there. Read it. Learn it. Embrace it.
The mechanics of Lineage 2 fosters, well at least in NA's personality, the worse traits of any human. Greed is the most definitive factor of the game. Players are steered into this, but by no means do the players not have a choice. Of the many MMOs out there, Lineage 2 allows the most freedom. There IS nothing to Lineage 2 but the environment and what the players make of it. Classes are unbalanced and the difficulty of the game "seems" to force players to use uncondoned methods of leveling. But Lineage 2 offers freedom, and so players HAVE a choice. Ultimately it is not what balances or imbalances in class types that will decide the fate of Lineage 2, but the players themselves, and ultimately the greed that is prevalent in all aspects of the game.
I love this game, and have yet to realize many of it's other aspects that make the game even more enjoyable. I will admit that a great deal of this comes from my own playstyle and stubborness. Lineage 2 was my first MMO, and I have loved it since day one. I have tried to make my points about this matter ingame many times, and I am almost always ridiculed for it. NC soft is not nearly as much to blame as the players themselves.
Others have posted how they want to promote the game, I myself have done so as well. But what is there to promote? "hey buddy, by lvl 5 you will have met 20 times more bots than players, and when you do meet a player, he will most likely PK you and call you a noob and tell you that you suck. No worries, he was being nice!"
It's very true that L2, in NA, is a Very Niche market. But that really is no excuse to act like you're on a playground and you're 6yo again.
Good and sensible post, and hopefully it will open the eyes of some that don't realize what's just over the horizon.
This is the last I'll post in response to you, in the interest of the on a whole rather civil tone of this thread.
I'm not saying WoW is better - I'm saying Lineage II isn't better, either. I'm saying they're both far too different to complain. They try to reach out to difference audiences and accomplish completely different things.
Please, calm yourself and read what people write before you respond.
I don't think I'd enjoy WoW, if only because it is well past the point where 'ugly' would still be a fair description for it. I won't try it, I won't play it. Its grind concepts don't appeal to me.
However, saying Lineage II is flat out better is ignorant - the only area where this can be said is probably looks, and even there, people would argue that, character aside, WoW could be considered good looking (I don't think so).
some good posts here and only a select few are not agreeing. There are several points that i would like to bring up again that i feel are 100% correct. (im not quoting people, im just gonna put a summery of their comment)
"People bot because the grind is too hard for the casual player"
yeah, this is true, the fact people get fed up with hitting the same kind of mobs for hours and hours and hours upon hours upon hours gets [censored] annoying. Ok, so everyone can tollerate it to a certain extent, but when it gets to a point where you are getting 0.01% for every mob you feel like you arn't making progress. When people feel like they arn't making progress they get bored and look for a way to gain the progress they desire without the bordem....... hence why people turn to botting. If people felt like they were making progress they would enjoy the grind, lets face it, the game is advertised as a PvP game, and thats what alot of people play the game for, not to kill mobs for an hour to find they have only gained 1%.
"ebayers"
there are ALLWAYS gonna be ebayers, in every game in the history and future of MMO's there are gonna be ebayers. It's againts the game rules but it's not enforced in any way. When was the last time u heard of someone getting banned for ebaying?
I was talking to a friend that got Burning Crusade yesterday, within the 1st few hours he had done a quest and got gear better than his own at that time without much time or effort, he was again making PROGRESS and enjoying the game because he was making PROGRESS. I dont know how mnay times i have to repeat myself on that single magical word that surrounds alot of problems with L2.
Now if people felt like they were progressing with gear they would be happier and wouldn't ebay AS MUCH. Think back to grinding from 0-20, getting loads of random drops like boots, gloves shields ect, it was fun, you felt like you were progressing by replacing the 12 pdeff boots with 14 pdeff boots, i mean, wow 2 more pdeff!!!! it wasn't much, but it was still a good feeling to get something as a drop and feeling like you was getting more powerful. When was the last time you got a decent drop like that? and if it was recent, what was the time frame between that one and the previous one?
This could also be linked to botting since items drop so rarely that you dont wanna spend hours and hours looking for a drop that has a 1/32,000 chance of dropping, so people set up bots to do it for them.
Im just ranting on now and i have work to do but the key word here is "PROGRESS!". If you dont feel like you are making progress then people get bored and stop playing and look to other ways and means (botting/ebaying) of gaining what they are looking for.
This is a very constructive and useful thread. It's been some time I hadn't see any of it's kind.
My opinion is that server population is really scarce. I beleive that "real human players" are no more than 70% of the actual active player base (maybe much less). The major problem of this game is not that it is hard to level or acquire items (mats, adena, equipment). The problem lies within the fact that there is a way to bypass all that hardship by the use of automated programs. If NC soft implemented a way to completely block the use of automating programs (used either by farmers or real players) then the game would have a chance. And I don't mean banning. I mean no ability to use such programs (don't even know if this is possible, but anyhow). Otherwise, I am affraid nothing will ever change in this game. No server transfers or balancing classes or increased banning will make any difference.
Ask yourselves. Would you abanon your current character (and adena, equipment) to make one in a new server if you knew that after a while it would be like your old server? Probably no. But what if someone guaranteed to you that no automated playing would be possible? Would you consider then a fresh start? Some would say yes, some would say no. But new players would start much easier on such a basis, and the game could actually grow on people.
Take a side. People that are undecided are the worst of the lot. Your here so wether you don't believe this or that, you have made a choice consciously to play Lineage 2. Therefore in some respect you feel that in YOUR opinion, Lineage 2 is "better" to you than WoW is to you. Otherwise you wouldn't be playing it? Don't analyze that too much, it may overwhelm you with how simple the realization is.
As for what is there to promote about Lineage 2? I have played my share of MMORPGs. Lineage 2 has problems. Oh they are big and the biggest one is largely concerning bots.
But take WoW for example. If Lineage 2 has that many bots, how many "bots" does a game like WoW have exactly? Last I saw WoW admins were banning a hell of a lot more people from it than Lineage 2 was, which means there is a hell of a lot more bots in WoW, just better hidden. Yes? Makes sense.
Lineage 2 may have its flaws but is hugely marekettable. The beautiful world of Lineage 2 has hardly ever been shown off to the outside world. There has not been 1 TV advert of Lineage 2 EVER that I can recall, while WoW's advert is everywhere including in popular cult shows like the "office", which actually kind of demeans and stereotype office works as being those types of "geeks" that would enjoy WoW. Why is that exactly? I don't know.
Lineage 2 can do better marketting. Lineage 2 is THE best PvP game out on the market right now. It is THE best looking MMORPG out on the market graphically. It has THE best character models in any game represented to date. IT has one of THE most numerous classes of any MMORPGs out there and the skillsets for those different classes. There is a HUGE amount of marketting potentional for Lineage 2. But sadly it has never been marketting properly to this day.
Look how bad the PRIMA Guide effort was? If that is any clue how can you doubt the bad exposure Lineage 2 has gotten to date from NCSOFT NA?
But isn't that the point? Lineage 2 is a hard core MMORPG. It is for VETERANS of the MMORPG world. This is everything we love about Lineage 2, because of THIS elevated status.
Otherwise, I'm sure that the devs in Korea can make it as kiddyish as WoW and easy to level and complete.
What exactly does WoW have that is actually better?
Better Quests? Yes! What else? Nothing else.
Why would you trade endless hours of farming Item content on raid bosses 1000x to equip everyone in your guild, over and over again? Hell I don't want that sh*t. I've done that with EQ, thats not what I want from Lineage 2.
So what exactly is it from Lineage 2 do you want?
I think the developers should STOP focussing so much on the PvP aspect of the game and focus on the PvE aspect of the game.
PvP is already done well. PvE is piss poor to the bottom of the pond scum yuck.
They need to refocus their efforts now to make PvE EMMERSIVE and AWESOME. Give that AWE feeling and breate LIFE back into the world of ADEN.
The major problem of this game is not that it is hard to level or acquire items (mats, adena, equipment).
no offence but it is really easy to level at 5X, say that again when you get to 70+ or 75+ :P
No offence taken. But please read my post again. I don't say (or at least I don't mean) it is easy to level. I say (and mean)that "leveling is hard, but this is not the problem". According to my opoinion of course.
i would say no server marge till bots are on servers, till the classes and skills are not ballanced
and i would say YES to xp boost for full partys, that would stop people play alone with 2+ accounts boxing
really interesting posts
i totally agree with u guys about the bot problem and the xp boost for partys would be an awsome idea but lets not forget that although i also like guildwars i wouldnt like to se ln2 turning in to it... and i think we all know that the rason why ppl play this game for a long time is cause we need a long time to actually do smthing.. but still it woulndt be a bad idea to make it a lil bit easyer to get ur lvl...
I would love better PvE (but still this is a hardcore game it shouldnt be easy) to make it better as stated before produce more drops of weapons and the like, it will make it so much more fun. Make the drops in different qualities as I remember in Diablo2 both in the term that you could either repair it or that the item was destroyed after it took to much damage and that the same item could have different pdef or patk...
For the gameplay in a large I think the biggest problem is the low population and there is a few things that could help out.
For god sake make it more profitable to be in larger groups.
Server merges good idea but flawed. Better to make a new server and let people choose if they which to move there or not.
With all the compensation for clanhalls and name changes that has been suggested.
Please advertise more! Heck almost no one news what L2 is.
Please make more endgames for different lvls, rechange almost all the <lvl 50 raidbosses status or introduce more low end bosses to make it easier to raid them. This will make it fun to play in all lvls without feeling the urge that "I have to rush to A grade to have fun or to make a difference".
Bots bots bots bots... We all hate them but they are still here please introduce more GMs!!!!
Destroy GG which has made that I havent been able to play L2 in 5 days now....
I play on Lionna, so obviously it'll reflect things there.
Lionna's population seems to be just fine, its still normal to run into people, especially with in catacombs and at higher level hunting grounds. People still get in brawls over hunting spots, so that seems healthy to me.
Raid bosses are dead. Well, mostly dead. The reward does not match the risk, and the life crystal system is absolutely worthless. Life crystal costs need to drop by a factor of at least 10 before the system will ever be used. I have never, ever been to a raid where the players couldn't have accomplished more simply by hunting on their own during the time the raid takes. The exception of course being quest and rep bosses. RB's need to be reexamined.
Charm scrolls for sieges were a great idea. Sieges are much more rapid and back and forth. On the other hand, however, the rep system has made sieges very boring for the less powerful clans. The weaker clans band together to defend their few castles against the clans with all the heroes, and so there's rarely a siege there. Losing 2k rep points hurts a lot, and because of that, many have stopped sieging (and because castles are really not all that great to have).
C5 brought a lot of new skills, my EE I thought was being turned into something useful. But I was wrong. Maybe Interlude will fix it, but my EE has been retired because of the instant kills on him by archers and daggers. Healers have no place at sieges now. Between that and raids being unproductive generally, there's little reason to play a bishop or EE now.
Botting remains L2's primary problem. If you go to the forums where MMORPG's in general are discussed, this game is synonymous with botting and ebaying. Botting has a heavier impact here than anywhere else. It takes a long time to get high level toons and gear, and you need to have it almost, because at this point your enemy is garunteed to have that sort of toon. This is not as big a problem in WoW, with its extensive no-drop items and faster levelling curve. So part of it is the game design. But a large part is that its so rampant, you almost can't afford not to. There are people out there that have bought dozens of level 75+ toons and billions and billions of adena. And they aren't banned. And it breaks the economy, it breaks the concept of competition because this is a PvP game, you can't not fight them. They'll pk you on their level 80 toon, then work off the pk's using a sin eater on their level 40 subclass. It costs them almost nothing.
L2 is not going to change though. They recently reduced personnel costs to get higher profit. What the game is, is what it will be. L2 could have been something great, but now its only waiting for a game like it to take its place (Conan or Warhammer?) with a team that's willing to be more aggressive against bots and ebayers.
P.S. this doesn't mention the current problem that the game doesn't run on my system due to horrendous gameguard bugs. This game has been out, what, almost 3 years, and NCSoft still allows game-breaking bugs to be released onto live servers. Very bad.
I would love better PvE (but still this is a hardcore game it shouldnt be easy)
"Better PvE" doesn't equate "easier PvE", of course.
Imagine a PvE environment where there are no normal mobs - just lots of varied raid bosses and other raid targets (like a 100+ mob "village" where every mob that has a line of sight to you aggroes you - and tells all his "friends" nearby where you are, too).
This thread was originally locked by the moderation team because of the bot discussion and some unconstructive comments. If the accusations, "this game is dying!", and hostile comments against NCsoft can be kept out of the thread, then the discussion can continue for now. I agree that this is an interesting and mostly constructive conversation, so I'd like to see it stay open. Thanks!
Very nice post, quite constructive and for the most part, I totally agree.
I'm not going to go into a huge post about my thoughts on the game, I'm only going to say one thing.
If it was at all possible I would suggest that instead of a server merge, NC created a new server, moved the population of say two existing servers onto it and closed the now empty servers. Only reason why I say this is that if you merge 2 it is very unfair with regards to clan halls and castles.
If say you merge X and Y. Technically Y already owns the castles and Clan Halls because they are based on that server, why should X be the ones to lose theirs? Similarly if X moves to Y and Y are forced to give up their castles and clan halls, why should they if it was originally their server.
Therefore a completely new server with nothing owned gives a more balanced aspect to both populations with no-one feeling they were the ones forced to miss out.
This is an interesting post and I am very pleased to see that Mistryl has kept it open.
L2 has been built from the ground up to be a long term, slow evolution for the players. The hardcore, slow grind is one of the appeals. Periodically I will stop playing L2 and play a game like Gothic or Oblivion for a while. Generally, I lose interest. Those two games in particular are beautifully rendered with very interesting quests, dialogue, and gameplay. Nevertheless, I lose interest because they are so EASY. Conversely, L2 is not easy. There are always areas to hunt that are very challenging and, of course, there is PvP.
Unfortunately, because the game is structured around the idea that it takes time (years) to reach noblesse or hero status, it is anathema to the instant gratification needs of many of the players. Many players want enchanted skills, they want glowing weapons, they want boss jewelry and they want it N.O.W. not a year from now, not a month from now, but N.O.W. and they are driven to illicit activities to get it.
Ironically, I have always wondered why, when NCSoft built the game to be a multi-year experience, they chose not to implement more rigorous client-side security to prevent the players-without-a-pulse syndrome with client-side authentication [either hardware or software tokens as an example]. Sure it would cost more money for the gamer but many, myself included, would gladly pay for a hardware or software token to level the playing field [and as a nice bonus GameGuard would no longer be needed and account hacking would be impossible].
I like the hardcore features of L2. I like the long grind and hard to get items. I think it has the best PvP system going, just the game needs more PvP in it.
I hate the bots, I hate the increased map size and I hate the feeling that NCSoft ignores us and doesn't offer some of the features to us that other games do. ie. server transfers, account transfers and better GM support ingame.
Server population of active people is dying out and NCSoft seems to be turning a blind eye towards this in my opinion. I would like to see steps taken to stop the already growing snowball.
I like the hardcore features of L2. I like the long grind and hard to get items. I think it has the best PvP system going, just the game needs more PvP in it.
I hate the bots, I hate the increased map size and I hate the feeling that NCSoft ignores us and doesn't offer some of the features to us that other games do. ie. server transfers, account transfers and better GM support ingame.
Server population of active people is dying out and NCSoft seems to be turning a blind eye towards this in my opinion. I would like to see steps taken to stop the already growing snowball.
I disagree entirely on several of the OP's points, although there are several that I do agree with.
I've played the game since OB, in 3 months it will be 3 yrs. Over that time, I've watched the game evolve from an unfinished, extremely rough game into a fairly polished and somewhat well rounded MMO that easily competes with every other MMO currently on the market.
I agree that L2 is a niche game. It is not for the masses here in the NA market. Without a doubt, there is some difference in cultures between the NA and KR markets. That cutural difference means that the game is played differently by the players.
This is one area that has been a major complaint of mine as long as I've been playing. Because the players play differently, the GM staff needs to GM differently. I appreciate the recent major crackdown on cheating, but I believe that should have occured from the beginning. If it had, L2 would not have the reputation that it does. It's going to be a difficult road to change that bad reputation into a good one. This translates directly into the number of new players, and more subtley it translates into the number of players that continue to keep playing.
Many of the complaints that are most common are a matter of taste. Is the grind too hard, is it too hard to make money, is the game to hard in general? That's all a matter of taste. IMO the niche that L2 fills is that of a difficult game to play that requires teamwork, dedication, and long term goals. From day one, L2 has been a game that is supposed to take years to cap out, in fact, less than 1% of players ever cap out at all. So to say these things are a problem is really just the perspective of an individual. Certainly, they could dumb the game down in order to make it more mainstream and to attract more players. In fact, with each passing chronicle, they have in fact made the game easier and easier with regards to leveling up and attaining gear.
L2 by design is a game where it is pretty easy to get into the average levels and average gear of the server. To get beyond that though, if you want to be in the 10% club or 1% club, it requires exponentially more dedication and teamwork.
IMO one of the major differences in culture between the NA market and KR market is that level of dedication and teamwork. Over the years, the understanding that I have gained of the KR culture is that teamwork and self sacrifice are very natural, almost to the point of simply being assumed. That is not the case in the NA market. Here, selfishness and self centeredness are far more prominent. This is one of the things that leads to such a heavy level of cheating. In addition to that, it appears that the rules are quite different in KR, where purchasing adena online is just a part of the game. As opposed to the NA market, where it is not defacto, and where it is in fact considered cheating.
The fact that NCSoft in general attempted to treat and deal with each market the same has hurt them badly, and hurt the game badly. Hindsight being what it is, they should have given each market a bit more autonomy, and made an effort to build some customization into the game to allow it to be slightly tailored to the individual market. For instance, on my server, Gustin, Antharas has not been slain in nearly 6 months, Valakas has never been seriously attempted, and Frintezza has only been attempted once that I know of. This is not what you would expect to see in an MMO as mature as L2. I would expect to see several raids per month on these high end epic bosses. Supposedly in Interlude there will be some changes to facilitate this sort of thing.
Enough with the bad, please allow me to discuss some of the things that sets L2 apart from the rest of the MMO world.
For starters, there is the graphics. For a game that is 3 years old, it is unheard of for the graphics to be on par with games that are approaching launch. L2 is still ahead of many games that are in beta even now. There are a few flaws here and there, but for the most part, there is no MMO that is even close to the graphics L2 brings to the table, and TBH I haven't seen any screenies even from the games set to launch in 2007 that match up to what we have. Graphics are a bit of a thing of taste, addmittedly my tastes run towards the more realistic, and I also like boobs, so I am a bit jaded. :)
Next, the chronicle system. When I first heard that NCSoft planned to launch a major update every 6 months, I thought they were out of their **** minds. This is unheard of, although towards the end, I think EQ was getting close to that timeline. Then I heard it was going to be free. Free? At that point, I thought it was just a big rumor, probably a lie. As it turns out, this is one of the smartest things I've ever seen a company do with any game. Each update tweaks the game, sometimes they are big changes, sometimes small, sometimes it's alot of content, other times it is bigtime changes to the game mechanics. I've always said that these changes are the #1 thing that keep me playing the game. Boredom is a game killer, and NCSoft does an absolutely amazing job of keeping it fresh. The other side of the coin is that some people hate the changes with each update, but for the most part, the updates keep more people playing and bring more people back than the ever cause to leave.
The next huge thing that L2 has over other games is it's economy. This is also one of the major complaints from many people. I feel this is mostly due to the fact that L2's economy is so vastly different than most other games. The economy in L2 essentially forces every single player to get involved in it. You will not be able to get new gear if you do not get involved in the buying and selling. This is genuis on the Dev's part. Many MMO's I have played a small percentage of the players are suppliers to the economy and the rest are consumers. This is simply not the way it is in L2. As a result many players are shocked when they first experience L2's economy. Once the initial shock wears off, they find out that the gear is not so impossible to achieve, but you have to do your part in greasing the gears. This has become even more evident recently with the crackdown on cheating. It's quite a beautiful thing really. It's kind of funny that when new players ask for advice on the game, one of the first things the veterans tell them is to get involved in the economy early, the earlier the better!
The next big thing L2 has going for it is the PvP. The open PvP system, combined with the hands off approach of the GM staff, makes for a great atmosphere in the world of Aden. Every single player knows, and most learn early on that when you step out of town, you have a target on your back, and your reticule can just as easily be on the next guys back. Someone mouths off to you, step up and kill the guy or die trying. At the same time, griefing is somewhat limited by the systems in place. There certainly is some, especially at the lower levels, and I'm sure that it has driven more than one player from the game. Honestly though, I have heard more stories of people being griefed and having it drive them to succeed than I have heard of people being griefed and quitting. The PvP could still use some work in L2, and they tweak it a bit with each update. IMO PvP is far too level, gear, and buff based, and not enough player skill based. That's another matter of taste though, in as much as the PvP could be more individual skill based, there is still a tremendous amount of strategy involved in PvP. Like I said, this is a game about teamwork, and building a strong team.
L2 is a great game, but not one for the weak hearted, or those who lack dedication or the ability to play as a member of a team.
He has alot of very good ideas, most SHOULD be implemented...to get MORE players into L2.
The world keeps growing, but the player base - i dont belive - is shinking, but it certainly isnt growing fast enough, he gives alot of player friendly points... [removed]
By simply increasing the EXP rate by 2x and drop rate by 2x they would make MILLIONS of $$$$ and the population would skyrocket from 100k -> 200k players+++
Removed inappropriate comment; please see my post in this thread about constructive posting. - M
By simply increasing the EXP rate by 2x and drop rate by 2x they would make MILLIONS of $$$$ and the population would skyrocket from 100k -> 200k players+++
No. Been discussed to death. Marketing is the key, not WoWifying (yes, that's a word) the game further.
I'd love to be able to just start running in a direction and not cross any "zone boundary" for another hour. And than populate all this place with player-created content, like settlements or castles you can design and build yourself.
L2 is a great game, but not one for the weak hearted, or those who lack dedication or the ability to play as a member of a team.
is exactly what the OP describes as the fatal flaw of the game.
i concede to both arguments; the game is very hard, to my taste almost too hard, and thats exactly what makes me the low level discontented player that i am; had it been easier to get to end game perhaps not in drastically easier terms but as a general concept then i might be able to enjoy the game on my own time. low levels are always ganked and 2shot then laughed at, and ridiculed. equal level is a place i want to be but cannot get to. just cannot. and as the OP pointed out i COULD cheat to get there, but it would be of little profit to do so.
i have built low level strong teams (comparatively) to the point that raiding has gone from easy in c3, still easy C4, Hard at the beginning of C5 but become easy again now in the latter part of the chronicle. my team has evolved not by level but by player skill and knowledge of the game; we are hard to beat and match but that still doesnt put us into end game where "all the fun is".
it has hurt me considerably that because i do other things besides play l2, like have a job and a committed life, i cannot go where i would like to in the game.
everyone in my old clans throughout the years has gone up into end game, surpassed me and forgotten me. i am not surprised, but i am still dissappointed.
I have no problems with the exp personally ^^ I find my own ways ;D But for the general populace.......
There have been major advances to help lower level toons EXP quickly. I think making it even easier is a slap in the face to the legit high level toons out there. I will be there one day. If they boost rates, I'm done.
You know as well as I do that marketing costs big money.
And we all know how much companies love to spend money.
Whereas some small coding changes (priv servers do it) would increase the population and revenue of NCsoft drastically, millions.
I have no problems with the exp personally ^^ I find my own ways ;D But for the general populace.......
My thought is that it's a 3 year old game and that companies have already figured out how much they want to market based on whatever factors they use (box sales, subscriptions, etc) and then as the game continues do less marketing because they are already looking at the next thing in their line up.
Look at the Original Lineage. How much marketing does anyone see on that game?
I do play WoW obviously ^^ It has all the things L2 doesnt.
I think what I mean is, its not that I want my friends to play, personally I couldnt care less.
The point is that the "player base" on all the servers would fill up, if minor changes were made. Its already been proven striaght up on private servers, so the question im asking is...
Why would ncsoft not alter their exp/drop rates, to 2x even, to make millions of dollars, and keep the game.... alive,
When only 3 of the 10 servers are active... (bartz/teon/franz) something is seriously wrong. And ive played Kain/Teon/Franz/Sieghardt, so trust me I know what im BEEN on both sides, I know what im talking about when it comes to player population :P
The point is that the "player base" on all the servers would fill up, if minor changes were made.
It might fill up (not entirely convinced) with people that want the game to be WoW and to be 80 in a month. That's not the kind of population that will sustain this game. They'll get bored quickly and leave. No thanks.
Its already been proven striaght up on private servers, so the question im asking is...
Here we go again with the private server nonsense. They also give OE'd weapons to their friends. Have 2,500x rates. Is that what would get your friends here?
Man ? You are here playing Lineage 2 and your saying WoW is better? What is the problem with you people? Hell you like WoW, GO PLAY WOW?! How simple is that?
Obviously you don't like it and thats why your here? Otherwise why the **** are you here? seriously? I don't get it?
Blizzard is a name brand. Warcraft is a name brand, waaaay before NCSOFT ever came into being. Warcraft is an INTERNATIONAL name brand. Get it? It had the marketting behind it already from its RTS heyday.
Hell most people play WoW BECAUSE of the RTS Warcraft they remember and enjoyed. Its not about WoW being the better game. Why don't you go to MMORPG.COM and see how many people there love WoW?
LOL most of the people that play WoW are MMORPG first timers. Not hardcore, not veterans. Theres a huge difference there. Read it. Learn it. Embrace it.
A few posts back someone mentioned how Lineage II brings out the animal in a person, that is to say the negation of all reason and logic only to be moved by instinct. This is evident in your post and how you are unable to make a reply without lashing out to the person you responding to. It's ok that you treasure L2, I respect that. But in reality your feelings towards the game can't hide the fact that it's severely flawed and dying, if not half dead already.
It's more about the marketing, I can name quite a few failures that despite the brand name or company name failed in the eyes of the public. Take a look at ps3, its made by Sony and the last two playstations have been very successful. But ps3 isn't doing to well due to bad design. Despite how you mention of how Ncsoft isn't a bigger name as Blizzard so that it effects the sale of L2, I can easily mention how NC markets Guild Wars and the sales and number of players are on par with the ones of WoW. So this simply suggests that Guild Wars and WoW have the number of players they do simply because the game is actually good, not because of the developer.
There will always be negative and positive criticism for everything, that is life. There would be something wrong if anything didn't have negative feed back. Why? Because negative feed back invokes the developers(if they care) to make the game better. Only positive feed back would leave no room for any actual growth or expansion. WoW has negative feedback, Guild Wars does, Lineage does, every game does so I fail to see your point with mentioning that.
You said Lineage II is for the hardcore? But what is hardcore? If not your own subjective view of the definition. Anyone can be hardcore at anything. It's just another way to put in other terms a dedication to a ideal, therefore anyone can have a ideal to reach towards in any game thus becoming hardcore. To say that WoW isn't aimed towards veterans would be pretty ignorant, a lot of players who come from games like EQ, D2 and many others have come to WoW. The reason why WoW has so many first time players is simply because its possible that they can play, become effective and eventually join with the friends that invited them. In Lineage this can't happen unless the person bots.
If Lineage II really attracted these hardcore players you speak of then we would have more than ten servers and a handful of non botted players that play. But this is not the case. The game is dying because of the numerous problems mentioned through out this thread. And while I'll agree that Lineage II has great graphics, everything else is severely lacking. And to even say that L2 is the best pvp game would in my eyes make you a laughing stock. In terms of gameplay, balance, innovation Guild Wars wins the best pvp game followed by WoW. And only because WoW is a mmorpg and item based and it still has some sort of balance. The range vs melee problem is there as well but no where near as bad as the one in L2. I don't consider Bsoe and force log after running for three hours across the map to find someone pvp. This is all for now.
Melee is pretty awful vs ranged classes on L2. That should be fixed imo.
As for the current state of the game, it is a cult like grip that keeps ppl playing here. The mind numbing effect of dull grind for exp/sp/adena really isnt not as bad as most make it sound, infact it can be a great thing for someone who doesnt like to roleplay or read a novel (quest) each time they have to go hunt some mobs, its more lifelike aspect to simply go out of town and kill whatever and whoever you want (open ended pvp) which makes L2 still one of the better pvp mmo's out there. As of recently, there are some things that detract from the open pvp part of the game... take death penatly scrolls, bsoes, brezs for example... just plain ******ed in an open pvp game. Lineage 2 however makes up for the degrading pvp by offering a political type of pvp.. castle seiging, clan warfare, raidboss and territorial fights keep ppl choosing sides and fighting each other regardless if their class is "nerfed for pvp blablabla".
If you are a new player to lineage 2 you might be about 2 years behind, but if you have played for a while you enjoy the premium and high end upgrades this game has seen over the last few years and can appreciate any new content balances and etc that get patched into L2. This is where most of the current playerbaseis atm, imo.
When only 3 of the 10 servers are active... (bartz/teon/franz) something is seriously wrong.
Why do you feel that having servers where people aren't being lagged out constantly is a bad thing? I have characters on Hindemith and Lionna and going to Giran nearly chokes my computer; I'd hate to try doing that on the three servers you mention.
Melee is pretty awful vs ranged classes on L2. That should be fixed imo.
Throughout the history of the real world melee has been awful vs. ranged [archer] so long as the archer could maintain distance. Strategy is required to beat archers; typically flanking attacks with multiple war parties and this applies equally to L2. Interestingly, heavy armor (in L2 this would be Temple Knights, Paladins, Dark Avengers, and Shillien Knights) were effective to some degree but I think that cavalry was the main response to the threat of archers. It would certainly be very nice to have striders in L2 play a role in the balance with archers (perhaps a high speed charge attack that temporarily stuns the enemy).
If you want to beat an archer group you need to use some strategy. In L2 there are limited options admittedly but there are options. Like I said in another thread on this subject, the best place to vent your frustration on archers and nukers is in the dungeons (if you can find them there) since there are so many aggro mobs and lots of small and tight spaces to limit kiting.
Ranged classes should be weak vs targets that are within a close range. L2 does nothing to this effect, and you have range classes that absolutely dominate any pvp scene, even dungeons unfortuneatly as stunshot or aura flare or 2-3k nukes/shots still > melee classes.
It wouldnt be too difficult to theorycraft the range moves so they are balanced pvpwise and pve wise... just limit their power against targets withing a close range. I might make a new topic about this to prevent this thread from getting derailed...
As for the servers merging and etc... that is easily fixable once char tranfers or acct tranfers become available... (are they available yet ?)
I'd love to be able to just start running in a direction and not cross any "zone boundary" for another hour. And than populate all this place with player-created content, like settlements or castles you can design and build yourself.
Well, there's hope for L3. Or Vanguard.
I love the map size. Can't be big enough as far as I'm concerned. And I try to re-explore all of it with each update to see what changes have been made.
For me the game's development seems to have stagnated. It's not that I really dislike anyting in the game (well, I don't like the economy but that's not enough to dissuade me from playing) but I've been waiting for something "great" since C3 (actually, since C2 as I wasn't impressed with C3 as I felt it was just a completion of the game).
The only thing in INterlude that seems interesting is the new enhancement system. But is that really enough for an expansion? Sure, we have the dinosaur lands but that just seems the wrong way to go.
I don't want a Tyranasaurus Rex in my fantasy game.
Melee is pretty awful vs ranged classes on L2. That should be fixed imo.
Throughout the history of the real world melee has been awful vs. ranged [archer] so long as the archer could maintain distance. Strategy is required to beat archers; typically flanking attacks with multiple war parties and this applies equally to L2. Interestingly, heavy armor (in L2 this would be Temple Knights, Paladins, Dark Avengers, and Shillien Knights) were effective to some degree but I think that cavalry was the main response to the threat of archers. It would certainly be very nice to have striders in L2 play a role in the balance with archers (perhaps a high speed charge attack that temporarily stuns the enemy).
If you want to beat an archer group you need to use some strategy. In L2 there are limited options admittedly but there are options. Like I said in another thread on this subject, the best place to vent your frustration on archers and nukers is in the dungeons (if you can find them there) since there are so many aggro mobs and lots of small and tight spaces to limit kiting.
Nonsense, heavy armor was the answer to archery. IRL there is no kiting, if an archer turns to run, he is a dead archer. They were basically artillery pieces. the unit was placed on the battlefield and was not mobile.
Gunpowder was the answer to archery, not heavy armour. Long bow arrows still pierced the heaviest armour soldiers actually wore into battle minus the armour cladded knights that had to be hoisted by block and tackle to get on the horse. Once fallen were severely screwed with mobility.
L2 is a great game, but not one for the weak hearted, or those who lack dedication or the ability to play as a member of a team.
is exactly what the OP describes as the fatal flaw of the game.
i concede to both arguments; the game is very hard, to my taste almost too hard, and thats exactly what makes me the low level discontented player that i am; had it been easier to get to end game perhaps not in drastically easier terms but as a general concept then i might be able to enjoy the game on my own time. low levels are always ganked and 2shot then laughed at, and ridiculed. equal level is a place i want to be but cannot get to. just cannot. and as the OP pointed out i COULD cheat to get there, but it would be of little profit to do so.
i have built low level strong teams (comparatively) to the point that raiding has gone from easy in c3, still easy C4, Hard at the beginning of C5 but become easy again now in the latter part of the chronicle. my team has evolved not by level but by player skill and knowledge of the game; we are hard to beat and match but that still doesnt put us into end game where "all the fun is".
it has hurt me considerably that because i do other things besides play l2, like have a job and a committed life, i cannot go where i would like to in the game.
everyone in my old clans throughout the years has gone up into end game, surpassed me and forgotten me. i am not surprised, but i am still dissappointed.
The fact that L2 is harcore definitely makes it a niche game, as opposed to WoW, which is a mainstream game. It's a cutural difference, because in Korea, the roles are somewhat reversed. In fact, Asian games in general are more L2ish.
Part of what you describe is a side effect of the cheating. ie - many of the ******* (not all) got there by cheating. Had the cheating issue been addressed 3 yrs ago when it appeared, that would not be as much of a problem as it is now. At this point due to NCSoft's utter failure in the early stages, the damage has been done. Would making it easier to get to endgame correct the problem? I don't think so, because people would still find some way to gain that heavy advantage.
The other part of what you describe is a relativity question. When you design a game, do you design it so that it is expected for the average player to cap out in 6 months, 1 yr, 2yr?? You have to know that the hardcore player is going to do it at least 3 times faster than the average player.
What you do is design the game to be fun throughout in the hopes that every player can enjoy it.
Speaking for myself, my team has done as yours has. We've evolved, gotten better as players, and gained some levels. We are not nearly as high level as the extreme harcore clan on the server, but over time we have learned to deal with their advantage in different ways. It has not been easy, but that difficulty is one of the things my team finds enjoyable.
I don't think there really is an answer for the problem you describe with your dissatisfaction of not hitting end game when many of your friends have done so over time. If they made the game so that an average player can get to say noblesse, the average player will still be dissatisfied, because they still will not be top dog. A person who plays 3 times as much as you is going to have an edge. Or like in WoW, wil have gotten bored and quit the game.
After all the #1 complaint about WoW is that it's too easy. The #2 complaint is that the end game sucks. (raid 24/7+++)
L2 I would say is the exact opposite. I've never heard anyone say L2 is too easy, nor have I heard anyone say the end game sucks. Probably because there really is hardly anyone who can actually say they're at the end. There's always more in L2.
Part of what you describe is a side effect of the cheating. ie - many of the ******* (not all) got there by cheating. Had the cheating issue been addressed 3 yrs ago when it appeared, that would not be as much of a problem as it is now. At this point due to NCSoft's utter failure in the early stages, the damage has been done.
Nowhere is this more profound as when I read other sites and people are livid when their friends, and known cheaters, finally get banned. They have the perception that it was allowed for so long and now, bam, banhammer. I don't have any sympathy for those that associate with known cheaters and then grouse when they disappear. But, you are absolutely right, the damage has already been done.
Gunpowder was the answer to archery, not heavy armour. Long bow arrows still pierced the heaviest armour soldiers actually wore into battle minus the armour cladded knights that had to be hoisted by block and tackle to get on the horse. Once fallen were severely screwed with mobility.
Naw, longbows bounced off of even average strength armor. I've seen several shows where they tested it scientifically. The steel arrowheads were simply not of high enough quality to punch through even a 2mm plate. There were also plenty of formations that utilize shields to deal with archers.
Archery ranks though were good for stopping light infantry and light cavalry, which made up a large portion of most middle age armies.
Crossbows punch through heavy armor, but their range is severely limited, rate of fire is slow, and you can totally forget about mobility with a heavy crossbow.
Check out some articles, and you'll find out that full plate has a much wider range of mobility than you think it does. Those guys could actually run full speed in it for short distances, and had no problem getting on their feet if they fell down.
The bottom line is that the game is not modeled after real life. If it were, then when the dwarf in heavy armor with an axe hit the archer, mage, or dagger, they would all be dead. I don't recall it ever taking a heavy footmen 93 chops to kill some guy in light armor or robes. LOL
Part of what you describe is a side effect of the cheating. ie - many of the ******* (not all) got there by cheating. Had the cheating issue been addressed 3 yrs ago when it appeared, that would not be as much of a problem as it is now. At this point due to NCSoft's utter failure in the early stages, the damage has been done.
Nowhere is this more profound as when I read other sites and people are livid when their friends, and known cheaters, finally get banned. They have the perception that it was allowed for so long and now, bam, banhammer. I don't have any sympathy for those that associate with known cheaters and then grouse when they disappear. But, you are absolutely right, the damage has already been done.
The saving grace is that I'm seeing a very amusing trend with those cheaters. Since cheating isn't much of an option these days, they do not seem overly entertained with the idea that they actually have to start working for the thing they want. It appears that the cheaters are slowly starting to disappear, and so is the advantage they gained. ;)
If NCSoft can maintain the pressure on cheating for an extended period of time, I believe the game itself will heal.
Next step - get some more players in the game!!
There have been several indications that they will be easing the grind slightly in Interlude. Little things like making Lvl 12 and 13 SA's available. It only takes subtle changes ot make a world of difference.
IMO they should do a second grand opening. Perhaps Interlude 2 will be a large content update, and they can generate enough press to do a second launch.
If you look closely at NCSoft the company, you can see that they had better do something. How many games do they have scheduled to launch in 2007?? They're living off of subscriptions right now, and for the forseeable future, so it is in thier best interest to get those subscription numbers up.
As I recall, they are adding in mobs/quest to be able to level 11's and 12's, and I think 13's. It's got to do with Dino Island.
Bighands you don't know what your talking about, Dino island is ******ed hard and the grind is WAY worse due to the crit dmg nerfs. This is a common complaint on the playforums man. The game didn't get any better, once again it has gotten worse.
Oh please, the game gets easier with every chronicle.
I don't doubt that there is crying in Korea over crit damage nerfs. I'm sure it is punishing the [censored] out of those FOTM archers that seem to be sprining up all over the place.
More than likely there will be 1 or 2 more patches to Interlude before we get it anyhow. Hopefully they leave the crit damage stuff alone.
For the rest of the world who hasn't built perfectly stacked Polearm parties (korea) or Archer parties (NA) the effects will not be nearly so pronounced.
The systemic problem with this game is there is too little to do that doesnt involve grinding. I mean fishing could of been done better but its just a different grind then grinding on mobs.
Thats the problem with l2 at its core is every single thing in the game is a grind there isnt much to do in the game besides grind grind grind 30 seconds of pvp grind 2 hour siege ever other week grind grind grind.
Its too much grind they need alternatives to grind like the festivals but thats be made into something of a non factor since the problems with that are mostly if you arent a nuker party you have no chance in winning.
Quests that are actually intersting might be a start... FOD series of quests where you do different things like find a chest hidden in the forest try not to kill a mob till u get an event item etc, that gives a full back story to whats going on with the FoD is probably the best thought out quest in the god **** game with great rewards (4.5% xp at level 68 when i finished first time and top bgrade jewels) Whoever makes quests in this game should get fired and whoever made the FoD quests put in charge of Quest development cause honestly the rest of the quests in this game blow INCLUDING THE SUBCLASS QUEST, can we please change that already?
The systemic problem with this game is there is too little to do that doesnt involve grinding. I mean fishing could of been done better but its just a different grind then grinding on mobs.
Thats the problem with l2 at its core is every single thing in the game is a grind there isnt much to do in the game besides grind grind grind 30 seconds of pvp grind 2 hour siege ever other week grind grind grind.
Its too much grind they need alternatives to grind like the festivals but thats be made into something of a non factor since the problems with that are mostly if you arent a nuker party you have no chance in winning.
Quests that are actually intersting might be a start... FOD series of quests where you do different things like find a chest hidden in the forest try not to kill a mob till u get an event item etc, that gives a full back story to whats going on with the FoD is probably the best thought out quest in the god **** game with great rewards (4.5% xp at level 68 when i finished first time and top bgrade jewels) Whoever makes quests in this game should get fired and whoever made the FoD quests put in charge of Quest development cause honestly the rest of the quests in this game blow INCLUDING THE SUBCLASS QUEST, can we please change that already?
I have to agree also. One day I wanted to break the grind and decided to go do some questing. I did about 3 and was not amused. Most the time Im not concerned with reaching the end game until I realize there is not much for me to do until then. Im still in the point in the game where im looking for the class I want to play. That cant be blamed on anyone but myself for not being completely happy with the classes I choose. But every time I make a new toon I have to move through the levels as fast as possible because I know until the end its just grind.
A few posts back someone mentioned how Lineage II brings out the animal in a person, that is to say the negation of all reason and logic only to be moved by instinct. This is evident in your post and how you are unable to make a reply without lashing out to the person you responding to. It's ok that you treasure L2, I respect that. But in reality your feelings towards the game can't hide the fact that it's severely flawed and dying, if not half dead already.
The fact that you impose your jaded views on people and claim that the game is "dying" while the company that produces it and is updating it says the total reverse of what you state means that either your are lying or NCSOFT is. Now tell me, who do you think people are going to believe? Sure the game has seen some setbacks but people have been calling for the "death" of L2 since beta and prelude. Your claim is sorely unorginal nor has it any merit whatsoever. Like I said before, how does having 100,000 active users, more than at any point in the history of this game in NA (without advertising) mean that the game is as you call it "dying" exactly? Please, if your going to try and wholesale the game to the gutter, you better come up with some ACTUAL FACTS to back up your statements.
It's more about the marketing, I can name quite a few failures that despite the brand name or company name failed in the eyes of the public. Take a look at ps3, its made by Sony and the last two playstations have been very successful. But ps3 isn't doing to well due to bad design. Despite how you mention of how Ncsoft isn't a bigger name as Blizzard so that it effects the sale of L2, I can easily mention how NC markets Guild Wars and the sales and number of players are on par with the ones of WoW. So this simply suggests that Guild Wars and WoW have the number of players they do simply because the game is actually good, not because of the developer.
Guild Wars is not really an MMO also it is based on the easy model of playability, similar to how WoW currently is. Comparing those games to Lineage 2 is faulty and problematic at best since they target totally different markets as well as gamers with a different mindset.
Also, of course its about marketting? Thats the point isn't it? Lineage 2 has none. 0. Nada. Warcraft is a globally recognized name brand for a reason. It came out YEARS before NCSOFT even was a company and has advertised itself successfully and proven itself during the "Golden Age" of gaming, when games first started to explode, experimenting with multiplayer interfaces or in this case, Blizzard's Battlenet.
If NCSOFT had come out with Lineage or Lineage 2 at the same time as Warcraft RTS, I fully expect NCSOFT and its titles: Lineage and Lineage 2 would be giving Blizzard a hell of a run for its money. Actually, before WoW, they were doing exactly that.
One other thing to take into account. Sometimes history is periodic. It has its ups and downs. Lineage/Lineage 2 WAS the top dog before World Of Warcraft. That doesnt mean that when Lineage 3 comes out, it may take that crown back.
There will always be negative and positive criticism for everything, that is life. There would be something wrong if anything didn't have negative feed back. Why? Because negative feed back invokes the developers(if they care) to make the game better. Only positive feed back would leave no room for any actual growth or expansion. WoW has negative feedback, Guild Wars does, Lineage does, every game does so I fail to see your point with mentioning that.
Declaring that a game is "dying" without adequately backing up your statements is not "negative criticism". Criticism comes about from an informed process where a person usually doing the criticism bases those criticism on hard facts. Where are YOUR hard facts?
You said Lineage II is for the hardcore? But what is hardcore? If not your own subjective view of the definition. Anyone can be hardcore at anything. It's just another way to put in other terms a dedication to a ideal, therefore anyone can have a ideal to reach towards in any game thus becoming hardcore. To say that WoW isn't aimed towards veterans would be pretty ignorant, a lot of players who come from games like EQ, D2 and many others have come to WoW. The reason why WoW has so many first time players is simply because its possible that they can play, become effective and eventually join with the friends that invited them. In Lineage this can't happen unless the person bots.
*Laugh* The term hard-core is subjective? What planet are you on and what game have you been playing? Everyone who has played several MMORPGs know what hard-core in a MMORPG is. That is why some games are labeled casual and some are for veterans of the genre. Most are in agreement that WoW is a casual MMORPG and most are in agreement that Lineage 2 is a hard-core one. This is an opinion that has proliferated and enforced on gaming sites like MMORPG.COM as well as Warcry.com and elsewhere. If you don't agree with the collective, fine. But don't make it sound like *I* am somehow the only that thinks and feels this way...because buddy, I AM in the majority on this one.
Also many people have come to WoW from EQ and D2 because first of all WoW IS AN EQ Clone. Seriously, if you EVER played EQ, there is no doubt whatsoever how much those 2 games resemble each other. The end game is virturally identical. In fact, I'd go as far as saying Blizzard lifted the same game mechanics and put their face over it. Raids for Itemization has been soo overdone before WoW ever made the scene. Diablo 2 is made by Blizzard. Oh, guess who else makes Warcraft? Blizzard. Funny how you use those 2 examples.
If Lineage II really attracted these hardcore players you speak of then we would have more than ten servers and a handful of non botted players that play. But this is not the case. The game is dying because of the numerous problems mentioned through out this thread. And while I'll agree that Lineage II has great graphics, everything else is severely lacking. And to even say that L2 is the best pvp game would in my eyes make you a laughing stock. In terms of gameplay, balance, innovation Guild Wars wins the best pvp game followed by WoW. And only because WoW is a mmorpg and item based and it still has some sort of balance. The range vs melee problem is there as well but no where near as bad as the one in L2. I don't consider Bsoe and force log after running for three hours across the map to find someone pvp. This is all for now.
And I again fail to see why you are here as an "active" player if you feel this way about the game? Why exactly are you here and what is the purpose of your posts? Just to rant because your having a bad day? If your complaint is because you have a problem with the game, then theres a simple button that says "deactivate". Go press it now and be over and done with yes?
Peace
I'm not saying the game is perfect by any means. I think that the game needs to change for sure. But it needs to STOP focussing so much on PvP. Its tiring and have been done to death. The devs need to put their effort into the mythos of the world, making the world more alive and dynamic than static. They need to refocus on the lore and they need to revive PvE because it seems that is the biggest complaint about the game so far, outside of BOTS. That the grind is insane. Why is the grind insane? Because people are bored in the game. Why is it boring in the game? Because people have lost the special feel of Lineage 2, the wonder of world they play in. REFOCUS ON PVE. We need it badly!
1) soloability. you are asolutely right, each class should have a way to solo through the low levels at a sub-par speed. i think however, that in order to accomplish anything in endgame, teamwork should be a requirement. some classes as you pointed out cannot solo very well, but it is certainly possible. i think the problem is that in endgame the best way to level is to level alone with 2-3 accounts. the point being that NC should try to restrict players that play with themselves, while encouraging player-to-player interactions of all types.
2) server merges. im my opinion, not currently neccessary. real player population is high enough at least on devianne, for a large number of large clans to be competing for castles, raids, and xp. that is not to say that server merges are a bad thing.
3) accomplishments. the grind is what it is. it should be fun for players of any level to appreciate the game, and to a certain extent im talking about PvE. when NC comes out with new areas that are harder to xp in, like swamp of screams, which is actually pretty fun PvE with a group, it is clear that people avoid these areas becasue of a lower rate of xp gained there. the solution i think is to make mob AI different in different areas of the world. in a couple places in the world, mobs attack mobs, which is pretty cool. just in general they could change things up a bit, such that when you go to a new area you are not certain what the mobs will do. another thing that NC could implement is mob reactions to player actions. since mobs can now use heals and ss, theres a lot that could be done in this area to make PvE more exciting.
4) heroes are overpowered, and deamon weapons are more overpowered. bsoes are stupid and uneccessary, since you dont drop items in PvE anymore. people seem to have more fun fighting with not-so-uber weapons against other players that have not-so-uber weapons. new weapon ehancements in interlude is a step in the wrong direction, as are the several types of invulnerability that they are adding.
my 2 adena game analysis of L2. free updates absoutely rock, NC is an awesome company for going out on a limb and doing this, and whomsoever had the foresight to think this could work was absolutely brilliant. you dont need an awesome computer with 3 gigs of ram to play, and thats a huge bonus. you do however need a good internet connection, and i agree with slycutter that internet cafes are a crack in that design. when the game came out its clear they didnt do much about botting, and as people said, the damage has been done. however there is not much we can do about that but comment on it and move on. they are doing a decent job now at banning automation of characters, however no one will proabably ever be banned for non-legit trades because (speculation here) NCKorea has a different prespective on this than NCNA/EU. the RPS has made PvP balance since C3 a lot worse than it was, whether because it was poorly designed from the get-go or because the devs didnt actually consult the RPS when they were handing out skills, remains to be determined. its a PvP game yes, but thats not all there should be, or else NC is stepping too close to the niche markets of first-person-shooters, where they cant compete because no person that plays those games is going to want to play for two years so they can finnaly play the way they want to play. im going to agree with maline that the players are to blame, not the developers, for cheating. the devs did not intentionally make a game that forced anyone to seek out ways to cheat. they built the players a sandbox, and some people paid them 15$ a month to pee in their pool. however, im pretty sure that most legit players would not have an issue giving NC more money per month if it meant less cheaters, as biotox pointed out. Larq also had a good idea, abot increasing xp gains in large parties. this would hurt 9-man-bot parties and make gank squads a bit more dangerous. ty to mistryl for keeping the thread open.
the best point that was brought up, in my opion, was from bighands:
The fact that NCSoft in general attempted to treat and deal with each market the same has hurt them badly, and hurt the game badly. Hindsight being what it is, they should have given each market a bit more autonomy, and made an effort to build some customization into the game to allow it to be slightly tailored to the individual market. For instance, on my server, Gustin, Antharas has not been slain in nearly 6 months, Valakas has never been seriously attempted, and Frintezza has only been attempted once that I know of. This is not what you would expect to see in an MMO as mature as L2.
yes, servers are different, and maybe GMs can do more than just ban players and deal with player complaints. it would be nice if game dynamics (such as raid boss hp, effects of new skills, event times, etc) were able to be edited by server, to test out how the game works best for the players that play on it. im sure this would lead to a lot of people stepping on each others toes, but this is what is really needed, because when we "test" gameplay on the PTS, there is too much content and too many balance issues for any one player to get a grasp of what has changed in the game. use servers as testing grounds for new ideas, but keep the same game in general. what i would like to see, as madders more eloquently suggested, is the the merge of two servers into one new server. try it out, if it doesnt work then it doesnt work. try increasing the % chance that melee stun has on PvP, see if anyone notices. just please do NOT WoWify L2 (as elrohir said) becasue if the two games were to go head-to-head in the WoW market, WoW would stomp L2 in NA. people would be top level and bored of playing both games at the end of the month, but WoW has marketing that L2 doesnt, so it would have enough customers to survive. Barney Island is dumb. ty for reading.
1) Marketing, to attract new players.
2) Strict enforcement against botting, so new players don't abandon ship when they see starter towns full of bots.
3) Faster exp gain before level 70, so new players can contribute to politics/pvp without grinding for 2 years
4) PVP Balance: continued improvement of underpowered classes - reduce impact of gear/buffs and increase emphasis on player skill, teamwork and organization
5) PVE Balance: boosted returns for larger parties to reward the effort required to put them together, and increased ability to solo/duo by support classes (especially tanks, healers and buffers)
But most of all, promote the game aggressively! I feel like I know every active player of the game (because there aren't that many of us!) and that it's increasingly difficult to find high level players to replace those lost to attritition.
3) Faster exp gain before level 70, so new players can contribute to politics/pvp without grinding for 2 years.
The quest, specially the ones from lvl 1-lvl 55 need to be reworked.
I was recently in Pavle ruins doing that quest because I found out that you can get a nice reword (6 steel, 20 leather, 9 CBP).
But the problem is the area: the mobs are really spaced out, they use HP pots, they are kind of tough, give moderatly high XP, are mind numingly boring to solo/duo on, and takes 200 quest items to complete the quest. by the time you get that quest finshed once you've gained a lvl, because the quest items drop at a very infrequent percentage.
I mean, I'm kind of getting sick of cata's all the time, but it's litteraly the best place for XP. the herbs are infrequent, and don't even boost you, they just over ride what you cerrently have. If we had the herbs back in C1 it mite of made a difference but this late in the game is not even worth having.
They don't really need to boost XP from 1-60, thats fine. it's after 61 when it starts to slow down. thats when XP needs to pick up.
NCsoft just needs to go back and rework all of these old prelude/C1/C2 quest, and give much better rewords.
I don't agree with most of you about the grinding system. Every MMORPG is enique, and L2 is enique in many ways; Graphics, PvP System, and the Grind System imo, brings lots of opportunities for those who want to play the market. I have known people who knew the game and made 61 toons in less then 14 days from 0(ofcourse better is always possible), and had good gears on them.
Lets say 2 months for casual players, and 4 months for carebears. In any way, the more you play, the more rewarding the game gets. There have been many enchancements to the game, like catacombs & necropolices which offer good rewards for grind purposes.
However, economy in game has become so depandent to bots and farmers that banning them altogether would invite an economic crisis into game. Honestly, noone out there can deny prices would rise if all bots were mass banned. Like someone there mentioned, NCS delayed it so much
or maybe its too late now to fix things up. They have been against to botting all the time from the start, but its so obvious that amount of bots per server and sites that sell adena increased dramatically. Contradiction. But since L2 is a good game(it should go for at least 3 years, maybe more), its never too late to fix things up. But surely time has come for NCSoft to think something about it, seriously.
Most critical part on the other hand is that bots not only affect economy but also gameplay and fair play. Thats why and the main reason behind mourns and quits(including mine) are bots.
What really encourages botting might be that whether you bot or not NCSoft has the right to terminate your account immediately in anyway. Just a point.
IMO, NCSoft sould investigate the reasons why people are boting, either eliminate or fix them.
To add depth to your harcore-gaming discussion; After 28 hours TBC was released a guy made to lvl 70. So logically, WoW is 10x of L2, maybe more.
But hard-core gaming is still something different.
I'm going to start this with a question, if everyone could go into their backyard and pickup diamonds, what value would they have? Now if I remember right, one of the solutions NC had for the aforementioned problem ie rl money for ingame assets was reduced drop rates, which in my opinion played into the hands of those ppl selling these assets, by making them more scarce and harder to come by, unless you are ol 24/7. Adenda is in such a huge supply that item costs have been inflated way beyond the reach of most players without clans to support them. The luxury in Giran has help to keep the lower end C grade equipment prices in check, higher grade shops should be established selling low end items. Another thing to consider is to make it not worth their time to exchange rl money for assets, loosen up on the drops make items and mats attainable make the game more player freindly. As far as grinding goes there is so much to do and see in this game to farm in one spot for 2 or 3 levels to get key mats and recs for 1 item deafeats the concept of a large world and diverse mobs, the drop/spoil tables need to better reflect the level of the hunter. As far as the endgame goes as long as there are new chronicles, additions to the geography,level caps increased, skills and new mobs added there may never be a end game, just attainable goals and new content. This is a great game by it's own rights, many pluses and a few downsides. All in all this is a great game imo the best out there with a few tweaks and some aggresive marketing it could give a game like "WOW" a run for it's money as far as market share goes. As an afterthought I'm going to add this bit. I had a freind over the other day (he's a real hardcore wow addict(so bad he is in recovery because of it)) well I showed him the game took him on atoor and explained some of the game mechainics he had a few coments "wow I didn't know anything was out there like this, graphics are awesome wow is so much like a cartoon, I fear this game I would become so addicted" needless to say with more exposure, I think a "smart" company that wants a larger market share would listen to it's cutomer base and convince the people on the other side of the big pond that this game still has allot more potential and what better way to launch C3 than with an allready established player base.
Thanks M for leaving the thread open! I know they are very difficult topics to breach.
I want to hit some thoughts after reading some posts. I will stay away from class banter that is me personally. Someone was talking about game experience ether here or the other board. Why I feel the way I do has been shaped by my past game experience. My first MMOG was M59 as a player and as SrBardGrayHaven and part of 3DO as a college student. My second game in Grad School was UO which I played for 6 years. I’m jaded in I think games only start after year 2 and get better with age if the right changes are made, because all the bugs in basic mechanics are gone.
Both M59 and UO kept the game on shelves for years and years by putting out updates in disk form and refocusing the games based on populations. I remember laughing seeing UO ads in popular magazines 3 years after I started playing it. This game is good enough to do that also!
Population folks worried about the economy if mergers happened the removal of farmers would be a good thing if the populations were boosted by merging. I know this may sound harsh, but I’d like to see heavy populations, and mergers of maybe 3 servers to one. If farmers were gone that would open up cats and necros I have never exped in simply because they are full of bots. This might be the only way to keep economics semi stable. The added players would be able to sustain some economic stability.
Being the top dog on an empty server is empty. Being a working member of a society on a server with lots of groups and PvP is the dream. This game is set-up where large populations are suppose to be fighting for spots, castles, ect, and without that most us might as well go back to UO or EQ and grind their for pve. The click or nich of L2 fits into is more of the server dynamics and more political side. We are all missing that in the US now, the times everyone remembers the best is when the most active play was going on and the servers were at max, where clans were daily fighting for Blazing Swamp or the Gateway. Just because you can exp solo or duo now shows the drop in population. Many folks are not playing but have active accounts just for the glimmer that something will change or they show up for sieges and that’s it.
amazed the thread hasnt been deleted, thanks NC for that.
nevertheless there is no reply to any of the arguments brought in this tread coming from NC staff.
players raise up alot of issues, yet no direct answer to them. the poor customer support that we receive in game (only automated responses) seem to happen here as well.
amazed the thread hasnt been deleted, thanks NC for that.
nevertheless there is no reply to any of the arguments brought in this tread coming from NC staff.
players raise up alot of issues, yet no direct answer to them. the poor customer support that we receive in game (only automated responses) seem to happen here as well.
The poor customer support that we receive in game (only automated responses) seem to happen here as well.
Sorry have to disagree there, we may not have answers to everything we ever say on the board but there are several of the Mods here that answer us on a regular basis and usually with honest open answers rather than a standard corporate response. It's not perfect but they do respond.
I wanted to comment on something you said about merging servers Demon.
My biggest view on the subject is i see merging servers as a step backwards. And we don't want to go backwards but forwards in the development of Lineage.
Maybe it would be more cost effective for NC and better in the interests of the player base to have less servers/more populated versus more servers/less populated. But i still view this as a step backwards by 3 years.
There's not going to be any server mergers anytime in the forseeable future.
It would save NCSoft almost no money, because they already scale the hardware and bandwidth at will. Add a server blade, take a server blade away...
It would however, cost money in order to go through the hassle of merging the databases, sorting out all the naming conflicts, and then all of the players who quit because the lose their castle or clanhall they shelled out 2bil adena for.
If you are the top dog on your server, but don't have anyone to fight with, perhaps you should evaluate your playstyle and see if there is something you can do to rectify that situation.
My own view was that they should open a new server, transfer the population of maybe two other servers onto it and close the two now empty servers. My reason for opening a new one was so that neither population owned anything initially, therefore leading to the natural fight for ownership that is part of this game.
As I've only been playing since March last year I'm interested to know why you would consider it a step backwards. And I'm not flaming Splatter, I'm genuinely interested in your view point because I haven't been here that long and dont know previous mechanics :)
<Not intended as a reply to any earlier posts, rather as my view of the 'current state of the game'>
I think that L2 is a great game, for me the best game ever produced. I think the design of L2 is so subtle that people who compare it to other games mentally are often overlooking its strengths.
Lineage 2 is a world where our characters can grow and live and have adventures. If we play out our characters' lives in this world then the exp becomes incidental, we happen to level up as we live but levelling up is not the goal in itself. Those who allow themselves to fall into the trap of playing to level are often the ones who find frustrations in the game.
Rather than playing to level, play to play. Make goals for yourself. If your goal is to form friendships, do so. Own a castle, make it happen. Get certain gear, be rich, be known as good (or evil), visit every part of the map, raise one of each pets, have one of each set of armor, be a hero....there is an almost endless list of things which the players can choose to do in this game.
So the amazing difference in L2 is that each of us gets to define for ourselves how we will play the game. There are no forced 'sides' or single path lives in L2 like there are in so many other games. If a player is bored in L2, it is the player's fault, not L2's fault. By that I include the player's choice of goals...if a player chooses to focus on level then they have chosen 'the grind' as their game and complaining about the grind is complaining about how they have chosen to play the game.
I have a clanmate whose goal is to do every second class change. Sure, we would not often choose that goal, but if she wants to do it, that is her choice.
Now...how I see the current state of the game. My main is having a great time, slowly levelling through the final decade. His hunting grounds are often so crowded that he has to look for places to hunt. My various alts each have their sub-goals which keep them (and me) happy.
So do I care that the server I play on is 'Light'? First, remember the server upgrades last year mean that the same player load that used to cause a 'normal' or 'full' may now show up as 'light', Second, I am lucky with a great group of ingame friends which allow me plenty of interpersonal interactions whenever I want it. Third, if NCSoft's management is happy with the cash flow from new accounts and monthly fees then we have plenty of people. If the game is profitable for them (and it must be or they would not open new servers) then the player base is fine. Would more be good? Perhaps. Would less be good? Perhaps.
The cost of advertising is immense, especially compared to the incremental profit generated from the sales. NCSoft are good business people, their business would have failed long ago if this were not true. I trust them to make the marketing and sales decisions that they need to.
I hope L2 continues for years and years because I love playing it. Thanks NCSoft, good job.
And I'm not flaming Splatter, I'm genuinely interested in your view point because I haven't been here that long and dont know previous mechanics
I use to goto this restaurant.... And one day they started to reduce the hours they were open. Then a few months later they cut back on the days they were open, now they are closed.
Using WoW as an example. They are adding on expanding...growing.
I can see it from a point of view that.... If we have 8 servers that are always running at a 25% load all the time. Why not reduce costs and cut back servers and have 5 servers running at 60% load. It saves NC some money and resources they could be using in other areas.
I guess....
I would be ok with the thought of a server restructure, as long as it means we are not going backwards but forging ahead.
I hope NC is reading this thread, I wish we had some dialog with them that was 2 way.
Some things that have come up, I’d like to hit tonight with I guess part 3 for me.
1) Someone brought up events, and well I’ll put in 2 cents here. M59 one of the first online games that allowed players to run events. I was one such player I started as a bard with x powers(on a secondary toon provided to me by 3do) where I could run events for a server not my own. I eventually moved up to SrBard where I had several bards under me and I would help guide them and some times even have multiple toon events.
Example: World B’cast “A band of robbers have taken prisoner the daughter of an Aden noble. They are holding her for ransom. However the father of the maiden is willing to pay the sum of the ransom to the players if they will kill the robbers. They are trying to get her to the evil Lord Dartack of Hein.
Yada yada you get the idea
As a Bard: I could summon low grade armor and a fair amount of adena per week.
As a SrBard I could summon medium grade armor and a larger sum of funds. I also could summon up to 10 mobs per day and place them on the field during a fight.
We also had toons that were boosted but static. They were maxed out, but we could only equip them with what we could summon on our bard accounts. And it was more like what happens with the sword that 0 exp was lost when we kill a player. But it was fun for players to race to some where on the map in hope of killing or catching a event. With the off chance of some little bit of gain.
Why cant we have players become event manager. Why not allow some GM powers to be given to secondary toons made by nc soft that can do daily and weekly events. These are event that players would love and not events Farmers are likely to participate in.
2) Several folks have hit some great ideas about mergers, my biggest thought still revolves around the fact that korea has 10X the people per server and people still exp. And their dynamics on their servers is much greater instead of one clan dominating 4 or 5 castles they have individual clans fighting over one castle. That is where c1 c2 was great their were soooo many folks no one clan could ever dominate like they do now. Now it is quiet easy. If your clan/ally has the largest set of hero’s you win.
3) Hero’s: I keep coming back to how unbalancing they are. I watched an archer hero stake out a spot in this weekend’s sieges and kill 20+ 75+ before people quit going that direction. One hero no back up, no healer, OL buffs with pots from what I could tell killing nonstop 20+, the largest group was 7, he one shoted a 76 sps, 3 shoted a DA, ect.
Time to grind thanks for all the great responses kepp it comming,
might be great for a few days, but once someone makes some friends on another server (or boxes, alts the other server) he could play one server, and GM abuse on the other. can you spell havoc? i use two letters; GM.
korea might have 10x the players but they are 10x LESS selfish than us.
i am sure there are no single clan powerzerging every server over there. for that matter i am CERTAIN no KR heros do what NA heroes do and zerg castle siges. we kill people for fun, they kill people only when problems cant be solved with words.
when i rolled on a different server, my old clan organised some RP events (as were an RP clan) that were very story oriented and dependent on the players knowing and acting their roles and classes.
we werent out for loot, nor exp, but to act a story, and have some fun with the gameworld itself. sometimes we had an inter-clan and inter-ally pvp tournament open to all grade ranges with prizes for the winners and rules similar to oly. sometimes we had clan hunts were any level toon came along for a joyride in a high level area.
the best time i had was a light elf vs dark elf roleplay hunt we did where 1 dark elf trying to convert to the light elf side couldnt and was hunted by both sides and each side hunted each other and an enormous lvl 10-30 pvp zerg happened near the waterfall in the neutral zone. that was an awesome hunt. i think we had about 100 players battle it out (rerolled light elf vs dark elf, dwarves not allowed, humans and LE vs orcs and DE) and man it was intense.
events happen in clans no matter who youre part of, its the "give event leaders GM powers" that i myself in particular have a problem with
The bottom line is that the game is not modeled after real life. If it were, then when the dwarf in heavy armor with an axe hit the archer, mage, or dagger, they would all be dead. I don't recall it ever taking a heavy footmen 93 chops to kill some guy in light armor or robes. LOL
Hehe i agree with you :p
My opinion on the game now is visually it beats anyother mmo out there it doesnt look childish, and the armor an weapons looks awsome on all classes and characters. The only thing i would like to see added is maybe a few more solo areas for casual gamers that dont really have much time to party or do anything but grind for a hour at a time. Its not really fair to get picked up in a party and then 30 minutes later say i gotta go expecially if your the main tank or healer. just my opinion to help casual gamers stay with L2 :)
Thanks again to everyone for keeping this thread on track! I prefer to save the questions about design and balance for the next development team Q&A, which I hope to have again soon, so you can ask those questions there. I'll try to address a few other topics here.
Servers need merging!
We are currently not planning on merging the servers.
Does anyone at ncsoft think about how the gameplay itself and how people pay to play this game are what the main causes of the bot/farmer problem?
Yes.
Please advertise more! Heck almost no one news what L2 is.
Marketing and advertising the game are definitely important. "Coverage" tends to increase when a Chronicle is gearing up, and Interlude should have the same effect.
Strict enforcement against botting, so new players don't abandon ship when they see starter towns full of bots.
We agree; this is one of our top priorities and we are working hard to remove bots from the game.
Why cant we have players become event manager. Why not allow some GM powers to be given to secondary toons made by nc soft that can do daily and weekly events.
As jkoster mentioned, players are more than welcome to organize and run events on the servers. We created a new "Community News" section on the front page of the web site, which we use to get the word out on player-run events (and more). We will not provide any GM abilities to players, but I think players can still organize some fun events.
I look forward to reading more responses, and I will try to respond to what I can. :)
Marketing has to be more than just a little bit of $$ spent when there's a new chronicle. NCsoft needs to make sure the product is displayed prominently on retailers' shelves, and has to place the product prominently in gaming magazines, movie trailers and other key spots.
We're more than two years into the game, we need those new players, and we can't wait 2 years for them to hit competitive levels. We need a slingshot effect to get those players up to competitive levels.
The environment has to be clean and attractive. Dealing with bots should be easy. They will go away when the amount of revenue necessary to replace them when they're banned exceeds their expected income. You could do this in two ways: either by 1) increasing the price of new accounts, but include more playtime with the purchase (e.g. from 1 month to 3 months) or 2) keeping the pricing structure the same but requiring *proof of identity* from account creators. This will make it more difficult for botters to avoid having some accounts banned because they are linked to other accounts you've banned.
The play environment at end-game levels needs to be continually balanced, not just every major chronicle. There need to be periodic updates in between, on a more frequent basis.
Quest content should focus more on puzzle and problem solving, and less on **** & slash and courier quests. In particular, quests that focus on repetitive tasks exacerbate the BOT problem. Get rid of non-thinking quests and make quests that require thought, and bots won't do them. Examples might include solving a riddle, word puzzles, or finding a path through a maze that frustrates bot pathfinding AI.
Revise loot tables: Level 80 monsters should not be dropping and spoiling item parts that would only be useful to players many levels lower. Nor should high level mobs be dropping/spoiling raw materials (e.g. animal bones) Those should be dropping and spoiling more complex raw materials (e.g. varnish of purity, mithril alloy).
Events are the icing on the cake if you've gotten the basics right. Those should be run by paid employees because you get what you pay for.
1) increasing the price of new accounts, but include more playtime with the purchase (e.g. from 1 month to 3 months)
I really like this idea - except of course it would have to involve a fully free trial to avoid putting new players off, and that, in turn, would mean newbie villages swarmed in bots. :(
Or some very serious marketing, which might not be such a bad idea. ^^
Marketing has to be more than just a little bit of $$ spent when there's a new chronicle. NCsoft needs to make sure the product is displayed prominently on retailers' shelves, and has to place the product prominently in gaming magazines, movie trailers and other key spots
They should do it when the game be free of bots.
PS: Thanks Mistryl for leaving the thread open and for your Answers.
Or some very serious marketing, which might not be such a bad idea. ^^
I posted this just before Christmas because I really felt NC had the potential to produce a great advert.
Well I'm in the UK and as I left for work this morning there was an ad on TV for an online game - WOW.
It was quite interesting, sort of got my attention but the thing that I thought about most was this - WOW are using what I am guessing are clips from their online videos showing aspects of the game. It is brief and shows a couple of characters and a bit of fighting.
If NC used the same principle using clips from their videos - Frintezza, Antharas, Baium etc along with clips from character action, seiges etc they would totally walk all over WOW.
NC's videos are by far much much more impressive. Being as WOW are doing this (or so it appears) to advertise the fact that they are offering free trials (it's almost Christmas) surely NC should be doing the same thing. I have never to this day seen any advertising for L2 in the UK and wouldn't know anything about it apart from one person happening to play it where my BF works.
It's a shame that this isn't done. I know that TV advertising is expensive, however a lot of the work is already done, it just needs adpating. L2 is a really great game, it's about time NC shouted out the fact.
Sadly there really is very little to no advertising in Europe for L2 :(
I recently found Lineage 2 on a shelf, and I was massively amazed.
But yes, a demo video with mass scenes might be cool. =) Raids, sieges, just plain big PvP. Their gameplay videos (well, didn't much like interlude, but the old ones) were always very good.
They will go away when the amount of revenue necessary to replace them when they're banned exceeds their expected income.
Drying up their source of income (where they sell their ill-gotten gains) will do more to get rid of bots than making wholesale changes in the way accounts are created.
Revise loot tables: Level 80 monsters should not be dropping and spoiling item parts that would only be useful to players many levels lower. Nor should high level mobs be dropping/spoiling raw materials (e.g. animal bones) Those should be dropping and spoiling more complex raw materials (e.g. varnish of purity, mithril alloy).
I think it's done this way because of the range of player levels that can party together.
NCSOFT needs to advertise on TV. They have never done this to date. TV adverts does cost money, but thats the point of advertisement. It costs $$$ to gain $$$. Advertisements are a form of investment for the future.
Lineage 2 really needs to have some advertisement done on the MASS media, not the niche media.
And there is also the potential audience if cinema advertising is used (guess what I do for a living lol)
Yeah that too ^_^
Since L2 has such great graphics, TV woudnt do it justice.
You guys remember the player made fraps/movie "destiny's call" ?
I dont know about you, but if I would see something simlilar made by NC soft at the movies during the previews I would be seriously tempted to try the game out (if I didnt play already). Im sure something like that would drag alot of people in.
Anyways, imo Destiny's Call is pure genious and >> than any of those movies ncsoft makes from an advertisement point of view
The play environment at end-game levels needs to be continually balanced, not just every major chronicle. There need to be periodic updates in between, on a more frequent basis.
Yes!
Quest content should focus more on puzzle and problem solving, and less on **** & slash and courier quests.
YES!!!! This is so important. I actuall don't mind **** and slash but I think that I have done all the courier quests that I can stand. Especially when the quest giver makes me run somewhere because he has "forgetten something, Loaned something, etc.
Revise loot tables: Level 80 monsters should not be dropping and spoiling item parts that would only be useful to players many levels lower. Nor should high level mobs be dropping/spoiling raw materials (e.g. animal bones) Those should be dropping and spoiling more complex raw materials (e.g. varnish of purity, mithril alloy).
NCSOFT Need to sort the bot problem. personally its the biggest issue for me and many of my friends. Go to a newbie town dwarfven/both elven there are a good 40-50 bots there. Great Advertisment for new players....Imo i say when accounts banned for 3rd party programs IP Ban them 2. Maybe also up the death penalty to 100% on guards.
NCSOFT Need to sort the bot problem. personally its the biggest issue for me and many of my friends. Go to a newbie town dwarfven/both elven there are a good 40-50 bots there. Great Advertisment for new players....Imo i say when accounts banned for 3rd party programs IP Ban them 2. Maybe also up the death penalty to 100% on guards.
scuze me, do you realize how wrong that suggestion is?
ban ip means IF YOU ARE LEGIT AND GOT BANNED THEN U CANT COME BACK BUT HAVE TO PHONCALL NC!!!! bad idea.
100% chance of death penalty on guards means LEGIT CANNOT DELEVEL TO FARM! sorry, but my scav likes to be perma lvl 36.
Back to the cinema advertising. . I think it would be a great idea. I've sat wating for the previews and seen Call to Honor (I think that's what it's called) ads and even though it's not my type of game. . it sure was impressive. With Lineage 2 graphics. . I think it would just be so incredible on a movie screen that it would be very compelling :)
I have to say though that since the launch of C5, there has been a very noticable increase in NCSoft's persecution of botters. For a while there, I hardly saw any at all.
Kudos for that. I do have to say it's about **** time though. Please, keep up the good work on catching and banning the cheaters!
Marketing and advertising the game are definitely important. "Coverage" tends to increase when a Chronicle is gearing up, and Interlude should have the same effect.
1 to 2 out of 1000 is an increase....but not very much. :( Really wish your advertisement department would take Lineage II just a bit more seriously, heck just as seriously as they do Guild Wars for instance.
Sadly there really is very little to no advertising in Europe for L2 :(
And the C5 box was just a C3 box with a cardboard wrapping and a C5 DVD. It didn't have the content of the C5 box in the US either, though at least you got the mask.
And why oh why, out of all the hot dark elf chicks does the European advertisement department have to pick the one that looks like she has herpes and a whole host of STDs.
You know for the next major game box release it would be AWESOME if you NCSOFT, you guys, would bundle it with some form of official documentation like version 2 of Prima Guide *hint*
yea, but asking that NC package a) an outdated guide or b) a guide to playing/questing/adena when they have never ever even replied to "wheres toma" questions in 6 major updates is expecting too much.
First! : Thanks for the replies M and thanks for allowing this thread
Does anyone at ncsoft think about how the gameplay itself and how people pay to play this game are what the main causes of the bot/farmer problem?
Yes.
M maybe you will check in tonight. Can you say more? on this one ?What does NC think? Does NC think diffrently then the players?
Strict enforcement against botting, so new players don't abandon ship when they see starter towns full of bots.
Thumbs up on killing the bot!!!!!
I think players can still organize some fun events.
Here are the problems currently......
1. Player run events currently being held lack the emersion of the game.
tournaments
races
story contests
art contests
ect…..
2. Most players even castle lords are not going to put forth 10m+ to get the attention of players in game. Let alone a piece of gear that folks would fight for. The economy is just not set that way. I personally don’t have a pot to pee in adena wise, most non-farmers are in the same boat. If you want interest you at NC need to be willing to help with the tools.
3. Most players are not going to go kill someone with the hope of X unless it is Guaranteed. And even then if it’s a hero vs bob the 50 100 hour toon someone made to have an event it is not going to stand up to them real long in free gear collected to give away.
4. Only heroes have B’cast ability and on my 2 servers they well don’t help non-clan members do even “looking for mammon”.
5. What are good events?
NC’s ideas of events are farmer wet dreams where people who play 2 or 3 hours have little to no chance unless they work as a clan to get enough so one member can benefit.
When I think events I think of a red dwarf with 10 times the normal HP with a piece of A grade laying on the ground with fake death on Yelling Kill me! Nanana you can’t kill me! Surrounded by 30 agro mobs. First one to kill the red dwarf gets the a grade.
Escort a GM/Bard from point a to point b for 40 greater haste potions per person. With the event manager spanning mobs all along the route.
Yada yada yada……………
The problem is events like this need the support of NC and more powers than a little player on 1 of x numbers of servers can do.
didnt have time to read it all due to my lack of time to play i try to not be a forum trol for to long >.< but thus far i can say that i like the fact that some one has finaly decided to bring up a lot of issues that we all think about and that(again, not haveing read it all)no one has really downed on the fact that we all have legit conerns aboutour game. one last thing is that the game is far from dead, dieing..mabey..but dead...nope...just look at all thepeople that have invested their thaughts into this post and probably the million before that adressed similar issues...so the player base is there, its all up to Nc to realise that they stand to loose alot if changes arent made soon...
2. Most players even castle lords are not going to put forth 10m+ to get the attention of players in game.
A hero on Lionna were doing broadcast riddles a wihle ago - with 1 or 2mil as the price money for the first to get the reply right every time.
The events are fine - you can't get top rewards, but that's once again a matter of player attitude issues, not of the game itself. Events aren't here to compensate for those who don't want to take the time to earn some money ordinarily.
A hero has more tools than the average Joe and more time to make funds. What about average Joe who dont? A.who wants to do them or B.who wants to take part? Ive seen stuff like this on my server only people who banter back and forth are the other hero's.
I have visit Lionna often =o) not many honest hero's sorry to say. Most made those levels and funds the easy way in my opinion. I may be wrong known to be before but I've seen some of those guys back in the day sitting in cats near botted farmers.
2. Most players even castle lords are not going to put forth 10m+ to get the attention of players in game. Let alone a piece of gear that folks would fight for.
I have no idea why that might be the case ...
I put a brigandine helmet, elven mithril gloves (+3) and karmian gloves (+3, too) as a price money for my birthday event for our Academy - and I was in low-C grade at that time. I'll probably do it again this year when I can think of a suitable challenge.
2. Most players even castle lords are not going to put forth 10m+ to get the attention of players in game. Let alone a piece of gear that folks would fight for.
I have no idea why that might be the case ...
I put a brigandine helmet, elven mithril gloves (+3) and karmian gloves (+3, too) as a price money for my birthday event for our Academy - and I was in low-C grade at that time. I'll probably do it again this year when I can think of a suitable challenge.
Most people are more selfish than you and would rather spend the adena on upgrading their own equipment.
Now, my thoughts about the game after playing since CB:
I totally agree that there should be "Community GMs" to organize events. Basically regular players with power to spawn mobs and loot, for instance. Under restrictions, of course. It has been done by other MMOs in the past and could be done with L2. This would keep people interested because they'd have something else to do but grind.
The XP is actually fine until you get 65+, then it really starts slowing down. A lot of people reroll or leave because the grind is simply too tough at high levels. Personally I prefer the lower levels where random PvP is more frequent because people aren't that afraid to flag, items and levels are easier to gain and drops are better.
Like a previous poster said, progress keeps players interested. At high levels the progress can hardly be noticed, which is discouraging. It isn't about trying to make the game as easy as WoW, but about not making it mind numbingly dull to grind through the top levels.
A lot has been done about the leveling curve since the early days of Prelude, and it has only gotten easier to level up. I hope this trend will continue. The problem is now with the top levels which are, IMO, too hard.
L2 was my first MMO, and I've tried a lot of them aftet that. I keep returning to L2 because of the good graphics, the class/skill/clan system and the people. It is a great game as it is, but has its flaws. I can't see how this game is dying, in fact I think the opposite.
We are currently not planning on merging the servers.
Why?
Hmm I thought NCSOFT made it pretty plain why last month or the month before that when they said the reached a new record of 100,000 active players? Why would they go backwards and merge servers when there are MORE people playing then at any point since the game went to retail?
Some peoples' reasoning for requesting mergers is that a majority of the time, quite a few of the servers say "Light". Imo, we are growing slowly, just the cause for all the lights servers is due to the mass bannings.
when you have practicaly SWARMS of bots. HUNDREDS of them in a same catacomb, you cant realy say youre fighting against the bot issue. at least not effectively. im trying myself to fight for a place to hunt there and i already started to enlarge my international cursing vocabulary with "ri ni ma" and "cao ni ma".
another issue on bots is the fact they use town guards to delevel. please tell us it is very hard to develop something that would at least bother them while they do so (example: after a town guard kills you, 5 mins you cannot respawn); instead you are fighting the bots with covert operations that players need to not know about, nor see their effect.
There are very long-running player events that are not made by heroes - seriously, you don't need GM powers to run an event. In all honesty, the only thing they'd be good for would be to keep up people trying to 'mess it up', but that's not neccessary.
As for making money? Yes, a hero is of course richer than the average joe - but if you're talking in categories of a few million for price money, that's much easier to organise than the rest of the organisation neccessary.
please tell us it is very hard to develop something that would at least bother them while they do so (example: after a town guard kills you, 5 mins you cannot respawn);
For what it's worth, some real players use the guards to delevel, so this would impact them as much as it would the bots.
Please advertise more! Heck almost no one news what L2 is.
Marketing and advertising the game are definitely important. "Coverage" tends to increase when a Chronicle is gearing up, and Interlude should have the same effect.
An L2 Super bowl Ad would do the trick. Get the Interlude trailor up and ready. Work on that and get back to me. Get the paperwork set and have the attorneys cross the "T's" and lower case "j's".
\m/
:cool:~
Please advertise more! Heck almost no one news what L2 is.
Marketing and advertising the game are definitely important. "Coverage" tends to increase when a Chronicle is gearing up, and Interlude should have the same effect.
An L2 Super bowl Ad would do the trick. Get the Interlude trailor up and ready. Work on that and get back to me. Get the paperwork set and have the attorneys cross the "T's" and lower case "j's".
\m/
:cool:~
they cant dot the T's and cross the UpperCase J's ?
Please advertise more! Heck almost no one news what L2 is.
Marketing and advertising the game are definitely important. "Coverage" tends to increase when a Chronicle is gearing up, and Interlude should have the same effect.
An L2 Super bowl Ad would do the trick. Get the Interlude trailor up and ready. Work on that and get back to me. Get the paperwork set and have the attorneys cross the "T's" and lower case "j's".
\m/
:cool:~
they cant dot the T's and cross the UpperCase J's ?
That part confused me too. And I think that they're Capital letters, not Uppercase, but I never can remember.
We're more than two years into the game, we need those new players, and we can't wait 2 years for them to hit competitive levels. We need a slingshot effect to get those players up to competitive levels.
i didnt start looking at my xp bar until i hit 75 and realized it was, for the most part, going backwards. the game is a lot of fun at lower levels and you shouldnt expect new players to be 75 overnight just because you want them to compete with you. not every player is logging in for your personal enjoyment, and i should hope that they level at whatever pace they deem appropriate to have fun. everything else you said i agree with.
PS: if there was a poll for "with what medium should NC market L2"? my vote would be for L2 shorts being shown before movies, comic books, and desktop mini figs of the toons. its not often though, that you get to select 3 options on a poll.
and id like to stress that PvP class balance has gotten worse since C3.
We're more than two years into the game, we need those new players, and we can't wait 2 years for them to hit competitive levels. We need a slingshot effect to get those players up to competitive levels.
i didnt start looking at my xp bar until i hit 75 and realized it was, for the most part, going backwards. the game is a lot of fun at lower levels and you shouldnt expect new players to be 75 overnight just because you want them to compete with you. not every player is logging in for your personal enjoyment, and i should hope that they level at whatever pace they deem appropriate to have fun. everything else you said i agree with.
PS: if there was a poll for "with what medium should NC market L2"? my vote would be for L2 shorts being shown before movies, comic books, and desktop mini figs of the toons. its not often though, that you get to select 3 options on a poll.
and id like to stress that PvP class balance has gotten worse since C3.
Well, I agree to the extent that individual players should level at the speed appropriate for them, but in the aggregate, there must be a replenishing supply of new competitive players to offset the number of competitive players lost to attrition from the top clans.
The end-game content of this game is pvp, and if it takes you 2 years to replace a player that leaves the game, you're in a tough spot. Do you disagree?
i dont think pvp/fun/friends only happens at the top levels. i think that is where we disagree. if you are bored at a higher level because you play HE or nerco and have no problem pawnzoring everyone, then reroll a melee and get some real competition.
IMO the gameis doing ok at best...it is very grindheavy and i find that i enjoy the game less and less as time goes on because i cant devote my life to it and continue to gain lvls and keep up with friends and clan members....i have no idea how this situation could be fixed but i am just begingin to get disapointed in the game becasue o this specificaly....
I have been disappointed for a very long time with the grind. I can see why there are no NA players. Most NA will not devote the time needed to grind a character. Just check the competition and see where NA people are doing. I can see NCSofts point in wanting the best of the best. At what price?
Sad that i hear players now talking about the high end of the game. Look how long it took them to get to there. Most adults will laugh at you if you try to explain doing something(anything) for that long without a reward. This grind is insane. NCSoft you dont need to make it like WOW where you can make lvl 70 in month or two but something needs to be done to make it attainable in less time than 2 years.
And please dont tell me you can do it in 6 months. I know you can but the average player dont know the little tricks that can help an individual reach that goal. Having to buy adena to help your toon isnt supposed to be an option either. The adena and item drops should be better for the low players to make money.
For example, time and energy should be comparable to actually wanting to save up the pieces and mats to make the weapon for your grade. You reach your level the drops before and after your level should give you the drops you need to craft your weapon and armor for that grade. As it is NCSoft has it setup for the player usually 20 levels above attacking mobs that drop items 20 levels below. This market is on a PYRAMID type basis.
Soon there wont be any players to sell to because everyone will be out of range of the market they have to sell to.
Checkout the noob towns. Who do you see in them? DE village all you see are dwarfs doing repeatable quests and nobody else.
You think they are there levelling a viable player? I dont think so.
well said rages, i am right there with ya..ive been playing Lineage2 for almost a year and a half and still havent made it outa b grade with one toon..i have two in b, 4 in c and two in d...and its taken me this long to do this...mabey if i ahd devoted a lot of time to one toon id be higher but where is the fun in that,....why work to sub-class when you can just make a new toon and restart from scratch as anentirely different player and character...and thenone still hits the same old walls and set backs along the way..such as the fact that one still gets ng drops in NOS and you cant get brig mats until ur almost if not already into ur 40's....id also like to bring up the state of pvp and pve...i have found my self feeling like a lot of classes are far from balanced and that some are almost useless all togather...for example..my first character was a dwarf, i went WarSmith...when i first started i loved him to death and never even thaught of creating another toon to keep me into it..but as time passed the lack of specalised skills and basicly fun tore me away from him..i only got him to 58 and have basicly stoped useing him unless its to fish or make shot...ocasionaly ill leave it up in a craft shop but due to a tight budget i have to conserve power at my house...this also means that i cant play an on godly amount to further my characters through the game...i know i know...its the same old complaint...but my point is that if every one is complaining about the same thing why hasnt there been anything done about it?
some thing that has only really bothered me recently....the Gm participatin in the day to day happenings of the players....or actualy lack there of...on several seperate ocasions i have had to petition a gm in regards to an incident in game that was valid and was,imo, something that needed to be addressed..well....alli have goten back was some bs stamped and pressed general answer that means little more to me then "i not only dont want to read what you have to say...but your opnions,views,thaughts are all basicly a waste of my valuable time." yea.....i know this seems farfetched but the fact is that as far as i am concerned the in game gm's dont take an acive role in promoteing a posative and happy in game environment....or what ever it is taht there mission statement says they aare supposed to do... :confused:
It is pretty hard to ignore how poorly ncsoft handles the botters and exploiters on lineage 2. A new player doesnt see any "real" players until at least 45-60ish, by then Id probably recommend they play a better designed game for the effort they have already put in.
The key thing that keeps L2 playable is that many people already invested soo much that they refuse to play anything else, and honestly dont care who cheats exploits because its what the keeps the game interesting for a LARGE portion of the ppl still playing, which translates to the ppl that are still playing after soo long.
The current metagame really shines only if u play a fotm like necro/he/sps, anything else is your own personal mistake and you will only get the "reroll" response from the ppl playing. From a roleplay perspective, L2 has potential if you can ignore the exploits and endgame cheaters, but even that can be hard to do (lol heros showing up at dion/innadril seiges.. amrite?)
February marks 3 years playing L2. Here are some of my thoughts on L2:
I like the fact that every player has the ability to shape the game to his or her own desire. I like that fact that what you get out of the game is directly related to what you put into the game. I like the fact that when you leave town you are always looking over your shoulder because it's NEVER safe. I love the graphics and believe they are some of the best of it's kind in the gaming industry.
I would like to see improvements in the open field 1v1 aspect of PvP. Players should be encouraged to engage in PvP without the penalty being as high as it is. Most PvP encounters last only a few seconds. If you die at 70+ it can take hours to regain the exp lost. For those players like myself who have jobs, families and limited gameplay time, this is a huge detractor from engaging in open field PvP.
What I would like to see is a system where if I choose to engage in open field PvP (dual purple system) the penalty for death is reduced similar to a clan war. If I choose not to fight I can escape or take the full penalty with the PKer turning red as it is now. This way a player doesn't have to be in a war with another clan to enjoy open field PvP.
I would also like to see some kind of level limit system in open field PvP. An S-grade player shouldn't be able to PK an A-grade player or below without their active participation. Same for each grade level. Or the system could be designed strictly on levels, lets say 10 or 15 level limit. The weapon, armor, skill sets from grade to grade can be significant and therefore make it a no-contest encounter. This does not preclude lower-level players from fighting back if they choose to do so. It just keeps them from being ganked by players they have no chance with. This also does not preclude groups of players attacking a single player.
Since the higher end content is geared towards party play, the benefits of playing in a party should be increased. You want to do away with buff pets? Make playing in a party similar in exp gain or make it more appealing in other ways. Right now the incentive is not great enough to encourage this type of play.
Overall I would say the game is doing well. Contrary to some statements made here, I believe there is alot of game content. The content may not appeal to all players but it doesn't mean it's not there. And as always, the most important aspect of L2 is the community. It's the people that make the game, not the game that make the people. Rock on!
Having to buy adena to help your toon isn't supposed to be an option either. The adena and item drops should be better for the low players to make money.
I have to agree to to many of your comments.
This one above all that I saw you say. I addressed this in a post in "Game Suggestions", and I got to say the feed back on it wasn't very positive. I was addressing an issue with lack of Money and Gear when you reach lvl 20 and are capable of getting D grade. but you can't afford it because of the market.
As it is NCSoft has it setup for the player usually 20 levels above attacking mobs that drop items 20 levels below.
This is a huge mistake on NCsoft Dev team by far! There is Far too many options for D grade (and they keep adding more), and way too little for C-S. 3 robe sets for C, light is the same, only 2 sets for heavy (FP, composite). B is limited. A is class defend, and most classes take the most broken set up possible. (Nuker/summoner/healers in dc, archers/dagger in Maj, Tanks in NM, BD/glad in tallum heavy)
2 sets of jewelry for A, and no one wants phoenix, not when they can get Maj and have better M df. I understand Epic, but if your going to do this, atlest make the bonus to MP on Phoenix higher then that of Maj. BO is the only set any one uses for B.
I'm mean this is only scratching the surface of the problems that plague L2. No originality!!!
And as always, the most important aspect of L2 is the community. It's the people that make the game, not the game that make the people.
As with many other games, this is both the beauty and the horror of Lineage2.
This is why I haven't left yet. I've been with the same bunch of people since L2 started. I knew them before L2 in fact. I've met a lot of great people since also.
This is why I haven't left yet. I've been with the same bunch of people since L2 started. I knew them before L2 in fact. I've met a lot of great people since also.
It's been a 50/50 thing for me... equal parts beauty, equal parts horror.
This is why I haven't left yet. I've been with the same bunch of people since L2 started. I knew them before L2 in fact. I've met a lot of great people since also.
It's been a 50/50 thing for me... equal parts beauty, equal parts horror.
agreed...but i am able to admit im an adict so i wont be stoping L2 any time soon...but i would love to see some changes soon...
This is why I haven't left yet. I've been with the same bunch of people since L2 started. I knew them before L2 in fact. I've met a lot of great people since also.
It's been a 50/50 thing for me... equal parts beauty, equal parts horror.
agreed...but i am able to admit im an adict so i wont be stoping L2 any time soon...but i would love to see some changes soon...
Yeah, me too.. not leaving but not exactly thrilled about it. :(
I often see L2 as a sort of abusive spouse. It has many many merits, many aspects that made you fall head over heals in love with it.
But it constantly mistreats and abuses you. And despite promises of change, L2 rarely breaks from character. We get excited about updates and fixes, imagining how maybe this is the start of a better L2, but then we realize that the content is more of the same, is abusable, tosses the game into more imbalance, or is such a pain in the rump that no one bothers with it.
I stay for the community, mainly the great friends I have made, and because I do love this game. And because I know it has amazing potential. And I have to admit I stay because I hold a hope that "things will be better next update".
I often see L2 as a sort of abusive spouse. It has many many merits, many aspects that made you fall head over heals in love with it.
But it constantly mistreats and abuses you. And despite promises of change, L2 rarely breaks from character. We get excited about updates and fixes, imagining how maybe this is the start of a better L2, but then we realize that the content is more of the same, is abusable, tosses the game into more imbalance, or is such a pain in the rump that no one bothers with it.
I stay for the community, mainly the great friends I have made, and because I do love this game. And because I know it has amazing potential. And I have to admit I stay because I hold a hope that "things will be better next update".
/signed.
I believe that's the way it feels a large part of L2 community.
I stay for the community, mainly the great friends I have made, and because I do love this game. And because I know it has amazing potential. And I have to admit I stay because I hold a hope that "things will be better next update".
i think the "next update hope" hit's the nail on the head for me personally. I mean jeezz, L2 has great potential, but it's just harnesing that potential that NC seem to fall short.
I just REALLY wanna see the mechanics for fortresses in T1, they have potential all on their own to bring some more fun to the game. There are certail skills that should be tweaked slightly and some classes have some offensive skills added to make them more fun to play.
Just wish some of the general support was better handled.
This is why I haven't left yet. I've been with the same bunch of people since L2 started. I knew them before L2 in fact. I've met a lot of great people since also.
It's been a 50/50 thing for me... equal parts beauty, equal parts horror.
agreed...but i am able to admit im an adict so i wont be stoping L2 any time soon...but i would love to see some changes soon...
Yeah, me too.. not leaving but not exactly thrilled about it. :(
Which is where I'm at... playing other games with better communities overall, better staff support, better balance, better gameplay.... just better games, occasionally returning to L2 for whatever it is that keeps drawing me back to L2. Friends, I guess, though I see them in-game but passing rare these days.
I haven't fully quit L2, and have been playing several other classes, trying to recapture whatever it was that drew me into L2 in the first place... but just not finding it again so far.
I haven't fully quit L2, and have been playing several other classes, trying to recapture whatever it was that drew me into L2 in the first place... but just not finding it again so far.
yea..ive even went as far as to make characters on different servers..still not satisfied...
well me for one has decided that if interlude doesnt make any headway im moving game ive had enough of L2 and seeing as same peeps running L2 are gonna be running L3 dont really fancy that much neither i think i will be heading to another game and company altogether get a fresh perspective in a fresh game where everyone has to start from scratch but i know from talking to clan members and other clans that when i go they wanna come with me already we have put out our scouts to scout out the game selections and so far we have found one game thats sparked interest not sure if they cencor new game names or not so wont bother putting its name in but its built around the same structure as L2 we have no real chance of getting rep points needed to lvl the clan or get the clan buffs as we are all legit players getting several hundred million adena for a guild hall is out of the window affording items is also out of the window raiding is out of the window due to not having the items to go after them in first place so yeah im fed up with game i didnt join this game or its community to just find out i cant do anything :(
...they need alternatives to grind like the festivals but thats be made into something of a non factor since the problems with that are mostly if you arent a nuker party you have no chance in winning.
If I may stray slightly off topic for a moment...
I've always thought the Festivals lost their luster because of the lack of a PVP element to them. Back when such things mattered, I found it odd that you'd compete against mobs in Dawn or Dusk festivals, rather than against a contingent of the opposing force of the same level ranges for an entire week, with the winner of the majority of the matches taking the seals.
Obviously none of this matters now, due to the way that just about everyone sides with Dawn these days, but that one had me scratching my head for the longest time. Where is the PVP?
Which is where I'm at... playing other games with better communities overall, better staff support, better balance, better gameplay.... just better games, occasionally returning to L2 for whatever it is that keeps drawing me back to L2.
I've been there too. I'm there still.
Most recently dabbled with City of Heroes/Villains and although it's not the same game, I have to say that L2 could benefit tremendously from learning what drives those communities.
For example, last month COH had a double XP weekend. If L2 were to do something similar once every 6 months, who then would complain about the grind?
And with COH it is extremely rare to go longer than 30 minutes without someone asking you to party or perform a mission with them. The opportunity to make new acquaintances and form liaisons for short term goals/quests would be a tremendous boon to L2. And for those who have never played COH, there are almost ALWAYS spur of the moment missions to perform, in addition to quests. Imagine if L2's quest adventurers were to provide similar short term quests, ad hoc, for any and all interested players.
Another feature of COH that would be welcome in L2 is the option of respecifying your skill sets at certain levels. What, you say the nerf stick negatively impacted one of your skills? No problem, just go respec and learn something else.
And finally, customization of your toon in COH is a feature that L2 desperately needs. L2 is the most visually aesthetic game that I've ever played, yet would it really have been so difficult to have given players more control over their toon's appearance? How long have we been clammoring for cloaks and undergarments? Well, COH has capes, wings, cloaks, helmets, auras, eyes that glow, multiple facial expressions and hairstyles, selectable physical builds, and a multitude of colors for everything from skin tone to the color of your boots.
And did I mention that toons can hover/fly (mages could use this), teleport (healers need this), turn invisible (tanks and daggers would LOVE this!)?
And don't get me started with the Veteran Rewards program, because it seems like most of us have been playing this game since OB (3+ years???) and it might unnerve some folks to know that at least in COH/COV your tenure is acknowledged and appreciated in the form of some in-game honor or gear that your toon can wear.
I'm not here to slam L2. I've quit too many times and returned too many times to deny that there is something phenomenal about this game. But here's to hoping that the voices of it's NA playerbase is taken to heart. This game rocks and we want it to thrive. But you have to give us more than we have in order to make this fellowship work...
Well, to be fair, L2 is an older game. Even though I've been playing 3+ years, the game probably started development several years prior.
I just don't know why everything is piecemeal. Why not just have an update that adds many armors, weapons, and customization options. Not to mention updating sieges, which was the main reason I came to the game.
And seriously, I am not thrilled about this whole new "dinosaur land". I would rather have had anything else.
And seriously, I am not thrilled about this whole new "dinosaur land". I would rather have had anything else.
/agree, death to barney island. there is nothing in the storyline that supports it, the theme doesnt match at all. devs should be thinking about titans, flying ships, underwater demons, ol mahums political structure, a flying race thats been in hiding for the last 2k years, the usefulness of pets, and making seiges more fun for everyone. dinasaurs are soooo far off the mark.
STEM....for me it all comes down to stem drops...crazy as it may sound one stem drop from a level 72 mob just irks me as it costs 1800 adena in ss to kill it and gain .01 in exp..I know this opens a whole new bag of beans but that is my only prob with game.
The fact is to compete in pvp on ERICA u need gear that is, for the most part, unreachable for the majority of the players...
For me it comes down to Stem...
STEM....for me it all comes down to stem drops...crazy as it may sound one stem drop from a level 72 mob just irks me as it costs 1800 adena in ss to kill it and gain .01 in exp..I know this opens a whole new bag of beans but that is my only prob with game.
The fact is to compete in pvp on ERICA u need gear that is, for the most part, unreachable for the majority of the players...
For me it comes down to Stem...
STEM....for me it all comes down to stem drops...crazy as it may sound one stem drop from a level 72 mob just irks me as it costs 1800 adena in ss to kill it and gain .01 in exp..I know this opens a whole new bag of beans but that is my only prob with game.
The fact is to compete in pvp on ERICA u need gear that is, for the most part, unreachable for the majority of the players...
For me it comes down to Stem...
And seriously, I am not thrilled about this whole new "dinosaur land". I would rather have had anything else.
/agree, death to barney island. there is nothing in the storyline that supports it, the theme doesnt match at all. devs should be thinking about titans, flying ships, underwater demons, ol mahums political structure, a flying race thats been in hiding for the last 2k years, the usefulness of pets, and making seiges more fun for everyone. dinasaurs are soooo far off the mark.
so, trippleposter. if you got three stem would that be better?
lol obviously :p
any way..to add a enw complaint...the penalty for dieing in PvP out side of a "safe zone" or designated PvP area....its rediclous!!! considering this is an open PvP game, why have such a steep penalty for it!! :confused: ive hinestly never really goten to big into PvP becasue of tis...now granted the xp is easier to get he lower lvl ya are...but more people want to PvP the higher lvl u r because of the bordum that the game creates...
Well, we leveled our clan through academy alts, raid bosses, and through a small war. Also, we have clan hall at fotd, which entails fighting for it every month from the npcs, but still... it's an A grade hall, and our clan leader gets wyvern :) So it can be done. It meant an allegiance with another ally about our size and levels, but that has worked out to everyone's advantage.
I would consider Lineage 2 to be dying. It's hay-day was the late C1, early and mid C2 era, when things were new and unique, and the starter zones weren't crammed with zombies. I started out in late C1, just before C2 came out. That was the best time gameplay wise I had in this game. In fact, I'd say that was the best time for me starting an MMO, ever. All of my starts on MMO's since then have been lackluster compared to those days. I guess it could be that L2 was my first MMO. I was totally new to the experience, I was young, being only 15, nearing 16, and oblivious as to what would come of this.
I saw ups and downs in the botter-gate in my time playing, the worst I'd say was mid-C3 when they figured out what a gold-mine the catacombs were. I tended to steer clear of the low and mid level ones simply because most rooms were filled to the brim with zombies. It was disheartening as a still relativly new player, seeing these new dungeons capable of bringing large parties together overrun by zombies, and yet still seeing the familiar world dungeons (Ant Nest is my first thought) die and fade into forgotten memories.
I am a social player. I play an MMO to see other, living, breathing, thinking human beings. I play these games because they open up ways of communication I fall short on in reality. Seeing this game die is hard, because it has, in all truthfulness, helped me cope with and battle depression and social anxeity. Hell, I even met my current girlfriend thanks to this game. Sadly, I can't help but to see that the instrument of destruction is played by our's, and the company's hands. Our's, because we exercised out ability to choose what we are to do with what is laid before us. We chose to bot, we chose to allow farmers to rake in cash and items. We practice those things daily, fueling the fire burning up this game. It is the company's, because they have allowed lackluster customer service, lackluster marketing, lackluster self-defense campaigns against the zombies. I know they care. This is, in my opinion, their flagship game. They would be inhuman to not give a **** about it. I just feel that it hasn't been enough.
I do believe that it is possible to throw some kindling on the Lineage 2 fire. I don't have a clue about how to go about doing that, but I can tell you that this is, and always will be, and different game than what most of us will be used to. This is a very personal game. I will always associate certain things with L2. I will always remember the people on this forum, the ones who have been absolutely crucial in keeping this community alive. I will always remember those times on Talking Island fighting over control of the library in the Elven Ruins was what made you go there in the first place. I will always remember my first party wipe in Ant Nest. I will always remember my first castle siege. I will always remember... the day I realized Lineage 2 was dying.
I love L2, most of us do. It can be a hardcore enviroment that pulls you in even if you want out.
But the game has issues, not least important is the zombies into every single part of the gameplay now.
Everyone says there is more players then zombies online at a given time. But as I run thru starter zones and even the higher level places. I don't really believe that anymore.
I started the game, it turns out, to my amazement, on the day that C3 came out. So the Prelude-C3 stories I hear sound like a lot of fun, tho many things were unknown and a lot of exploring had to happen to figure out the mysteries of the game.
For instance, I heard you had to run everywhere, no gatekeepers, no guides or instructions for the class change quests, and things like that. The stories of CT and TOI Angels bring joy to my older clannies voices. However, having experienced none of that, I have my wonderful stories of my experiences, too, like Apostate and DVC, and I tell those stories to the newer players that I meet too. My non-gamer friends love to hear my stories of experiences and the politics, and the details sometimes over whelm them... This is a highly complex game that involves every part of you, outside of the actual physical.
I guess my point is that the game has life to it, but there is a point where we get jaded and desensitized to what brought us in the first place. While the graphics of the game and the ever-expanding borders of the L2 world are interesting, it seems that the core of all of this, as Gildran mentions, is the camaraderie experienced during game play... and that is the thing that stands out, that is remembered. Maybe that is what gets lost in the details of the parts of the game that makes you frustrated and makes you feel the game is dying.
I agree with the poster, these changes would make the game alot better, i like lineage which is why i keep coming back, however when i come back i am disappointed and quit again, i recently came back because i tried to get my girlfriend to try it, she likes how the game looks, but found it rather boring, when got her to the racetrack and she finally saw some more players she took a little more interest in the game until i told her it would take months even years for her to group with my character, who isn't even really that high, only lvl 62, sadly i think i will quit once again and maybe show up again when interlude comes in the hope that i don't get disappointed again. now i know some of you may say well if you didn't quit you would be higher if you didn't and while that is true, i play games to relieve the stress i encounter in life, not to gain more, and with less and less of my online friends playing this game there is less and less keeping me everytime i return.
wait...what's stopping you from making a level1 to play the game With her?? rerolling is not the end of the world, especially if you do it to help someone else have fun.
Rerolling is a way to re-experience the game from the point of view of a different race or class. Its actually quite fun, you don't have to completely give up your other character, just put a hold on leveling it for awhile.
re-rolling can only get one so far...ive re-rolled my entire account and all the toons are 40+ accept my up and comeing healer...he is still 30..but the fact is that re-rolling is like a bandaide over a deep wound...it can only help for a short time before the same old problems occur..ive evn went as far as to start a toon on a different server or two...but this did nothing for me becasue i didnt ahve anyu of my already established friends and why bother to mak new ones if you know u r not staying there long? so yes, re-rolling is a good time....but it has its limits and will eventualy just bring one more greif then anything...soy because of the fact that on must gear up the toons and so on, its jus the same headache with 7 dif toons as apposed to one or two...and in the long run we shouldnt have to re-roll to make the game fun and interesting again...as far as i am concerned re-rolling is a cop out exuse for any one and that if one really thinks that it will make the "spark" come abck to the game permanently they are wrong :(
ive changed main servers two and two-half times (which doesnt quite equal three times). i have 27 characters. i havent really given up on any of them, i just pay more attention to others. i make new characters all the time just to meet the incoming new players and help them learn about the game. and the low level grind appeals to me more because there are no politics to deal with. but that's just me.
I'm happy that it give's you enjoyment. I have never really rerolled in the sence, but i do have 3 lvl 40ish alts and a 20 dwarf (was a nightmare getting her that high), am deleting 2 lvl 1 alts i made back in prelude but never came around to lvling, so maybe i might make a new character. however the fact is that when i played the alts it was purely a temp relaxation, when i play L2 i want to play my SK, so that means if she wants to play with me that she would have to be close to my level, and the amount of time it would take for her to legally get it would not be worth me playing the game to lvl up and there for level up an alt to that lvl
1-40 can be done much quicker these days, if your main has the cash to twink her and an alt for you. And depending on the class she takes, getting within 10 levels would be close enough, as the exponential exp needed to level will allow her to catch up eventually.
though 1-40 can be done fast at times,yes...lets look at what it takes...a higher lvl toon with a lot of adena to "twink" them...but then wheres the fun...you already have every thing so there is no need to haggle over prices or grind for item drops or do Rb's and pvp over the drop if it comes to that ^^ it just returns to the same old thing...
im not sure what class she likes to play becasue you havent stated it and/or she doesnt know. but you chould (just a suggestion) choose a toon that would compliment hers, get both of those to 40, then she should be high enough to party with your main, tough enough not to die from a single hit of stray aggro, and hopefully have some skills that might help your SK level a bit easier.